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    Radiant Dawn

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  1. Arena Discussion Thread (Team, Score, Rank, etc)

    1,2, Why would difficult units to deal with be special if you're deliberately gimping your team? Like, a team of 3 TA-3 reds and a weaponless bonus unit could consistently deathless---it's a harder challenge, and certain blues would be a nightmare---but blue units aren't 'special' just because they happened to be difficult for that team. (You can even run CA on one of those TA-3 reds just to satisfy the 'challenge rule' while 'optimizing' for the 'constraint.') Horses giving less arena score is a real concern---mostly valid for the first team in Arena Assault than regular arena, however, since you can comfortably stay in T20 even with a horse heavy team. Past the point where arena score matters---rounds 2 to 7 in AA, sufficient to T20, literally only performance matters. (Or personal preference, but personal preference does not belong in a discussion of whether a certain unit is difficult to deal with. TA-3 Linde is difficult for Leo to deal with, but that doesn't mean it's a difficult unit-build to deal with.) 3, This was only a challenge because your team gimped itself. Positioning based debuffs is trivial with sufficient mobility. Like, anything that can shoot/fly across bridges? No problem being debuffed since they can just stand on the other bridge. 4, That's still a problem you made for yourself. -blade tomes, dazzling staves, firesweeps, Sacae's Blessing, ultra-high attack brave users. The game abounds with ways that trivialize low mobility counter-kill units. But the problem with Ayra isn't that she's a low mobility counter-kill unit, it's that there are high mobility counter-kill units out there, with better matchups on both sides. (Leo, for example. Ayra wins in reliability, thanks to the fact that she doesn't need to be buffed, but, even as your example showed, she actually needed her support to be threatening. She did not have the stats to 1v1 Sigurd if her support units were taken out beforehand. Nor does she have the mobility to support her own supporters---trying to nuke a horse team's buffers is harder than trying to nuke an infantry or armor team's because horses cover each other better.) In starcraft BW terms? She's the Battlecruiser in the TvP matchup. Slow, lumbering, and wrecked by just about anything the protoss player usually builds. Dragoons trade cost and supply effectively, high templar storms murder them (they can survive quite a few, but they'll eat tons since they can't fly away fast enough), Arbiters freeze all of them with a single stasis, Dark Archons have Mind Control---although DAs are very rare---etc. etc. A slow, weak unit. 5, A particular unit not being challenging for a particular team is also not a reason to say it's easy. The triple TA-3 red team I mentioned? 0 problems with Cecilia, or Hector, or B!Ike but that doesn't mean Cecilia, Hector, and B!Ike are bad. (Which, mind, they are, just not because they lose to triple TA-3. Or rather, not only because they lose to triple TA-3). A defense unit has to be rated on what it actually does, in terms of matchups, support utility, or taking space---that is, threatening ORKOs or cripples on units that stand where they want to stand. The Ayra you fought has very good matchups, nearly jack all in terms of support utility---she has spur def/res and rally atk/spd---one of which is very heavily positioning dependent, the other one costs her action turn, and is about as good as an armor at taking space (that is, not at all). Hector, for example, has okay to very good matchups, nearly jack all (but still better than Ayra, because he has the hp for panic ploy, and Type Buff access) in terms of support utility, and no ability to take space whatsoever. Leo, for example, has very good matchups, decent support utility (on the level of Eirika, his buffs are stronger, but more limited, and his assist skills are better---since he has better positioning skills and better rallies, due to how far he can move to use those assist skills---but a tier worse than, say, Axe!Azura), and the maximum possible ability to take space. It's hard to see that Leo has this, because he has a very high support requirement---due to needing buffs to reach his peak, whereas Ayra is near her peak even without buff. The problem is that Ayra at her peak is still kind of a joke, whereas Leo at his peak sees 80% of the cast as ORKOs on both phases, with a Horse Mage's threat range.
  2. I misread Dark Great Sword (it's Swift Sparrow rather than Sturdy Blow), meaning it's quite a bit better than I thought, but that doesn't change the fact that B!Roy's sword is the better Prf. Swift Sparrow is worth slightly less than a skill slot (because it's a weak skill, out competed by Fury 3 and L&D 3), whereas Heavy Blade is worth a full skill slot (otherwise we wouldn't be spending an S-slot on it), and Atk +3, surprisingly enough, is worth about half a skillslot (+3 Atk is half of DB3---a bit better, actually, since it works on defense, but we're using napkin math). This means B!Roy's sword is about half a skillslot better than Siegbert's. This is actually kind of hard to beat completely, even with a more min-maxed spread thanks to higher BST. If you wanted to slap on Quick Pulse (turning Galeforce from 5 to 4 cd, thereby allowing it to proc even versus ranged units), the effects are clear. It becomes A-slot & Atk +3 versus Swift Sparrow. You might note that, even in the worst case for a quick pulse build, you can just slap Swift Sparrow in the A-slot and get, more or less, a 39/38 B!Roy versus a 38/39 Siegbert. Because Siegbert has to take Heavy Blade in the A-slot if he wanted to run Quick Pulse. B!Roy is far closer to a 35/34 unit when compared to Siegbert than 'just' a 32/34, because his Prf is about half a skill slot stronger. You might note that 35/34 vs. 34/35 is nearly identical. Siegbert is the better unit in general, because he has more stats, and his bulk is more min-maxed, but in offense builds he's not strictly superior. B!Roy is better at L&D mage killing because, if Siegbert wanted to trigger Galeforce vs. mages, he has to run quick pulse in the S-slot. L&D is better than Swift Sparrow by 2 points in terms of Atk/Spd, meaning Siegbert's better bulk has to do a lot of work to equalize. I mean, maybe you only ever use Galeforce versus melee units, so you don't think about what happens when they smack a unit that can't counter, but saying 'strictly' better on player phase when Siegbert is flat out worse versus non-countering units, because he can't trigger Galeforce without sacrificing his A-slot for Heavy Blade, makes me wonder if you ever actually used a Galeforce unit.
  3. It's difficult to imagine Owl tomes ever generating enough stats to make them preferable over -blades, particularly for armor mages, who are naturally more resistant to panic ploy---because they have good hp. It gets even worse once you realize the best way to use armored mages on defense teams is a combination of CC Vantage---for excellent 'last one standing' sweeps---and either CC Bold Fighter, or some kind of stat A-slot Bold Fighter, for ORKOs versus basically everything. -Blade, Moonbow, Bold Fighter should annihilate literally everything in Armor!Tharja's hands. B!Lyn doesn't have the stats to avoid the ORKO from unbuffed Tharja, and Deidre and Julia are green. (Mind, it might be possible to stack enough Res to avoid the ORKO, but I doubt it, seeing how Bold Fighter means Tharja gets to fire off a Moonbow.) The only reason I use Owl tomes is because I prefer using a unit's default weapon if possible. (-Atk Leo, unfortunately, does not qualify, seeing how Elise kind of owns him in the 'gravity everyone and provide magical chip' role.)
  4. How so? Heavy Blade B!Roy never did anything a ridiculously fast brave user couldn't in terms of Galeforce. It's one of the few reasons to run someone like Cordelia over Rein, sure, she has 2 less reach, which hurts like hell, but Galeforce is the only way to generate extra action turns. Unlike dancing, which only generates extra movement turns---the action turn is simply transfered. He was good at it because of his spread, 32/34 is quite good for cavalry, and he has barely passable levels of physical bulk as well---it's worse than Reinhardt's, but comparing Rein to anything, even other horse units, is kind of unfair. And a 19 MT sword and an S-slot is damn hard to beat. Siegbert has 20 MT on offense, sure, but costing an S-slot means that he's actually trading 2 MT for 4 defense, assuming you didn't want something like quick pulse in the S-slot, which would end up costing an A-slot instead, even more costly in terms of stats. And that's just with a Atk +3 seal, if we get better ones, then, ignoring the fact that Reinhardt would be even more dominant, Siegbert and anyone else without a special charge skill built into their Prf would be even worse off relative to B!Roy.
  5. Arena Discussion Thread (Team, Score, Rank, etc)

    I mean, CC Reinhart OHKOs that on the counter. And on offense. 69 (51 + .4 * 47) damage is barely cutting it even versus Reinhardt's base 65 ehp at +0, no buffs, much less after triangle disadvantage. (How does Sigurd die to her, by the way? 51 + 47*.4 = 69, and Sigurd has 41 + 34 = 75 ehp. She needs +4/+3 buffs or better to OHKO, and that's versus +0, buffless Sigurd.) Hell, even Leo can handle that, because 32 + 13 + 30 = 75 damage, and 50 + 22 = 72 hp for Ayra. If enemy buffs are the problem, then you just send Leo/Rein to nuke the dudes buffing Ayra on player phase---or just nuke Ayra straight out, if the buffers are less dangerous on enemy phase than Ayra herself. The problem with builds like this is that teams with great mobility and okay matchups destroy teams with great matchups but only mediocre mobility. The team with better mobility will always dictate which engagements happen, so, unless your matchups are so ridiculously good that all your units units beat all of theirs, the more mobile team would just give you all your losing matchups while running away from your winning matchups. The fact that Reinhardt has the best matchup spread in the game is also a problem, but even if we removed -blade tomes the mobility advantage is still there---just more fragile, balanced, because he doesn't get to have his cake (best offenses in the game, thanks to best mobility and acceptable offensive matchup spread) and eat it too (the best defensive matchup spread). It's basically a starcraft thing: More mobile units have to be weaker than less mobile units. If a immobile unit is weaker than a more mobile unit, the immobile unit will never be built---because it's fucking terrible. If a weak unit isn't more mobile than a stronger unit, then the weak unit will never be built---because it's fucking terrible. Reinhardt's very existence means that you have to be better than, or at least orthogonal to him in terms of matchups, because otherwise you don't have a reason to exist. Range horse is the best mobility in the game, meaning anything less mobile must have better matchups to be worthwhile. And -blade tomes are fucking hard to beat, offensively or defensively. (Dire Thunder is also hard to beat, being the second strongest brave weapon after Amiti, but at least brave weapons are only insane offensively, meaning counter kill sets have orthogonal matchups.) [Note: Fortunately, only Dire Thunder Reinhardt is popular, and B!Lyn doesn't have the spread to run counter-kill sets. So it's almost like -blade Reinhardt and Leo don't exist, and thus don't need to be accounted for. You can't realize your unit is bad if everyone else is running units just as bad, after all.]
  6. Arena Discussion Thread (Team, Score, Rank, etc)

    Oh god, I love the way people are using CC on their defense teams. CC B!Lyn, CC B!Cordelia, CC random shit that gets nothing, NOTHING, from being able to counter melees, because they have 0 physical bulk. Hahahaha. Seriously, Christmas Tharja's default set is one of the most difficult defense sets to beat, thanks to her sheer bulk and OHKO potential, but they give that up to gimp their glass cannons.
  7. Arena Discussion Thread (Team, Score, Rank, etc)

    I meant a ranged unit that the dragon team can't counter attack themselves, due to sweep/dazzling effect, not the fact that they're ranged units that can't counter-attack dragons. As in, they're hard to deal with because dragons can't just counter-kill them like other stuff, hence why they have to OHKO on player phase---otherwise everyone gets gets debuffed anyway. Fair, although I think L&D A!Tiki could reasonably secure ORKOs---because dragon team has a fairly consistent panic ploy on ranged units, who don't get 5 hp from weapon forges, meaning we'll have buff and A-slot advantage to secure the double. Getting gravity'd sucks, but a proper reposition chain can get A!Tiki out still---assuming the enemy team only has the 1 ranged, running into multiple Jakobs or Henrys would suck. Actually, now that I think about it. Jakob kind of ruins the stack merges until our problems are gone plan. : / He can run firesweep bow even in the 750 tier, I'd assume.
  8. Nah, the simplest way would be to drop the -5 Speed penalty from Dire Thunder. If you're getting quadded by Rein just because he got 5 more speed you deserve to die, whereas Olwen will appreciate it a lot.
  9. Arena Discussion Thread (Team, Score, Rank, etc)

    Uh, don't dragons OHKO mist? She has 59 physical bulk, which isn't that hard. I'm not saying that it's hard for player phase teams to kill mist, I'm talking about a dragon team right now, which I'm assuming is typical enemy phase stuff with lightning breath and whatever. And, even though Mist is one of the hardest enemies for them to face, being a ranged unit they can't counter attack, they can still deal with her because they can either---never see her at all---or see her in such low quantities that the effect isn't as large. Dragon Team vs. 1 Mist is smack that mist to death and go back to normal play. Dragon Team vs. 4 Mists is just crying---maybe, depending on how good the Mist is at smacking dragons to death on enemy phase---but you should be able to get out of that score range, at least.
  10. Godin also has a workable base set, you know? Atk +3 isn't that much worse than DB 3, and he has BB at base. I'd just promote him and eat the -3 Atk compared to DB 3.
  11. You never pulled a +Atk Virion? Guy's crazy min-maxed, you know. (A lot of BB users don't actually fare well vs. DC users, since they get OHKOd, but Virion has 46/26 bulk on top of 31/31 offenses, because fair and balanced.)
  12. Arena Discussion Thread (Team, Score, Rank, etc)

    Celica has a Prf, though. (And is it a team full of mages or just Celica? Because 1 mage in a team of melees is a lot easier to deal with than a mage in a team of mages, since melees have a harder time getting revenge kills if you manage to kill Celica on player phase.) Is it just the one ranged unit, or is it Fjorm + 3 ranged? Since 3 melees +1 range just means the ranged get smacked to death on player phase, and the murderer just gets repositioned away to safety. I mean, if your dragon team isn't merged up enough to pull out of the anything goes place, using a dragon team is just a personal preference rather than a strategic choice. Since you can get into the same score range with a team of say, cavalry mages that are highly merged if you felt like that. Edit: Also, hi. (RL killing my free time right now, so we probably won't be getting into page long arguments. Which I'm sure everyone else appreciates, haha.)
  13. I would honestly sacrifice B!Lyn for Atk Smoke before swift sparrow. Between L&D and Fury 3 there's very, very few niches where Swift Sparrow is even relevant. If 5 Def/5 Res is worth more than 1 Atk/ 1 Spd, then there's a good chance 3 Def / 3 Res is also worth more than 1 Atk/ 1 Spd, in which case you go Fury. (Fury, incidentally, also helps open up a little more enemy phase. Not much, but not much is still better than the no help at all on enemy phase that swift sparrow gives.) If 5 Def/ 5 Res is worth less than 1 Atk/ 1 Spd, you go L&D. Atk Smoke, at least, has the interesting niche where a unit can run in, ORKO someone, and use the -7 Atk to live through a single round of combat. Swift Sparrow is just a *shrugg* kind of skill. If you value 4* Hinata and 5* Hana over B!Lyn, by all means, feed her to whoever you want (I'd go with M!Corrin, probably, and pray Yato gets an upgrade.) Atk Smoke Rogue Dagger honestly seems like a way more fun build to play with if you really wanted to fodderize B!Lyn, though. +6/+6 Def/Res, -7/-0/-6/-6 in an AoE seems pretty neat if have a shuriken user with good bulk. Main problem is that Jakob looks like the best person for this kind of build, and he doesn't actually ORKO very well---meaning his target gets to smack him back before he gets his buffs up, and Atk Smoke doesn't work on the direct target.
  14. Arena Discussion Thread (Team, Score, Rank, etc)

    Main problem is the Swift Blade & Moonbow combo. Or rather, the Swift Blade & Moonbow & Sweep combo. Soren can't double, so Moonbow can't trigger. If he's smacked on enemy phase, he counters with a Moonbow, but he would've countered with that regardless of whether or not he had swift blade. (Because you get +1 from being smacked.) On the other hand, if you get to smack twice on player phase... Why the hell are you not just running Death Blow 3? That's twelve damage in 2 hits, you need to be smacking someone with forty Res for Swift Blade to be worth it. And I honestly wouldn't know about sweeps being annoying on defense teams---my teams drown in mobility because of my personal preferences---but watersweep Soren just flat out doesn't seem threatening. Going egg means you don't get the +20 or whatever Atk from -blade, add that to the fact that you can't double and it means you aren't ORKOing anything. A unit that can't kill on his unit-turn is basically forcing the defense team into a 3v4, which tends to be fairly trivial. (I mean, it might be kind of annoying to dragon emblem, seeing how their mobility is comparable to armor emblem, but one of the main draws of dragon emblem is that you can just BST your way out of seeing mages at all, since mages give less arena score.)
  15. Are Firesweeps overrated?

    -Blade and Cavalry buffs also cripple dragons with impunity---you don't get countered if the other guy's dead. Leo & Rein has perfect color coverage because Reinhardt is strong enough to OHKO every single unit in the game if color advantage didn't exist. (He doesn't even need his A-slot to do this, which is why I keep going on about his CC build---he sacrifices literally nothing for this, the only people he doesn't kill are people the A-slot doesn't help against anyway.) Leo is Rein with 3 less Atk, and red.