Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War 2017 Tier List - Day 39: The support kids (Corple, Lene, Sharlow and Laylea)

[OliKad]

Even if you decide to recruit Johan, it's still possible to get Nosferatu. Just wait until the axe knight brigade captures Isaac, and then recapture Isaac, give Nosferatu to Julia, and then capture Sophara. Although I suppose it's easy to miss if you don't know what you're doing.

Yep, pretty much. Even though it's the ultimate anti-LTC way, that's what I did 2 times out of 3, just so I had a mediocre mounted unit instead of a mediocre foot unit...

[Levin's Scarf]

Yep, pretty much. Even though it's the ultimate anti-LTC way, that's what I did 2 times out of 3, just so I had a mediocre mounted unit instead of a mediocre foot unit...

The battle for mediocrity- Not As Cool As Dagdar vs. Discount Lex

Recently I went with the former because he's the only playable warrior you can get in FE4.

[CappnRob]

I am going to play some serious devil's advocate for Aura simply because I got damn decent mileage out of it on Deirdre, albiet that is admittedly because she has the circlet which grants prayer, but I digress.

Namely the thing is ridiculously strong magic in a game where nothing has any magic defense almost, and even the things that DO have magic defense really isn't all that great 9 out of 10 times. Aura packs 20 damage alone and Julia has an obscenely high magic stat, and you can drop the magic ring on her to buff it up even higher if you want. She still has pursuit and continue as well, so while Aura will be hampering her ability to double hit, it isn't technically impossible for her to do so, but hell even one hit from that thing can vaporize most units or at least severely damage them. Of course Rezire is still better in every way because its lighter and it heals you, but with some careful planning and positioning you can make effective use out of Aura and turn Julia into a mini nuclear blast on legs.

Edit: On the issue of Johan and Johalva, I honestly like Johalva more. He isn't mounted, but his bases compensate for his defencies better (Johan has bad skill, Johalva has bad speed, but Johan has a bad skill base Johalva has a great speed base). He might be footlocked but as I keep saying infantry has its place in FE4. Once he promotes he gets bows so you can drop the brave bow and brave axe on him and hell probably the pursuit ring too if noone else is using it and wham have at it. Johalva does offer something new in that regard where as Johan sadly is just Discount Lex. I really don't know why they did that... at least both brothers have fun personalities. I wish you could recruit them both tbh :V

Edited January 11, 2017 by CappnRob

[OliKad]

Edit: On the issue of Johan and Johalva, I honestly like Johalva more. He isn't mounted, but his bases compensate for his defencies better (Johan has bad skill, Johalva has bad speed, but Johan has a bad skill base Johalva has a great speed base). He might be footlocked but as I keep saying infantry has its place in FE4. Once he promotes he gets bows so you can drop the brave bow and brave axe on him and hell probably the pursuit ring too if noone else is using it and wham have at it. Johalva does offer something new in that regard where as Johan sadly is just Discount Lex. I really don't know why they did that... at least both brothers have fun personalities. I wish you could recruit them both tbh :V

Keep it for later today ;)

[OliKad]

Kawaii Final Boss eraser got a rating of 4,91/10 according to 18 users! Guess availability and starting equipment really does matter in this game :P

Because I am the master of this show/trainwreck, I decided that we shall do a double feature today! Can you guess which people it's gonna be?

JOHAN

Class: Axe Knight (Level 12)
Holy Blood: Minor Neir
Personal Skills: Ambush

Class Skills: None
Stats:
40 HP (110%)
15 Strength (40%)
0 Magic (5%)
10 Skill (20%)
12 Speed (50%)
12 Defense (60%)
1 Resistance (5%)
5 Luck (10%)

My thoughts: Johan is such a cool character, solely for the way he talks! Sadly, I can't say the same for his stats and skills...
He joins your party at Level 12, which is sort of like a poisoned gift, because you won't immediatly notice that he's quite mediocre. Sure, it's an automatic plus that he's mounted, but as Anime Charles Bronson CappnRob pointed out, he's basically just Discount Lex. Well, this thankfully means that his Power and Defense are still great, and so are his Hit Points, and for an Axe Knight, he's not really that slow. But MAN, THAT SKILL. It's awful, just awful. It means that despite his positive assets, it's gonna be very likely that he'll lead you to frustrating misses, so that kinda sucks. However, even with his actually pretty decent stats, its really his skillset that ruins him. Remember when we all said that Paragon is what made Lex definitively good? Welp, Johan doesn't have it. Owch. And that's also where you realize that his high Speed barely matters, since he does not have any multi-attack skills, and that really sucks :/ Also, Vantage, I guess...
Still, despite that, he still got access to the super cool Brave Axe and still has a horse, so Johan will perform quite decently in certain situations, but he's certainly one of your weaker units in the game. I,ll give him a 5.5/10 while being generous...

JOHALVA

Class: Axe Fighter (Level 12)

Holy Blood: Minor Neir
Personal Skills: Charge

Class Skills: None
Stats:
42 HP (110%)
16 Strength (40%)
0 Magic (0%)
7 Skill (50%)
16 Speed (10%)
14 Defense (60%)
1 Resistance (5%)
5 Luck (10%)

My thoughts: THAT SPEED GROWTH SUUUUCKS *ahem* Anyway, Johalva is a much less interesting character, but let's look at him as a unit...
He also joins as a Level 12 unit, but with better stats almost all around compared to his brother, except for his Skill. But his growth in that area is perfectly fine, so no worries. Speaking of, his growths are mostly kinda lame for Gen 2 standards, but perfectly fine on their own, with good Defense, HP and Skill, too! Except for one thing: his GOD. AWFUL. SPEED GROWTH. Yes, his base Speed is good enough, but that's not a reason for having only 10% in Gen 2. It' just not good at all! Especially since, unlike his brother, he has a Skill that allows multiple attacks. Sure, it's Charge, the worst of the bunch, but it's still a Speed-based Skill, and that kinda screws him over.
To further hurt his usefulness, he still has the endless curse of being a foot unit. However, as a tradeoff, Johalva is still the only playable Axe Fighter in the game, so he does have his niche there. Said niche is also his promotion to a Warrior, which grants him solid bonuses and the niche access to bows, which does make Charge a bit more useful when it does proc, but when you have the Brave Axe, bows will not matter that much anymore...
Now, for the big question: which one of these two do I pick, personally? Well, I think that while both are pretty mediocre but still useful, I'd rather pick the one that is on a horse, so my vote goes to Johan. Which means that Johalva will get my rating of 5/10.

Edited January 12, 2017 by OliKad

[Vaximillian]

Johalvier is not an Axe Knight but an Axe Fighter/just Fighter, you messed up a tiny bit when copying Johan's part.

Johalvier's a bro though:

I will get Johan my next playthrough so I won't rate either yet.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Vaximillian

[OliKad]

That was embarassing xD

[Valkama]

They both suck. Johalva is better since he can keep up pretty well in the arena but he isn't doing much with all that experience and gold so the choice honestly doesn't matter. They can be useful for fighting enemies close to the start of your castle but they never are good enough to be in the main team and drop off the face of the Earth as soon as that disappears. Johalva I suppose has a niche with bows at endgame but that only matters for ranked because of the canto glitch with Julius. They both get a solid 3/10.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Valkama

[Levin's Scarf]

Johalva- 5/10. Better bases than Johan, but footlocked. He has awful speed growths, but the bases make up for it and the lack of pursuit renders it moot. His promotion offers some flexibility with the ability to use bows.

Johan- 5.5/10. He does have a horse but it doesn't matter as much because he's a mediocre unit anyway. Basically Lex without Paragon and is clearly inferior to Seliph, Ares, and a promoted Leif.

[ZemZem]

Johalva: Great bases, but lame growths and he's stuck with a shitty weapon type. Bows make it a bit better upon promotion, but not too much. Also he's a footie. No mountie hurts. 2/10

Johan: Good bases, better growths, and he actually is a mountie. But again, shitty weapon type. Tries too hard to be Lex 2.0 but Lex wasn't even that great. 4/10

If only these guys had Swanchika.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Zeems

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Johan is mounted and has much better speedgrowth. Well, latter doesn't matter all that much because lacking of pursuit and using the heaviest weapon type. Despite using axes he's actually a good contender for using a pursuit ring with his good speedgrowth.

With the brave axe he's pretty good quite good. He can oneshot mages with that.

Unfortunately he doesn't grow as fast as Lex because of lacking of paragon.

He's not bad, but still probably the worst or second worst cavalier after Delmud, though.

5.5 / 10

Never ever recruited Johalva because he's not mounted and has the worse skill actually. Charge is absolute suicide on the slowest class in the game. However she seems to be the more accurate axe user of the two, but it doesn't say anything for me.

3 / 10

Edited January 12, 2017 by Eleanor Hume

[Peppy]

Johan has a horse and Brave Axe access but his stats are just not good enough. 2.5/10 (-0.5 bias included because his obsession with Larcei creeps up so much and it is just annoying)

Johalva has decent bases but his growths and lack of a mount will not get him anywhere. 2.5/10 (+0.5 bias for crabwalk)

[General Horace]

Johan - Can goon some dudes in the first couple maps with the hero axe. Otherwise does very little, for love, for Lakche. 3/10.

Johalva - Can't reach enemies to goon them with the hero axe. 1/10.

[FionordeQuester]

JOHAN

Class: Axe Knight (Level 12)
Holy Blood: Minor Neir
Personal Skills: Ambush
Class Skills: None

Stats:
40 HP (110%)
15 Strength (40%)
0 Magic (5%)
10 Skill (20%)
12 Speed (50%)
12 Defense (60%)
1 Resistance (5%)
5 Luck (10%)

My thoughts: Honestly, I...don't have much to say in regards to him. He's budget Lex, in a Generation where even the real Lex isn't all that impressive anymore. He's just...so underwhelming; and worse yet, he steals EXP from your other more powerful units if you decide to give him kills. I guess I'll give him a 5/10 just for being on a horse, and for having decent base stats, but...man does he leave a bad taste in my mouth.

Don't even particularly like him as a character either. The guy just comes off as a meaner version of Sain, with quotes like...

"To die at my hand...you should feel flattered"

And while Johalva seems genuinely ashamed of the child hunts, Johan's Chapter 6 dialogue seems to imply that he doesn't care much about anything besides being with Lakche. But don't worry; I don't let bias like that interfere with my rankings.

JOHALVA

Class: Axe Fighter (Level 12)
Holy Blood: Minor Neir
Personal Skills: Charge
Class Skills: None

Stats:
42 HP (110%)
16 Strength (40%)
0 Magic (0%)
7 Skill (50%)
16 Speed (10%)
14 Defense (60%)
1 Resistance (5%)
5 Luck (10%)

My thoughts: Many people say he's worse than Johalva...and I can understand that. His bases are mostly similar, but he doesn't have a horse like Johalva does; and that's almost always a death sentence in a game where horses rule the world.

However, Johalva has one VERY important niche in an AAAA Rank run; his performance in the Arena. Because while his bases are mostly similar to Johan, his PROMOTION is leagues better. He gains access to the Killer Bow and Hero Bows, which both weigh significantly less than even the Hero Axe; his Speed post-promotion speed disadvantage is rendered null and void on account of this. And besides that, his Killer Bow crits are dynamite! The guy's natural speed and power are high enough that he actually CAN kill most things with the Killer Bow, especially if he's got the Pursuit Ring. And he WILL have the Pursuit Ring if he's got Lex!Lakche as his wife; the girl's a walking cash dispensor when she doesn't need the Elite Ring for leveling!

But...I'm doing these ranks from a casual perspective, not an AAAA Rank run. So I think I'll give him...a 2/10. He's better than Johan for the EXP rank, but otherwise, he's Ardan tier.

Edited January 12, 2017 by FionordeQuester

[CappnRob]

Man I feel out of place because I love the Axe Bros lol.

Johan has a mount but weaker bases than Johalva and is as I said, Diet Lex. Why they only gave him one skill when almost every other G2 non-sub character has at least 2 (hell even G1 most characters had 2 unless it was pursuit) is bewildering to me. Ambush is alright but niche and really isn't that great by itself. His skill is abyssal too, and axes are inaccurate, and FE4 is a single RNG game, so..... yeah. I love his personality though, so he gets a small bias for me for a 5.5.

Johalva is infantry and G2 is less kind to infantry than G1 is, but still has his role. His bases are stupidly good for his level and unlike Johan his bad speed growth is compensated by a great speed base and decent promo gains. He does have a somewhat terrible skill with duel and nothing to compliment it, though which is a bummer. Promotion though is really what makes Johalva shine imo: access to bows gives him a niche, he can either use the brave bow to double (and his huge HP stat will likely mean duel will kick in which is GOOD for ranged attacks), or the killer bow for crits (he has good skill). He's a good contender for the pursuit ring as most of G2's characters will have it innately unless you're doing a sub run (or do some weird Lex/Claude pairings), and the guy like his brother is an absolute beeftank for soaking hits. I also love his wildman personality, so a little bit of bias there too for a 6.5 for me.

[Excellen Browning]

Johan can realistically do some fighting and is okay-ish at it as long as he has the hero axe. Not really worth deploying after chapter 7 if you're not doing a substitutes run. 4/10

Johalva can perhaps do the same amount of fighting Johan can in chapter 6 and 7 due to the way they are played. Does so with worse hit rates. Might as well fall off the face of the earth after chapter 7, substitute run or no. 2/10

[Darrman]

The axe brothers of this game are pretty bad. Let's start with Johan.

Johan has a horse. Like many others have said, he's basically Discount Lex. So this version doesn't have the Elite skill? Well dammit, that's what made my Lex competent! Get him the brave axe and he's alright, I suppose. 5/10.

Johalva? Oh boy. Like his brother, he starts at level 12, so his EXP gain is a bit slow to start with. His bases aren't too horrible, but lacks Pursuit and is on foot? And has Charge? Sure he can take down a thing or two early on with that brave axe, but he just ends up falling behind in experience as well because two hits don't cut it... At least they come early enough. But he's probably the second most useless unit in Gen 2; only Hannibal is worse. 2/10.

[CappnRob]

We're well past talking about Tiltyu but I can't help but feel like I should bring this up.

So everyone is all "she comes too late and is too much work to level" and I'm all like "lolwat" now. She didn't get much out of the pirates (maybe 2 levels with Thoron crits and Fury bodyguarding her) but the following chapter? This screen cap is right before fighting with Deet'var's squad and all it took was the paragon ring and the arena. Wrath lets her basically win every fight, even that goddamn volcannon baron at the end. Throw in a few wind mages and she's already level 15 without any real special attention aside from letting her hold the paragon ring (and really I got noone else who can use it that can afford it right now :V)

A bit off topic I guess because we're talking G2 units now but thought it was ammusing to bring up. Now to see if I have a save state of my Deiredre this run so everyone can bask in her level 20+ glory (she also got stupidly good level ups this run, really worked those 10% speed and skill growths out :Y)

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Yeah, Taillte is really easy to train with the combo: wrath + paragon scroll + magic ring (the reason why I ranked her much higher than several other units)

It's not hard to promote her in the beginning of chapter 4 (after arena).

If you want to overkill, then give her the pursuit ring too.

That's what I usually do to make Tinny OP.

[Flee Fleet!]

The best way to describe the axe bros is:

Johan: Lex 2.0 with good bases and some nice growths. Still not as good as Lex.

Johalva: Footie axe unit that everyone sort of wanted in Gen1. Has great and better bases than Johan, but in return he gets a really bad Speed growth.

So basically, Johan's on a pony with good growths, except for Skill, which is bad

Meanwhile Johalva is stuck with a bad Speed growth, but better bases. All other growths, except Skill which is high and Mag which is at 0, is the same as Johan.

Honestly, both are axe units. And there's not much of difference in their usefulness besides movement. Johan's more of a comic relief (the way he talks, that is), and Johalva is more serious. They have different skills as well: Johan has Ambush, which allows him to attack first if he has low HP; Johalva has Charge, which can allow another round of combat. Johalva can also use bows once promoted, and is easier for him to be paired up with Lakche(although it doesn't really matter much anymore in Gen2). But Johan, having a horse, has easier time killing stuff. I usually go for Johalva because we already had the original Lex doing awesome stuff in Gen 1. Therefore...

Johalva gets a 6.5/10 with positive bias

But Lex 2.0 gets a 6/10, because I don't like the way he talks, and he will always be second to Lex.

[Shin]

Yep, pretty much. Even though it's the ultimate anti-LTC way, that's what I did 2 times out of 3, just so I had a mediocre mounted unit instead of a mediocre foot unit...

It's actually quicker to forgo Julia getting a tome entirely in chapter 6. She can get enough levels using staves to promote in time for her kidnapping.

Johalva is pretty bad and walks like a crab. He's underwhelming compared to the rest of your foot units, but I guess he's not an active detriment. Charge doesn't really help him because axes nuke his AS, and his damage output is limited by his lack of skills. He has some role in sniping wyverns, but you have a plethora of units who can fight better than him. His main redeeming features are that nobody wants the Hero Axe and he comes relatively early.

2/10

Johan is hilarious but he's worse than Lex. He's easily the worst mounted unit in gen 2, maybe excluding like Janne but she can at least pretend to be a staff user. Ambush doesn't work because he doesn't have the offense to ORKO things. He can at least keep up, and his stats aren't meaningfully worse than his crab-legged brother.

3.5/10

[Yojinbo]

@OliKad

I'd like to change my rating for Julia from 4 -> 3.

Johalva gets a 2 from me. He's actually better in ranked runs than Johan because he can avoid Swiordfighters in the arenas by switching to Bows. I'm not taking that into consideration though, arena performance is just for self-improvement and doesn't affect a unit's rating for me. He can take on a few enemy units in the early stages of a chapter, like Hannibal's squad but he won't be doing a whole lot regardless.

Johan gets a 3 including -0.5 points of negative bias for being annoying to recruit when you play through the game in a non-casual fashion. It's easier to just kill Johan and recruit Johalva, which honestly happens more often than not for me. If Johan were actually a good unit it'd be a different matter but he doesn't do enough to actually justify recruiting him for me. If you do recruit him you might be able to make use of him as an auxiliary unit.

If only these guys had Swanchika.

That wouldn't even help them all that much - enemy units will just stop attacking them because of the defensive bonuses they get from the Swanchika. So for the most part it'd nullify their enemy phase performance and only slightly improve their player phase :/

[OliKad]

@OliKad

I'd like to change my rating for Julia from 4 -> 3.

Johalva gets a 2 from me. He's actually better in ranked runs than Johan because he can avoid Swiordfighters in the arenas by switching to Bows. I'm not taking that into consideration though, arena performance is just for self-improvement and doesn't affect a unit's rating for me. He can take on a few enemy units in the early stages of a chapter, like Hannibal's squad but he won't be doing a whole lot regardless.

Johan gets a 3 including -0.5 points of negative bias for being annoying to recruit when you play through the game in a non-casual fashion. It's easier to just kill Johan and recruit Johalva, which honestly happens more often than not for me. If Johan were actually a good unit it'd be a different matter but he doesn't do enough to actually justify recruiting him for me. If you do recruit him you might be able to make use of him as an auxiliary unit.

That wouldn't even help them all that much - enemy units will just stop attacking them because of the defensive bonuses they get from the Swanchika. So for the most part it'd nullify their enemy phase performance and only slightly improve their player phase :/

Done! :)

I don't think that the Hellswath would nullify their enemy phase, because while they do get a +10 bonus in Resistance, it's still not enough against mages, so they will attack Johan/Johalva if they can reach them, and since this axe has 30 might and 1-2 range, well, they,ll suddenly become quite competent mage killers! ^^

[Punished Dayni]

It's time for the Dozel twins! Who'd be more useful in G1!

Johan is a mounted axe unit with Neir blood and Ambush. So he's Lex, right? Unfortunately, he's lesser than Lex for several reasons. First, he's in the more difficult G2, he's axelocked and enemies can actually dodge better now. Second, he hasn't got Elite and he's level 12 with those bases, so they're nothing exceptional and he'll take very long to level up at the start. Third, he's also got the Achilles heel of poor skill growth (20%), hurting his accuracy more. Even if his bases are better, the role he can play is still more limited than it would have been 17 years before. Also, he's still axelocked on promotion, at a time where axes are less relevant. As an example, how many enemy formations use lances in the last chapter? In practice, only the barons around Hilda. So even weapon triangle isn't justifiable by the end. Still, he's able to swing the Brave axe for good damage, and help build up kills if that's what you're looking for. He's still a mounted unit in Mount Emblem and he's at least able to tank physical hits decently enough.

Johalva, on the other hand, is an Axefighter. You know, those generics that you swat away without a thought. His bases are overall better, but he's a foot unit locked to axes. That should be a death sentence, and Charge can also screw him over (as well as using his speed, which I'll get to). Also, while his growths are like Johan's (with their speed and skill in inverse), unlike Johan his lower growth is Speed, at 10%. I should be screaming at that. that's the same as Dierdre and Hannibal, the lowest in FE4, and one's intended as a backup unit and the other is not involved long in the game. But thanks to his base 16, it's not "so shit Sophia is looking better" bad. But still, he's similar to Johan but on foot and he has Charge to potentially screw him over. At least he promotes to a Warrior, which has Bows to get out of being weighed down by 20 at range and give him something to hit swords with. I must admit that I have not yet used Johalva, so this is just an "on paper" analysis, and I might change my mind on this after using him.

Anyways, either of them will want the Pursuit Ring (if it can be spared) and the Brave axe (which can be useful for someone like Leaf to have, keep in mind). Also, they've got an event to make Radney better (and she needs that).

I'm going to rate Johan 3.5/10 and Johalva 3/10. While they'll have some purpose in a substitute run, it's nothing exceptional and they're just not as capable as the child units. They're similar in bases to make them only really separated by a horse length, which Johan has. Johalva can have better combat, in specific circumstances (likely with a bow and Charge procs), but Johan's combat is consistent: Axe to the face and run.

[qwernst]

Johan is mounted, something a lot of FE 4 players here like, but has bad skill, you're lucky to hit anything with him. Because of his lack of a good skill like Pursuit or Adept, he'll need a Brave Axe to be relevant. You'll also throw him the Ch 6 Skill ring to make up for his poor growth too. 4/10

Johalvier/Johalva is not mounted, but is the only Fighter that you can recruit. He does have a continue attack skill unlike Johan, but it's Accost, and Accost is the weakest of the three continue skills. Get the Brave Axe for him and the Skill ring like Johan. His promotion as a Warrior adds a second weapon for him to use unlike Johan. His Bow skill allows him to use the Killer Bow and Brave Bow which are the best Bows that aren't holy. He has a bad speed growth, but his base balances it. 5/10

Depending on who you recruit, it dictates what weapon Julia gets. recruiting Johan gets you Aura, while Johalva gets you Nosferatu. I noticed there are loopholes in exploiting the enemy AI to get both, but it seems like a waste of time to me.