Why does Eliwood use swords?

[Magical Glace]

In FE6, Eliwood had a base Lance rank of S and a base Sword rank of A, if the site is correct. Why would he be like this when he preferred Swords in FE7? While it's possible for him to S rank Lances in FE7, it's very unlikely. Also, when Wolt asks Marcus to teach him Swordplay in their supports from FE6, Marcus refuses because he will have mediocre skill due to his age. Eliwood was about the same age as FE6!Wolt in FE7, if not older. Why would he suddenly switch knowing this?

Thinking about it, if Eliwood was a Lance-based lord, FE7 would have a lord for each portion of the weapon triangle, Eliwood using Lances, Hector using axes, and Lyn wielding swords.

Durandal can be considered, but he can't wield it in FE6, with that Sword rank. He can wield Maltet in FE6, why didn't he quest for that and Lyn get Durandal?

I'm so confused...

[gringe]

Would have been interesting now that you mention it, but I guess they just wanted to make him like Roy and the standard FE sword-wielding lord.

[Nicolas]

Bows more suits his chump personality.

[Rah]

Damn they should have made him use lances straight up.

[Parrhesia]

Bows more suits his chump personality.

Bows require physical strength - the ability of an archer with either long- or crossbow to kill knights indiscriminately from a distance was something that tore a hole in the myth of noble invulnerability to the common people that would never recover.

Eliwood doesn't deserve to use a bow.

[Integrity]

Bows more suits his chump personality.

yes the chump should have used a weapon that historically demands a massive barrel chest and arms

[bookofholsety]

the simple answer is that IS probably didn't care. his trial map stats aren't all that important as far as GRAND OVERARCHING CANON is concerned, and let's face it, swords sell. when intsys was still working on FE6 they probably weren't planning too far ahead with respect to the content of the next games, so when they settled on doing a prequel based around Eliwood, i'd imagine they were more concerned about:

• ensuring he looks as much like Roy as possible, given the entire point of FE7 was riding off Roy's SSBM fame. Roy uses swords, so Eliwood had to do the same
• the fact that swords are marketable. swords have been hyped up to hell and back in our society as THE weapon for anything resembling a swords and sorcery hero, they've got a definite clout and mystique around them, and so odds are they make for a more attractive product when splashed everywhere on the boxart and logo (hell, FE7 in general was the first time there was a lord character who didn't wield swords, and even then he was outnumbered by sword-wielding lords). Eliwood had to sell games, and he was front and centre on the box art, so he got swords

i would imagine that IS didn't exactly put much intricate planning into assembling Eliwood or Hector's trial map stats in FE6. my guess is that Eliwood got S lances there only because paladins in general arguably gravitate more toward lance use than sword use in pretty much anything that isn't FE4. as such, IS likely figured that ignoring trial map Eliwood entirely was safe enough to do in order to turn him into a more conventional FE lead character, since he was never that crucial or character-defining in the first place

as far as the story's concerned, Durandal had a priority over Maltet in one clear way: Eliwood's from Lycia and descended from Durandal's wielder, so if the game's story is meant to be all about Eliwood and the ALMIGHTY TRIALS that would shape his future, then it makes more sense (at least as far as sense applies to any of this) for him to take the weapon with the ancestral link. of course, had they taken an alternative route and just done the entire thing with Lyn as the primary protagonist around whom the story revolves, then you're right: she could've taken Durandal and Eliwood could've taken Maltet

of course then there's Ephraim, but like Hector he shares his game (and box art) with at least one other sword-wielding main character, so the principle of swords selling still dominates in FE8's case

[Nicolas]

yes the chump should have used a weapon that historically demands a massive barrel chest and arms

Neimi, Wolt, Wil, Rebecca, Rolf.

This chumps use BOWS!

[phobia]

Neimi, Wolt, Wil, Rebecca, Rolf.

This chumps use BOWS!

implying any of them are bad units

[Flaming Kirlia]

Durandal can be considered, but he can't wield it in FE6, with that Sword rank. He can wield Maltet in FE6, why didn't he quest for that and Lyn get Durandal?

I'm so confused...

Actually I believe he can, since in FE6 you can have mutiple S ranks, but yeah, I agree, Eliwood should use Lances, but that would also made Epharim less cool

[bookofholsety]

Actually I believe he can, since in FE6 you can have mutiple S ranks, but yeah, I agree, Eliwood should use Lances, but that would also made Epharim less cool

gaining experience or weapon experience in trial map mode is impossible, so Eliwood is incapable of gaining S in swords in FE6

[ZemZem]

Neimi, Wolt, Wil, Rebecca, Rolf.

This chumps use BOWS!

implying any of them are bad units

archer bias aside those five units are underwhelming

doesn't stop me from using them though because <3 bows

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Eliwood is actually a pretty cool guy, and he manage to become the greatest Knight of Elibe. Give him some credits

His stats is the only part about him that screams "chumps". Sadly stats are what matters in term of gameplay so.... lel

[phobia]

His growths aren't even /that/ bad (esp in hector mode cause he can promote earlier) he just comes out bad most of the time

Edited February 8, 2014 by phobia

[ZemZem]

Eliwood's problem is that his mediocre growths (45% STR, 40% SPD) are backed up by subpar bases (5 STR isn't very nice.).

Also he's sword-locked until he promotes, and that doesn't help him out. ;/

[Nicolas]

Eliwood is actually a pretty cool guy, and he manage to become the greatest Knight of Elibe. Give him some credits.

He act like little boy what is similar to Leif, but Leif actually grow up and get some things about life. Eliwood never grow up.

His growths aren't even /that/ bad (esp in hector mode cause he can promote earlier) he just comes out bad most of the time

I'm looking at his average stats. At 20 lvl he his stats are sightly better than Lowen's (in str and skl; in str no one cares, because Lowen can just grab steel lance and no one cares about skl), while Lowen has more movement at much earlier promo.

He is just bad unit. EOT

Edited February 8, 2014 by Nicolas

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Eliwood stats is hilarious

His base is all shit except for luck, and his growth is low in every area except for Luck.

And for a Sword wielding Lord, his speed growth is comparable to Hector. I don't know if this is because of Hector's speed growth being above average, or his speed growth is that pathetic

Edited February 8, 2014 by JSND

[ZemZem]

A lot of units in FE7 have SPD growths in the 30s% or 40%s. XP

[King Calamity]

I always figured the classic rapier-wielding lord suited Eliwood perfectly. He's an ideal noble who doesn't like fighting, so he uses a fine weapon exclusive to nobles. But this actually got me thinking a bit: Eliwood's stats are kind of like a pegasus knight, with good resistance, luck, and skill. So he could have been given a lance, and been sort of like a male pegasus knight (no pegasus though, since they come from Ilia). He wouldn't fight like Ephraim, since they're pretty different characters, but maybe he could start off with a horse and be the only lord who's mounted before promotion.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

He act like little boy what is similar to Leif, but Leif actually grow up and get some things about life. Eliwood never grow up.

BULLSHIT

There is literally nothing about Leaf that suggests that he actually grows up

"Dorias:

"Prince! Stop acting like a child! Our troops are exhausted. Many of them have pushed themselves to impossible limits, with only the hope of liberating Lenster keeping them going. Look, Lord Leaf, they are all fast asleep from fatigue. But if you depart now, they will force themselves to accompany you. Do you want to put them through such harsh measures?""

He didn;t learn anything, to the point that dumbass like Dorias know how terrible his decision is. Considering that in other situation Dorias is the source of everything that is wrong about FE5, that says a lot about Leaf's being a grown up.

What about a long time after this?

We have this particular sentence from FE4

"Fin:

Your Highness, we have a responsibility to keep this region safe.

So buckle down. Things are bound to get rough.

Leaf:

You think I don't know that? I've been praying for this day to come, you know...

My father's dying wish was to return peace to the Thracian Peninsula.

And I'll do whatever is necessary to end King Blume's reign. Even if it takes my life...

Fin:

...Your Highness! What a careless thing to say!

Anyone who's in position to become king must stay alive for the people at any cost!

Leaf:

You're right... Sorry. I know you went through a lot to keep the empire from finding me.

You often went without food while we were in hiding, but you never once let me go without...

I finally realise all the sacrifices you had to make for me, Fin. Thank you so much.

Fin:

Your father's life-long dream was to see the war torn Thracia Peninsula united.

You must keep his dream alive, for you are the only one who can pull it off now."

"

This is Leif POST CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. He's an angry dude who is so angry his adoptive father(trademark) need to remind him that he is too reckless. This is what you call growing up?

"Leaf:

"Yes, you did. We grew up like brother and sister, but you were always the one helping me. I was able to come this far because you were always there for me, to support me and cheer me up. Nanna, once this war ends, I'll go look for Lachesis as well. And when I find her, I'm going to ask her directly...for your hand, Nanna...""

Normally, this is like.... a romantic scene

It also combines incest(well, kind of. Papa Finn might be happy to hear that his adopted son married his daughter, to the point that he celebrate it by ragequitting to the desert. jk) and the fact that Leaf is a dirty liar.

That or indecisive. Just look at roughly 40 words ago

"There's just too much on my mind to be thinking about whether I love someone or not..."

Either way, I prefer the former because in my headcanon, Leaf is actually a total jackass.

On the contrary, Eliwood never actually acts immature, so why the hell did he need to grow up anyway? What, crying when his dad is dead, and he killed someone who is innocent is immature now?

He's the one who always stopped Lyn and Hector from killing each other. If theres anyone who is immature in FE7, its Hector

Edited February 8, 2014 by JSND

[X-Naut]

Eliwood stats is hilarious

His base is all shit except for luck, and his growth is low in every area except for Luck.

And for a Sword wielding Lord, his speed growth is comparable to Hector. I don't know if this is because of Hector's speed growth being above average, or his speed growth is that pathetic

"Average" is more appropriate than bad, and his Luck growth is actually on par with his Strength. You're right about his bases, although there are worse and part of the problem is swords getting the short end of the stick along with bows. And Hector's one of the slower Lords, it's just that the enemy growth curve is terrible and the fastest enemy types are rare.

On topic, they probably gave Eliwood swords because of tradition and to make him more relatable to Roy. Interesting to note is that he was originally going to be a Cavalier.

[ZemZem]

He's the one who always stopped Lyn and Hector from killing each other. If theres anyone who is immature in FE7, its Hector

This.

And even then, Hector 'grows up' near the end of the game regarding news of Uther's death, so...

[BrightBow]

BULLSHIT

There is literally nothing about Leaf that suggests that he actually grows up

The two scenes you are comparing aren't too far away chronologically. Both happened during Leaf's time in Lenster before moving against Manster.

Plus, character development doesn't turn you into an entirely different person. Especially if it's about emotions. You can't just decide not to get angry.

When Leaf became easily angry and irresponsible before Doria's death, he would still act like this afterwards. Especially now that he feels the guilt about all the people that died because of him and the stress of being under siege for many months.

What could change is that Leaf would easily recognize this behavior and catch himself. Back in the day, he insisted that his knights would aid Alster against the opinion of his advisors. The result was Dorias' death.

When this scene in FE4 happens, Leaf is quick to realize that Finn is right. So he seems to have developed. At least there is no contradiction. And that is all that is needed.

Because FE4 and FE5 are two entirely different stories and Leaf is only the hero of the latter. Leaf, being just one of many characters in FE4, doesn't have the opportunity to receive this degree of development he got in FE5. Should Leaf suddenly completely change between chapter 7 and 8 because of events the player didn't see and the writers didn't knew about yet?

I don't get the accusations against Eliwood either, though.

His accusations the queen of Bern were completely unreasonable and silly. Not just because he wasted their opportunity to find the shrine but more importantly doesn't know her.

He doesn't know a damn thing about the queen's motivations or her feelings for her son. So his accusations came completely out of nowhere.

But that was more awfully written scene then anything. Usually he is fairly mature.

Edited February 8, 2014 by BrightBow

[Tamanoir]

"Average" is more appropriate than bad, and his Luck growth is actually on par with his Strength. You're right about his bases, although there are worse and part of the problem is swords getting the short end of the stick along with bows. And Hector's one of the slower Lords, it's just that the enemy growth curve is terrible and the fastest enemy types are rare.

On topic, they probably gave Eliwood swords because of tradition and to make him more relatable to Roy. Interesting to note is that he was originally going to be a Cavalier.

Being Sword-Locked is really its main problem. He has the exact same problem as Cannas (Bases are slightly worse, but growths are better and he have earlier join time).

As a Cavalier, he'd have easily be the best lord.

What's interresting is that the Rapier is a thrust weapons like Lances. It's a Sword he uses like a Lance.

The two scenes you are comparing aren't too far away chronologically. Both happened during Leaf's time in Lenster before moving against Manster.

Plus, character development doesn't turn you into an entirely different person. Especially if it's about emotions. You can't just decide not to get angry.

When Leaf became easily angry and irresponsible before Doria's death, he would still act like this afterwards. Especially now that he feels the guilt about all the people that died because of him and the stress of being under siege for many months.

What could change is that Leaf would easily recognize this behavior and catch himself. Back in the day, he insisted that his knights would aid Alster against the opinion of his advisors. The result was Dorias' death.

When this scene in FE4 happens, Leaf is quick to realize that Finn is right. So he seems to have developed. At least there is no contradiction. And that is all that is needed.

Because FE4 and FE5 are two entirely different stories and Leaf is only the hero of the latter. Leaf, being just one of many characters in FE4, doesn't have the opportunity to receive this degree of development he got in FE5. Should Leaf suddenly completely change between chapter 7 and 8 because of events the player didn't see and the writers didn't knew about yet?

Exactly, comparing FE4 and FE5 is unfair in term of Leif's developpement.

[Magical Glace]

I just thought of another thing that's less important but still seems somewhat logical.

Swords tend to be light, weak, and accurate, matching Lyn's speed and skill based build.

Axes tend to be heavy, inaccurate, and strong, matching Hector's Strength and Defense based build.

Lances tend to be middle of the road, matching Eliwood's Jack of all Stats type build.

That just makes me want him to use lances even more.