Heroes: May & June Event Calendar!

The previous calendar has now run its course, but Fire Emblem Heroes was kind enough to share the next May & June Event Calendar with us! Check it out here:

UPDATE: Heroes updated this calendar on 14 May to correct one of the banner titles. The calendar above, and the text listing below, have since been updated to reflect the correction.

The calendar gives us dates and hints towards a bunch of upcoming banners and events. Most interestingly, a new set of Special Heroes will be releasing on 21 May! It was around this time last year that we got the first Bridal Blessings summoning event, so these new heroes may be similar. Perhaps we’ll finally get matching grooms?

We also have many large events coming up, including a new Tap Battle on Monday, Tempest Trials+ starting on the 25th, and more. Additionally, some events hint at other happenings, like the “New Power” banner that starts on 10 June, which may indicate another Weapon Refinery update before then.

Scroll further down for a full text breakdown of all upcoming events and banners. It’s going to be an exciting next month in Heroes!

May & June Event Calendar:
Summoning Focuses:
  • New Power: 16~26 May
  • Special Heroes: 21 May ~ 20 Jun
  • Tempest Trials+: 22 May ~ 3 Jun
  • Heroes with Stance Skills: 27 May ~ 9 Jun
  • Legendary Hero Event: 30 May ~ 6 Jun
  • Bound Hero Battle: 5~11 Jun
  • New Heroes: 8~20 Jun
  • New Power: 10~22 Jun
Special Maps & Events:
  • Illusory Dungeon: Sanctuary of the Mages: 12 May ~ 10 Jun
  • Grand Hero Battle: Julius: 14~22 May
  • Grand Conquests: 17~22 May
  • BHB Revival: Amelia & Tana: 23~29 May
  • Tempest Trials+: Loki’s Flames: 25 May ~ 3 Jun
  • Voting Gauntlet: 1~6 Jun
  • Bound Hero Battle: Seliph & Julia: 5~11 Jun
  • Special Maps: Four Heroes: 8~21 Jun
New Quests:
  • Weapon Workout Quests: 18~31 May
  • Heroes & Legends Quests: 3~16 June
Log-In Bonuses:
  • Special Heroes Bonus: 21 May ~ 4 Jun
  • Tempest Trials Bonus: 22 May ~ 3 Jun
  • Voting Gauntlet Bonus: 29 May ~ 11 Jun
  • New Heroes Celebration Bonus: 8~20 Jun
Special Promos:
  • June Special Orb Promo: 8~21 Jun
About the Author: Kirie
Fire Emblem Cipher & Heroes News Editor
  • Sisyphe

    I realized I pull pretty much exclusively on Legendary Hero Banners now, though I clearly won’t be as well off as I was for the last one. New heroes (and special heroes) are enticing too, but the odds are so poor I haven’t bothered. Still, I know we’ll get some incredibly broken Laguz lords eventually, and I am going to unload when we do.

    • Diovani Estivalet

      Me too. I would love to get some New brides, and maybe grooms, but I am with zero orbs and I need to get every single orb for the Legendary Banner. I will probably try the Special banner after the Legendary Banner.

    • Shenai

      Somehow the last Legendary banner was very unappealing for me personally. So I didn’t really spend much of anything on it. Ended up with a Shigure, who I already had. Weirdly I did try to get the new archer Hinoka and had no luck, but on the new banner I managed to get Ishtar reasonably easily at 3.25% and then took the 5th orb which was colorless just because it was the cheapest and there she was… Kinshi Knight Hinoka… oh the irony. Well, can’t complain though. And I did get the new Shigure, and though I don’t really need him (there were no colorless orbs in that round) I have to admit he is very lovely. Will try to get Lene, and then save orbs for all that may be coming.

      • Sisyphe

        I think you really have to be okay with 2-3 or the units for the color you’re pulling to make it worth a shot. I pulled Henry, two Jakobs, Lyn, Genny, and three Vikes (wasn’t trying for red) in 300 orbs, for instance, as I try to build a competitive armor team.

        Glad you got Hinoka though — that’s really lucky — and Ishtar scares me to death

        • Shenai

          That’s still a good haul though! I love my VL Ike and Jakob’s good when built well. Don’t have the rest.
          This time I had most of the units in the banner and not a lot of interest in the ones I didn’t.
          Good luck with that armor team. I’m currently trying to make Jakob, Tharja, Robin and Grima work as an armor team. But it’s experimental. I used to run something like Amelia, BK, Effie and Hector. I haven’t really found something that works for me yet. I’ll continue switching units in and out and rounding out their skillsets. Still not armor’s greatest fan due to the movement restrictions.

          Thanks, it was. Just felt ironic after trying on her banner and failing. I’ll test her out over the weekend. But her stats + skillset seem pretty insane for sure. Mine’s -Def/+Res so that’s not bad. All the more reason to bring a high res green unit… If only there was one dealing physical damage… Wait, is that what green bow Lyn was for? Though her res isn’t _that_ high. A green dragon with a DC breath weapon will also work ๐Ÿ™‚
          Or just don’t let her initiate, her defense is like paper.

          • Sisyphe

            My armors up until this point had been BK, Effie (Brave with Armored Boots), Hector, and Sheena. I’ve been running Hrnry and Grima as the greens now, and running a potent second line of Arden, Eliwood, Hector, and Jakob. But armors haven’t really been working out for me either, also because of the movement. I’ve just seen some very potent teams in arena and I’ve been trying to get those orbs from the GHB quests. Your group seems pretty ideal to me. Robin has March and Tharja breaks so many matchups. There’s definitely some balance between ranged armors and arnors with DC to find. I kind of wonder if going all armor mages might be the best.

            I really underestimated Vike, and all mine are +DEF, but I don’t need 4. I’m thinking of giving Warding Breath to a bunch of dragons, but I don’t have any of the dragon buffs but Kana’s.

            I tell myself Ishtar can’t be as scary as Reinhardt, with less movement and no brave tome, but I’m not sure I believe it.

          • Shenai

            Henry and Grima is nice. I’d probably keep BK if Arden is your alternative. I’ve not really used Eliwood much yet so I don’t know how well he does.
            I actually have a couple other nice armors around but I can’t seem to find a really good combination of them. Too many greens especially. I think my problem is finding proper synergy between what I have.
            With two armor march units it becomes ok but at the same time you’re giving up two C-slots in which you could have armor buffs.

            Robin, I love Robin, more than Tharja even. He has never let me down. But he’s neither ranged nor has DC so I keep thinking I should maybe replace him (and I don’t have a DC to put on him nor do I really want to).

            I’m using the neutral VL Ike, since my other one was -Def. He’s fine, and my Raven’s best buddy *g*
            I’ve had a hard time finding a home for that one Warding Breath I have now. I was considering Grima, but then I had a surprise Fjorm and put Atk/Def Bond on him instead. Now I still don’t know where to put it.

            I don’t think she will be, but then again… maybe she will… you’ll need a really fast green at the very least? I think I’ll try with Raven, Nino and my TA raven Inigo (he is +Spd and +4). Got anything green, with TA or fast or high res or all of the above? Although I think you may need physical damage to deal with her properly. Actually Hector might be a good counter. Grima too.

          • Sisyphe

            Arden has worked out really well for me on that squad, because with the Brave Sword, Jakob’s Hone buff, and Hector and Eliwood’s Goad buffs, he destroys everything on player phase, especially because will quad and has Ignis. So he might actually literally kill everything on initiation. But he has the same problems we’ve been talking about: he’s exclusively a player phase unit, has no DC or range, and has that one move, so I usually keep the Black Knight on my first armor line.

            Robin is really tough to kill. Brazen Atk/Spd seems awesome. Eliwood is probably similar, except he’s more enemy phase. He’s got a 52/52/35/29/29 spread with Spd refine pre-Fire Boost and I run QR and the Close Def seal on him. Really powerful, but with all the issues of the single-range, single-move, no DC armors.

            I think Warding Breath can go on any unit that would take Steady Breath but has the Res or inclination to counter mages. That’s what led me to think dragons, since they have good Res and Lightning Breath. I believe Warding Breath and Vengeful Fighter are redundant, so I’m glad you didn’t end up doing that (unless you run Bold Grima)

            I’m not too concerned about Ishtar if I can hit her on player phase. But I don’t know the list of units that could tank her and counter her at this point. I suspect that Hector definitely can, and Grima probably can as well. I have about 5-6 TA Gronnraven users because of the Reinhardt/Lyn meta, but I will have to see how they stack up. I prefer to run Micaiah, Sothe, Axura, and Genny in arena, and I’m not bored of them yet, so I don’t want to make any changes yet.

          • Shenai

            You definitely have a point. I’ve just had zero fun even just training him up XD Armor movement but purely player phase just seems very tedious to me.

            I’ve got Lance Breaker on him and I’ve never looked back. Brazen Atk/Spd is great. He’s definitely mixed phase. Tannenboom gives an EP buff, but he hardly needs it, so he’s fine in PP too.
            Eliwood’s really nice too, but I’ve not actually tried him in an armor team so far. My Robin’s stats are very similar. I had +HP – Spd, not ideal but eh. 50/52/34/35/25. With Brazen Atk/Spd active and in enemy phase with the Tannenboom it gets to 50/62/43/37/27, so that’s really nice before buffs. (My Tanneboom has +Spd because of the bane)

            Dragons are definitely a consideration. We’ll see. I’m holding on to it for now.
            If I ever have an extra Bold Fighter I may end up giving it to Grima.

            Raven can bait her. At least mine can. Of course that means he still has to kill her in player phase.
            Nino definitely works. So bunny Sharena or any green mage with a similar statline probably works as well, despite Ishtar’s high res. Grima will absolutely kill her easily since the breath weapon has adaptive damage and will hit her defense. He’s got the HP pool and res to tank her np.
            If you’ve got a high res high atk blue mage with blue tomebreaker, may also work. A green mage with TA. Felicia, Innes, might work. I don’t know, I think any Reinhardt counter should at least not die to her when baiting.
            Of your list depending on the sets and IVs I suspect Micaiah or PA Azura could work. Although Micaiah is slow. But I have no experience with her, don’t have one.

            I’m still running VL Ike, Raven, Inigo and Fjorm ๐Ÿ™‚ well, with changing one out for arena season.

          • Sisyphe

            Oh I definitely agree. Arden is not a first-team armor unit. I find I can only play with enemy phase armors, since I pretty much expect enemies to come to me before I get to them, and with everyone pivoting, I can’t get them out of the way like I can with my horses. Suffice it to say, I’m a mess with armors. At least Robin himself carries March, so he’s almost always moving, and strong enough to initiate.

            I’m holding off on dragons. They aren’t a unit type for quests, and I will probably never get all the buffs since they’re all locked behind 5* units exclusively. Much like armors, I’m not even sure of the ideal buff combination.

            I’m very confident Azura can tank Ishtar and kill her on player phase. I’m less confident that that is a sound strategy. So really when I say I’m afraid of her, I mean that I’m not confident Micaiah can tank or kill her. My Micaiah is +DEF/-ATK of all things, but she is S supported by Sothe (naturally) who still carries his Spur Atk/Spd as well as Drive Atk. With Azura’s Drive Spd, she gets up to about 57/39 Atk/Spd, which is still not enough to avoid getting doubled. She does carry the QR seal, but with -ATK, you’d be surprised what she doesn’t kill (or maybe not, because it’s -ATK).

            That Vike, Raven, Inigo core seems pretty strong. I might give that a shot, just to mess around with. My Raven is built like yours, but he’s kind of languishing because I can’t use Player Phase units really.

          • Shenai

            I’ve found Swap much more useful with armors than pivot. They prefer to stay together. But without any armor march I can see how that can get really annoying. Player phase armor without that skill seems completely unusable. Robin really is fine on both phases, so I’ll likely keep him for the blue armor slot.

            I don’t have a dragon team either but I have a couple usable dragons, they work well in non-dragon teams too. Though it’s Ninian who gets the most use and that’s mostly because she’s a dancer. Have to say though she’s perfectly capable when she needs to fight for a change.

            She definitely doesn’t seem like the best candidate to go up against Ishtar.
            I’ve had fun playing with mine over the weekend. I finally built a wind blessing team around Gunnthra and I put her on it. It’s an odd team to be sure, Arvis, Felicia, Gunnthra and depending on if I need a physical tank or not, Oboro or Ishtar. But with all that debuffing going on between Valflame, Ploys and Chilling Seal and Felicia’s Plate if needed, Gunnthra hits like a freight train with Blizzard and it works surprisingly well. I didn’t know what to do for the wind blessings for the longest time.

            That’s interesting *g* I really prefer player phase, so I’m happy with him. Though he does enemy phase decently well on the first engagement. Galeforce has saved me so many times in arena. Coupled with his ability to kill most things. Inigo takes care of both Bow Lyn and Reinhardt for me, so I keep him in despite his terrible BST.
            It has become less, but on defense that core still gets me wins, and really, one is enough anyway.
            I’ve got the distant defense seal on my VL Ike and use him as a green mage killer.

          • Sisyphe

            I tried Swap first and wasn’t having much luck, since it doesn’t really move them. Pivot keeps them together and can see them move three spaces at a time. But maybe I just need March to take advantage of it.

            Grima is actually my only dragon, so I’m a long-way away. I should try to mess around with my blessing teams. I just kind of put them together randomly. Ephraim and Vike work with anybody, doesn’t seem to care much either, and my Lyn is -SPD, so I think there’s no saving that. I might’ve at least put some different move types with Ike or some horses with Ephraim, but I did not.

            My crew is really good on offense, because Genny can crowd control and kill just about anybody with dancer support and Sothe kills everybody, especially with his buff/debuff. Micaiah either does nothing or everything, obviously, depending on team composition. It does look like I’m dropping into Tier 17 with the new update, which I’m not at all pleased with.

  • MetalGear Lamia

    I guess they’ll be old bride vs new bride which I’m fine with!

    • Diovani Estivalet

      The new TT+ will happens during the seasonal banner. Maybe, like what happened with the New Year banner (Corrin) and the Love Abound banner (Eliwood), the TT reward can be a seasonal unit.
      Also, with the constant discussions between Masked Marth and Loki in Tempest Trials, Masked Marth could return as a TT reward again, specially now the unit received the Sealed Falchion in the refinery.

      • MetalGear Lamia

        Yeah I see this happening

      • 100%B-Type

        Yes, Masked Marth and Loki are somewhat like a iconic duo in TT+.
        At least this Marth alternate has a place were he can be.

        • Which is really funny, when you think about it, considering Loki’s been a thing for maybe five or six months tops while Merth has been with TTs since the first one. Who would have guessed, right?

  • Sofa Man

    No more bridal banners I’m so sick of Waifu Emblem.

    • Diovani Estivalet

      I am hoping for grooms this time… at least 2 of them… maybe Groom Marth.

    • speedster

      I hope I don’t come off as rude, but you could just ignore the banner and focus on the other ones at that are out at that time.

      • Sofa Man

        It’s not about my orb count or focus. I don’t want them in the game at all. Every character they make takes time, energy, effort, and money, all of which is better spent on other units. Particularly ones that aren’t already in the game.

        • Morgan Rodgers

          Every character they make results in $$$, at least some of which goes to making the next characters. (I agree I hate the bridal banners, beach banners, valentine banners… I would love all that fanservice to go away, but it is making IS money so it is what it is.)

          • Sofa Man

            Oh absolutely. But their reputation also had monetary value to them. So if consumers like me complain about it, that can contribute to their discontinuation.

            I always send feedback, too. Gotta do what you can!

          • speedster

            Eh, it’s only something like non-seasonal alts and Lyn that gets to IS’s attention. Seasonals make a lot of money for IS and make many people happy for being fanservicey. I don’t see them abandoning this practice as abandoning it could have a negative effect for a majority of the whales

          • Sisyphe

            I like alts generally, because it provides an opportunity to imagine the characters living their lives. I loved Love Abounds because it was really sweet imagining the Elibe cast in life after Blazing Blade, and it wasn’t fan service-y.

          • Sofa Man

            My problem is not with alts, broadly, it’s with this shitty waifu banner. This isn’t imagining characters in their universe, it’s imagining them married to you and it’s creepy as hell.

          • Sisyphe

            I mean, I don’t disagree. I’m just saying they have options for alts if they want to explore them. I’m more fine with Bride Caeda than Bride Cordelia for instance, and a marriage banner that pairs brides and grooms could be cute.

            Regardless, I don’t think there’s much to gain from complaining about it publically. It just aggravates certain parts of the fandom and welcomes charges of “elitism”, whatever that means

          • Sofa Man

            You’re right, Bride Caeda pretty good. If they wanted to tailor the banner to be actual brides, I’d be way more okay with it.

            And yeah haha elitism. I don’t really care what they say. They’re free to get mad at me and say whatever they want. But I think if more people with my opinion spoke up, they’d be a larger percentage of the playerbase (or potential playerbase) than most people realize. Plus, it costs me nothing and it’s kinda fun. I get interactions like this to remind me about Bride Caeda. I value that.

        • speedster

          it’s a necessary evil if you ask me. besides, they’re not that frequent.
          either you have all of the characters come into the game without any seasonal which results in the lifespan of the game being much shorter or you prolong the game’s lifespan by introducing reskins
          i don’t like some of the stuff IS does, but there are certain things you can’t just change

          • Sofa Man

            It is in no way necessary. I put emphasis on new units, but there’s a lot of other things they could do. Not all seasonals are bad. It’s just this banner and I’m also not a fan of summer, but I’m more lenient on it. But all these alts that have been on regular banners could have been here instead. Or do more.

          • speedster

            It’s probably just a popular trend among gatcha games so I guess that’s where they started off with seasonals. Of course IS is bearing in mind that they need to prolong the game’s lifespan

    • MetalGear Lamia

      Too freaking bad its making LOTS of money and has a higher broad audience appeal quit whining….

      • Sofa Man

        Are there stats out on which banners make more money for them? I’d love to see them.

        Also, it’s in my best interest to whine, so I’m gonna keep doing it. Just like it’s in your best interest to hump your body pillow to pretend you’re not a virgin

        • MetalGear Lamia

          Oh please piss off you elitist cuck no one give AF about your whining I’ll enjoy more popular waifu appeal and see toxic heaps like you cry!

          • Sofa Man

            I don’t know how hating a specific seasonal banner makes me elitist, but I’m being nice to the other people who responded to me. They seem nice.

            You don’t.

          • Pit

            I actually don’t care about the Waifu myself.
            Only the immature horny brats on here who can’t fap at night are using this as an excuse to keep the Fire Emblem series going, why because they don’t give a shit about the true essence of Fire Emblem and that is the story and the characters. Sex appeal isn’t the only money milking cow in the market you know? If you want Waifus, there’s pornhub. Go there. We want diverse number of characters that is anything but Awakening and Fates 24/7.

          • Fallen Crow

            I care about him… I will always love him…

        • Fallen Crow

          Whatโ€™s wrong with being a virgin ๐Ÿ™

          • Sofa Man

            Nothing but I felt it added to the main focus of the joke: humping a body pillow.

          • Fallen Crow

            Bless

          • speedster

            nothing. just a cat fight going on here

      • Splatoo Blemier

        Just ignore this guy….. toxic guys like him are just the minority to not care for that moan and whine ALL the time it does show the very bad side of the western fanbase which they are not fans to begin with…

        • Sofa Man

          Okay you have a good point but he’s also really funny so I’m torn.

        • MetalGear Lamia

          All taken care of *ignored* and just a laughable afterthought like most toxic dung under my shoe moving on!

  • Familyplayer

    I sure love such interesting outfits such as *insert character here* with a dress or suit on /s. Really makes me appreciate good design like in Love Abounds

  • mrkisukes

    Groom Benny to match Bridal Charlotte, that’s what I want. Oh and I guess a Marth one too but at this point it’s become a meme that he’ll never get an alt.

    • Diovani Estivalet

      That would be a good idea, having grooms matching the brides from the other banner. Benny for Charlotte, Marth for Caeda, Eliwood or Hector for Lyn and any Awakening character who is not Chrom for Cordelia.

      This is something I never understood. We can’t make Chrom and Cordelia a couple, but Olivia, who is recruitable in the final chapter of Part 1, can be Chrom’s wife.

      • Shenai

        I would love groom Eliwood, though I never shipped him with Lyn. Groom Florina? XD That would be fun.

        I guess Chrom realized she had him so far up on a pedestal he’d better stay away. Nothing against Cordelia but that archetype is kind of terrible? And apparently some people are into the unrequited love thing. *shrugs*
        I guess Olivia was put in that way as some kind of failsafe? If you’d already married off the other candidates.

        • Sisyphe

          It’s also just really funny to pair Olivia and Chrom. Cordelia isn’t really much of a character outside of unexplained love for Chrom (he’s pretty, I’ll admit, but he’s not that pretty). At least Catria was and continued to be a complete person.

          I never got enough of a sense of Lyn’s personally to have a good ship for her. Rath maybe? Otherwise, Fiorina is probably best.

          • Shenai

            Whatever she seems in him is not who he is so it’s a good thing that wasn’t possible (for both of them)… can’t explain her fixation any other way. Olivia is just fun and cute and sweet all round.
            Your love for Catria is undying *g*
            And I absolutely agree that it’s good to have more to a character’s personality than “is crazy in love with x”.

            I’ve probably mentioned before that I’m not a big fan of Lyn, but her interactions with Florina were some of the few I actually enjoyed. Rath seems fine as a pairing. It was certainly a popular one.
            But Florina in a groom’s outfit? Now there’s an incongruous mental picture with a lot of potential appeal. Might just be me though XD

          • Sisyphe

            Yeah I agree that I don’t like the unrequited love trope. Well, I don’t mind it because it does happen in life, but I like when it is overcome, and people realize they can a good match for themselves somewhere else, as opposed to fantasizing endless about someone who isn’t a good fit.

            I do think Catria is really cool. I hesitate to say I love her in the days of Waifu Emblem, because that’s definitely not what I’m going for… maybe I should cut back…?

            Yeah I did remember that. I have a lot of nostalgia for Lyn as my first Fire Emblem character (she addresses you!) and first FEH pull. I will get emotional any time I hear Wind Across the Plains. But beyond that, I think she’s pretty bland and all-together underwritten in most of the plot. I didn’t feel like I needed any of the Lyn variant, in other words.

            I support Groom Florina. It’s my favorite Lyn pairing anyway (if canonically platonic). I just figure Rath is likely canon, given their backgrounds.

          • Shenai

            It would’ve been a much better character arc if she had moved on from it in the end. But mostly all supports I saw even if you marry her to anyone else she remains fixed on Chrom which is just… unhealthy and very unfair to whoever becomes her husband.
            Yeah, it does happen, but hopefully most times people at least see the real person or eventually move on.

            It’s ok, I think. *g*

            FE 7 was my first one too so I’ve had the same experience, only somehow from the start she didn’t work for me. I used to play with people aroubd and read the dialogue out loud and I hate to say, she was not popular. I can’t even really put my finger on it anymore, I’d have to go back (again).

            Yay!
            I know what you mean with canonically platonic, but I struggle with it somewhat because I thought those two flirted with each other more than either did with anyone else, but ymmv on that *g* Certainly Rath seems like the most plausible canon outcome if it’s anyone from the FE 7 characters.

          • Sisyphe

            Oh I agree. I mean that I don’t mind the trope when the character does outgrow it and is able to move on. Cordelia’s arc, like a lot of Awakening narratives, remains a bit too heavy-handed.

            I’m sympathetic, but I never expected IS to give us any sort of FlorinaxLyn thing, so I defaulted to Rath. I’d love to see it though (I generally dream of an FE7 remake that writes Lyn into the main plot, but that’s an aside. Her narrative is interesting, growing up entirely in Sacae, losing her family, living alone, moving to Caelin for new family, never really fitting into Lycian politics, and then ceding Caelin to Ostia (which would’ve caused a political uproar) and return anonymously to Sacae again. I find that fascinating. It’s just that it happens entirely through the game telling you the sequence and not really letting you interact with the character through the events.

          • Shenai

            I definitely didn’t expect it either, but it would have been amazing. And it seemed like easily Lyn’s most genuine connection to someone.

            If they write her better and give her personality a remake too, I’d be up for it. Well not so much her personality as write her as less stupid? I would really have to go back to give you any specific examples.
            The narrative is definitely not a bad one, but it could’ve been done a lot better.
            I think part of why I dislike Lyn is because she did have a lot of potential but it was squandered entirely.

            Completely unrelated my quest to get Lene has turned somewhat bizarre. I’m not terribly lucky with summoning, but at least I’m usually comparatively lucky enough to get focus units instead of other 5* units most of the time. I do get the occasional pity breaker, but mostly I get focus units. Doesn’t mean it’s the right one but, you know.
            But trying to summon Lene… I’ve got an Alm, Ayra, Gray and Saber so far… and I’m not complaining, really, because they all came pretty easily and except for Alm I didn’t have them, but it is really a bit weird. Gray and Saber unfortunately not great IVs and Ayra a very mixed blessing at -Atk +Spd. But it’s cool.
            We’ll see if anything changes until the banner is over, or if I will continue to pull random red 5* units.

          • Sisyphe

            I didn’t find Lyn particularly stupid, but that might be because I don’t remember doing much of anything as far as decision-making. She’s not really set up to succeed because of how quickly the game moves through her prologue. I wouldn’t have you go back through the game to find examples, but I am kind of curious.

            I pulled Mia, Mathilda, Caeda, and Corrin trying to go for Soleil once, who I did not get, and I pulled Sothe, Blucina, and Tana before getting Micaiah (still a little scarred by that one). I also pulled Morgan-M and Exalt Chrom going for Morgan-F, who I also did not get. I was broken by a -ATK Clair to end that one, but I will be vindicated once I get a +SPD/-HP one, because my +SPD/-HP Caeda is one of my best units and Rhomphaia Clair should be basically the same.

            But anyway, I’d probably whine a little bit if I were you, even though that’s not a bad haul (Saber and Gray should have their rarities dropped, or at least Saber). For what it’s worth, I don’t think the ATK on Ayra will matter too much, since I understand she’s special dependent anyway. I’ll hope you get Lene, though if you’ve already got Ishtar, you’re doing pretty good. I’ve been so snakebitten I can’t imagine pulling for two units on the same banner intentionally.

          • Shenai

            If I remember it was a combination of being headstrong (which is fine) but also incredibly naive and pretty resistant to getting other opinions or following advice from people with more experience in the fields she didn’t know anything about. And some other questionable writing choices. I don’t know, it’s been a very long time since I played the prologue.

            Oh Mia and Caeda have ambushed me too… maybe it’s a red thing, I’m not lucky with them.
            Tana at least is really nice? Well, I guess Mia and Blucina too. And horsie Chrom is so lovely. Not sure what IVs you got but mine is +spd -res (got none of the Morgans) and he’s my favorite red horse now. I built a fire blessing horse emblem team around him and horsie Ephraim. No DC hurts but it works anyway. And with all the dragons lately, having a Falchion on the team is very helpful.
            And ouch on the Clair…
            I’ve never gotten a good Clair or Caeda so those two are benched.

            Gray is -atk… I don’t really see him getting any use. With horsie Chrom around I don’t even need Sword Valor.
            Ayra seems fine for sure. Her special and weapon effect go off speed so +spd is really good. I’ve put Fury on her to mitigate the attack bane and she comes in at a very respectable 41/49/46/34/24. And I also put Fury because she has Desperation and with that kind of speed you’d be a fool not to take advantage of that, that synergy is still great. +Spd really was lucky.

            Thanks and originally I was pretty happy with the prospect of summoning lots of red and blue, recently I was only ever looking for green and what I needed was some fodder from red and blue 4* units. But Ishtar came so easily that now I’m kind of like “but I needed blues” which is completely and utterly ridiculous.

          • Sisyphe

            Hmm I can see it. Naive and headstrong are both ways to describe her, I would say.

            I already had Blucina with better IVs, so that one became aether fodder to Heavy Blade Minerva (purely a passion project). Mia and Tana I just didn’t need. Valter is fine as my defensive flier and I haven’t found any matchup for Mia that I wasn’t already handling with another sword. My Horse Chrom is +SPD/-HP, so he’s fine, but I’m partial to Xander. Chrom is still really good though, and I agree he seems like an obvious match for Ephraim.

            I find I’m mostly looking for good fodder now, of any color really. I’m not really excited by random 5* that will never crack my lineup. I’m even starting to think of 5* in terms of fodder (Bold Fighter and Steady Breath)

          • Shenai

            I’ve had two Minervas by accident now (merged them) and she’s very nice, but I’m sort of clinging to my Cherche *g* 4*+10 because that’s apparently my thing, but with a Brave Axe+ from a pity breaking 5* Raven forever ago. She’s definitely nice, I’ve got a basic set on her. But for now Cherche remains my green flier.
            I’m using Valter too but I think I may switch him out some day soon. I actually have two Tanas with different less than ideal IVs, but I liked both build ideas I had that I couldn’t make up my mind and kept both and just have very different sets on them, one being defensive and the other much more offense minded. Also I somehow really like the FE 8 charas a lot despite it not being my favorite game. Also now that I randomly pulled that flier Shigure, might try him out. But basically I have too many blue flier options, it’s tricky. Red is the color with few options. And I guess green is fairly clearcut as well where fliers are concerned. Mine is Elincia and she’s just a beast.

            Mia only gets outings in Rival Domains/Grand Conquest.
            Oh yeah, +spd is so sweet on him once he gets even a little damaged. As always put Fury and Desperation on him to that end *lalala* With hone cavalry that makes for 48 speed… Chrom has never been so fast.
            Xander, Camus and Cecilia were my horse emblem core for the longest time, and I’ll still use them, but I just really fell in love with horsie Chrom and then, with horsie Ephraim and the defense blessing effect it seemed like a nobrainer to build a new horsie team. My Cecilia (again 4* + 10) is actually +def (she was my first and I never got good IVs) so at an unbuffed 30 defense she actually benefits from that effect. And takes Brave Lyn any day, even without Gronnraven or TA or blessing, just Bowbreaker, no sweat. Just a Gronnblade, not even +, and no buffs against Mulargir, still enough. And imo there’s not really anything in particular for the B slot that would make her better.

            Oh yes, I’ve definitely foddered some 5* units too. And there are many 3 and 4* units I’m happy to get when summoning. Usually I want a specific unit when summoning, be it because of who they are, or sometimes, the kind of unit they are, but I definitely don’t have to have everyone, especially when I already have so many good units to choose from. For example, the green Olwen would’ve been really nice so I’d finally have a green mage cavalry option that could rival my Cecilia, but it wasn’t important enough for me to really go after it and I have no affiliation with the Thracia characters. Meanwhile I did really go after bunny Alfonse… both because he’s adorable and because I really wanted him for that horsie team ๐Ÿ˜‰ Not a lot of good green horses around.
            Now Lene… I just can’t have too many dancers. And I like her design a lot, and she seems to be the tankiest dancer since Ninian, that’s nice, a dancer you can use as a tank in a pinch.

            Wow… I type too much.

          • Sisyphe

            I’ve actually pulled three Minervas, but my first one had the best IVs (+ATK/-HP). The others became LnD fodder. Cherche is simply much better. I’ve got a 5* one, but she’s +ATK. Never disappoints. However, she doesn’t make my first-team fliers either. I prefer Azura and Spring Camilla with TA Raven, QR, and Iote’s Shield seal. Caeda and blade Corrin round it out. That team never loses to anything. It’s the only team I was able to beat Lyn’s Legendary Hero Battle with, despite all the bows.

            After that, Elincia, Firesweep Cordelia, Minerva, and Cherche are the second team. Valter and Tana seem to run better outside of Fliers, but I’m partial to my Def+3, QR, Luna Valter. No sword survives that. But yeah blue really is packed. I want to run Clair, one day dream of building Catria (stop), and like the idea of Brave Lance Est. Plus, Shigure apparently just powercreeps them all anyway.

            I’ve been keeping Chill Def on Chrom for the one-shot damage. Plus, it increases his utility with my other units. He’s tanky enough to take hits and Aether his health back, so I’ve never felt like I needed Desperation. I run Xander, Reinhardt, Cecilia, and Lyn for my horses. I ran horses for most of FE’s life, so I don’t run them much. I assume Chrom, Ephraim, and Elise would form a second team, with maybe Camus or Ursula. Camus is another unit who I had been underestimating. I wanted a new green horse for a while, but they keep adding offensive ones and I’m so used to that slot being defensive. My +ATK TA Cecilia also runs G Tomebreaker, because Nino used to be a thing. I don’t think that’s really necessary anymore, but she one-shots Lyn anyway. Other than that, Frederick is basically Cherche on a horse, but it’s not a good time for melee horses.

            I’ve moved away from dancers generally because of the low BST, but my dancers were always capable fighters because they’re all TA (Ruby Sword Olivia, Sapphire Lance Azura, TA Azura and Inigo). I will probably continue to collect all dancing variants of Azura though. I can’t help it.

            Other than that, I want Morgan still, but she’s dreadful and will never be used if I get her, so I’ve got a list of about seven 3-4* of each color I’m trying to get for fodder, IVs, or merges. Otherwise, I wait for the Laguz lords (or CYL2 units) to break the game.

            I think you commented again below as well, but it’s gone now, FYI

          • Shenai

            Mine is +Atk -HP too ๐Ÿ™‚ I merged because that was the second one and I wanted to keep the skills, although there’s really nothing expensive on her. In retrospect should’ve probably used the first one as fodder as well. Yup, my Cherche is +Atk as well. I run her with Elincia, Valter and summer Corrin. No spring Camilla for me.
            I gave up on beating that map on Infernal.

            Oh man, yes, backup fliers… Minerva, NY Camilla, Halloween Nowi, the two Tanas, Cordelia, Hinoka, Myrrh, Azura, Kagero and now the other Hinoka. I should really consider changing up my flier team just so some other units get used and get some action… I might do it, the Kinshi Knight Hinoka is ridiculous with the movement options for a flier team.
            My Shigure is unfortunately -Spd, which just seems like such a shame when that’s kind of his best stat.

            He doesn’t really need it, no, but it always pairs so well with Fury. And it means I can have him running around at 1HP, taking out foes safely and then eventually triggering Aether. I enjoy it a lot *g* just let the man solo.
            Reinhardt used to be my TT goto (and he was again since he was just a bonus unit). Brave Lyn is really good but maybe it’s my Lyn aversion, I’ve not actually used her that much. When I ran a fourth horse with my old core three it was most often Elise. And yes, I don’t really use the horses much anymore either, been doing it too much in the past. Camus is lovely, I’ve got vantage on mine and he’s just brilliant.

            Bunny Alfonse is pretty defensive. But I did switch his sturdy blow for sturdy stance so… that helped, along with the fire blessing defense buff from Ephraim.
            I usually bait Lyn with my Cecilia. And I used to do that with Xander for Nino. And hey! Nino’s still awesome.

            I’ve tried to make mine capable, but other than the TA Raven Inigo only Ninian is really a unit I’d bring to fight more so than to dance/sing. The others are more “fight in a pinch” for me. Ninian is hard to kill by most things.
            I’ve never managed to get vanilla Azura, and trying to get the PA version left me with Inigo +4 *cough* well, I did then finally get her on the Legendary banner.

          • Sisyphe

            Wow that’s a deep bench of fliers, and I thought I had a lot. And you have a Myrrh! I’m kind of jealous of that. I’ll bet running four ranged fliers is pretty good too. I’m not surprised you’re considering switching out Valter though. Fliers tend to be really aggressive, and I feel like he’s very defensive. He’s a great duelist, but I think he works better without the other fliers. I don’t need a NY Camilla, but I kind of want one, for some reason.

            Even now, I’m still amazed by how strong Reinhardt and Lyn are. My Elise is +HP/-SPD unfortunately, but even with Wrathful Staff and the Dazzling refinement, she’s not quite enough for me. I guess that horses are just so aggressive that she doesn’t have the firepower.

            I love Nino. She will probably be the first unit I 5*+10, once I get a +SPD/-DEF one (I’m using +ATK/-HP now). I don’t see her a lot in the arena now though, certainly not like I did in the early days of FEH.

            I’d be confident in my Olivia’s ability to tank greens, if I needed that. Regular Azura is a little more frail. I wanted her more than any other unit when we started, but by the time I got her, I never had a need for her. I do think PA Azura and NY Azura are perhaps the most versatile units in the game right now, so obviously I’m glad you got the PA Azura in the end. I was wondering about the Inigo+4…

          • Shenai

            I love the FE 8 charas, I definitely needed Myrrh *g* weirdly she hasn’t seen that much action. I should try running four ranged fliers. Not sure it would be a good balance though.
            Actually I prefer having one flier who’s defensive, so I can park them in the way of harm when moving everyone out of the way isn’t possible. That’s why one usually has swap instead of reposition, in this case Valter. I should try this with my defensive Tana but I’ve not finished her build. No Lance Valor and expensive skills means it’s annoying to earn enough SP…
            NY Camilla’s pretty cool ๐Ÿ™‚ I have a Brigade that’s 80% fliers, so at least they sometimes come out to play.

            They are, but at the same time I don’t find it difficult to counter them. Just annoying.
            Elise is mostly along for healing with the other three, and Fortify Cavalry. It keeps the other three going. Since I just apparently love Fury too much she keeps my Cecilia and Camus healthy when needed. And the occasional sweep. Mine’s the reverse of yours, -HP +Spd.

            I should probably start merging her, mine’s still zero merges but has summoner support and is still the one I send out to others ๐Ÿ™‚ Same IVs as yours, but I’m happy with those. It’s true you don’t see her as much, but it also depends what score teams you battle. I do still see her, but not as much. There are just a lot of options these days and well, she’s ranged, low BST.

            Yes, but not blues, especially with the Ruby Sword. I know Olivia’s not terribly frail, but Ninian takes some serious punishment before she folds. So if I’m bringing a lot of frail units I like to pick her as my dancer. She’s 44/45/39/26/30 and well, if I use her to attack gets 44/50/44/31/35 thanks to Light Breath+ ๐Ÿ™‚ which buffs everyone else around the same. So, yeah, as fighters go, she’s the strongest among my dancers.

            PA Azura is certainly the most convenient buffer, but I like using all the dancers. It’s easy to accumulate hero merit apart from the regular convenience. Inigo is by far the one getting the most use though. A green TA Raven dancer can’t be beat for utility in the current meta.

          • Sisyphe

            I’m mostly indifferent to the FE8 characters even though it’s arguably my favorite game and I think it’s a strong cast on the whole. Once I got Lyon, which I never expected, I was pretty set with them. Facing Myrrh is pretty terrifying though, especially if she runs DC over Fury.

            I prefer at least one defensive anchor in all my teams really, but Spring Camilla is really tanky. I spent so much time SP grinding during golden week that I’m pretty much all set. It’s all stamina potions are good for now.

            I would never run Reinhardt and Lyn on a defense team, but Xander and G Tomebreaker Cecilia cover their counters on offense. I would think I would see Nino more, since I’m constantly running low BST teams. I usually struggle to counter her. I apparently thought G Tomebreaker on Celica was necessary at one point.

            I generally don’t count on any unit to tank the color they’re weak to, as a rule, though Ninian has enough HP and SPD to stay upright for sure (yours is also +SPD though). I’d believe she could be the strongest dancer. Generally, I only expect my units to kill this they’re strong against, and that’s worked fine. Although my arena team runs two colorless and in generally fine letting Micaiah tank anything from range that isn’t a Brave Bow, so maybe not.

            I like that Azura’s buffs, and Drive Spd, can make most units seem viable, so she unlocks the most versatility to me. But Inigo definitely has the best matchups

          • Shenai

            Interesting ๐Ÿ™‚ before FE 15 and Hidari, Wada Sachiko’s FE 8 designs were by far my favorites. I also just really like most of the charas. Would absolutely love to get Tethys for example. And Glen… but that’s probably really never going to happen. Lots of FE 7 charas I’d still love to see too.
            Ah, so like mine then *cough* not that she’s likely to turn up on an arena defense team.

            Cherche has high defense, but she’s so slow she doesn’t work well for that. So Valter it is, or in future maybe Tana or Shigure. I guess I wasn’t playing that much in golden week, though I did finish some builds that badly needed SP.

            Shouldn’t Xander counter her just fine with a bit of horse buffing going on? Though your current team maybe doesn’t have a direct Nino counter. This is why I don’t like running teams without at least one unit of each color.
            For VL Ike Nino’s easy prey.

            I don’t really do that either, since it seems silly, but from a really good tank I expect them to be able to take at least one hit from the color they’re weak to, though not defeat that unit. And mostly in the stat they’re better in, so defense or resistance, respectively. Ninian in that regard can be a last resort if I messed up and need protection for someone else for one turn. Mine is +Atk -HP actually, but the refine is +spd.

            Inigo’s the only one who currently has Hero Merit maxed out. Nino’s close behind ๐Ÿ˜‰

          • Sisyphe

            I should amend that. I’m not indifferent to the FE8 cast. I do like them, but they’re probably one of my least favorite, if more balanced casts. There isn’t really anyone there I don’t like: Lyon is my all time favorite, and I’ve was clamoring for Glen as our first sword wyvern for a long time. Valter is Valter, and Knoll is a favorite too. I could go on. It’s a good group. It just doesn’t have too many standouts for me, after Lyon.

            FE15 definitely has my favorite art (I KNOW I’ve been vocal about that) and I have a lot of favorites in that cast (Whitewings, Python, Lukas, Genny, Sonya, Saber). Of course, the Tellius cast is a different animal entirely — it’s huge, with so many exceptional characters, and so few duds. I think highly of the FE7 bunch too.

            Cherche, in my experience, is made of glass, even with her HP and DEF. I try not to let anything touch her. I built two Jakobs and Henry during Golden Week, and filled most of the whole in my builds. It was…a lot.

            I don’t know why I didn’t just have Xander kill Nino. I don’t remember anymore. Sothe has the range and power to one-shot Nino, which is usually how I deal with her. Otherwise, Genny can two-shot her, if somehow that matchup happens.

            I’m surprised you’ve only got one unit with maxed Hero Merit. Xander, Reinhardt, Cecilia, Brave Lyn, Genny, and PA Azura are all maxed for me, and Sothe and Micaiah aren’t far behind. But yeah, it’s mostly dancers and healers after that, and anyone who’s ever been a part of a Tempest Trial bonus.

          • Shenai

            Ephraim is one of my all time favorite FE charas, couldn’t even really tell you why. I really like Innes too and L’Arachel. Rarely have I found a character as hilarious as her. I guess of the ones still missing I’d most like Forde, Tethys and Gerik from the player side. And otherwise Glen for sure. Ha, a fellow Glen fan, what a rare thing.
            All in all I guess FE 7 has my favorite cast.

            I generally agree, only I always stumble over the boob plates. Not because it’s offensive or anything, just because it’s nonsensical as armor goes (the shape, it’s terrible for protection) so in that regard I still prefer FE 8.
            Oh yes, Python and Lukas. I’m always a little sad that most of the FE 15 charas aren’t very strong in heroes… Mathilda and Clair would clear whole maps for me easily.

            I never had the chance to play the Tellius games, so I don’t have any particular attachment. I know some of the story and characters though and I’d really love to play one day.

            I’ll only let her face slow blue physical units if I really need it. The speed makes her very vulnerable, but with a Fortify Fliers, in this situation the damage may well be down to single digits per hit.
            I probably should’ve taken advantage of the bonus more… I just find the SP grinding so tedius. Especially without Lance Valor for lance units. Although I did finish my Oboro. And Jakob most of the way, what an expensive build…

            Maybe I just spread it around a lot? I’m not sure *g* it’s probably a bit of an odd list. See, my Brave Lyn only has 780 Hero Merit, told you I don’t use her much, despite being very good. PA Azura is still playing catchup since I haven’t had her as long.
            There are definitely lots of units I should be using more. But for example I don’t like arena assault at all so I usually only do that once a week for the rewards.

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/24a51e687458e5961042115eef4cedaedcba908a9ed99ec454e4aa6d25137e68.png

          • Sisyphe

            I guess it’s my turn to complain that my comment didn’t stick. A shame too, it was an obnoxiously long one.

            Let’s see. I don’t think much of Ephraim more than other lords. He still seems like that righteous noble type to me, which is funny because I think they probably wanted to portray him more…roughly? You meet him, and he’s talking about leaving his throne and touring the continent as a mercenary, but I never really believed that, based on his personality. He doesn’t have the roughness or battle-thirst that Hector or Ike talk about. He’s actually pretty mellow in his supports as well. His conversation with Lyon in the final fight always stood out to me though. It’s really one of the few times I felt he emoted unexpectedly:

            Lyon: Tell me, Ephraim: do I look like Iโ€™ve grown stronger? The last time we dueled, I was too weak to test you. Why, I was so weak, I even lost to Eirikaโ€ฆ
            Ephraim: โ€ฆโ€ฆ
            Lyon: Iโ€™ve sacrificed the lives of many good people. Iโ€™ve committed many unforgivable sins. The caring heart that I once possessed died long agoโ€ฆ And Iโ€™ve grown stronger because of it. Iโ€™ve grown strong enough to defeat even you, Ephraim.
            Ephraim: โ€ฆNo, you havenโ€™t. Youโ€™re still no match for me. You were never one for combat. Itโ€™s not in you. You should never have chosen this path.
            Lyon: โ€ฆโ€ฆ
            Ephraim: โ€ฆโ€ฆHere I come, Lyon.

            I always found equal parts contempt and sadness in that exchange, not the kind of righteous anger we tend to associate with our lords.

            I’ve always liked Glen and what they did with his character as it related to Valter and Cormag. And I prefer him much more to Selena. I’m not too much of a fan of the blindly loyal vassal archetype. Other than that, Knoll, Duessel, and Joshua are among my favorites. Gerik and his band are pretty good too, certainly.

            Scorched Sand might be my favorite map in Fire Emblem. It’s such a good set piece in Eirika’s route: being surrounded in the desert immediately following what happened in Chapter 14, Ephraim rescuing you, and the better, in my opinion, of the JoshuaxCaellach and CormagxValter duel conversations.

            I’m pretty sure I relied almost exclusively on Alm, Kliff, Gray, and the three healers for Alm’s route. I hardly use Mathilda and Clair at all, interestingly. I still bet Clair is really good in Heroes now, based on how good Caeda is for me.

            I definitely see your point about the chestplates, though they’re not as egregious in 15 as in other games we might mention. Can’t fault you for that though. I usually take more issue with the skirts, but at least those aren’t completely pointless.

            I really hope you get the chance to play the Tellius games. They’re a completely different animal from the rest of the series: heavy, ambitious, political narratives with millions of characters and a ton of development. People make a lot of Ike/Guts/Berserk jokes, but it’s pretty accurate. The setting could be something out of Berserk, with less violence and more racism. Allegedly, IS got a lot of the material for the Tellius games from notes that Kaga left, which would explain how the series’ writing went from good to excellent to fanfic so quickly. In any way case, it’s a shame the games are on older consoles and cost probably around $100 each. I consider Tellius the high water mark of the series, and probably the standard it should strive for, but I’d be perfectly happy to get games styled after the GBA titles if they look like 15.

            *exhale* …and you said YOU type a lot (and this isn’t even as long as what I wrote the first time, though I didn’t post the whole conversation the first time).

            Anyway, it does look like my merit list is a little more top-heavy, but not too much:

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/87387c07f745e6e13162e286ffb1ac677d99875cd39de9a81fcdb52bc3fa4ad3.png

          • Sisyphe

            Ugh you know my response here has been deleted two times now. Though, to be fair, it was obnoxiously long the first time, and I think it got longer the second time.

            To try again, Ephraim kind of felt as bland as any of the other lords to me. We’re told he’s rough around the edges, a tactical genius, isn’t particularly studious, and that he wants to give up the throne to travel as a mercenary, but when we meet him, he’s still the consummate gentleman: polite with bits of righteous anger where expected. I will say that I’m quite fond of his final battle conversation with Lyon. That mixture of contempt and sadness is one of the rare times we see him emote unpredictably.

            I think my favorites, aside, of course, from Lyon, my all-time favorite, are Knoll, Duessel, and Joshua, but Gerik’s band is pretty cool too, as are Vanessa and Innes. Like I said, it’s a cast, it just doesn’t have a ton of my absolute favorites. 7 has a great cast, both among its heroes and its villains.

            I really hope you get the chance to play the Tellius games. They’re so different. They play the same, but the maps are mostly vehicles for a heavy, ambitious, political narrative with a million characters that is definitely unique in the series. I’ve heard they got a lot of the assets from Kaga’s leftover notes, which explains how the writing of the series went from good, to excellent to fanfic between 7 and 14.

            I definitely see your point about the chestplates, though they aren’t as bad as they are in some of the games I could mention. I think I’ve said this, but the skirts confuse me more. At least the chestplates are trying to look like armor, even if they are less functional.

            My merit list seems a little more top-heavy than yours, but not too much I think: https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/87387c07f745e6e13162e286ffb1ac677d99875cd39de9a81fcdb52bc3fa4ad3.png

            This is probably half as long as the deleted posts. I too can type a lot

          • Shenai

            Sorry about that.

            I guess with him it always felt something like a front? He always felt very disconnected to me, from his life and those interactions that were political and official. The only time it felt like he was really there was with certain people, like Myrrh, or when he didn’t have to fulfil his princely duties or in battle. I don’t know, I may well be projecting XD He plays the role he’s given because he feels a certain responsibility but I always got the feeling that he was pretty unhappy in that role and that it was ill-fitting to him. And I cannot recalling him ever smiling in the whole game. Ever. I actually found the heroes artwork pretty disturbing, when he’s smiling during the battle animation.

            I think it came out well with Lyon. I also think it came out well with Innes, forever sad they didn’t have a support conversation. Ephraim to me seemed to have preferred to be Innes’ friend too, since as a fellow prince he’d be one of the few to treat him as an equal not his status but Innes the silly bugger was obsessed with that rivalry ^^;;
            I don’t know, maybe it’s just me XD but I always really liked Ephraim.
            What you say that it’s one of the few times we see him emote (unpredictably) is probably kind of what I mean. He’s very distant, it felt more like disassociation to me than blandness. A failure to connect emotionally.

            Joshua is certainly very fun and Duessel is a very interesting character with very good supports. I miss those kind of supports, that add depth to the characters and in most cases not romantic in nature. Knoll somehow hasn’t left a very deep impression. I liked Syrene, Neimi and Natasha too.
            I agree that 7 is fantastic. It and its characters are still my favorites.

            I hope so too ๐Ÿ™‚ they seem amazing. The writing really isn’t what it’s used to be. But don’t go dissing on fanfic XD I’ve read tons of fanfic that was better than any writing I’ve seen in Fire Emblem. Well, I guess it depends a lot on the fandom. Anime/manga/game fanfic in my experience is typically terrible, not across the board, but in its majority. But that would start a whole other discussion *g*

            I’m pretty ok with the skirts for the most part. At least they afford a lot of freedom of movement. If the plates weren’t so ridiculously molded that’d be fine. Oh well.

            It’s interesting to see how usage and favorite units differ between players. Only makes it clear that you don’t really need specific units but that many can be made to work ๐Ÿ™‚ 7 of these I don’t have at all *g*

          • Shenai

            Dug out the notification emails on the email account I usually don’t use, to see what you originally wrote.

            You sort of made my point for me with Ephraim *g* I think if he stays king he has a good chance to end up severely depressed. That was one unhappy young man.

            Glen is awesome, and I don’t think people dislike him, I just don’t think many people paid any attention.
            So it’s not that he’s disliked, he’s just not popular.

            As for Echoes, I always like mobility, so fliers and cavalry have a tendency to get used a lot, as well as Archers. Python and archer Tobin did a lot of the heavy lifting. On Celica’s side, the Whitewings likewise. My Leon was unlucky, but Atlas and the other dreadfighters saw a lot of use as well. Superior movement yay.
            And my Mathilda was blessed with her level ups. By far the strongest I had.
            I always thought Lukas and Forsyth should be turned into cavaliers, what with their color scheme *g* I might yet do it, though I’m done.

            As for liking the series so much without having played Tellius. What can I say, 7 caught my heart and kept it *g*
            I’ve tried playing some of the older ones, but it was always a bit tedious to play in Japanese, what with the kanji. I know there are some fan translations. Maybe I’ll try again. I got some ways into 3 (1) and 6. I never owned a Gamecube nor a Wii so Tellius just wasn’t happening for me. And I’ve always found it odd, from just how compelling they both seemed, that they sold so badly.
            A virtual console version would be absolutely lovely.

            I DO type a lot *g* but it seems you can keep up easily ๐Ÿ˜‰

          • Sisyphe

            Haha which time, I wonder. It got longer somehow as I redrafted it. I went through Ephraim’s support conversations (since I don’t get too many per playthrough, and first, Ephraim and L’arachel is gold, and second, Ephraim and Eirika’s is such a waste to me. We know they’re close already. The game tells us that ad nauseum. But generally, I see your point. Many of the characters remark on how distant he is, and he comes off as pretty irritable in a lot of his conversations (Kyle, Forde, Myrrh, and Tana). I guess it just didn’t finish the narrative arc for me? I mean, we know he becomes king and does fine and that’s the end of it. In fact, the narrative they could’ve used for Ephraim, they ended up using for Joshua. He actually does leave, works as a mercenary, comes back to find his land destroyed, and grows up (though we don’t know how it ends for him either). I would’ve loved to see them spend more time with Ephraim’s character in that case, and let his struggle with what he wants to do with himself play out. A side note, he implies a few times as well that Eirika’s being there with him is the only reason he feels like he can become king at all. I thought their support would’ve been a great time to flesh that out. Instead, like you were getting at, one wonders how happy he is in the end.

            I usually turtle and phalanx my way through Fire Emblem. Everyone stays together, so extra movement doesn’t do much for me. Most of the SoV cast was so redundantly combat-wise that I mostly just used my favorites. I always use a ton of mages. In one of the games, since almost all the mages are female, I end up deploying an army of small girls, which is always a sight.

            Haha I mean, 7 caught my heart and kept it too. I was pretty young when I picked it up, had never played anything like it, and it just somehow caught my eye in the stores. I’ve played through 6 a number of times. It’s kind of boring since they were still ironing out the support system, but some of the maps are fun and it’s got the plot that feels like a fledgling version of what 7 and 8 offer.

            It is the story of Fire Emblem itself that Tellius sold badly. If they hadn’t, its course would be very different. I do like Awakening and Fates, as much as I’m open about bashing them, but I can’t help but wonder what we might’ve gotten instead.

          • Shenai

            All of them ๐Ÿ™‚
            And this time it was my comment that was deleted again…

            I like Duessel’s support with him as well. To me Ephraim has a very strong sense of duty and responsibility but very few real emotional connections with other people, which together with the twin thing explains why he’s so focused on Eirika. He’s probably quite lonely and he’s not good at the things his sister is, she’s the one keeping him level. I never really bought the “thirst for battle” line, to be honest. He sure enjoys a good fight but it felt more like the one duty he has that he actually enjoys because he’s good at it and it’s easy and straightforward. Reckless though, for sure. Well, and he did work fabulously as a one man army for me when I put him on the field.

            Him and L’Arachel is so hilarious, I love that girl. And Ephraim, totally clueless, with Tana, too, or in that case, deliberate misdirection, maybe. Ah Innes… how I wish he had a support with Ephraim, that would’ve been either really interesting or at least really funny.

            Ephraim isn’t a “bad boy”, not in any respect, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t an inner conflict between what is expected of him and what he wants. I don’t know, I may be projecting way too much *lol*
            Again, I found it very telling that he doesn’t smile once in the entire game. I paid real close attention on one playthrough. As for the future… maybe as he grew up (all the lords are quite young) he calmed down? Or maybe starting a family and having more people to feel connected to mellowed him out? I don’t know, I don’t remember if the epilogue stated very much. As for Joshua’s narrative, I don’t think Ephraim’s sense of responsibility would’ve let him truly do that when he was needed at home. Want to run away, but not do it.

            As you can tell, I really like that one too much *cough*

            I guess you must be a good bit younger than me then ๐Ÿ˜€ I was not that young, but I was also not much of a gamer before that. To be fair, that wasn’t FE though, that came still later. And I was a legal adult when I first played 7 in… 2005?

          • Sisyphe

            You know, we probably shouldn’t be surprised that one in every few comments is being deleted as we continue to throw walls of text at each other. Disqus probably did not intend itself to be used this way.

            I think you’ve made a very strong case, and I think it’s supported in the text besides. I guess I balk either because I don’t trust the intentionality of the writers in this case, or maybe because the story doesn’t really engage any of these issues. Both Eliwood and Hector have very clear character growth subplots that play out across their respective stories and through conversations with other characters, some of which are hidden or require multiple playthroughs. Ephraim doesn’t get any of that, and Marth, Roy, Lyn, and Chrom don’t either, which is why I relegate them to the pile of bland lords. Even Eirika gets a little bit of development because the plot and events of Sacred Stones affect her emotionally whereas Ephraim keeps them at a distance.

            I did miss an important piece from Ephraim’s A support with Kyle, where he bluntly says he doesn’t feel affection for people (other than Forde, Kyle, Seth, Duessel, and Eirika) because of how he was raised. It’s interesting to compare that to Eirika and the qualities of hers that are considered laudable. It makes me wonder about how they were raised. When you talk about a potential grown-up version of Ephraim, I can’t help but picture him becoming a Vigarde or Rudolf: great leaders and soldiers whose failures with human relationships ended up doing great harm to their kingdoms and those around them.

            Blazing Blade came out in 2003 actually, or 2004 depending on where you are (doesn’t mean you played it then though), and I remember plucking it off a shelf, so, yeah, I was probably nine. I will never know why I thought it was a good idea for me to pick that game up then, but I will always be quite glad I did.

            One probably *should* play defensively in Fire Emblem and field a diverse army, but somehow, I always end up rolling through the maps with an army of child mages…Fire Emblem as a whole seems to dislike the archer class. There just aren’t many great archers in the series, except in Fates and Radiant Dawn. In Radiant Dawn, the archer promotion can attack from three spaces away and two of your archers have just broken stats. It’s ridiculous.

            I am relatively new to the internet and the concept of fandoms. I’ve read a webcomic here or there but that’s about it. So I’m constantly learning that people can put out excellent work through non-industry channels. I think it’s the sheer number of complex characters that makes Tellius stand out. It’s not even that it’s different from other Fire Emblem games in that regard, rather it’s that there are so many worthwhile ones, and the world they live in is richer than the series has otherwise given us. Even Ike is fascinating, and I could gush about Micaiah forever.

            You’ve probably seen it, but this is the tagline quote the wiki gives her:

            โ€œIf thatโ€™s what it takes to be just, then I want nothing to do with justice. Iโ€™d rather be hated and feared like Mad King Ashnard. Iโ€™d rather the dark god take my soul. Iโ€™m going to save my people, Sothe. If the rest of the world paints me as a beast to be reviled and hated, so be it.โ€

            I think that makes it clear we’re not in traditional Fire Emblem lord territory.

          • Sisyphe

            I was prepared. I saved my comment. I wonder when they’re deleted through, because I usually check back if I can a little bit after I post to see if it stuck…

            I think you’ve made a very strong case, and I think it’s supported in the text besides. I guess I balk either because I don’t trust the intentionality of the writers in this case, or maybe because the story doesn’t really engage any of these issues. Both Eliwood and Hector have very clear character growth subplots that play out across their respective stories and through conversations with other characters, some of which are hidden or require multiple playthroughs. Ephraim doesn’t get any of that, and Marth, Roy, Lyn, and Chrom don’t either, which is why I relegate them to the pile of bland lords. Even Eirika gets a little bit of development because the plot and events of Sacred Stones affect her emotionally whereas Ephraim keeps them at a distance.

            I did miss an important piece from Ephraim’s A support with Kyle, where he bluntly says he doesn’t feel affection for people (other than Forde, Kyle, Seth, Duessel, and Eirika) because of how he was raised. It’s interesting to compare that to Eirika and the qualities of hers that are considered laudable. It makes me wonder about how they were raised. When you talk about a potential grown-up version of Ephraim, I can’t help but picture him becoming a Vigarde or Rudolf: great leaders and soldiers whose failures with human relationships ended up doing great harm to their kingdoms and those around them.

            Blazing Blade came out in 2003 actually, or 2004 depending on where you are (doesn’t mean you played it then though), and I remember plucking it off a shelf, so, yeah, I was probably nine. I will never know why I thought it was a good idea for me to pick that game up then, but I will always be quite glad I did.

            One probably *should* play defensively in Fire Emblem and field a diverse army, but somehow, I always end up rolling through the maps with an army of child mages…Fire Emblem as a whole seems to dislike the archer class. There just aren’t many great archers in the series, except in Fates and Radiant Dawn. In Radiant Dawn, the archer promotion can attack from three spaces away and two of your archers have just broken stats. It’s ridiculous.

            I am relatively new to the internet and the concept of fandoms. I’ve read a webcomic here or there but that’s about it. So I’m constantly learning that people can put out excellent work through non-industry channels. I think it’s the sheer number of complex characters that makes Tellius stand out. It’s not even that it’s different from other Fire Emblem games in that regard, rather it’s that there are so many worthwhile ones, and the world they live in is richer than the series has otherwise given us. Even Ike is fascinating, and I could gush about Micaiah forever.

            You’ve probably seen it, but this is the tagline quote the wiki gives her

            โ€œIf thatโ€™s what it takes to be just, then I want nothing to do with justice. Iโ€™d rather be hated and feared like Mad King Ashnard. Iโ€™d rather the dark god take my soul. Iโ€™m going to save my people, Sothe. If the rest of the world paints me as a beast to be reviled and hated, so be it.โ€

            I think that makes it clear we’re not in traditional Fire Emblem territory.

          • Shenai

            Go you XD

            I’m definitely not going to argue with you on Eliwood and Hector, I love those two very much. In fact Hector is probably my real all time favorite. Otherwise, well, it’s a good thing we don’t all have the same favorites, right^^

            The interesting thing about that Kyle support is that I got that vibe from Ephraim long, long before I ever read that conversation. I guess I might be sensitive towards that kind of character. The disassociation seemed pretty obvious to me.
            I think young Ephraim was very happy that Lyon wanted to be friends with him and his sister. Lyon was more like Eirika, and I think Ephraim admires those qualities that he doesn’t have or has been told he shouldn’t, very much. It all adds up to their final conversation that you quoted.
            I really hope his very close bond with Eirika and his admiration for her will help prevent him becoming that type of ruler. Apart from that I think his saving grace might be that he doesn’t really seem to care about political power.
            But maybe it’s all just wishful thinking because I like him XD I still think there’s a chance he might be very unhappy in the long run :/

            Wow that was young. I tried to place it and 2005 makes the most sense in my case. Anyway, so you’re probably somewhere between 8-10 years younger than me ๐Ÿ˜‰

            I’ve certainly had some late game FE 7 maps devolve into “just put Nino there and watch her kill everything” so I can relate. I don’t know, archers have always been good for me, just take a bit more care to employ effectively. In FE 7 for example my Rebecca usually turns out a true beast.

            Well, I can only hope I’ll get to play them at some point.
            And that’s definitely not the most usual approach of an FE lord.

          • Sisyphe

            I think part of it is an age thing for me, based on when I played Sacred Stones and the impression it left at that time. I mean, I thought Eliwood was pretty boring until fairly recently. I wouldn’t say that now. I never thought Hector was boring, though I don’t really relate to him. He just kind of lays it all out there for the most part. I don’t actually remember if I’ve gotten the Hector and Lyn boat scene (I’ll be honest, I kind of like them as a pair — it’s a shame their support conversations are underwhelming). But anyway, I’m not surprised I didn’t think of Ephraim that way at the time and that I’m able to see that perspective now.

            Unfortunately for him though, Vigarde and Rudolf didn’t overtly care about political power either. It was arguably their station and sense of duty that caused problems for each of them (certainly true of Rudolf. While we generally know Vigarde to have been a great man, it might just be he was not well-equipped to be the parent Lyon needed). I really like the Rudolf comparison the more I think about it, at least as I think about their personal lives. Politically they’d be quite different. In any case, I like to believe Ephraim finds his happiness with L’arachel. She’ll keep him on his toes, not that I can ever really see him separating from Eirika.

            I have entered Chapter 25 with a Rebecca with 12 STR and 28 SPD. That might an extreme example, but it is not an outlier case for me. I generally get more out of Neimi, who is usually effective, if unremarkable. FE7 has given me some truly bizarre growth rates over the years. I’ve had some truly dreadful Eliwoods and in many cases Hector has been my fastest, and strongest, and tankiest, and so on… lord. My very first playthrough, I used Marcus, because I didn’t know any better, and found later that I got some unnaturally good growths out of him. It’s not a matter of if Sain will cap his STR as a Cavalier, but when. I could go on.

            I thought it was really funny when you mentioned that Ephraim never smiles (he might during his supports with Eirika and Duessel), that was something you looked for, because I describe Micaiah the same way. I joke I’m waiting for any sort of Micaiah Heroes alt just so I can see the poor girl happy.

          • Shenai

            That’s quite possible too, I guess.
            I absolutely adore Eliwood^^ Hector is just like a force of nature *g*
            Nope, really don’t like them as a pair (surprise~) but some of their interactions are quite funny nonetheless. They certainly clash well.

            With L’Arachel, huh? XD Well, can’t complain. Tana was really a bit… weird, about Ephraim. Though I like to sometimes just make Ephraim-Tana and Innes-Eirika happen so they can just pretty much do the whole Renais-Frelia thing and visit all the time. I was going to say merge the kingdoms but then I thought about Innes and thought “never gonna happen” *cough*
            But I could also see Eirika marrying Seth and her ruling and Ephraim being more general of the queen’s army. Then again, I did say having his own family might mellow him. And anyway the game told us he becomes king.
            And no, he won’t ever willingly separate from Eirika, nor she from him. Twins. So her influence is my best hope in many ways.

            I’ve had Rebecca get pretty close to maxing her strength on multiple occasions. Eliwood usually turns out great for me as well. Hector, Hector is just amazing and a one man army.
            Ah Sain, see I usually favor speed over strength and Sain’s skill is sometimes so dreadful, that I use Kent a lot more.
            But for me Fiora and Florina usually turn out to become some of my best units. Have I mentioned Fiora yet? I think I like Fiora the way you like Catria *g*

            I would have to switch on the game and check on those, and make no mistake, I probably will.
            Ephraim’s art in heroes still freaks me out for that reason. He seems not really himself in any case, but well, that’s true for a few characters in heroes.

          • Sisyphe

            Yeah Eliwood has really grown on me, though I find the dissonance between his stature and his combat ability kind of funny. He’ll say things about fighting and protecting people and more often that not I’ll see straight 16s in this stats upon promotion. And it doesn’t help that he promotes too late to be useful, because even in Hector’s quest I usually promote Lyn first, since I’ve had 10 extra chapters with her, she’s almost always stronger, and bows really help with all the wyverns.Hector is probably the most powerful lord in the series in game. Ephraim could challenge him but he has such low caps that he hits them almost immediately. It’s rare that I finish Sacred Stones without Ephraim having capped STR, SKL, SPD, and DEF.

            I don’t really like Tana, and I really don’t like her with Ephraim. He clearly has no interest in her, and her interest in him feels like the crush a teenager would have. At least, Ephraim kind of acknowledges he likes L’arachel. I could never marry Eirika and Innes. Innes is just so unpleasant much of the time, and his intensity seems like a poor fit for her.

            Kent sort of has the Eliwood issue for me. A lot of the time his stats fall behind as he approaches level 20. My Sains usually have abysmal skill, but 20 STR, 16 SPD before promotion isn’t uncommon for him for me. Whether I use him is almost entirely based on where that SPD ends up. Florina rarely works out for me. Fiora most often does, though sometimes I already like my group by the time I get her, and I have good luck with Farina too if she can steal a few levels on the map on which she appears.

            The Heroes imaginings are a mixed bag, definitely. First and foremost, I find a lot of epithets to be inaccurate, but there are some weird inconsistencies as well, like Ephraim’s perpetual smirk. Occasionally they do some pretty cool stuff though. Regular Ephraim’s speech at level 40 is awesome: he admits to feeling guilt over not doing more for Lyon, and also that his strength alone isn’t enough to solve problems. Giving us a version of Lyon either post or separated from the Demon King was really neat as well. I wish they put more effort in, on the whole. For example, they tried to give Grima a bit of backstory and motivation through his dialogue, and it didn’t really work, but I appreciate that they tried.

          • Shenai

            Yeah, I always had to side-eye him a bit when he claims that he spars with Hector and it’s mostly an even split on wins, but then, tactics and technique can play a great role and he has weapon triangle advantage. Mine usually turned out near or above 20 for all stats and sometimes maxed some, guess I got lucky. He was always very good for me.

            Ephraim has weapon triangle disadvantage against Hector. But yeah, that’d be a fight to watch *g* Inside FE 8 he’s perfectly good as a one man army though. But the same is true for Hector in FE 7. At least these two are still badass in Heroes.

            I do like Tana, but her crush on Ephraim is that awkward puppy love thing that doesn’t really work for a proper longterm relationship and he seems more uncomfortable with it than anything else. Still, sometimes I do it for fun. Tana was very young and quite naive, but also very sincere and genuinely interested in people and open to learning, so I did quite like her. She’s a bit freaky with Ephraim but quite nice with everyone else.

            As for Innes… ahahaha, he is such an idiot. Mostly I find him funny, and I do like him. I went back to read their support and oh dear… he will only court Eirika after he can beat her brother??? a) wtf Innes? b) you know it’ll never happen unless Ephraim gets so annoyed he loses on purpose, which again, it’ll never happen
            The only way I can see those two getting married is if somehow Eirika also finds his idiocy charming and puts her foot down to stop those two’s nonsensical rivalry. Which, well, Ephraim would appreciate that too.

            But mostly I like her better with any of her other options too^^

            Sain’s strength and speed (if usable) are sometimes pointless when his skill is so low he misses more than he hits. For me he often gets benched eventually as I have terrible luck with his already terrible skill. Sometimes Florina turns into almost a flying tank for me. Fiora does so most of the time. If I can I will field all of the fliers unless on a map with ballistae or a large number of archers.

            Ephraim’s smirk is sooo weird. Yeah, sometimes they do come out nicely.

            Ah, one more comment on the fanfic thing. Well, fanfic is one of the reasons I’m fluent in English so I don’t regret anything.

          • Sisyphe

            Yeah, in Fire Emblem terms, Eliwood might be able to give Hector a run for his money, because of the speed similarity and weapon triangle advantage, but I find it hard to believe if that their sessions would be competitive if they were simply sparring one-on-one. I don’t know whose Eliwood is more typical, but I’m quite confident none of my Eliwoods have ever maxed a stat.

            And yeah, I’m talking in terms of who is typically the most effective unit in their games. I give it to Hector because his game is harder, and he can take on some ludicrous matchups if his stats break right. Ephraim is similarly a force in his game, but between horse limitations, low caps, and easier enemies, I go with Hector in both Fire Emblem terms (weapon triangle, probably doesn’t get doubled by Ephraim’s sad 24 SPD) and generally (he’s bigger).

            I don’t mind Tana generally I guess, rather she doesn’t resonate with me personally. I don’t think she and Ephraim have anything in common, and she doesn’t seem to really have a grasp of him as a person (other than that he’s clearly very attractive).

            I think Heroes actually did a good job of unpacking Innes, interspersing pride and a sense of duty into a character who can just seem petty and competitive in his own game. It’s also weird that he’s an archer, with that type of personality. You can tell from Ephraim’s support with Tana that the rivalry is mostly one-sided anyway. He also has some maturing to do I think. I think I’ve successfully paired Eirika with Seth and Forde before, but as I’ve said, mostly Eirika and Ephraim end up supporting incidentally. I realize I tend not to use most of Eirika’s support partners.

            The issue I usually have with Florina is really low HP early on. I have also had versions of her with unusually high STR and DEF, but the HP usually limits her defensive potential, and Fiora usually turns out better (did not realize she was the oldest. I always just assumed it was Farina). I had a good Heath once, because of hard mode bonuses, but other than that, it’s usually Fiora or no one.

            If you’re saying English wasn’t your first language then you shouldn’t regret anything. You grasp it better than most native speakers I encounter, particularly on the Internet.

          • Shenai

            “Horse limitations” XD I see we definitely think of cavalry differently. You’re right of course that FE 8 is the easier game. And I would agree on the overall conclusion too. It’s just hard to believe anyone could really beat Hector.

            No, she just sees Ephraim and thinks “dreamy” and that’s that. It doesn’t have much to do with him. She’s very different with anyone she doesn’t have a crush on, so I wouldn’t rule it out forever, but with what the game gives us, it does make it feel iffy to pair them up.

            I’ve never thought of him as petty, but he’s certainly not an easily likable sort. Yes, Ephraim doesn’t care about the rivalry. I think he’d much prefer to be friends. As Innes is one of the few people he doesn’t have a duty to, it’d be a chance for an actual connection, so I always really regretted those two not having a support, as I said before.

            I usually like trying different supports on each playthrough because in the past they really added to the characters, so I’ve tried Saleh as well, but he’s one of FE8’s blandest characters for me. Seth seems to come very naturally with Eirika and Forde’s kinda cute as well. Eirika and Ephraim rarely happens for me. Between Myrrh, Duessel and his hilarious support with L’Arachel, his support slots are always full already. Eirika can support with L’Arachel too.

            Yes, Florina is super frail early one. But usually it’s worth investing in her. At least for me. Fiora is better though. Nope, Farina’s the middle one. Heath can be hit and miss but I like him as a character and especially his support with Legault so I do use him.

            If we’re talking chronologically English was my third, if we’re counting dialects, my fourth. But if we’re going by proficiency then definitely second. I started learning English at age 11/5th grade. Fanfic was one of the most readily available sources of reading material (and cheapest). And thank you very much.

          • Sisyphe

            Well not unlike in Heroes, mounted units have lower stat caps. In FE8, I think Paladins cap all their stats around 25, including 24/25 SPD, which matters when there’s a post-game. I always run Amelia as a General for that reason. She gets weapon variety, humongous stat caps, and with Boots she’s as mobile as anyone. Ephraim’s 24 SPD can be frustrating.

            I feel like Tana is still childish in most of her conversations (even doing the “you hate me!” trope with Innes). Not a bad sort, but it’s hard to consider pairing her up, especially since she has some other fun supports (I really like Cormag. You wouldn’t think they would support. Tana is consistently one of my best units though, even if the pegasus -> wyvern is a strange one.

            He’s kind of petty. One might consider keeping up a one-side rivalry with someone out of insecurity that he might be a better leader than you is a little petty, moreso given that Ephraim is an ally, who, if I recall, is clearly put off that Innes doesn’t like him. He also warns Tana that Ephraim might take advantage of her, and protests their arrangement if you pair them. Then there are the competitions with L’arachel and Joshua. Yeah, I maintain he has some growing up to do, but you might imagine Innes and Ephraim getting on well as they age.

            The supports in 7 and 8 (and 6) are so hard to get that I think I ended up reading most of them. Plus, I don’t often use characters that support with each other, or even use the characters with the most interesting supports. Like Seth, Forde, and Duessel don’t see a lot of time in my armies typically, and I tend to use the trainees, who are kind of cute, but not the most interesting to me.

            Hmm I usually end of limiting my fliers to two, more often than not two wyverns. But in 7, we get Heath too late for me to use him, although he makes life in desert chapter so much easier, especially if I’m not running at least one other flier by then. I probably should see Florina through. I don’t NEED to run all these mages. Let’s see, by the time I get Fiora, I’m usually running Eliwood, Hector, Lyn, Oswin, Lucius, Raven, Canas, Kent and/or Sain, Priscilla, Erk, maybe Serra or Rebecca…yeah I probably could be more flexible. I just go through the game the way I always have. I will probably never naturally complete Legault and Heath’s supports. I don’t even know how one would do that.

            I think dialects often count. There are a lot of dialects in most languages, but usually the ones that people mention are practically languages unto themselves. You must have at least some capacity for languages then. I’m envious of that.

          • Shenai

            Your comment was removed while I was typing… so… here’s the reply, split in two for safety.

            I guess in post-game it might matter, but I didn’t perceive the caps to be that much lower. But it comes down to playstyle I guess, like I said, I prefer speed over strength and that includes mobility. Amelia usually ends up a Great Knight. But sometimes a General. Yeah, but you only have one boots… Since I prefer high mobility units the ones with slower movement often end up being left behind and never even fighting, making them completely redundant for my army.

            She is. Oh Innes had it coming *g*
            She’s great with Cormag, that’s a really nice support. And good on the field too as they can easily stay in range of each other. And yes, Tana is strong.

            Hm, to me he always felt more jealous and proud and very competitive, than petty or insecure, but it’s been a while, and I may be biased. Innes may also be a bit paranoid *g* He’s not a bad loser though. Oh he’ll want a rematch, but he doesn’t get upset about losing. Most of them have some growing up still to do, most of them are quite young. It would be nice if Innes could get over his little Ephraim complex eventually.

          • Shenai

          • Sisyphe

            I’m going to try to at least consolidate us back to two threads. Things are difficult enough as it is. I can barely find the most recent comment sometimes (saying Disqus is not a great way to communicate is an understatement).

            You can actually farm boots pretty easily late game, and with the twins mounted, I don’t know who I would give them to but Amelia. I usually give them to lords, since they actually need to go places (or Hector, because everywhere is better with Hector). But that gives Amelia 7 move, which puts her ahead of infantry.

            Tana and Cormag is an excellent support, both in content and in battle. It’s interesting you mention growing up for them. Eirika seems pretty mature, or at least that she’s always going to be the way she is, but the other lordlings all have some growing up to do: Innes, Tana, Joshua, L’arachel, and Ephraim. Maturity wasn’t really Lyon’s issue, for all the good it did him. Contrast that to other Fire Emblem lords: Eliwood, Hector, Lyn, Marth, Roy, Ike, Elincia, Sanaki, and Chrom (we don’t speak of Corrin), and the Sacred Stones cast stands out for their immaturity.

            Legault and Renault are both great characters that I don’t use, though I have gone through Renault’s dialogue with Nergal. I’ve promoted Legault, but he always paled in comparion to the RNG Asssassin Jaffar. I have never seen a character so grossly outperform his stats as Jaffar did for me. Just Silencers upon Sliencers.

            I don’t think it’s quite right to say that anyone can learn languages. In some cases the amount of time required to make progress can be so steep as to be untenable or even impossible. I have some background with languages. Aside from English, I know both French and Japanese badly, but formally. But it’s equal parts embarassing and frustrating to think about how little I’ve learned for the time I’ve invested. I had a lot of fun with Japanese. It gave some really fun new ways to think and express myself, but I hit a wall, where suddenly I wasn’t grasping the grammar anymore. As much as I love the idea of learning languages (I once had designs on learning a number — German and I guess Mandarin had been next), but I’m resigned to realizing I’m probably too old to be able to invest the necessary time (which might seem like an odd thing to say to you).

          • Shenai

            Good plan.

            You can? I thought those were limited. Amelia with 7 movement is nice indeed.

            Eirika is definitely the most mature of the royal bunch.
            Did you really list Lyn with that? ^^;; I can’t speak for some of those, and I definitely agree on some of the others. But I also think some of them gained some maturity during their games and others still have room to grow, although I concede they are not as immature as the FE 8 ones.

            Jaffar never worked for me. Legault on the other hand, lucky cad. Otherwise I prefer Matthew. Ah Leila…

            Oh it is, just not everyone can learn them as quickly or as well. If you’re forced to live in another country, you will learn unless you do your best not to.
            Japanese would be my third when we’re going by proficiency. French was my sixth chronologically and I’m happy to say I forgot just about all of it, gladly. I remember the most important sentence “Je ne sais pas.” Generally learning languages formally didn’t work out great for me. Hence the French. The reason I’m fluent in English definitely wasn’t my formal education. What your description tells me is that maybe you need to find out which way it is that your brain learns easiest. I’m an acoustic learner, which granted, gives me an edge with languages. Writing down words to learn them was one of the worst things school made me do, because it had zero benefit for me.

            Don’t learn German, it’s terrible. You’re definitely not too old. Of course it depends on your circumstances but I started learning Japanese not much younger than you are, ok, it was an accident, but still. And I do still plan to learn more. You’ve got your whole life, you’ll just have to accept that it’ll take longer.

            And I maintain that if English is your first language you are at a disadvantage. It’s phonetically flat and limited, there are no consistent pronounciation rules and the grammar is all in all pretty simple. And it’s the most internationally useful language.

          • Sisyphe

            You can only get one pair of boots through conventional means, but it’s pretty easy to mess with the Lagdou Ruins RNG to generate the map that has a Boots drop (and a bunch of other great items). Obviously the campaign doesn’t require it, but it’s nice for post-game (Lagdou is still pretty hard even fully outfitted. I don’t think Fire Emblem has ever had another mode that requires the resource management it does).

            Haha well it’s clear by this point that we vary in our perspectives. I think she doesn’t know what she wants, or possibly doesn’t know if it’s okay to have what she wants (to return to the plains), but I never found her as unpleasant as you seem to. I would say she’s closer to Ephraim than Innes and Tana in the sense that if you watch Ephraim and Lyn, they would pass as functional people, whereas Innes and Tana have some quirks that are pretty blatant upon meeting them. Maybe maturity isn’t the right word there.

            I won’t spoil you for incredible character development of Elincia and Sanaki, but an aside on Ike: Ike is basically everything Ephraim pretends to be, but consistent and self-aware. He’s detached, poor in conversation, thinks only of fighting, and is spurred on by a desire to test his strength and by loyalty to his friends. And he knows all of this. Occasionally, you find him questioning how he is, but he is usually resigned to it. Awakening did an interesting (frustrating) thing giving us Priam, because Ike has such tunnel vision that he’s the only lord in Fire Emblem with no romantic options. They are not mentioned in any capacity through either games, and I don’t think the concept of romance or love or attraction reaches him at any point. Most people assumed he was asexual until Priam appeared (don’t worry, there’s plenty to Ike that I didn’t reveal here too).

            It’s kind of hard to take your word on languages when you’re talking about learning your third and sixth ;). I always avoided immersing myself in a language because I always feared I would go to great lengths to get by without it if I did. I also probably learn best logically, which is not how people learn languages at all. I want to know all of the rules and structure, and then I’ll just fit the words and such in how I please, as if it were math.

            But in any case, I find my time limited relative to the amount I would need to be passable in another language, though I concede all the comments about English you make. It is definitely flat, it takes pronunciation from other languages as it pleases, and well, I guess I would say its grammar is on the simpler end. German can sound beautiful though, and it expresses concepts that English can’t more than a lot of languages do.

          • Sisyphe

            Sigh…lost this one, so you’re getting the abbreviated version.

            You can use RNG to generate certain Lagdou maps with Boots and a lot of other good items. It’s not necesary for the main story but useful for post-game. Lagdou is still pretty hard. I don’t Fire Emblem has ever had another resource management challenge like that. I miss it.

            I think Lyn at least passes for functional, like Ephraim, unlike Innes and Tana, who have some quirks you notice as soon as you meet them. But maybe maturity isn’t the right word.

            Elincia and Sanaki have incredible character arcs that I won’t spoil, and Ike is surprisingly fascinating as well. I wrote a much longer thing about Ike before, but he has a lot of similarities to Ephraim I think that make discussing them comparatively really interesting.

            Matthew is a great character, but as a unit he seemed mostly all speed and nothing else, as I’d expect of a thief. His support with Jaffar is brilliant though.

            I find it hard to take your word on languages when you mention your third and sixth ;). I’m a logical learner. I want to know all of the rules and structure, as if it were math, and then I’ll fit the words in afterward. I agree with your points about English, though I think German can be a beautiful language and expresses concepts that English often cannot.

            Sorry for rushing through this one. I’ll admit that losing my original comment was pretty demoralizing (thought I saved it; I did not)

          • Shenai

            I went to the notifications emails but it seems you really mean lost this time and not to Disqus.

            I see, that sounds like a lot of trouble to go to.

            Personally I think Innes is perfectly functional, just a bit of an ass and so proud he’s going to get hit in the face by that badly at some point. Which might give him some character growth and additional maturity.
            Lyn would do alright in the context of the life she grew up with, I’ll give you that, but not with what she gets pushed into, which, fair enough.

            Pity I can’t do it properly then, not having played the games, and you lost your comment.
            If FE 18 makes me buy a Switch (what am I saying “if”) and they come out on virtual console, maybe we will have that discussion someday.

            As I rarely use thieves for fighting that speed was key. Watch Matthew dodge dodge dodge away and get those precious treasures.
            All his supports were good.

            You’re going to disbelieve me even more now then because Japanese was the 7th chronologically *cough* and I never said it was as easy for everyone. But, please forgive me on this, what your original comment made me think was mostly that you’re still really young. Not in a bad way, just, what do you think older people do? *g* We all learn all our lives long, not just until we leave the education system. And that can include languages. I did my JLPT N2 when I was 27. My colleague is 50 and improving her English all the time, and now that she’s helping her son with his French she gets to refresh and improve that too and she does fine, and she’s not great with languages. So… it depends on your circumstances, but you can still learn more languages at any time you want, even after retirement.
            Ok, but do you know what sensory input works best? And Japanese should’ve been a good fit then. In a way German won’t be. It’s a mess. Really, you think it’s beautiful? Interesting. I’ll grant you we have some very cool words English doesn’t, but that’s true for most languages.

            Hoping this won’t be deleted… I say 7th but I’ve only retained any genuine level of proficiency in 5 counting the dialect, and 2.5 of those, including the dialect, are mostly passive. I’m much worse at expressing myself in them. English is the only one where my active skills match anywhere near my passive ones.

          • Sisyphe

            I think it was Disqus that did it. It must have been rejected immediately. I’m learning from my mistake.

            Manipulating the RNG isn’t a lot of trouble. Did you not manipulate the Tower to play maps with multiple Entombed to kill? It makes grinding much easier. Doing all the prep for a Lagdou run is fairly involved (and there’s still no guarantee you’ll survive the map of Draco Zombies at the end). Have you not tried that either? Lyon, as a bonus unit (after three Lagdou clears) can actually solo just about the entire thing, though the Draco Zombies will still wreck him.

            I think I mean socially. I think people would meet Innes and kind of roll their eyes. They would find him unpleasant. They might think Tana is kind of weird. So I guess I mean that Ephraim and Lyn can better pass for normal? But it’s true there’s also the aspect of maturity that allows you to handle complex circumstances in life. In that case, I think Lyn would do less well, whereas Innes would clearly fair better. Tana would struggle here too, but I think we’re in agreement on her. Of course, I think most people would (and did) find Ike very strange, but he’s more than capable of handling difficult situations.

            I am also in the “FE 18 will make me by a Switch” camp. The anxiety over FE 18 generally is very real. One thing that’s so interesting is that Radiant Dawn actually doesn’t have supports at all. It’s really incredible it has the character writing it has without them (there are base conversations though, like Shadow Dragon, New Mystery, and SoV). Of course, it also crams so much writing in that it seems to throw maps in sometimes just because it would be a VN otherwise.

            Oh yeah, Matthew is more than adequate as a Thief, but so is Legault. I tend not to use thieves at all, instead relying on keys and enemy thieves to get loot. Some Fire Emblem games have maps with a lot to loot, but I never found enough on Blazing Blade maps to warrant a dedicated thief, which is good because Jaffar can’t loot chests anyway. I have so many Jaffar stories of him doing 0 damage to Limstella and Nergal and silencing them anyway. Matthew does have great supports. I’ve always appreciated that the series doesn’t directly correlate unit viability with character depth.

            7! Oh my! I’m quite envious. I can’t even imagine. My Japanese and my French fight each other constantly. When I was first learning Japanese, I used to automatically substitute a French word when I forgot the Japanese one. Maybe it’s because I’m not adept at learning languages that the idea of learning even one without rigorous, dedicated study is foreign to me. So in that case (and I don’t know that you’re so much older than me that you use that on me *g*), it doesn’t look to me that *most* people have time for that. I don’t feel like I do now. While I acknowledge that my particular academic environment may not have been the best for my hopes of learning a language, having the freedom of that environment was no doubt very useful.

            I don’t think I’m more inclined to any sensory input over another. I mean, I’m aware of the stereotypes of the German language, and I’ve heard some expressions that would seem to back them up, but I’ve also heard some beautifully spoken German. It left an impression on me, in any case, more than French even, which is obviously more often considered a beautiful language. It’s true that all languages have some unique expression and concepts (though my Japanese seemed suspiciously absent of them — I did learn some fun wordplay however), but I’ve noticed it more in German. It might be that I have more exposure to German and German translated into English, which is, as far as I can tell, a dreadful affair. I’ve found even good translations of German to be largely unintelligible for the subjects I was studying, and the culprit was usually that we couldn’t express the thought perfectly in English.

          • Sisyphe

            I think it was Disqus that did it. It must have been rejected immediately. I’m learning from my mistake (lost both my comments this time, and this one twice).

            Manipulating the RNG isn’t a lot of trouble. Did you not manipulate the Tower to play maps with multiple Entombed to kill? It makes grinding much easier. Doing all the prep for a Lagdou run is fairly involved (and there’s still no guarantee you’ll survive the map of Draco Zombies at the end). Have you not tried that either? Lyon, as a bonus unit (after three Lagdou clears) can actually solo just about the entire thing, though the Draco Zombies will still wreck him.

            I think I mean socially. I think people would meet Innes and kind of roll their eyes. They would find him unpleasant. They might think Tana is kind of weird. So I guess I mean that Ephraim and Lyn can better pass for normal? But it’s true there’s also the aspect of maturity that allows you to handle complex circumstances in life. In that case, I think Lyn would do less well, whereas Innes would clearly fair better. Tana would struggle here too, but I think we’re in agreement on her. Of course, I think most people would (and did) find Ike very strange, but he’s more than capable of handling difficult situations.

            I am also in the “FE 18 will make me by a Switch” camp. The anxiety over FE 18 generally is very real. One thing that’s so interesting is that Radiant Dawn actually doesn’t have supports at all. It’s really incredible it has the character writing it has without them (there are base conversations though, like Shadow Dragon, New Mystery, and SoV). Of course, it also crams so much writing in that it seems to throw maps in sometimes just because it would be a VN otherwise.

            Oh yeah, Matthew is more than adequate as a Thief, but so is Legault. I tend not to use thieves at all, instead relying on keys and enemy thieves to get loot. Some Fire Emblem games have maps with a lot to loot, but I never found enough on Blazing Blade maps to warrant a dedicated thief, which is good because Jaffar can’t loot chests anyway. I have so many Jaffar stories of him doing 0 damage to Limstella and Nergal and silencing them anyway. Matthew does have great supports. I’ve always appreciated that the series doesn’t directly correlate unit viability with character depth.

            7! Oh my! I’m quite envious. I can’t even imagine. My Japanese and my French fight each other constantly. When I was first learning Japanese, I used to automatically substitute a French word when I forgot the Japanese one. Maybe it’s because I’m not adept at learning languages that the idea of learning even one without rigorous, dedicated study is foreign to me. So in that case (and I don’t know that you’re so much older than me that you use that on me *g*), it doesn’t look to me that *most* people have time for that. I don’t feel like I do now. While I acknowledge that my particular academic environment may not have been the best for my hopes of learning a language, having the freedom of that environment was no doubt very useful.

            I don’t think I’m more inclined to any sensory input over another. I mean, I’m aware of the stereotypes of the German language, and I’ve heard some expressions that would seem to back them up, but I’ve also heard some beautifully spoken German. It left an impression on me, in any case, more than French even, which is obviously more often considered a beautiful language. It’s true that all languages have some unique expression and concepts (though my Japanese seemed suspiciously absent of them — I did learn some fun wordplay however), but I’ve noticed it more in German. It might be that I have more exposure to German and German translated into English, which is, as far as I can tell, a dreadful affair. I’ve found even good translations of German to be largely unintelligible for the subjects I was studying, and the culprit was usually that we couldn’t express the thought perfectly in English.

          • Shenai

            Disqus really seems to hate you right now… saw your replies in email notifications but they just don’t seem to stick… would ask for an email to continue the conversation because I’m really enjoying it but I know typing out an email online is just asking for trouble…

          • Sisyphe

            Yeah, I think I tried about four times total. It’s easier because I save the comments when I type them, but there’s at least a 20-minute delay between when I comment and when they disappear, and it’s not like I’m just sitting at my computer watching them. I really liked those comments too… ๐Ÿ˜€

            I’m sure we can think of something if you want to continue the conversation. I’m also really enjoying it (and it’s been almost two weeks already somehow). Are you familiar with Discord? That seems like an easy way to go about it. It has a DM feature for one, which I would say is the primary benefit for our purposes.

          • Shenai

            I liked them too, but I fear my replies would get just as lengthy.

            Wow, didn’t even realize that.
            I’m not, but I’m positive I can work it out. Any Discord in particular? And I think this is where we might get into some trouble with timezones.

          • Sisyphe

            Well, in spite my suggesting it, I’m not completely familiar with all its workings myself. But I understand that you can join it (through either a mobile or desktop app), and then just friend request someone through their tag (mine is the same. I try to use this one for everything if I can).

            I don’t think you need to be a part of any specific servers to use that feature (I’m only in a few), and while anyone can create one, I’m not sure if there’s any particular advantage to having a whole server for a couple people. In any case, I have friends who use Discord but who aren’t in any of the same servers I’m in, and we’re still “friends” in Discord.

            The primary advantage, as I said, is that there’s a DM feature (with a very, very good search feature). The other advantage is that it’s private, so if we try it, and you don’t like it, then I can just give you my email there and we can resort to more conventional means.

            I’m not really worried about timezones, since it hasn’t seemed like an issue so far, unless I’m not thinking of something.

          • Shenai

            this is actually part 2, see below, Disqus is not the smartest commenting system.

            In replays I often purposefully grind for supports. In FE8 it’s easier since you can use the skirmishes and later the tower to do that. FE 6 though seems like it would really be a huge pain.
            The supports are one of the reasons I end up using characters I usually wouldn’t.

            I tend to alternate at least a little. Oswin I rarely use because of the movement. I think for me it’s more Hector, Eliwood, Fiora, Nino, Priscilla, Rebecca, Nils/Ninian, Kent, Florina and/or Farina, Canas, Lucius. And then fill in the gaps with what’s needed/fits the supports. I’ve used Erk, Heath, even Isadora, Legault, Louise, Lowen, Lyn, Matthew, Oswin, Pent, Rath, Raven, Sain, Serra, Vaida and Wil, all to good effect. And sometimes even the rest. And support helps in battle too. What can I say, Legault is another huge favorite. His supports are some of the most interesting. In some ways he was very much at the center of the whole FE 7 plot, not involved but as a witness and you learn some interesting things. Renaud is similar in that respect.

            Anyone can learn languages, it’s just harder for some and easier for others. I do fall into the easier category. And I think having English as a first language really hurts your chances of picking up other languages. My best tip is if you want to learn a language, find a way to make learning it fun, and it’ll come easily over time.

          • Shenai

            P.S.: I usually run an “airforce” in FE and I like the cavalry. I makes for fun shenanigans like flanking, especially when you can block chokepoints with armor or heavy infantry. But you can also take out outliers, get to locations, etc. so I definitely always appreciate extra mobility. I like speed over strength, so that suits my playstyle more ๐Ÿ™‚ But usually it’s smartest to play FE very defensively. Doesn’t mean those fliers and cavalry aren’t really useful though. Usually I try to keep a very mixed team, and I’ve always liked archers. It all depends on the map of course

          • Shenai

            I did comment on the other one too, but it got marked as spam again for some reason and there’s nothing I can do. I don’t know why that keeps happening.

            It was something to the effect of I can’t make pivot work, armor march makes everything better and I was very happy to get Amelia back in the day (also because I adore her).

            Wondering how you had no other dragons when adult Tiki, Nowi, Fae and Corrin are available at low rarity and male Kana was a GHB unit. Personally I’m only missing young Tiki. But most of my dragons aren’t built or even 5*. Fae just inherited the extra Alm’s windsweep though.

            Blessings teams are:
            water: Nino, Inigo, Marth and Fjorm, which is almost my arena core and to be honest mostly my TT core (although I’ve been known to run Ninian instead, only Inigo is so convenient with the TA Raven).
            fire: horsie Chrom, horsie Ephraim, Cecilia and bunny Alfonse
            wind: Arvis, Ishtar/Oboro, Felicia and Gunnthra
            no earth team yet, only VL Ike and his best bud Raven, they need some team mates who aren’t Inigo and Fjorm. Maybe Delthea, maybe an archer. I try to choose a team which will actually benefit from the specific blessing when active.

            The odd wind one is working out so well, just cleared Zephiel’s map with them. And Julius earlier today.

            Never had Genny nor Micaiah and only a bad IV 4* Sothe. So can’t really compare.
            Only with all those ranged units your score can’t be too great. You’ll probably have to move more towards melee if you want to stay in higher tiers. I’m dropping to 18 this week, with only 5 battles there’s no way I can go back to 20 again. In the past couple months I did from time to time. Inigo is really not helping but oh well.
            Or we both need to start running armor… but I still don’t want to.

          • Sisyphe

            Haha you didn’t have to retype it. I get Disqus notifications, so I got the gist of it. Anyway, Amelia has basically the same stat spread as Robin, so no surprise you like her.

            I didn’t mean I had no other dragons. I even promoted M Kana (and promptly forgot about it), but I don’t have good IVs for any but Grima and arguably F Corrin and Fae. F Corrin probably shouldn’t be run over Nowi and Kana, and I think it’d be crazy to run two green dragons, even if there are a number of good ones, so Grima wins there. I expect to one day have an adult Tiki and Nowi with good IVs to round out the group.

            I will probably copy your blessing teams, or at least the Nino-Fjorm, Chrom-Ephraim, and Raven-Vike pairings. Lyn’s blessing is weak, and mine is -SPD, so I don’t know what I’ll do with that. She hits like a truck with her skills active, so maybe something with a lot of buffs. I pretty much need everybody to carry Reposition though. I live on that skill.

            I am definitely shooting myself in the foot running all my ranged units (Xander, Reinhardt, Cecilia, Lyn or Micaiah, Sothe, Genny, and Azura), but I ran BK, Effie, Zephiel, and Hector back when Zephiel was the bonus hero and it didn’t seem to make a meaningful difference. I really don’t love running armors, but I can probably suck it up for five battles now, especially if it gets me back to Tier 18-19.

            All the high level players talk about high-tier melee units in arena, and I was always thought that was weird, since ranged units seem much better, but I realize now it’s for scoring. -_-

          • Shenai

            Oh well.
            I guess she does. Mine’s -def though. But just armor march, so convenient, and she’s fast. Fast armor, it was unheard of back then, apart from Draug.

            Yeah, it’s a pity that two green dragons don’t make a lot of sense. All the green dragons are really good. And for the other colors there are few options and fewer who are as good as the green ones. I accidentally foddered the wrong adult Tiki once… so now I’m waiting for good IVs… never got lucky with Nowi. F Corrin can be built very differently since she’s faster than Nowi, but yeah, I guess if you had a good Nowi she’d be the better pick. Or run both, blue dragons, less worry about Falchions. But well, I’d always run Ninian then, obviously. The problem with Grima is the movement though.

            Good luck finding them team mates. Water works well for me most of the time. I was considering changing Marth for Ayra but I run him mostly as a healer/buffer and to provide a Falchion when needed, so Ayra definitely wouldn’t be filling that role.
            But the weird wind team is the surprise star right now. I made a lucky choice, they work really well together.
            You’ll probably really have to build a team that’s specifically suited to make the most of Lyn’s skillset, entirely to support her. The blessing then becomes merely an afterthought.
            Personally I don’t like having Reposition on everyone XD I like having Draw Back on ranged units, Swap on tanks. Reposition on some of the others. Fliers for sure, as they can make the best use of it.

            Horses have low BST too. My score definitely went up a lot when I switched to mostly infantry melee.
            Interesting you say that the armor season didn’t increase your score. I’ve not tried yet, happy with my current team. My Raven’s worth a lot in BST.

            Yup, exactly. Some skills also are run for score, not utility. To that end Galeforce is doubly good.
            Oh man, thinking back on when this game came out… I was using Palla and Gunter in arena XD Well, Gunter was actually my only green for some time there. He’s got almost 2000 HM, though he’s pretty terrible.

          • Sisyphe

            I think Nowi and Kana are clearly better than F Corrin that this point. More ATK and better mixed bulk. Plus comparable DEF, but Corrin was the equivalent of your Gunter/Palla, since she was +DEF and could wall all the swords early on. I had a random IV *4 Nino, and I pulled my current +SPD/-HP 5* Marth really early, so he got a ton of run.

            I think one red, two blue, and one green is probably the best dragon combo. I didn’t know what refined Light Breath did until recently, but I would probably run Ninian with my dragons if I had her. Even then, I see a lot of TA Swordbreaker Ninians. In a perfect world, I’d probably use Myrrh in the green spot, since she has Hone already and Grima can slso be an effective armor. Alternatively, with girl Grima, one could run tactics dragons with Myrrh and two infantry. Somedsy maybe…

            Blucina seems like a good partner for Lyn. I might add Ryoma for DC and Hone Spd. After that, no idea. My haphazardly assigned blessings teams have beaten most of the GHBs and the Gardens maps (except the water one with Legion that seems impossible), and in most cases they’re just a collection of good units. They hold their own in the arena too.

            It’s not that my score didn’t change from using armors. It’s just that it doesn’t make enough of a difference to move me up a tier

          • Shenai

            I used to use Subaki and Jeorge lot, and then Chrom was my first 5* and saw a lot of use, and Cordelia my second 5*, who’s really good anyway. My Cecilia is still my first, so she’s very old, and my Nino actually I’ve had a very long time as well. First one had -HP + ATk which has suited me fine.
            Marth I’ve only started using a lot a few months ago, but since then he has become a TT staple and caught up hugely in HM.

            Yes, if I build a dragon team Ninian is definitely on it. She naturally has Fortify Dragons anyway. Mine is running Fury (I know I’m getting really predictable… I don’t actually have that on everyone or anything, just apparently my favorites?) and Wings of Mercy. Ironically, she absolutely destroys any (red) Eliwood I encounter…
            Myrrh’s a flier though so unless I put the Iote’s Shield seal on her I’ll have to always be careful of bows. I’d have a really hard time deciding on a green dragon.
            That’s a nice idea. My girl Grima is unfortunately -def, which really hurts her, and especially her niche on a flier team.

            Blucina, Eirika or refined Falchion Marth. Ryoma’s never wrong, really. If you want a dancer maybe PA Shigure if you have one, to buff her defenses for baiting.
            Which one’s the one with Legion? I have one water map not beaten and I’ll try again with Ayra once water season comes around. I’ve not focused on the GHB quests much yet.
            Just checked, yes, the one with Legion is also the one I’ve yet to beat.

            I see. Sometimes it can be really close though and 2-6 points make all the difference.
            Scored 3508 right now, which is not terribly high, but as high as I seem to get currently… definitely not good enough for Tier 20 but seems easily enough for 19? Then again, it’s only the first day. Ishtar isn’t really pushing BST super high, but I just can’t quit my Inigo and I don’t have Shiro and don’t have Kana built, so no other blue for a bonus. And it’s Earth season, I’m not switching out VL Ike when he can be buffing my Raven extra.

          • Sisyphe

            Yeah, Myrrh would require Iote’s Shield. I don’t know what you’re currently doing with yours (Spring Camilla gets mine, and I’d be remiss to change that). I should’ve known your Ninian had Fury, which explains where the extra speed came from.

            I faced a Vike, Ishtar, Myrrh, and Kinshinoka team earlier. I managed to beat it with my armors, which isn’t a ringing endorsement, but that seemed like a really good group team. I guess it doesn’t solve the BST problem really though.

            I have both Eirika and Ephraim with buffing potential, and then I could add Nino or Katarina as well. I feel like refined Marth might fit better, though I’m sure we’ll get Legendary Marth at some point, so I should probably wait to see what his new Falchion does first (I just upgraded Lucina to the Sealed Falchion, so she’s basically Horse Chrom without the Horse. So still really good, in other words. I’m very torn on dancers now generally. They’re so great, but I’m not sure if I could compensate for their BST.

            I have Klein, Robin, Ike, and Kana, of the Arena heroes. Klein is already earth blessed, so I just went with him, even though that’s not going to help me in terms of BST. I’ll probably try a few runs with Kana and Ike to see if that helps. My current team is on pace for 3463, but that includes Klein and Tailtiu, so perhaps that’s no surprise, even if the Tailtiu is merged a bit.

          • Shenai

            Right now it’s on Valter, so I guess it would go to whoever replaces him.
            *whistles innocently* I really don’t have it on everyone, but it is ever so useful.

            Seems nice. I guess I could even try that.
            I’m starting to get the impression that merges may be even more important for the whole scoring thing. Unfortunately I don’t have heavy merges. At least not at 5*. Inigo +4 is still the highest, with only a few +2 or +1 otherwise. The 4*+10 don’t count as much and you might face some nasty merges running that kind of thing.

            My refined Falchion Marth is an excellent healer/buffer so I’m happy with him already. Still, you never know. It’s a good thing I didn’t refine any of the Awakening Falchions before, since now that the Sealed Falchion is available that would probably seem like a waste of divine dew. I only ever got a pity breaking Lucina and she’s -spd so I never did anyhing with her.
            If you have any merged dancers I guess it may compensate some? I mean, I’m still bringing Inigo and he’s got terrible BST.

            I could use Kana, Robin, Ike, Klein, Amelia or Anna, but then I’d have to change someone other than Fjorm or not have one of each color. And well, not all of them are built properly, or even 5*. So will stick to mine for now.
            Or use the newly formed wind blessing team. Slightly lower score, but does arena very easily. Beat Legion GHB with wind team easily too just now.

            Oh, and my Lene misadventure continues… in only a handful or orbs I got ambushed by Mia and another Ishtar on a round without red orbs. I’m really lucky on this banner, just not for the unit I’m trying to get?
            As for Ishtar, my original one is nicer, so now I’m debating on whether to fodder her for Swift Sparrow or Odd Attack Wave or to merge her. I’m leaning towards fodder but I’m not sure which skill or who to give it to. I guess Odd Attack Wave would be brilliant on Nino, but I like Drive Spd on her.

          • Sisyphe

            To be fair, I also put Fury on a lot of things, probably only limited by the number of Hinatas I have.

            I don’t feel like merges should matter too much, since they don’t raise BST too much, unless you’re almost fully merged, but it should already be clear I don’t understand how the scoring works.

            Refined Marth seems pretty good, but the Sealed Falchion absolutely powercreeped the Awakening Falchion (+4 to all when adjacent vs. +5 to all when damaged? I guess losing renewal is something, but still), so I’m at least going to wait and see.

            I was just listing units I have built. Like I have Anna obviously, but she’s not going near my arena line-up. I’m surprised that wind team handled the Legion GHB. With all the reinforcements, I would think that team would have to take a hit at some point, and they don’t seem like a sturdy bunch.

            I also put Drive Spd on everything. It’s great when it stacks with other speed buffs (like how my Micaiah gets 11 spd from her teammates). I would probably keep the second Ishtar around for fodder, though I don’t know of anybody in particular who might like those skills. Same with Mia in case Flashing Blade becomes useful to someone in the future. I feel for you though.

          • Shenai

            Merges don’t figure into BST at all, they’re counted separately and matter a lot. Unfortunately.

            My Amelia is alright but without an all armor team I don’t want to run her. My Anna has a pretty nice build but there’s no way she can compete with Raven. Especially in an Earth week.
            On the first try without issue. No one even has Reposition. It was mostly staying out of range of anything non-magical and tag teaming the Legions. This team really has surprised me with how very well it works. All the debuffs aren’t hurting either.
            Didn’t even put Oboro, just Ishtar.

            I never got more than the one Drive Spd to pass around, so that makes me extra reluctant to replace it on Nino. My barracks are pretty full… Already merged the Mia. I had a hell of a time finding someone for Flashing Blade last time I got a Mia (the second one), so I really didn’t see the point this time.

          • Sisyphe

            Huh I would’ve thought it would’ve mattered at least a little bit, since BST does change a bit, but it make sense that it counts separately too. Although, I subbed out an unmerged unit for my +5 Masked Marth (the Lucina I mentioned) and it looks only like 10 points or more each round from my preferred group and only about two from the group I was currently using. Still not getting to your score. I guess I have to play around with it more.

            I’ve been testing out two armors, one with March and one with Hone, along with two other units (in this case infantry, but doesn’t have to be). You might use your Amelia that way, if you’re looking for an excuse to use her.

            I believe you, but I’m still having trouble imagining it. That GHB gives me such a hard time. I doubt I would’ve been able to do that at least.

            Yeah, I guess Flashing Blade isn’t necessarily that good. Heavy Blade isn’t even really used in the A-slot anymore. Same as you I guess, I have that one Lucina, my Reinhardt is +3, and then I have a few +1s and +2s, but that’s about it. I might start merging some of the GHB units I use, since that’s really why I’m holding on to them anyway. Robin, BK, Arvis, and Camus come to mind.

          • Shenai

            10 points per round is 50 in the end though.
            But skills also play a role. The more expensive the (pre-inheritance) skill, the more points. Sacred Seals also count, and also count by skill “price” afaik.

            Yes, I might, but green means switching out Raven or Inigo so I’m not sure I want to XD I might have a try though, not like there’s much to improve where my score is concerned…

            Not sure about that. All the debuffs on that team definitely help. It means Gunnthra’s Blizzard hits extremely hard on the debuffed units. I have Res Ploy on Gunnthra + Chilling Seal. Valflame + Def Ploy on Arvis. And the Def Ploy seal on Ishtar. I know reduced defence doesn’t matter to a magic team, but it matters for Gunnthra’s damage and potentially sometimes for Felicia.
            So mostly it was a matter of baiting the magic units, staying ouf of range of any physical attacker and making sure there were always 2 units available to take out a Legion.
            But yes, I’m still surprised myself at how powerful this has turned out to be. That GHB used to give me some trouble too.

            Heavy Blade as a Seal is definitely more appealing. Flashing Blade is only good on very fast characters with long cooldown specials or that want to trigger them every engagement. But usually they’ll want something better in the A-slot to support their stats. So yeah, merged the Mia.
            Oh the precious feathers to do so. Camus would be a good project though. I guess I should focus on the units I use in arena. But that’s tricky. Raven can’t really go anywhere unless I 5* him after all. VL Ike and Inigo are very limited in availability. And my preferred 4th, Fjorm, likewise.

          • Sisyphe

            Yeah, but I usually make new teams based around whatever bonus unit I’m using that season, so it’s 50 points better than my standard group (which is what I was suggesting with Amelia) , but still not nearly enough to me up a tier. As you say, I’m sure skills and seals matter too, but I’m not going to start messing with my builds to find out how at this point.

            I understand the theory behind the debuffs, I just kind of doubt I could do it. Although. I don’t have Gunnthra, so maybe I just don’t appreciate the strength of Blizzard.

            Flashing Blade has worked for my Mia. She usually procs Luna off her first combat and kills whatever, but I guess it’s a little less necessary than Heavy Blade. I mean, if you’re fast enough to proc it reliably, then you’re probably fast enough to double, which is probably going to kill the opponent anyway, especially since the really fast units have pretty good attack too. But I don’t know.

            I’ve got about 220,000 feathers. I tend to use them unnecessarily promoting new units. I really should use them for merges and maybe inheriting weapons. I feel like I should start working toward some +10s of easily obtainable characters, even if I only have enough to max out one. It’s hard to know who will get crept though…except Reinhardt. He will probably always be good.

          • Shenai

            Ah, I do it the other way around. I have my core and see which one of them I can switch for a bonus unit that season.
            I think my Amelia wouldn’t really get that many points. I may try anyway since I’ve already put in my score. Still above the top 20% so should be smooth sailing back to Tier 19 next week. If you’re in 18 too right now and not going up, do you have any idea around where the cutoff is? The required scores definitely have gone up a lot over time.
            The double rally skills and skills like Galeforce and Aether are worth a lot. Probably stuff like Steady Breath too.

            That’s the thing though, I’ve not really done any positioning to trigger them deliberately. I’m bad at that, it just works out *g* I did Clarisse too yesterday, np. But Berkut’s map definitely doesn’t work with this team, at all. I might try with Oboro instead of Ishtar. She takes a lot of punishment to put down.
            Blizzard is a bit like a reverse Bladetome. Any debuff values are added as extra damage for her, plus you can buff her, so with active debuffs on an enemy she hits so hard. Add in the debuffs just as stat reduction and you get even more damage. Simple example, enemy has Res-5 from debuff, so Blizzard hits 5 harder in the first place + 5 points added to damage. Only if speed, defense or attack are also debuffed then that’s additional extra damage, less damage Gunnthra takes from reduced attack and more likely to double because of debuffed speed. So yes, she’s only really worth it in a debuff centric team, but then she’s super powerful.

            Heavy or Flashing Blade is mostly worth it on builds with Galeforce or Aether, maybe Ignis or Glacies.

            I’ve used some for inheriting weapons, but it always feels a bit weird.
            I guess I could try saving up for a 5* + 10 Raven, he’s common enough. Or one of the other more available characters.

          • Sisyphe

            Your way arguably makes more sense. One problem I’m having now is I don’t have enough movement skills, so that limits my teambuilding tremendously. I’m in Tier 17 now. I was unlucky that I happened to be in 18 when the format changed, but at only 3464 I’m near the very top of the tier, so I’ll probably be going up soon. I could probably settle for dipping between 17 and 18, and lose that one orb, but I guess that’s about 26 orbs per year that way, if I drop every two weeks.

            I guess Blizzard should be perfectly analogous to a Blade tome then, since a buff to atk or a debuff to res accomplish pretty much the same thing. It helps that debuffs can happen automatically now. People were freaking out about a possible Spring Catria/Gunnthra pairing because of that.

            I inherit weapons when I really want to build the character. Otherwise, it’s probably not worth the investment

          • Shenai

            I was summoning almost exclusively green recently so I got all the movement skills I needed, but you seem particularly set on Reposition. I like using that, Swap and Draw Back.
            I’m pretty high myself, but I already know from last week that this score isn’t enough to go to 20, so down from 19 again the week after ๐Ÿ™‚
            Yeah, it’s definitely nicer getting 4 Orbs. I’m a bit sad I can’t go between 19 and 20 anymore, the extra feathers were nice too.

            Yes, essentially, however I guess the debuffs are a little more advantageous to the rest of the team as well.
            I considered that, but her res is too low so I didn’t put her on the wind team.
            What people should really worry about is a spring Kagero with a Smoke Dagger + Gunnthra and a dancer, oh the carnage. Or any dagger use really, but she has good stats and maximum movement flexibility.
            I did consider it but mine is -res and with LnD that puts her res far too low to make any sense on this team.

            Don’t ask, somehow I ended up with all the bunnies from this year, while I have none from the last one. I guess it comes down to me really wanting a nice bunny Alfonse for that fire blessing horsie team. Can’t really complain, they’re all good. Kagero and Catria happened on sessions without green orbs.
            The joke will be on me when groom Marth turns out to be the best green cavalry axe.

            Likewise.

          • Sisyphe

            It’s not that I’m particularly set on Reposition so much as it’s the only one I seem able to use effectively. I can’t make use of Swap at all, and while I use Draw Back a little bit, there usually comes a point where I just wish I had Reposition instead. I don’t think one is necessarily better than another.

            You make a good point. The debuffs do benefit your whole team, which is really nice. I did not think of the Smoke Dagger at all! That does sound terrifying! Although you do need to attack to use it, I guess. Still, I would totally build that if I had a Gunnthra, although I’d probably just run Sothe in that case, since the Peshkatz also buffs (the secret to my arena team with PA Azura actually. It’s not just Gravity spam…okay it’s mostly Gravity spam, but it’s a nice fallback.

            I actually have all of the rabbits from last year and none of this year. I can’t remember what compelled me to do, but I pulled Chrom and Camilla at the time (and regret nothing), and accidentally pulled Xander and Lucina during their subsequent appearances (the Xander is -ATK, so I kind of regret that). The original art had so much more charm. Xander is covered in animals and Lucina’s hat emotes through her art. It’s lovely!

            I kind of suspect Marth will pretty good. Maybe not Black Knight good, but at least as good as Eliwood. Since he’s a Tempest Trial reward, I doubt he’ll have anything that will make you feel forced to bench Alfonse, but since I don’t have a axe cavalier promoted, I will probably appreciate him.

          • Shenai

            Ah ah, this time your comment got deleted again. And no, not surprised, but still wondering what about a long text automatically suggest “spam” to Disqus.

            Swap I generally put on tanks, so if I attack in player phase with someone frail, who won’t be able to get out of the danger zone (…) then I move my tank up and swap. If they’re enemy phase units, all the better. So it’s to me a “put someone else in attack range and protect the squishie” movement skill. Sure you can get them out of harm’s way with reposition too, but then you give up the potential enemy phase counter.
            And sometimes there are no fields you can reposition to, because of the terrain, in which case you could’ve still used swap most times.

            I did beat the Berkut GHB with the wind team with Oboro, I did it with earth too, but had to give an earth blessing to Lilina to make it work. Still working on Valter. Gunnthra was actually a bit of a liability on the Berkut map because of the red mage cavalier (with raudrwolf I think) and the firesweep bow knight. Valter’s map would just really be easier with fliers…

            Bunny Kagero with Smoke Dagger + Hit and Run, no danger, for example. I will probably give her that dagger eventually. Although with her terrible res it’s still a bit of a waste on wind team. Felicia’s Plate doesn’t offer as much of a debuff as the Smoke Dagger, but she has adaptive damage and really high res, so that’s good.

            The only (4*) Sothe I have has bad IVs or I would’ve considered him for this for sure.

            I agree that the art at least for everyone but Camilla seemed nicer than this year. From this year I think Sharena got the nicest one. But Alfonse is also pretty cute if a little weird. All in all I like them ๐Ÿ™‚

          • Sisyphe

            I think I’ve beaten all of them with Earth, because Vike is incredible and I think I’m also running a Klein there. I haven’t beaten Berkut, Valter, or Arvis with any of the others, I think, but I believe I’ve beaten the rest with all of them, even with my horribly mismanaged teams.

            I know the theory behind Swap, but somehow no one is ever in the right place for me. Reposition primarily struggles with horses, since terrain can be a limiting factor, but it’s pretty funny to chain a couple repositions together. I think I’ve just gotten really good at using the skill…

            I can’t speak on Felicia, since she is one of those units I just don’t have a good copy of (I’m not even sure what IVs I’m looking for to be honest, but she seems suitably unique enough to be fun. Her adaptive damage is always good, though now that armors have mixed bulk, it might be a little late.

            I agree that this year’s spring heroes are pretty boring. Alfonse has grown on me because of the memes, and I like Sharena’s hair. Camilla and Kagero are basically the same though, and well…there’s no more to really say on that. Catria is adorable, but the costume isn’t particularly imaginative.

            You’ll probably get a Sothe eventually. His IVs don’t matter too much, since he only has two stats, so to speak. Either ATK or SPD will do. You cannot use Hit and Run with daggers, as it turns out, but you could use Reposition ;). Even if you could, it probably wouldn’t make me want THAT Kagero. I struggle with the concept of a dagger flier in general. In fact, I’m very traditional with my classes. I still regard the GBA classes as canon, for whatever reason. None of these Malig Knights and Dark Knights and Dark Fliers and so on

          • Shenai

            He _is_ really good, isn’t he *g*
            I’ve not really paid attention to those quests yet, but now I’ll try and catch up on them, as the element weeks come up. I only did a few water ones before.

            Interesting. In the beginning I never got any reposition to inherit so I guess I just learned how to use swap well. I prefer reposition on the fliers, but even there I have swap on the designate tanky one.

            +Atk or +Spd, -Def
            I have +Atk -Def, 4* +10 (again), with Felicia’s plate (not refined yet, but will be), with Glacies (the refine gives cooldown reduction against mages), Swift Stance 2 (Spd/Res +4 when defending), Cancel Affinity 2 (don’t have 3), Drive Res 2 (might change for wind team as they don’t really need it) and Savage Blow 3 SS
            the Plate does the usual Def/Res -7 area debuff most daggers have. Comes in at 36/42/39/17/37 unbuffed. So with Gunnthra’s blessing it’s 41 res, when defending 45, which make her a great magic tank and Glacies will hit very hard. With the refine she’ll be even better at battling and especially baiting, mages. 43 speed unbuffed when defending isn’t bad either ๐Ÿ™‚ I invested in her a little because I had the skills and she seems like good fun. Which is true, especially with the new weapon.

            I got two Sothes by now, one was -spd +def and the other -def +res, so… yeah, not great.

            I knew there was something I was forgetting there with that plan *g* but I don’t think I’ll have trouble keeping flying Kagero out of trouble.

            I get the classes thing, but at the same time I loved Dark Fliers in Awakening.

          • Sisyphe

            I think I have a +SPD/-DEF Felicia. I should give her a shot. I’ve been hoarding Dew with all these random characters getting new weapons, and I still hope use Soren one day as well. I feel like SPD makes more sense, since the adaptive damage should compensate for her ATK, and she’ll want to double to get those special charges anyway. I’m a little surprised you didn’t put Fury on her. I would probably use her as player phase unit, so I might go with Death Blow or Darting Blow. I also have a random -SPD Summer Gaius from a legendary who would surely give up Def Ploy.

            My current Sothe is actually -DEF/+RES. That’s how I pulled him. I even opted not to merge him with a +SPD/-RES one, because he’s really frail as it is. If I have trouble with him, it’s having him take a hit, but he also gets a lot of offensive team support.

            I’ve never been able to effectively use any of the hybrid classes. They tend to have moderate, balanced stats and don’t level their weapons too quickly. Even in Fates, I always reclass Camilla into a Wyvern Lord and Leo into a Sorcerer. I find they need the stat changes

          • Shenai

            At 5* without merges that puts you at 37 attack, but she mostly does damage via her special. And it’s still enough against most mages since their defenses are terrible. Speed is good for sure.
            I mainly use her in enemy phase to bait mages, so Fury made no sense to me, especially since I never intended to put Desperation on her, she doesn’t have the damage output to make that worthwhile. This way she gets a nice boost to her speed and the stat her damage comes from, resistance.
            Death Blow might be better to compensate the damage but it’s a very interesting Felicia build.
            Oh what a pity, -spd on summer Gaius, his speed is pretty good without a bane.

            Well, I might consider it then ๐Ÿ™‚ But I have no attachment to him so I’m telling myself I’ll wait for one where I like the IVs better.

            I’ve never really liked Malig Knight, but I definitely love the Basara class. And Dread Fighter. And in Awakening the Bride class, despite the ridiculous outfit, kicked some serious ass. That might be my archer bias though.

          • Sisyphe

            I will probably try the +SPD Felicia at some point. Cancel Affinity seems like a good move there. I’m torn though. I thought player phase, as I said, but having an all-purpose mage baiter might be more useful. Fury would be mostly for the SPD and RES, and it would allow you to run +ATK for a nice 43 total. But since I don’t have a +ATK one right now, I’m probably not going that route.

            I pretty much refused all new classes hybrid in Fates. I don’t even know what the Basara does or who can become one (or what a Basara is). I do know I typically run Takumi, Setsuna, and Mozu as snipers in Birthright, and sometimes all three of the ninjas. Fates really loved to throw staves and occasionally tomes on some weird things.

            I never used the bride, but I’m pretty sure I had each of the men of Awakening take a turn as the Dread Fighter to get Aggressor.

          • Shenai

            Mine’s already at 42 attack, but basically, she is very frail unless tanking magic and although the plan is for her not to get hit in her case I would like to avoid the -6HP from Fury. If I had Desperation on her it’d be a different story, but she’s usually not strong enough to take a full health enemy out unless her special is charged or the enemy has bad defenses, so she’d still get hit by a counter, so it doesn’t make sense to me. But I’m sure it can be made to work, play her a bit differently. She’s very good at baiting mages. And since she does physical damage, which most mages have little defense against, she makes for a good magekiller.

            The Basara can use spears and tomes. Some of the characters it’s available to can take great advantage, it has nice growth rates to even out some of the characters that have specific weaknesses and it has the Rend Heaven skill which is just insane. I also liked the Merchant class, spears + bows.
            It could get tricky to keep up a proper army composition with too many classes to choose from as role definitions got pretty muddy, but I also found that some of the old classes didn’t have the statlines/growths I remembered and wouldn’t necessarily fill the same roles, so I tried out all the new ones. And like I said, I always like mobility so had fun playing around with additional mounted classes, whether flying or not.

            The bride was ace *g* I still have quite a few of the women in it. Maybe it’s just my thing for using archers.

          • Sisyphe

            Yeah, I can see why why Cancel Affinity would be better in that case. If she’s going to check mages, she might as well as well check them all. I definitely don’t have a Sharena to fodder, so I’ll have to improvise on the A-slot anyway. I have a random Dorcas lying around, but I don’t know if that’s the best use of Fierce Stance.

            I was actually going to mention the merchant class as one I never touched. It felt weird in universe, you don’t actually get one naturally, unless you count the children, who I did not use in Fates, and I couldn’t make sense of its skills. Plus Snipers are excellent. I definitely didn’t know it had access to spears. If I remember right, Sage (Onmyoji) and Falcon Knight are two that don’t quite function the way they used (you strike me as someone who would use Kinshi Knights — I never have). The Priestess/Great Master classes seemed like a bust to me, because Sakura and Azama didn’t effectively make use of them. I guess I find that most characters excel more at one offensive stat, such that it doesn’t really make sense to split their coverage. The physical/staff split on some classes drove me crazy.

            Virion ruined archers for me in Awakening. I never went back.

          • Shenai

            If you have anything suitable I guess anything that improves ideally speed and res, or in your case maybe attack and res, or one of those three stats, so even a plain Atk +3, may do. Fury probably would too, I just think she’s a bit too frail, but what do I know, I’ve not actually tried. Ah yes, bunny Sharena as fodder, the side effects of me going a bit crazy on the bunny banner. It was the perfect skill for Felicia though. I don’t think Fierce Stance is really worth it, probably, since it still doesn’t give her good attack. But once again, I haven’t actually tried.

            Mozu is such a beast as merchant class. And the clumsy battle animations suit her perfectly as well. For skills I actually reclassed people strategically to get some specific ones. That could get tedious though.
            Yes, the Falcon Knights were off in Awakening already, which is one reason I got started on Dark Fliers.
            I don’t actually use the Kinshi Knights. it’s sort of tempting but I think that Fates is the one game where I find fliers underwhelming on the whole, and the Kinshi Knights in particular have abysmal statlines and growths. I like the Amaterasu skill so I sometimes pick that up, but other than that I avoid the class.
            Azama is much better as a Basara, for example.
            You’re right that many characters are specialized, but some aren’t, and some can turn out better in the offensive stat that they don’t use with their starting class.
            Naw, I always appreciated having extra healers in a pinch.

            In Awakening, Libra was fantastic at the mixed damage thing. Or well, sometimes he was much better physically than magically.

            But you just said Snipers were excellent in Fates XD
            And aww, Virion was one of my favorites in Awakening. He definitely wasn’t the strongest initially but I managed to make mine very good in the end. Then again, with Awakening’s limitless leveling I managed that with anyone I liked post game…

          • Sisyphe

            I’d probably at least try Fury if I had it to give. I think 43 ATK with Fierce Stance might be worth it if I’m committed too using her in enemy phase only. I don’t really like giving up GHB units so I probably wouldn’t give her Oliver’s Swift Strike.

            I figured Mozu is your Merchant, but the thing is that she naturally reclasses to Sniper anyway. I mostly relied to spotpass or whatever to have people grind skills for me. Then I just bought them from the logbook. Of course, that leads to things like everybody having Aptitude (from hacking I guess), which can be really funny.

            My issue with the melee/staff split is in cases where the units have great magic and underwhelming strength, because they have no offense with their better stat. I don’t recall either Sumia or Cordelia having the growths to be an effective Dark Flier. Cordelia in particular is let down by her overwhelming class. She usually has great growths.

            I never used Kinshi Knights for exactly those reasons, and as I’ve mentioned, I’m usually running three archers in Birthright anyway. I just thought you might’ve tried, seeing as it seems to combine your two favorite things. Azama seems like he would be a good Basara, but I wouldn’t know whether he’s more useful with tomes than he would be as a Great Master, where he seems like a discount Oboro wirh a little bit of healing potential. But then, I never really used him.

            I never use Libra either. I have such a bias against pre-promotes by this point in the series. Plus, unlike in Fates, my Awakening roster was slowly usurped by all the children. I meant that Virion made me never want to try an archer in Awakening. I usually see something absurd like 16/27/14 STR/SKL/SPD upon promotion.

          • Shenai

            At that value it might.

            It’s not at all bad on Oboro either.

            The Dark Fliers could still uses lances, my primary concern was the improved res growth, so I could still use my pegasi the way I was used to, as magekillers. Maribelle for one could take good advantage of Dark Flier’s tomes. And of course, Galeforce is just broken. This way you could also easily pass it on to more children. My Awakening army is full of Galeforce, it’s everywhere. But Dark Flier wasn’t necessarily a final class. If we’re talking best class we’re back to bride (and dreadfighter).

            Yeah, but weirdly enough I was never much into Bow Knights either. It seems I prefer my cavalry and airforce to be melee (Dark Fliers excluded).

            Azama’s final class would probably go back to Great Master, but Basara could improve his stats and skills on the way for a few levels. Azama is incredibly tanky, so I’ve used him like that at times.

            We definitely have different preferences XD Libra and Virion both are probably my Awakening favorites (and Panne). Libra turned into an absolute monster for me. Finally left him as Dreadfighter and he’s insanely good. Not all pre-promotes are as terrible as Jagen and Marcus and their equivalents. And Virion and Libra’s support is… something *g* I have no idea about what stats are what in Awakening, I played so long post game that everyone turned into demigods. I don’t recall using archers a lot in Awakening, it may have been a bad game for them.
            And yes, the children definitely took over for me as well.

          • Sisyphe

            My Caeda only has 44 ATK. Granted she’s often buffed, but I have no problem with her damage. Gamepress recommends +SPD/-DEF. I guess her speed tiers matter. It also recommends both Fury and Cancel Affinity. I assume Oboro has more than 40 ATK though.

            That’s true. I don’t remember which Fire Emblem game began the decline of the Pegasus Knight as a magical tank. That was most of the appeal. Bow Knights are also the quintessential class that typically seems to have bad growths and caps after 8. I don’t use them either. Magic cavalry was overwhelming until the 3DS games, I felt, and I mostly used the exceptions (Priscilla and L’arachel) for healing utility. Maribelle and Elise were really powerful offensively though.

            That reminds me! You’ve never played with Clarine! In 6, Clarine (who you’ve at least seen in Heroes) is an early troubadour recruit. She has sub-25 health promoted, and usually around 12 MAG, but she is unhitable, especially with certain supports that are really easy to get for her. Late game she’ll be surrounded by enemies that will one-shot her if they hit, but they will have sub-10 hit percentages, and she’ll just chip away at them with her weak Fire spell (because of weight and tome skill). It’s one of the craziest things in the series I think.

            I rarely felt like I had to change classes a lot in Fates. I mostly just go through the game and use the units I want. I tried to do Apotheosis in Awakening, but I could only grind for so many Limit Breakers. I gave up. In Awakening, I used Tharja a ton, and then Henry, with all the broken dark magic. After that, Rally Spectrum Robin and Morgan (you might not play as male Robin, so I don’t know if you’ve done this, but Galeforce Morgan is crazy. Gets a kill and then spectrums on her second move (I love Morgan). Libra seems like he’d make a good Dread Fighter. I know not all pre-promotes are bad — I use Pent religiously (and any late game mage with staff support) You probably didn’t use archers much because Virion is the only natural archer in the game…(love the character, not the unit).

          • Shenai

            Have fun then and tell me how it goes ๐Ÿ™‚
            Ah, the Oboro comment was in regards to merchant class and Fates.

            L’Arachel was mostly a healer for me too, but Priscilla could do both offense and support effortlessly. Maribelle was just awesome all over.

            Oh I’ve used Clarine a lot in heroes, and of course, know her parents.
            That sounds like what I do with Nino in FE 7 (I usually keep the Afa’s drops for her and watch her become invincible). Only she hits harder.

            I’ve not tried Apotheosis, although I guess I probably have the units for it.
            I don’t even remember right now, but I guess Robin was my parent gen MVP and then of course, the kids. And anyone with Galeforce. I played through once as female Robin, and started another playthrough as male Robin (you get very used to playing as male when you’re not…) and got almost to the end but didn’t recruit the kids, so I have no experience with female Morgan. Got Galeforce on my first Robin though ๐Ÿ˜‰ and a lot of the kids.
            Love Pent, though I only used him about half the time.
            Maybe, but I could’ve reclassed. Virion ended up a Wyvern Lord.

          • Sisyphe

            I…can’t imagine Merchant Oboro (and definitely not Wyvern Lord Virion). I tend to only run characters in their traditional classes with limited exceptions.

            My L’arachel was the more functional offensive unit for me compared to Priscilla. I mostly just use Priscilla because I was told I should. She’s never really turned out spectacularly for me, and I don’t usually need healers in 7 once all my mages promote. I imagine that’s not the case on Hector hard, but I’ve only played that once, when I was much younger, and it was a scarring experience. I’m also not sure how you’re supposed to have it interact with Lyn’s mode. For example, having a leveled Dorcas makes Hector’s mode significantly easier to start, but I never use him in Lyn’s mode, and there’s not enough experience in her mode for all her characters anyway.

            It’s hard to appreciate Clarine if you’ve only seen her in Heroes because Heroes has no dodging mechanic. 6 is a much less forgiving game than 7, (and also more extreme, which makes it fun. For example, your swordmaster could have achieve a 100% critical rate with weapons, stats, and supports a certain way), so every enemy throughout the game will destroy Clarine if they can. Nino is an endgame unit obviously, so you get less time with her, and her health is usually in the low 30s for me (unlike Clarine’s 22-26 range), so she can tank some hits. Plus, there’s just something funny about watching Clarine poke everyone to death.

            Morgan powercreeps Robin more than anything that has happened in Heroes so far, but I guess that’d be true for the male one too, so it’s really only about whether you’ve tried her with Galeforce. I guess it’s true though that a female Robin will also have Galeforce, and then I think it could still be passed down to a male Robin anyway, but I don’t remember for sure. I will almost always play a game as a female character if it changes the events at all, but yeah, I’m very aware of the massive gender imbalance across gaming. I’ve done a few female Robin playthroughs.

            Pent is a great character, and I find he’s always useful for his staves. I just keep him supplied with Physic all game.

          • Shenai

            Well, she’s still got a lance, so it’s not that weird. I’ll give you Virion. But at some point post game I think my initial savegame of Awakening had most characters go through almost all of their class options once… I don’t know either.

            I was going to ask what class you promoted them to but then I remembered that you get no choice in FE 7 (oh how nice it was to not have to think about it). What about L’Arachel though? I’ve always preferred the Valkyrie.
            I’ve never put myself through Hector Hard mode so no idea.

            The no dogding thing is good and bad both. Recently I went back and finally finished Echoes after my n3DS was repaired and it took quite some getting used to the mechanics again after playing Heroes so much this past year.
            100% critical is crazy *g* But then I was playing Divinity Original Sin 2 a lot earlier this year and there are certain builds in it you also definitely want to push towards critical hit rates of 70-80%.
            Yes, maybe, but Nino never gets hit either. Poking enemies to death sounds great though.

            I can’t tell anymore with so many units having maxed all their stats or that + limit breaker. But you’re right, I checked, I inherited Galeforce to male Morgan ๐Ÿ™‚
            I don’t actually mind playing as a male character, I just always have to roll my eyes quite hard when for once the only option is female and the predictable whining and complaining of a certain demographic starts and the “how are we supposed to identify with this” because… really…? We’re still all people and the other half of the population seems to have done fine for centuries or more. Because let’s face it, that imbalance isn’t present only in games. But like I said, generally I don’t mind at all. Rather, sometimes it can be worse to have a female protagonist written in a terrible way. But I digress, sorry *g*
            If there’s a game with both options like FE where it matters I generally do both at some point as well. And Fire Emblem has been pretty good about keeping a balance anyway (if not in lords then in general cast).

          • Sisyphe

            Maybe it’s because the Merchant looks so dopey and Oboro is so intense. For Virion, I mean, he’s the archest of archers after all. A wyvern just wouldn’t do.

            If I remember correctly, the Mage Knight and Valkyrie have identical stat spreads, so it’s really a matter of what advantages each weapon type has. I think I chose Mage Knight because anima magic is cool, but canonically she’s probably a Valkyrie, and I’d probably pick that now in case I wanted to use Purge in the post-game. It has a much better hit rate than Bolting.

            I’m surprised you didn’t do Hector Hard Mode. I generally assume most (pre-3DS) Fire Emblem fans are pretty hardcore strategy gamers. It’s not *that* hard, given that I could struggle through it. I’m occasionally tempted to give it another shot, but the late maps were traumatizing. Imagine Cog of Destiny but all magic units, or Sands of Time with about 500 status staves. Blazing Blade is kind of uncomfortably easy otherwise though. I think Sacred Stones hard mode is harder than Blazing Blade’s other modes, or at least as difficult.

            It’s interesting you bring up the dodging. I’m never sure how I feel about a strategy game having such a heavy RNG component, now that I’ve seen the other side. The big thing I think about is the critical rate. I wonder if Fire Emblem would benefit from Heroes’ special system. That would have its own difficulties of course, but I find criticals pretty easy to take advantage of late game, and rage-inducing when they happen to you (we all have a 1% critical story).

            I think what it is with Clarine is that reinforcements appear at the start of enemy phase in FE6, so there are times where she’s surrounded by 6-8 wyverns or something out of nowhere, and she will be stuck there, and also not in any danger. And then she’ll just slowly poke them to death (or run out Fire tomes). Nino just blows enemies up. I wonder if you’ll ever meet Rutger (via Heroes). He’s the token Myrmidon in 6 and he’s usually just ridiculous. His growths are so good that he will cap STR and approach 50 HP and 20 DEF as a Swordmaster. Fir is…much worse typically.

            I kind of get the “how are we supposed to identify with this?” whining and kind of don’t. On the one hand it’s disingenuous. They’re really whining about not being able to fulfill whatever power fantasy they have. So that make sense, in a way… If the only difference between the character you create is gender, then I’ll pick a male character, unless I prefer the art or character creation options for the female options more. Beyond that, I think stereotypes have me favor female characters usually. Female characters are usually written to be quieter, more inquisitive, thoughtful, even academic, and they’re often more likely to be connected to magic. Those traits tend to resonate with me more than the kind of brash, loud masculinity that stereotypical male characters have. Of course, obviously characters come in all types.

            I think we’re due for a strong leading female lord, even if they’ve done a good job representing different types of characters throughout the series. Of course, now I want to pivot into gushing about Micaiah again (or Sanaki and Elincia), but I should probably stop referring to things you don’t know, especially if I’m going to keep telling you how great they are. I’m setting you up to be disappointed. I will say that while Ike is the “Lord” of the Tellius games, there are a lot of characters, subplots, and character arcs, and many seem to get nearly as much time.

          • Sisyphe

            Maybe it’s because the Merchant looks so dopey and Oboro is so intense. For Virion, I mean, he’s the archest of archers after all. A wyvern just wouldn’t do.

            If I remember correctly, the Mage Knight and Valkyrie have identical stat spreads, so it’s really a matter of what advantages each weapon type has. I think I chose Mage Knight because anima magic is cool, but canonically she’s probably a Valkyrie, and I’d probably pick that now in case I wanted to use Purge in the post-game. It has a much better hit rate than Bolting.

            I’m surprised you didn’t do Hector Hard Mode. I generally assume most (pre-3DS) Fire Emblem fans are pretty hardcore strategy gamers. It’s not *that* hard, given that I could struggle through it. I’m occasionally tempted to give it another shot, but the late maps were traumatizing. Imagine Cog of Destiny but all magic units, or Sands of Time with about 500 status staves. Blazing Blade is kind of uncomfortably easy otherwise though. I think Sacred Stones hard mode is harder than Blazing Blade’s other modes, or at least as difficult.

            It’s interesting you bring up the dodging. I’m never sure how I feel about a strategy game having such a heavy RNG component, now that I’ve seen the other side. The big thing I think about is the critical rate. I wonder if Fire Emblem would benefit from Heroes’ special system. That would have its own difficulties of course, but I find criticals pretty easy to take advantage of late game, and rage-inducing when they happen to you (we all have a 1% critical story).

            I think what it is with Clarine is that reinforcements appear at the start of enemy phase in FE6, so there are times where she’s surrounded by 6-8 wyverns or something out of nowhere, and she will be stuck there, and also not in any danger. And then she’ll just slowly poke them to death (or run out Fire tomes). Nino just blows enemies up. I wonder if you’ll ever meet Rutger (via Heroes). He’s the token Myrmidon in 6 and he’s usually just ridiculous. His growths are so good that he will cap STR and approach 50 HP and 20 DEF as a Swordmaster. Fir is…much worse typically.

            I kind of get the “how are we supposed to identify with this?” whining and kind of don’t. On the one hand it’s disingenuous. They’re really whining about not being able to fulfill whatever power fantasy they have. So that make sense, in a way… If the only difference between the character you create is gender, then I’ll pick a male character, unless I prefer the art or character creation options for the female options more. Beyond that, I think stereotypes have me favor female characters usually. Female characters are usually written to be quieter, more inquisitive, thoughtful, even academic, and they’re often more likely to be connected to magic. Those traits tend to resonate with me more than the kind of brash, loud masculinity that stereotypical male characters have. Of course, obviously characters come in all types.

            I think we’re due for a strong leading female lord, even if they’ve done a good job representing different types of characters throughout the series. Of course, now I want to pivot into gushing about Micaiah again (or Sanaki and Elincia), but I should probably stop referring to things you don’t know, especially if I’m going to keep telling you how great they are. I’m setting you up to be disappointed. I will say that while Ike is the “Lord” of the Tellius games, there are a lot of characters, subplots, and character arcs, and many seem to get nearly as much time.

    • speedster

      I’d PM you if I could but Discus doesn’t have that feature. I’d been meaning to say this for a long time, but it always slips my mind, but here it goes. I owe you- no, to every Camilla/Tharja fan out there, an apology for how I behaved during CYL2 voting. I was acting like a shithead biggot and a prick for trying to discredit and bash Camilla/Tharja. I don’t expect to be forgiven, but you and every other fan of them deserve at least get an apology from me

      • mrkisukes

        All is forgiven, I don’t like holding grudges anyways. I myself am guilty of doing a similar thing to Celica and her fans and if you are one of those people, I also apologize.

        • speedster

          it’s okay. i don’t mind

  • Shenai

    Thanks for the summary ๐Ÿ™‚ Seems to be a lot going on.
    I wonder what the Voting Gauntlet will be, though it may well turn out to be the brides from last year vs. whatever new special heroes are coming.

  • speedster

    I hope to god Leif isn’t on the BHB banner. I don’t want to get pitied by Seliph

  • Bongo Beans

    Who will be the reward unit from the Legendary hero battle I wonder, or will that be more like a bound hero battle?