HusabandoIke Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I want to try having a gay marriage wish Zero, but i dont want to lose out on two child characters. Ive seen various information about the subject, some saying it only mentions adoption at the epilouge, some saying both Kanna and Zeros kid are made available. Does anyone have some solid proof one way or the other? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gayserbeam Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I can confirm that marrying Shara or Zero will never produce children. However, the paired ending with Zero and Mamui mentions they adopt kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Gabriel Knight Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/%C3%89ponine The wiki says Eponine is Zero's child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirokan Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/%C3%89ponine The wiki says Eponine is Zero's child. Indeed, only when he is with a female partner, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camilla Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I honestly think that it would be kind of silly if you could adopt the children who were supposed to be your biological children if you chose to do a gay pairing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sias Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I honestly think that it would be kind of silly if you could adopt the children who were supposed to be your biological children if you chose to do a gay pairing... Well, as far as I know part of this misunderstanding stems from the fact that the Kamui/Zero epilogue mentions them pretty much adopting those children. I've never read it personally, but I have heard multiple people before say that the description could be fitting, so I don't know? However, I think if they're going to do gay marriage again, they should actually add the characters' normal children through adoption. Because honestly, if you leave them completely out (like in Fates), you have the problem that someone doing these specific pairings can never recruit certain characters, which is dumb. And if you just gave the pairing some additional new replacement characters that only appear as adopted kids, I guarantee you that there would be heavy problems as well. On the one side, you'd have the people who really really like X and want to use him/her, but he/she is only obtainable by doing a gay pairing, ewww... And on the other side, there are those ones who want to waifu/husbando Y and can't, because he/she is just in the game when you start a relationship with the MU as his/her father/mother. So yeah, if they're going to do homosexual pairings again, please just slap the respective children on top of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landmaster Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 While I personally feel it does make perfect sense that the children aren't obtained when doing the gay pairings, I think a better solution would just be to do the replacement child thing and just give them placeholder children as adopted kid(s). Reason being because the children canonically have a determinant parent. By having the gay couples adopt the same kids they could/would potentially parent, neither of them have a determinant parent, which contradicts the fact that they have a canonical father (mother in Male Kanna's case). You lose a lot when the kids are no longer biological, but with a replacement child, there wouldn't be a problem, imo~ Honestly, leaving the kids out if you choose to go the route of the gay pairings is no dumber than potentially missing out of Cynthia in Awakening due to Sumia's ridiculously specific list of potential husbands (which did happen to me the first time I played, along with Maiden!Lucina). It just all depends on what you choose to go with (or are ignorant to, in my case). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaplan Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Maybe M!Kamui could have slipped something in Zero's drink to magically make him pregnant.But that would be ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camilla Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Well, as far as I know part of this misunderstanding stems from the fact that the Kamui/Zero epilogue mentions them pretty much adopting those children. I've never read it personally, but I have heard multiple people before say that the description could be fitting, so I don't know? However, I think if they're going to do gay marriage again, they should actually add the characters' normal children through adoption. Because honestly, if you leave them completely out (like in Fates), you have the problem that someone doing these specific pairings can never recruit certain characters, which is dumb. And if you just gave the pairing some additional new replacement characters that only appear as adopted kids, I guarantee you that there would be heavy problems as well. On the one side, you'd have the people who really really like X and want to use him/her, but he/she is only obtainable by doing a gay pairing, ewww... And on the other side, there are those ones who want to waifu/husbando Y and can't, because he/she is just in the game when you start a relationship with the MU as his/her father/mother. So yeah, if they're going to do homosexual pairings again, please just slap the respective children on top of that. Then they shouldn't do gay pairings in games with children unless they have different children available for the herterosexual and homosexual pairings. The character's biological children magically becoming their adoptive children when paired up in a homosexual relationship is just way too unrealistic. It would be complete nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iridium Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I honestly think that it would be kind of silly if you could adopt the children who were supposed to be your biological children if you chose to do a gay pairing... Why, exactly? It doesn't make sense to have the same children for every pairing a character can make, but we've already broken that rule for everything except hair color. Hell, it doesn't make sense for the children to end up the same way even with the same pairing. And even if somehow it did, there's no reason they can't just have Eponine be adopted for all pairings. Not only would that be completely gender-neutral, and not only would it not necessarily need to change anything (except hair color inheritance, which would probably be for the best), but it would still make more sense than "adopted babies from the future trapped in a time hole." I'm completely fine with missing out on Kanna, given the circumstances, but it's silly that I can't have Eponine when her entire gimmick is being obsessed with male romance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sias Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 While I personally feel it does make perfect sense that the children aren't obtained when doing the gay pairings, I think a better solution would just be to do the replacement child thing and just give them placeholder children as adopted kid(s). Reason being because the children canonically have a determinant parent. By having the gay couples adopt the same kids they could/would potentially parent, neither of them have a determinant parent, which contradicts the fact that they have a canonical father (mother in Male Kanna's case). You lose a lot when the kids are no longer biological, but with a replacement child, there wouldn't be a problem, imo~ Honestly, leaving the kids out if you choose to go the route of the gay pairings is no dumber than potentially missing out of Cynthia in Awakening due to Sumia's ridiculously specific list of potential husbands (which did happen to me the first time I played, along with Maiden!Lucina). It just all depends on what you choose to go with (or are ignorant to, in my case). I'm... not really getting behind all of your argumentation here. If the biological and the adopted children would be the same, that would be just as true for their determining parent, as long as you don't change the mechanic at some point. Same parent, same corresponding child, regardless of hetero or homo. What does change here so that "neither of them" has a canonical parent anyomore, when the one child that you get as soon as the father/mother marries is still completely the same? And why exactly would you "lose a lot"? And no, the problems of missing Cynthia and Maiden!Lucy are something entirely different. In case of Maiden!Lucy you still get the child, you just lose a potential S-sup-bonus for Chrom and some classes/caps for Lucina. For Cynthia, while admittedly you can miss out on an entire character, that's just because you didn't marry her mother to someone (because she has a very limited partner selection and you apparently didn't bother to check out her options before/liked other pairings more). If Cynthia would have only been existing in a relationship of Sumia with MU/Chrom/Gaius, but not for Henry/Frederick because of whatever reason, then we would have the same scenario. Then they shouldn't do gay pairings in games with children unless they have different children available for the herterosexual and homosexual pairings. The character's biological children magically becoming their adoptive children when paired up in a homosexual relationship is just way too unrealistic. It would be complete nonsense. But the biological children wouldn't become the adoptive ones, the kids would always be exactly the same persons regardless of case. They'd just have a slightly different relationship towards their parents - and I don't see any problem with that. Along with this, their behaviour/abilities/personality/whatever could also be pretty much entirely alike, because the people raising them don't change (well, at least the corresponding parent doesn#t, and the other one is irrelevant anyways besides passing down caps/classes/hair colour). If you think about it, almost all of the second gen characters we had so far in Awakening/Fates could've just been adopted as well. There are exceptions of course, like Lucina and Owain because of bloodline, and things would also be harder to explain for the shapeshifters, but in general... It would've been perfectly possible. Especially so when we can throw small kiddos into parallel dimensions where time passes by at a faster rate anyways. Regarding the possible completely new replacement children, I explained in my last post already why I think that they'd be more trouble than worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S_Cero Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I think the solution to this is to just not have child characters anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunsurge Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Then they shouldn't do gay pairings in games with children unless they have different children available for the herterosexual and homosexual pairings. The character's biological children magically becoming their adoptive children when paired up in a homosexual relationship is just way too unrealistic. It would be complete nonsense. It's a game with magic. Children grow up in a separate dimension where time passes faster. Please don't talk about what's unrealistic. -_- Also, if you're so concerned about biology, they could easily just say it was surrogate children. Which is less unrealistic, and would add in the biological portion. If they do children/gay pairings again, they shouldn't make it where they can't have children. It's ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitoRequiem Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) I think the solution to this is to just not have child characters anymore. This, I'm actually surprised they brought them back, Will Gen 2 become a staple? Cause that's not something I'm too happy about cause story wise it's a bit stupid I dunno. How do children work in this game? FE4 I apparently can't get the spoiler thingy to work out correctly so I guess I won't post it but I think FE4's Gen 2 was done very well but I don't wanna see that type of thing happen again FE: Awakening [spoiler={option}] Time travel and alternate dimensions whoooooo!!!! I guess it was okay cause how Awakening worked but I still thought Gen 2 was done pretty shitty and I hope they never do anything like that again lol If they wanna do a Gen 2 why not just have Generation 1 in one game and if a sequel could work out very well do Gen 2 in that one I dunno. What bugged me the most about children characters in general is I felt like they just stole the spotlight from their parents, but I'm just rambling sorry :> Edited July 2, 2015 by MitoRequiem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abysswalker25 Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Maybe for Zero's kid but uh, what are the odds of you finding a child that can turn into a dragon to adopt? At least, I assume that ability gets passed down to the Avatar's kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gayserbeam Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Maybe M!Kamui could have slipped something in Zero's drink to magically make him pregnant. But that would be ridiculous. Kaplan: 1 IS: 0 Honestly though, adopting kids who look the same as your potential biological kids isn't much more absurd than every kid looking exactly the same regardless of who their mother is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireMblum Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Wait, is Eponine always an 'adopted' child? Even when Zero's paired with a female? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gayserbeam Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Wait, is Eponine always an 'adopted' child? Even when Zero's paired with a female? She's biological when he marries a woman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4Dam PKMN Master Nappa Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 I think the solution to this is to just not have child characters anymore. Shots fired! Why can't Eponine just always be adopted? Problem solved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raid00m Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Meh, this really bummed me out, was planning to marry Zero as a male in my main file.. I was fine with missing out on Kanna, as it made sense to me, there aren't just children with dragon blood lying around, free for adoption. However I was expecting to be able to adopt Éponine in the Storyline to get her as a unit. And I dont't really wanna miss out on two children in my main file :/ Oh well, guess I have to play a female again, then -_- I hope IS fixes this in the next game or maybe even release an additional dlc or patch or whatever, when there is enough uproar about it... time to tell tumblr! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camilla Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 It's a game with magic. Children grow up in a separate dimension where time passes faster. Please don't talk about what's unrealistic. -_- Also, if you're so concerned about biology, they could easily just say it was surrogate children. Which is less unrealistic, and would add in the biological portion. If they do children/gay pairings again, they shouldn't make it where they can't have children. It's ridiculous. Time travel, different dimensions and reincarnation all still seem more realistic than a homosexual pairing having the child that was supposed to be their biological child in a heterosexual pairing. Actually saying that the child was a surrogate child in supports would work, or they could just have a different child prepared for the homosexual pairings as I said before. If you think about it, almost all of the second gen characters we had so far in Awakening/Fates could've just been adopted as well. There are exceptions of course, like Lucina and Owain because of bloodline, and things would also be harder to explain for the shapeshifters, but in general... It would've been perfectly possible. Especially so when we can throw small kiddos into parallel dimensions where time passes by at a faster rate anyways. Regarding the possible completely new replacement children, I explained in my last post already why I think that they'd be more trouble than worth. I think that is kind of grasping at straws there... That's a problem that can easily be fixed. They can just make the two children similar to each other so that there wouldn't be two completely different characters for people to pick from. They could have the same class, similar personalities with each child having one of their own unique traits added on, similar designs with different coloring and similar hair with either a different hair style or hair color. That way the only possible things people could complain about is liking the color scheme of one child option more than the other, which seems pretty miniscule of a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 (edited) It literally makes no logical sense whatsoever to say that gays should be adopt their own biological children. It is accepted by logicians that a child necessarily has the same parents in every possible world: Saul Kripke has argued that every person necessarily has the parents they do have: anyone with different parents would not be the same person It's a game with magic. Children grow up in a separate dimension where time passes faster. Please don't talk about what's unrealistic. -_- It's a game with magic, but that doesn't make the game illogical. Magic is not a violation of the laws of logic. It would literally be a violation of the laws of logic for, say, Camilla to have been born to different parents. You don't see violations of the laws of logic in Fire Emblem Fates, do you? Do you see square circles and other kinds of logical contradictions in FE14? No. Edited July 3, 2015 by Chiki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmalachi Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Time travel, different dimensions and reincarnation all still seem more realistic than a homosexual pairing having the child that was supposed to be their biological child in a heterosexual pairing. ... really? I mean, this is a kid that somehow exists no matter who their mother is, created in a world full of magic, and you still think that time travel, alternate dimensions and reincarnation make more sense than just letting the gay couple have the same kid they would if they paired up with literally anyone else? Hell, we don't even have magic and we aren't far from figuring out homosexual reproduction in the real world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camilla Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 ... really? I mean, this is a kid that somehow exists no matter who their mother is, created in a world full of magic, and you still think that time travel, alternate dimensions and reincarnation make more sense than just letting the gay couple have the same kid they would if they paired up with literally anyone else? Hell, we don't even have magic and we aren't far from figuring out homosexual reproduction in the real world. Yes, I do. Magic does make more logical sense than a character's biological child magically becoming an adoptive child for the sake of a pairing. While the children system in Fire Emblem isn't perfect (the child being the same except for hair color and stats no matter who the mother is), the father is still always at least their biological father. There is at least some kind of balance to make it passable that the same child always appears for them. But if that same child were to exist when the father wasn't the biological father anymore, then the children system would make absolutely no sense at all anymore. Considering I'm arguing against biological children magically becoming adoptive children, the bolded doesn't really mean anything. I have already said in that same post that you quoted that surrogate children would be acceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 ... really? I mean, this is a kid that somehow exists no matter who their mother is, created in a world full of magic, and you still think that time travel, alternate dimensions and reincarnation make more sense than just letting the gay couple have the same kid they would if they paired up with literally anyone else? Hell, we don't even have magic and we aren't far from figuring out homosexual reproduction in the real world. Actually, depending on your definition of magic, there's literally no such thing as magic. By definition, magic means something like making the impossible possible. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/magic If you take this definition, suppose someone does magic. They made the impossible possible. That makes no sense whatsoever though, since to have done something impossible, means that it was possible in the first place. So the definition of magic is flat out contradictory. By magic in Fire Emblem, that by definition probably means something like "the ability to shoot fire and thunder and whatever by chanting the texts in the books." And that's not logically contradictory at all. There could be a world such that the laws of nature allows one to shoot fire and thunder out of books. That makes much more sense than allowing gays to adopt their biological children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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