FE5 Tier List

[Mekkah]

Anyone think Asvel should rise to top? I mean...

[stuff that makes Asvel good]

nope

anyway, how's this for rearrangement? Linoan/Sarah down to Upper Mid, and Dagda and Salem up to above them + Leaf.

-High-

Nanna

Brighton

Asvel

Tina

Dean

Carrion

Homer

-Upper Mid-

Hicks

Karin

Dagda

Salem

Leaf

Linoan

Sarah

Sleuf

Sety

Galzus

Mareeta

Olwen

Eyrios

Machua

Trewd

Edited August 8, 2009 by Mekkah

[grandjackal]

Uhhh....There something I missed, Mekkah? That was a rather quick shoot-down.

Anyways, that rearrangement looks good to me.

[Salad Utensil]

anyway, how's this for rearrangement? Linoan/Sarah down to Upper Mid, and Dagda and Salem up to above them + Leaf.

-High-

Nanna

Brighton

Asvel

Tina

Dean

Carrion

Homer

-Upper Mid-

Hicks

Karin

Dagda

Salem

Leaf

Linoan

Sarah

Sleuf

Sety

Galzus

Mareeta

Olwen

Eyrios

Machua

Trewd

Now upper mid is way larger than other tiers. Suggestion to move machua and trewd to lower mid? below xavier, delmud, and amalda? Also Hicks and Karin to high or is there some kind of positive utility formula for determining tier levels or is it just relative to other PCs so the tiers should be equal?

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Uhhh....There something I missed, Mekkah? That was a rather quick shoot-down.

Anyways, that rearrangement looks good to me.

You basically stated the obvious a.k.a why he's in the current position. He won't get far with staves... likely a C at best.

[Salad Utensil]

Is cyas ever going to leave low? I think it was suggested to move him up somewhere in this thread but its been neglected :.(

[Renall]

Is cyas ever going to leave low? I think it was suggested to move him up somewhere in this thread but its been neglected :.(

Who is he better than? I can see him being better than Robert, Kein, Alva and Fred (and I can see Robert better than Kein and Alva), although Glade is questionable because Glade is at least providing a leadership star (Cyas's big sell) for much longer than Cyas would.

[Salad Utensil]

Is cyas ever going to leave low? I think it was suggested to move him up somewhere in this thread but its been neglected :.(

Who is he better than? I can see him being better than Robert, Kein, Alva and Fred (and I can see Robert better than Kein and Alva), although Glade is questionable because Glade is at least providing a leadership star (Cyas's big sell) for much longer than Cyas would.

Cyas also has A staves. definitely better than lenster failures and Fred. Not sure if it should count for him but his starting equipment has pretty cool stuff in it too. He's been in low too long for someone with Sleufish utility.

[Renall]

He also joins you with 5 leadership stars for one map even if you get Sety instead, right? So that's pretty handy. Then you have (if you take him) two or three chapters of A staves, okay bases, and +15% leadership bonuses to the entire team. 15% isn't small, especially against Dark Warlords where having lots of hit and evade is always useful to kill them quickly.

As for the Lenster failures: Glade is acceptable for not using a promo item and giving a leadership star, though he's worse than Fin in just about every other area. Still good to throw in if you have a free slot, and on some maps you will since there are a couple high-deployment maps. But Kein and Alva are just underleveled and largely inferior to Fin and Carrion (no swords on horse means no Elite Sword, no Brave Lance, not supported by Leaf), and it goes without saying they don't compare to the likes of Fergus, Othin, etc. If your team needs a combat unit there are much better options, even if Kein and Alva do scroll well (but they'll never be able to actually level outside Elite Mode because they're so weak to start). Plus even if they scroll well, they're still just Lance Knights. Meh.

By contrast, Robert has a few things going for him. He's got a horse, which automatically makes him better than Ronan and Tanya at mobility. He has the highest STR growth of the archers (counting Ronan, Tanya, and Selfina). His bases are comparable to Selfina's, 7 levels lower than her. He has some marginal scroll potential which would allow him to fill a role (chip damage with bows, which are not a high-demand weapon type in this game). His major flaw is E Bows to start though, and I really have no argument to make that any better.

Speaking of: Does Selfina having B Bows really not make that much of a difference for her? She has a literal monopoly on Silver, Killer, and Brave Bows before Xavier shows up to rock shit with his A Bows. Who else is going to use them? And at least there's some value to an archer for picking people off and softening bosses. It isn't much, but it ought to salvage them a little, oughtn't it? I realize that Selfina's stats are garbage, but it's not like in other FEs we don't use a character for a bit until they become a liability and kick them to the curb, and someone ought to make use of the Killer Bow (Xavier doesn't need crit, but he does want the Brave).

[Salad Utensil]

He also joins you with 5 leadership stars for one map even if you get Sety instead, right? So that's pretty handy. Then you have (if you take him) two or three chapters of A staves, okay bases, and +15% leadership bonuses to the entire team. 15% isn't small, especially against Dark Warlords where having lots of hit and evade is always useful to kill them quickly.

As for the Lenster failures: Glade is acceptable for not using a promo item and giving a leadership star, though he's worse than Fin in just about every other area. Still good to throw in if you have a free slot, and on some maps you will since there are a couple high-deployment maps. But Kein and Alva are just underleveled and largely inferior to Fin and Carrion (no swords on horse means no Elite Sword, no Brave Lance, not supported by Leaf), and it goes without saying they don't compare to the likes of Fergus, Othin, etc. If your team needs a combat unit there are much better options, even if Kein and Alva do scroll well (but they'll never be able to actually level outside Elite Mode because they're so weak to start). Plus even if they scroll well, they're still just Lance Knights. Meh.

By contrast, Robert has a few things going for him. He's got a horse, which automatically makes him better than Ronan and Tanya at mobility. He has the highest STR growth of the archers (counting Ronan, Tanya, and Selfina). His bases are comparable to Selfina's, 7 levels lower than her. He has some marginal scroll potential which would allow him to fill a role (chip damage with bows, which are not a high-demand weapon type in this game). His major flaw is E Bows to start though, and I really have no argument to make that any better.

Speaking of: Does Selfina having B Bows really not make that much of a difference for her? She has a literal monopoly on Silver, Killer, and Brave Bows before Xavier shows up to rock shit with his A Bows. Who else is going to use them? And at least there's some value to an archer for picking people off and softening bosses. It isn't much, but it ought to salvage them a little, oughtn't it? I realize that Selfina's stats are garbage, but it's not like in other FEs we don't use a character for a bit until they become a liability and kick them to the curb, and someone ought to make use of the Killer Bow (Xavier doesn't need crit, but he does want the Brave).

No response to the Cyas thing b/c i agree

@ lenster failures: IMO 1 leadership star kinda is pointless.If karin has 30 evade 33 evade won't really help much more. I don't think a character is worth field for only one leadership star. I also don't see how glade is a decent fighter. Have you ever used fin without the brave lance? Not very useful...1PCC and mediocre bases don't help glade either, he has to use the silver lance to deal mediocre damage. Thats why i gave fin wrath manuels. It is probably more useful to field an extra staff user or mareeta if you are willing to train her.

@ robert: The "few things" are the reason he is probably higher than tanya and ronan. E bows isn't that bad b/c only xavier and selphina will be at a significantly better weapon levels

@ selphina: i agree she should be the best among the crappy bow users. I wouldn't know though. But she has to use expensive bows to even deal good damage. I sell all my bows for gold

I'm still wondering why machua, trewd, and dalshin are still above the awesome prepromotes the game gives you though, i can try to argue why xavier, delmudd, amalda, and maybe cya are better than them.

Edited August 10, 2009 by Brighton

[Renall]

Machua and Dalshien at least have the Manster prison break chapters, and they're pretty decent in those (and you can't really afford to be picky in those chapters about who you use). Dalsh has some fine-ass Axe rank too.

[Maou]

Machua and Dalshien at least have the Manster prison break chapters, and they're pretty decent in those (and you can't really afford to be picky in those chapters about who you use). Dalsh has some fine-ass Axe rank too.

Even with that great axe rank, dalshin is still best used with the brave axe which is only D rank. Nonetheless, dalshin is pretty helpful when wielding it.

[Renall]

Well, having a higher rank in this game is always extremely helpful as it can be a touch hard to raise things. Being at least a D in Axes helps a bunch (this is Machua's problem post-promotion, E Axes). As you said, it lets him wield the Brave, which is all he really wants besides maybe the Hammer. Still, it means he's able to use stolen Battle Axes, Hand Axes, Brighton's Steel Axe, whatever he wants. And then when he promotes, he doesn't have to worry about his Axe rank and can use other weapons, if you're still using him.

[Maou]

Well, having a higher rank in this game is always extremely helpful as it can be a touch hard to raise things. Being at least a D in Axes helps a bunch (this is Machua's problem post-promotion, E Axes). As you said, it lets him wield the Brave, which is all he really wants besides maybe the Hammer. Still, it means he's able to use stolen Battle Axes, Hand Axes, Brighton's Steel Axe, whatever he wants. And then when he promotes, he doesn't have to worry about his Axe rank and can use other weapons, if you're still using him.

Yeah I kinda keep on forgetting how hard it is to raise weapon ranks in this game. IIRC, dalshien starts with B rank axes, which as you said is pretty damn useful.

If this hasn't been done already, then can machuya be moved down? She is completely underwhelming as a fighter (especially after manster), and her promotion hardly changes anything for her as that E axe rank will do almost nothing to help her already mediocre offense.

[grandjackal]

Tell me if I'm hallucinating...

Is it just me? Or do archers gain more exp than usual? I'm playing normal mode, and I have not favored Tanya at all. In fact, been kinda showing Othin, Marty, Dagdar and Halvan a good time, and yet Tanya is on equal levels with them (aside form Dagdar of course).

Do archers have sort of like this promoted staff user in FE6 deal going?

Edited August 13, 2009 by Pretty Boi Wolf

[_____]

I've always found that archers gain EXP pretty slowly. Must be another one of your A Rank Bors things.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Might be a patch issue but after some testing on C1 with the same exact enemy...

Leaf gets 10 EXP hitting an enemy.

Leaf gets 29 EXP killing an enemy.

Tanya gets 15 EXP hitting an enemy.

Tanya gets 43 EXP killing an enemy.

Based on this alone, Tanya gets 1.5x as much EXP as the melee characters, decimals are dropped.

Edited August 13, 2009 by Sirius

[_____]

Wow. Never saw that.

[grandjackal]

Witty of you, Ninji, but I swear! Here, lemme do a test...

Ok, level 7 unit, Tanya killed being level 6. She got 38 exp.

Marty at equal levels kills a level 12 unit. Only gains 32.

I would show video footage, but I have no way else to actually prove this. Can anyone else verify this?

EDIT: Ninja'd by Sirius, thank ya much.

....This won't effect anything though, will it?

Not a patch issue, I'm playing the vanilla and it's just the same.

Edited August 13, 2009 by Pretty Boi Wolf

[_____]

Witty of you, Ninji, but I swear!

Didn't mean it like that. I was being serious.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Witty of you, Ninji, but I swear! Here, lemme do a test...

Ok, level 7 unit, Tanya killed being level 6. She got 38 exp.

Marty at equal levels kills a level 12 unit. Only gains 32.

I would show video footage, but I have no way else to actually prove this. Can anyone else verify this?

EDIT: Ninja'd by Sirius, thank ya much.

....This won't effect anything though, will it?

Not a patch issue, I'm playing the vanilla and it's just the same.

Hardly, it just means the few archers in this game don't have it as bad as the terrible ones in the other game. Competent Melee units will still get a lead.

Edited August 13, 2009 by Sirius

[grandjackal]

Witty of you, Ninji, but I swear!

Didn't mean it like that. I was being serious.

Sorry if I sounded angry, I meant it as in "I swear, I'm not making it up, or I'm seeing things and I'm worried about the fact I'm now hallucinating" deal.

...Boris is another can of worms then ;;>>

@Sirius, I know melee units will still get the lead, was just curious is all.

Edited August 13, 2009 by Pretty Boi Wolf

[_____]

A better question would be whether it effects Bow Knights as well. If so, Robert > Alva and Kein is even more justified.

[Renall]

If this hasn't been done already, then can machuya be moved down? She is completely underwhelming as a fighter (especially after manster), and her promotion hardly changes anything for her as that E axe rank will do almost nothing to help her already mediocre offense.

I almost feel like she's been beaten up enough. She's dropped considerably from where she first was. She's not that bad because her contribution during the Manster chapters is essentially positive; she has competitive durability and is all but guaranteed to double. She should be capable of using the Killer Sword or a Rapier too. You have to use her, and she's fine, and then you can drop her afterward. That's really not so bad, is it? Some units are no use at all.

EDIT: By the way, there are two Killers in the Manster chapters. Shiva has one from 2x that Leaf can bring in, and the Swordmaster who appears in the ch5 arena has one. It's only 7 Wt; Lifis (Rifis? I'm starting to think his name was meant to be "Rufus") has 7 BLD as his base, so he ought to be able to jack it by the time it shows up.

Edited August 13, 2009 by Renall

[Dr. Tarrasque]

A better question would be whether it effects Bow Knights as well. If so, Robert > Alva and Kein is even more justified.

If mounted: Melee EXP x 1

If unmounted: Melee EXP x 1.5

@Renall: Lifis has 6 BLD as his base.

Edited August 13, 2009 by Sirius

[Renall]

A better question would be whether it effects Bow Knights as well. If so, Robert > Alva and Kein is even more justified.

If mounted: Melee EXP x 1

If unmounted: Melee EXP x 1.5

@Renall: Lifis has 6 BLD as his base.

So basically, don't mount Robert or Selfina unless you need to and they gain more exp that way. I wonder if that can salvage either of them.

And it's academic as his BLD should rise at least 2 points. On averages it may or may not, but if it does it's available and if it doesn't you can capture the Swordmaster with Brighton I think. I'm only noting it because the Killer Sword is particularly common during those chapters; there's two and then Shiva brings another in ch7. Fergus pretty much has a god-given right to one of them since Karin is forced around to support him, but giving the other one to Machua seems fair (Brighton doesn't need it, Lifis and Lara are busy, Leaf still has his Light Sword, Fergus is using one + the Brave and Fire). There's a chance she'll Ambush-crit and kill someone off without taking damage that way.