Solkia Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 lol do you know how to argue without abusing hyperbole? genuine question here A ton of stuff in this post is loaded or exaggerated. I'm also seeing a ton of "I dislike it so it's bad" which tends to be false. You seem utterly stuck to the older games and disapproving of change. As different as Persona? lol. Persona started as a spinoff, this game is the natural evolution of FE. I adore it. I love My Castle. I love skinshipping. Modern characters are so much better than the old cardboard from FE1/FE6. As you can see, Birthright is my favorite game in the series. Maybe you should stick with the older games and let people who like this stuff enjoy it. Soleil was the worst part of the game, and she's almost fixed. Fates is almost perfect. and you use a Shulk avatar how could you tarnish his name is hyperbole any worse than ad hominems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimeanRoyalKnight Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 lol do you know how to argue without abusing hyperbole? genuine question here A ton of stuff in this post is loaded or exaggerated. I'm also seeing a ton of "I dislike it so it's bad" which tends to be false. You seem utterly stuck to the older games and disapproving of change. As different as Persona? lol. Persona started as a spinoff, this game is the natural evolution of FE. I adore it. I love My Castle. I love skinshipping. Modern characters are so much better than the old cardboard from FE1/FE6. As you can see, Birthright is my favorite game in the series. Maybe you should stick with the older games and let people who like this stuff enjoy it. Soleil was the worst part of the game, and she's almost fixed. Fates is almost perfect. and you use a Shulk avatar how could you tarnish his name That was a joke but it was uncalled for :/// Oh yeah and nice rebuttal, he basically explained in detail why he disliked it and why he thinks it should be a separate series, and you said "You are wrong, I like it it's good, it's perfect, awawawa". Also, he is not stopping anyone who likes Fates, he did not call out on any fan, he is not going to GameStop and stab fans of Fates. He is just expressing his opinion with care and love, and this is how you counter his argument? Learn how to read and stop embarassing Xenoblade fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skynstein Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) I would never argue any of these things. Well, other then your definition of the term "fanservice". As far as I am concerned, the only notable instances of fanservice in Awakening are Priam and Tiki. Tharja in translucent clothing isn't fanservice? That's news to me. (actually most of the DLC is fanservice because of all the DLC characters from past FEs) It does disturb me, though. Not because of the stupid outfits or anything but because of the mass burnings, rape among other things. Butmost importantly: the complete lack of any self-awareness when these things pop up. Awakening's setting and characters are about as messed up as the ones in the likes of No More Heroes' or South Park. Yet, unlike those kind of franchises, Awakening tries to present itself as if it was basically My little Pony. It's the most disturbing piece of media that I've ever consumed and it scares me to think that Fates might actually be worse about that. Look, to understand you on this matter, I'd need to know more about you. But, considering even today there are people justifying the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki as "evil but necessary actions to stop a greater evil", it doesn't surprise me that fictional characters in a life and death situation outnumbered 3 to 1 would rejoice after winning a major battle against their enemies. I didn't think much of it and I'm honestly surprised at how it bothers people. Furthermore, the game makes it pretty clear to me that Grima genociding his own followers to power himself up is a very evil action, and we never kill any Plegian nor Valmese civilians in the game, everyone is a soldier to whom death is par for the course. What are you saying here? That the messed up stuff that I mentioned is somehow less messed up because there is other messed up stuff? Because I have no intention to defend Ricken in any way. Nice. That's great. Personally I find it difficult to care about the characters when the game treats them as if they were mere pets and not actual human beings with their own motivations and goals. But hey, I'm glad if others can still have fun. They're not pets, they're pieces on a gaming board, which is a bit similar. :P Cordelia can't avoid marrying my Avatar unless I want otherwise. :D Edited January 21, 2016 by Cerberus87 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solrocknroll Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 That was a joke but it was uncalled for :/// Oh yeah and nice rebuttal, he basically explained in detail why he disliked it and why he thinks it should be a separate series, and you said "You are wrong, I like it it's good, it's perfect, awawawa". Also, he is not stopping anyone who likes Fates, he did not call out on any fan, he is not going to GameStop and stab fans of Fates. He is just expressing his opinion with care and love, and this is how you counter his argument? Learn how to read and stop embarassing Xenoblade fans. His argument basically boiled down to "I don't like this and it's too different." I didn't really explain myself, but I find that saying that Fates is contrary to what Fire Emblem is as should be a spinoff ignores FE11 and 12, which I find happens a lot. A ton of stuff people complain about like reclassing and basic characters can be boiled back to them. Casual Mode, MU, Reclassing, it's all there. RD was in 2007 iirc. New Mystery was much closer. It's very obvious that changes are indeed occurring. Even then, My Castle is literally Gaiden's towns with even more stuff to do. There are arenas, which I thought people missed? They aren't the same, but 4 also had a completely different arena than the rest. The rest of his post was his opinion, and I've seen similar opinions endlessly. Ironically, he mentions Persona. The exact same thing happens with Persona 1 and 2 fans who hate the popular, slightly more fanservicey but overall improved successor. I still enjoy older games like Mystery of the Emblem or Binding Blade, but I silently laugh when I see people praising Innocent Sin or Eternal Punishment. I mean, c'mon. Regular SMT is already grimdark, let us have a slightly cheerier game. That's why I adore #FE when other hate it because it's not dark or like the home series, but I digress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irysa Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) I don't quite think the situation is as arbitrary or straightforward as that; if it was completely true that all the characters in NuFE were made for gag/pandering, then why do people sympathize with Cordelia over her PTSD? Or obsess over tiny nuances in Leon's character? While your statement may be generally true overall, there's definitely exceptions; things aren't as clear cut as that. I'd make the argument that the games disservice their own characters due to over-stressing their "gimmicks". Her male avatar support is the big one; pretty much everything else, however, adds to my argument of the game "disservicing it's own characters" (which I believe I've expressed to you before). An unfortunate consequence of fanservice DLC and making everybody able to support everybody of the opposite sex. People are collectively delusional about the reasons they do or enjoy many things, or just broadly misinformed. I mean, even in the Idol example I gave earlier, there are gay people in the West who see it as geninue and valuable. That doesn't make that the case though. Arguing that the basis of FE13/14's character conceptions are fine but the game destroys them doesn't hold any weight with me when the I can't see a good reason for as to why to change that approach if it wasn't to garner more appeal, in no small part due to the emphasis on the marriage system, whether that be from the self insert or between other characters. And the stupid groping minigame, as well as the faux-incest that doesn't delve into any of the problems, or crap like Mr Sexually Deviant Abused As A Kid Zero. If the conception was fine, why are they fine with whoring out their cast? The cast was made to be whored out, it's not some unfortunate byproduct. This isn't Fire Emblem anymore, They're just pandering to [insert group here] You should feel bad for liking this game" Wasn't my point. I actually don't have a problem per se with the fact these games exist, nor do I think people should feel bad for enjoying them. I'm just critical of people's inability to recognise indulgence for indulgence and try to project more meaning onto it permissively when it suits them, then get in a huge fuss about when it doesn't suit them, ie this situation. (that being said, it's pretty understandable for minorities to latch onto what little they have) That being said, it does seem sustainable that the disatisfaction of some vets is in part due to the fact that the subset for games LIKE older Fire Emblem titles is pretty small, so getting mad about things they valued as nearly exclusive outlets changing seems fine as long as they don't channel that disatisfaction in the way you outlined. They're not pets, they're pieces on a gaming board, which is a bit similar. :P Cordelia can't avoid marrying my Avatar unless I want otherwise. :D Yeah thats why you can amie it up with them right. Just like Nintendogs or Pokemon. :^) Edited January 21, 2016 by Irysa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Karnage Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) speaking about controversy how come nobody got upset about this line https://youtu.be/y6xy7wrSpbo?t=2m48s Edited January 22, 2016 by Captain Karnage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maybe Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) speaking about controversy how come nobody got upset about this line https://youtu.be/y6xy7wrSpbo?t=2m48s i have seen people mention that line before people probably didn't get upset about it because probably like 5 people got the support in the first place also it's in a game where barely anyone cares about the supports because they're b a d Edited January 21, 2016 by maybe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) Wow, this thread really blew up while I was asleep. Also, no matter how fanservice-y some characters may be (or may portray a complete lack of depth) there is always someone who will "connect" with them on some level beyond fanservice. Yeah, I don't deny that the majority of people who like characters like Tharja and Camilla are in it for the fanservice aspect. But if someone actually finds a deeper aspect of that character that they just relate to, well, I'm not going to begrudge them. Fun fact: when I heard that Kozaki designed Takumi (and Leon) to be fangirl bait I was pretty upset because I was like, "Oh great, did I walk right into that one?" But I gave it some thought and I remembered that I didn't really care about Takumi until I tried to see things from his POV, so I guess it's his personality and the deeper parts of it that still keep me interested in him. That said, I think the "problem" with Fates and Awakening characters is that because the games were made with an avatar and a marriage system, a lot of the traits that the characters have seem overly forced (made even more so because of large amounts of support lines), so they start to feel like a gimmick than a real person. And when the majority of the cast feels like a gimmick, it can be hard to give a fuck about anyone. IS, just fucking hire me to write the supports, 'kay? EDIT: Also, Freyjadour, we talked about this. Do we need another "talk"? Edited January 21, 2016 by Sunwoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solkia Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 speaking about controversy how come nobody got upset about this line https://youtu.be/y6xy7wrSpbo?t=2m48s Because barely anyone played FE12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 "Trust no o-" Don't trust this commercial, more like! I really hate this one, it's one of the worst commercials to a video game ever. What do you mean? This is the best game commercials I've ever seen. Though I can see why it didn't really push sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) Because barely anyone played FE12 sadly What do you mean? This is the best game commercials I've ever seen. Though I can see why it didn't really push sales. i bought the game because of the nintendo power advertisement, as well as the websites where you could watch afew seconds of gameplay. not gunna lie, when 10 year old me saw Pent doing a critical hit, that sold me on the game right then and there. Edited January 21, 2016 by HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolvir Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 So this blew up pretty fast. Under the impression that I may be the only one looking forward to Feb 19. Look, yes there is a ton of fanservice, but look around and tell me something that doesn't have it anymore. And I am willing to bet the beloved older fire emblems had it too. To be honest the stories in the previous games were just as bad. Fire Emblem has NEVER been about its fantastic writing, it's always been gameplay. So please everyone, have a Coke and smile, Relax, Chilax, or whatever you do. Enjoy this game for what it is and ignore the dumb shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maybe Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) So this blew up pretty fast. Under the impression that I may be the only one looking forward to Feb 19. Look, yes there is a ton of fanservice, but look around and tell me something that doesn't have it anymore. And I am willing to bet the beloved older fire emblems had it too. To be honest the stories in the previous games were just as bad. Fire Emblem has NEVER been about its fantastic writing, it's always been gameplay. So please everyone, have a Coke and smile, Relax, Chilax, or whatever you do. Enjoy this game for what it is and ignore the dumb shit. okay look using "old thing was shit" to justify "new thing is shit" is dumb shouldn't we expect things to improve over time instead of get worse besides most of what people talked about was not story nor was most of it about fanservice did you even read what people said or just have a stock response ready for whenever people complain about this game Edited January 22, 2016 by maybe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Wright Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 good thing they changed it, cause that support is du-uh-umb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolvir Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 okay look using "old thing was shit" to justify "new thing is shit" is dumb shouldn't we expect things to improve over time instead of get worse besides most of what people talked about was not story nor was most of it about fanservice did you even read what people said or just have a stock response ready for whenever people complain about this game No that was not a stock response, yes I read the posts, no it doesn't justify it being bad, but all I am saying is to enjoy the game for what it is, and that the game isn't even out yet and we are throwing it in the trash. Let's see what localization does, because so far it seems they are doing a good job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryhard Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 It's not so much a case that 'we' are throwing it in the trash, just that since Awakening the fanbase has been pretty divided and polarized in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolvir Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) It's not so much a case that 'we' are throwing it in the trash, just that since Awakening the fanbase has been pretty divided and polarized in general. I've begun to notice that. Not the first time it's happened. I just personally stand in a neutral area of it could better, it could be worst. I think that it needs to be given a fair chance, and that a lot of this is vented frustration of older fans over the direction of where the game is going. Edited January 22, 2016 by Tolvir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NekoKnight Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Listening to the vocal minority does only that pleases the vocal minority, it's not necessarily a good change for the majority so I see keep it as the original vision until you see how it sells if the changes affect sales then change, that's my take away on it. If you cut content people already assume is going to be in the game and it still does worse well you're getting a skewed statistic by those who didn't order it because of X or Y even if it was change AND you're getting those annoyed/upset by the changes made after the edits. Tl;dr Stand by your initial product even if it might not do as well as if it was tweaked. This is a bizarre comparison to make. You say that only the vocal minority is being pleased, but what in the original support was worthwhile keeping? Are you arguing that the support would be worse off with those elements removed? I can't decide if I'd rather have Soliel still be a (pseudo) lesbian, or just be rewritten as completely straight. As stated above, the western audience will(and has) interpret it seriously, as actual LGBT+ representation. Mostly because, ya know, we want that. We've already seen how people generally reacted to Soliel and her gay-but-not-actually shtick. I'm certainly glad the support has been altered, but what about Soliel as a whole? Do we know yet? Personally, I'd rather have Soliel as the lesbian option than Tharja 2.0. The main reason I'm disappointed with Shara is she's nothing new; on the other hand, Soliel IS. Which instantly makes her more interesting and attractive. But, if the keep her as is--a faux lesbian- then that'll really upset fans, especially queer ones like me. And if they just make her straight? Gay erasure. Or, it'll be interpreted that way, at least. I don't want anymore jokes to represent us(as in, the gay/lesbian community), but I don't want to see her homosexuality just tossed out the window. If you can even call it that, anyway. If only script changes can be made, then making her completely straight would be an improvement in my opinion. People would scream and moan about erasing gays in our media, but the the truth is, Soleil exists just to queer-bait, and is worse for existing as a psuedo lesbian than a heterosexual woman. If they could do more than script changes, it would be best to give her a S support with at least Femui. This would be preferable because it would require less characterization changes and actually be more consistent with her alleged sexuality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time the Crestfallen Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) In regards to old FE vs new FE, I honestly think that it comes down to personal tolerance for fanservice and changes to how they design the game. For instance, it's a pretty popular opinion in the Pokemon fandom that the opinions of Genwunners are idiotic at best and downright hypocritical at worst. It's one thing to say that you like older FE games better and dislike the newer ones for their flaws, but it's another thing entirely to insist that the newer FE games aren't 'proper' FE games and that IS should definitely take the game back to it's roots, as there's likely a large number of people who enjoy the new games and would then complain about IS pandering to the 'vocal minority' who want FE to be more like say, Genealogy or Binding Blade. However, I think it's also worth noting that all the aspects of Awakening and Fates that people lambaste them for aren't entirely new to the franchise, but are instead things that appeared in the older games that have been turned up to eleven. I'm not saying that this means that Awakening/Fates shouldn't be criticised for their flaws (whatever those flaws may be to you personally), but rather why using their flaws of why they should be more like older games rings a little hollow. Let's start with fanservice-y design. Here's a picture of young Tiki (most images will be links since I can't be arsed with finding the proper image extensions or whatever they're called http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/File:Tiki_artwork_Cipher_TCG.png And here's one of Nowi https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/a4/3f/7e/a43f7e42ee4c10c3e22fc4c145e1dd0e.jpg Is Nowi worse? Holy Jesus, you bet your completed Lunatic + save file she is. However, Tiki's design is still, in the words of those who (justifiably so mind you) complain about Nowi, somewhat pedobait-ish and not what you'd want someone who looks 11-12 to wear. In fact, while we're on the subject of creepy character design, here's Sylvia from Genealogy of the Holy War, arguably the most popular FE game after Awakening in the West. http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/fireemblem/images/d/d9/SylviaTCGCropped.png/revision/latest?cb=20130918224949 This is just as bad as Now's design IMO in terms of fanservice. I don't know her exact age, but the wiki says that she's in her teens and if I recall, Sigurd says that she's too young to be on a battlefield, which implies around 14-16. Also, I find it funny how, in discussions about fanservice in FE games, it's always the female characters that come up. While I will not claim to know the exact demographics for Fire Emblem's fanbase, it isn't as if male characters haven't had some pretty fanservice-y designs. In Fates for example, Leo and Takumi were specifically designed with appealing to female fans. Then there's designs like: [spoiler=Dat Midriff] http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/fireemblem/images/4/4e/Sothe_as_a_rouge_RD.png/revision/latest?cb=20110819154743 [spoiler=Dem Muscles] [spoiler=Someone mark the topic as NSFW!] Such beauty... Also, in terms of marriage and children, in FE4 you also had to pair up all the units and make them have children. This is justified by the fact that pretty much every first-gen character dies after chapter five. However, here's a link to the 'Pairing Guide' from Genealogy's section on this very website. http://www.serenesforest.net/wiki/index.php/Genealogy_of_the_Holy_War_Pairing_Guide And one for Love Growth http://serenesforest.net/genealogy-of-the-holy-war/characters/love-growth/I couldn't help but notice that the word 'marriage' comes up a lot. In the Love Growth article, note that the final stage of the Love stages is 'marriage', while in the Pairing Guide, the pairings are ranked in terms of best to words and there's even a list of good combinations below that, similar to the often joked about 'Fire Emblem Eugenics Simulator' from Awakening. Hell, seeing as Awakening was a last hurrah to the entire series, I'd say that the Eugenics aspect of pairings was inspired by/taken from FE4. As for the supports leading straight into marriage for Awakening, I honestly don't recall FE4's gameplay well enough Nohr (ba-dum tss!) could I find enough information to figure out how the Love Growth tiers would be reflected in person i.e. whether two people being in love is the start of the relationship or just mutual feelings for each other without a relationship. As for time scale, the prologue for FE4 starts at Gran Calendar- 757 while Chapter five starts at Gran Calendar- 760 (3 years). I also don't recall how long it takes to build up love points to the marriage tier, but I'm going to assume they'd have to have been married some time before chapter 5 in order for the children to have been born, but long enough after the birth that they'd be in fighting condition, so to me personally they would've had to have married each other in-universe around 1 year after meeting each other. No as bad as Awakening and I'm willing to admit that being in a life-or-death situation would've sped up the whole bonding process, but that's still a pretty quick transition from liking someone to marrying them (feel free to correct me if I was wrong about anything). For me personally anyway, I'm pretty sure that all the controversy around Fates will be a one-off thing that resulted from IS trying to combine the serious plots of older FE games with the newer elements introduced in Awakening and doing a poor job of it and that the next FE game will be much better, but maybe I'm being a bit too optimistic. Edited January 22, 2016 by Phillius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyainou Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 If only script changes can be made, then making her completely straight would be an improvement in my opinion. People would scream and moan about erasing gays in our media, but the the truth is, Soleil exists just to queer-bait, and is worse for existing as a psuedo lesbian than a heterosexual woman. If they could do more than script changes, it would be best to give her a S support with at least Femui. This would be preferable because it would require less characterization changes and actually be more consistent with her alleged sexuality. I think in the end, I agree. I would be disappointed to lose out on a queer character, but she really is nothing more than a queer-bait. Hopefully IS just gets more progressive and accepting by FE:15 and we can have a real (strictly) lesbian option. After all, we can hopefully only improve from here. I would be over the moon if there were gay only options, but that may be hoping for too much too soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NekoKnight Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) In regards to old FE vs new FE, I honestly think that it comes down to personal tolerance for fanservice and changes to how they design the game. For instance, it's a pretty popular opinion in the Pokemon fandom that the opinions of Genwunners are idiotic at best and downright hypocritical at worst. It's one thing to say that you like older FE games better and dislike the newer ones for their flaws, but it's another thing entirely to insist that the newer FE games aren't 'proper' FE games and that IS should definitely take the game back to it's roots, as there's likely a large number of people who enjoy the new games and would then complain about IS pandering to the 'vocal minority' who want FE to be more like say, Genealogy or Binding Blade. However, I think it's also worth noting that all the aspects of Awakening and Fates that people lambaste them for aren't entirely new to the franchise, but are instead things that appeared in the older games that have been turned up to eleven. I'm not saying that this means that Awakening/Fates shouldn't be criticised for their flaws (whatever those flaws may be to you personally), but rather why using their flaws of why they should be more like older games rings a little hollow. I don't think Genwunners are comparable to the Old vs New crowd in the Fire Emblem community because no one is really advocating for Fire Emblem to return to it's very first roots. Like the first Pokemon games, FE Dark Dragon and the Sword of Light hasn't aged well. The main splits are between the pre-Kaga and post-Kaga games and then the FE6-10 games and what comes after. (Besides, I'm convinced Genwunners are just a boogeyman and don't actually exist in large numbers.) As far as "There has been similar stuff before but now it's cranked up to eleven", yes the part people complain about is the "cranked up to eleven". Let's start with fanservice-y design. Here's a picture of young Tiki (most images will be links since I can't be arsed with finding the proper image extensions or whatever they're called http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/File:Tiki_artwork_Cipher_TCG.png And here's one of Nowi https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/a4/3f/7e/a43f7e42ee4c10c3e22fc4c145e1dd0e.jpg Is Nowi worse? Holy Jesus, you bet your completed Lunatic + save file she is. However, Tiki's design is still, in the words of those who (justifiably so mind you) complain about Nowi, somewhat pedobait-ish and not what you'd want someone who looks 11-12 to wear. In fact, while we're on the subject of creepy character design, here's Sylvia from Genealogy of the Holy War, arguably the most popular FE game after Awakening in the West. http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/fireemblem/images/d/d9/SylviaTCGCropped.png/revision/latest?cb=20130918224949 This is just as bad as Now's design IMO in terms of fanservice. I don't know her exact age, but the wiki says that she's in her teens and if I recall, Sigurd says that she's too young to be on a battlefield, which implies around 14-16. Also, I find it funny how, in discussions about fanservice in FE games, it's always the female characters that come up. While I will not claim to know the exact demographics for Fire Emblem's fanbase, it isn't as if male characters haven't had some pretty fanservice-y designs. In Fates for example, Leo and Takumi were specifically designed with appealing to female fans. Then there's designs like: [spoiler=Dat Midriff] http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/fireemblem/images/4/4e/Sothe_as_a_rouge_RD.png/revision/latest?cb=20110819154743 [spoiler=Dem Muscles] [spoiler=Someone mark the topic as NSFW!] Such beauty... Tiki isn't really pedo-bait outside of being a cute child. Yes, her skirt is short but it's not sexual unless you already find children sexual. Nowi, the the other hand, has a fetishized outfit and more importantly. you are able and encouraged to get her shacked up with an adult. Something that should be kept in mind when discussing character outfits is their role/characterization in-story. Sothe is a thief and Sylvia a dancer (a job specifically about being visually appealing) so their outfits are appropriate. It's part of the reason why people have a problem with Camilla, a princess and warrior that wears a hyper sexualized outfit. I think in the end, I agree. I would be disappointed to lose out on a queer character, but she really is nothing more than a queer-bait. Hopefully IS just gets more progressive and accepting by FE:15 and we can have a real (strictly) lesbian option. After all, we can hopefully only improve from here. I would be over the moon if there were gay only options, but that may be hoping for too much too soon. Well, we did have Heather in RD for a not so subtle lesbian who actually likes girls. Of course, Heather would undoubtedly be bisexual in she were in Fates. Edited January 22, 2016 by NekoKnight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Fire Emblem as a series has always been changing. There are times when I feel the jump from FE13 => FE14 may have actually had fewer changes compared to changes between previous game series. I mean, that could just be my opinion and all, but I feel that a lot of people don't understand that FE has always been changing little things about its mechanics and adding/taking away things between games, and that there are some people who think that people complaining about Awakening/Fates are "against change" when sometimes their arguments make me think that THEY'RE the ones who are against change. I don't know. Fire Emblem sucks (but not as much as mafia). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time the Crestfallen Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) I don't think Genwunners are comparable to the Old vs New crowd in the Fire Emblem community because no one is really advocating for Fire Emblem to return to it's very first roots. Like the first Pokemon games, FE Dark Dragon and the Sword of Light hasn't aged well. The main splits are between the pre-Kaga and post-Kaga games and then the FE6-10 games and what comes after. (Besides, I'm convinced Genwunners are just a boogeyman and don't actually exist in large numbers.) I was simply making a point about how some fans of older installments of a long-running franchise having a hate-boner for new installments is as inevitable as death and taxes. Genwunners, die-hard melee fans, OOT Fanboys and even some FE fans all seem to have the opinion that newer games have absolutely nothing to offer the franchise and that older games are objectively superior. But then I might just be overly-sensitive to such things considering that my brother is exactly like those people I mentioned (Pokemon? The original 151 are the only good Pokemon. LOZ? Anybody who likes Wind Waker should play some 'real' Zelda games. Smash? Any version other than Melee and PM is for casuals and you can probably guess who he mains. FE? POR was the last 'passable' game and anyone who likes Awakening is a Waifu-fag. He also thinks that Undertale is a flawless masterpiece and that Life is Strange has one of the best stories ever. Someone please rescue me from this circle of hell). Tiki isn't really pedo-bait outside of being a cute child. Yes, her skirt is short but it's not sexual unless you already find children sexual. Nowi, the the other hand, has a fetishized outfit and more importantly. you are able and encouraged to get her shacked up with an adult. My point wasn't about characters being sexualised, my point was that they both have terrible design. Nowi is by far the worse of the two, but Tiki's outfit is still terrible, especially considering the way Bantu dresses. As for Nowi being able to marry adults, you're encouraged to do the same with Sylvia and she doesn't even have the excuse of being 1000 years old. Something that should be kept in mind when discussing character outfits is their role/characterization in-story. Sothe is a thief and Sylvia a dancer (a job specifically about being visually appealing) so their outfits are appropriate. It's part of the reason why people have a problem with Camilla, a princess and warrior that wears a hyper sexualized outfit. I'll admit that you're right about Sylvia's outfit. I'm not even going to bring up her age as a defense, since time's is hard and you gotta do whatcha gotta do. Sothe isn't really excusable though, since both Gaius and Niles are also thieves and both of them don't run around with midriffs exposed. Besides, as long as we're talking about in-universe justification, what about Tharja? She lives in Plegia (a desert), so she and every other NPC dark mage probably dress the way they do to help with the heat (anyone who thinks they could live in Plegia wearing Mage/Sage robes is a no-good f*cking liar). You'll note that Plegia has a lot of fighters and barbarians, which also run around shirtless as nameless mooks, but she's been criticised for her outfit. Edited January 22, 2016 by Phillius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) i'm sorry but that is just false, Sylvia's vagina produces two of the worst kids of the second gen, heck the replacements are considered much better overall. so actually i have to say that the game doesn't encourage you to get her married. hell there's countless stories of 'I WANTED LEVIN TO MARRY FURY, BUT SYLVIA FELL IN LOVE WITH HIM FIRST, DAMN IT" so i can hardly say that its encouraging. Edited January 22, 2016 by HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Karnage Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) My point wasn't about characters being sexualised, my point was that they both have terrible design. Nowi is by far the worse of the two, but Tiki's outfit is still terrible, especially considering the way Bantu dresses. you know FE 1 doesn't necessarily have the best art http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/fireemblem/images/7/70/Fe1marthfalchion.png/revision/latest?cb=20140329013726 personally I think Tiki's younger design is cute Edited January 22, 2016 by Captain Karnage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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