soly

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  1. The Pairing Thread

    Gaius!Noire's three (four) major sets are Sniper, Assassin, Bow Knight (and Bride, but you're no DLC) with 44/50/45/(46) speed in order, or 54/60/55/(56) with Rallies and Spe Tonic and 62/68/63/(64) with a Berserker pocket (Yarne). Assassin seems attractive, but you won't have the Def to live Anna's Aether anyway (even with the Knight's Def+2 skill) which means it's mostly for doubling Thronie. If it were me, I'd probably favour Sniper in the general case and only pick Bow Knight if you need her to double Invincisorc - which shouldn't be the case. Gaius!Noire Sniper x Berserker doesn't really do anything particularly special in terms of speed but she's good at what she does.
  2. The Pairing Thread

    Dual Support+ only affects the unit in front, so no. It's still fine as filler skill 5. If you're doing Severa x Gerome, you can probably do Vaike!Gerome with his Breaker skills; I really do consider them very good and I honestly just don't hesitate to do so if I need Henry elsewhere.
  3. The Pairing Thread

    Yes, this is after Rallies and Spe tonic - though I think I forgot to give Severa Def Tonic so you might be able to drop Defender no matter what. Ugh, def tonic, now I need to recheck a lot of my calculations. My bad, I did give her Def Tonic. 34 base Def, +8 Rallies, +2 Tonic, +1 Defender puts her neatly at 48 Def. Virion!Yarne is always going to have the edge on accuracy, gaining +35 hit on player phase (Prescience, Hit Rate +20), but Gerome edges him on damage (+3 Str) and has good hit on specific targets (due to breaker skills). Vaike!Gerome will basically always carry Axebreaker and Lancebreaker, I think, alongside Axefaire, Str+2, filler, so if you keep him on those weapon types he'll be better, but Virion!Yarne will edge him on things like Invincisorcs and Celica's Sages in wave 4. +Spe on Apo challenge runs is pretty staple. Morgan will have 48 Spe as a Sage, 58 after Rally and Tonic, so given a Dark Flier he's hitting 66 Spe (not doubled by Anna). Check if he lives Aether (48 Def) but if you're using Stahl!Severa it doesn't matter. Your alternative is to go Grandmaster to boost a female Sage to a higher Spe tier, but most of the female Sages don't really care unless you can give them double-Thronie (69 Spe) or Anna survival (66 Spe 48 Def). You don't really have that much business being that much faster than 60 Spe anyway. +Mag Morgan has a 4 Spe modifier and is just fast enough to reach 60 Spe with a Sage and Defender. This also has knock-on effects with Lucina (who's now locked into magic), but if she gets Laurent she doesn't care as much. Obviously Morgan's girlfriend is going to depend on whether he's physical or magical as well as whether he needs to get +Spe from a class bonus or not... Henry!Cynthia is good on magic galeboys for the most part, and you can go Donnel!Kjelle on physical ones maybe. Nah will be good on Morgan either way - since Morgan won't necessarily need +Spe as a Sage, Nah's free to take someone like Libra for +Mag mod instead of requiring Henry's Valkyrie inheritance (important since you're probably requiring Henry!Cynthia). And as physical she has dads like Vaike and Gregor to pick from.
  4. The Pairing Thread

    No DLC Apoth is doable with Chrobin + other kids for sure @ChickenWings. If you don't have any major objections, you can try packing Stahl!Severa, too, Stahl!Sev @ Assassin can ORKO both Thronie and Anna on Enemy Phase (if her Berserker doesn't Dual Guard for her). Set is Assassin pocket Berserker, Galeforce/Vengeance/Bowfaire/Spe +2/Defender to hit 48 Def (survives Anna's Aether) and 69 Spe (doubles Thronie; Severa actually reaches 70 Spe with this set). You can drop Defender if Olivia Special Dances for Severa.
  5. The Pairing Thread

    yeah that's more or less what you're looking at; Luna + Astra, just solo Luna with filler (if you don't have Astra), or Vengeance with filler. You can filler All Stats +2 if you hit a new speed tier; even if you don't it's still okay filler but if you don't go up a speed tier I might filler Anathema instead. One notable Sniper unit who *does* go up a speed tier with All Stats +2 is Gaius!Noire who reaches 74 Spe with a Berserker, and 76 with All Stats +2. Additionally I'll note that Berserker hard supports are really best behind bow users, so Gerome only gains +10 Hit from Anathema; he only gains +25 hit if he gets Hex in addition but Hex only triggers at range 1 so melee units. If Nah is going to a magic Galeboy I personally just do Henry!Nah and Vaike!Gerome; I've learned not to underestimate Gerome's Breaker skill access - it's one of the gems in his class list. This can kinda go either way though and if you're dropping Nah and her boyfriend then it doesn't matter nearly as much. They can V/V Apotheosis as Sniper/Sage. Aside from that idk what kind of challenges you're looking at o.O but if you're talking about Chrobin as a pairing in general for challenge runs in general (and not like soloing Apotheosis with Chrobin), it's fine for nearly everything. Maybe not if you're like dropping both DLC skills and Rallies but that's pretty insane. For something like no other DLCs it's still fine, though you'll also want to be optimising your other pairings.
  6. The Pairing Thread

    Inigo has Barbarian base, so he has native access to both Berserker (which drops him Axefaire) and Warrior (which I'm suggesting as a possible finisher). Usually staffbots are spotpass units in Falcon Knight or Valkyrie (latter with Acrobat). You can use parents if you want, but aim for one of those two classes, probably favour Falcon since your Valkyries don't have Thief for Acrobat. Your child units are all good (save possibly Vaike!Nah; Nah wants to support a Galeboy, Vaike!Nah wants to support a physical Galeboy, and Fred!Inigo isn't worthy of a hard support also his support line with Nah is trash), so now it's just a matter of pairing them up. For the most part, you can just pair physical units to physical units, and magical units to magical units, then call it a day. Units which can use either physical or magical sets (eg. Sumia!Lucina can run both physical Sniper and magical Dark Flier/Sage) like to be paired to similar units (Gregor!Laurent and Henry!Gerome can both Berserker and Sage) but don't consider this necessary. If you want to get into a bit more detail, look for speed tiers. Use https://serenesforest.net/awakening/characters/maximum-stats/complete/ to get your units' base speed (for example, LQ!Brady has 46 Spe as a Sage). Add 10 for Limit Breaker, 10 for Rally Spe Heart Spectrum, and 2 for the Speed Tonic consumable item for a total of +22 on all units, putting Brady at 68 Spe. Then add the speed from his pair-up partner (see https://serenesforest.net/awakening/miscellaneous/pair-up/ for details). If you've done your math right, you'll see that Dark Fliers pass +8 Spe as pair-up partners, so Brady will reach 76 Spe if he has a Dark Flier in his pocket. Benchmarks to aim for are 75 Spe (doubles all enemies), 69 Spe (doubles all enemies less wave 5 boss, wave 2 boss and his wave 5 boss rush clone), and 66 (not doubled by any enemy, doubles almost all enemies). If you're playing without DLC, aim for 60 Spe (doubles most enemies). It's more important for spellcasters (like LQ!Brady) and bow users (like Stahl!Severa and Gaius!Noire) to reach 75 and 69 Spe than it is for sword, lance, and axe users, who are generally content with settling down at 66 Spe. As for final classes, Sage on spellcaster boys like LQ!Brady, Dark Flier on caster girls paired to galeforce caster boys (like Chrom!Cynthia whose boyfriend is LQ!Brady). Put Bowfaire on your better physical units (Stahl!Severa, Gaius!Noire) and rely on mooksweepers like Fred!Inigo and Donnel!Kjelle to bring the melee damage with axes/lances/swords. Good melee classes include Paladin and Hero, Wyvern Lord is considered good but I'm not a fan. Any physical class with Bows will prefer to use bows. Berserker or Sage on hard supports (units without Galeforce) depending on whether their boyfriend/girlfriend is physical/magical; Vaike!Nah can go General if she needs damage or Hero if her partner needs speed. you usually want 4-6 combat pairs, so this is an example of something you could do with your pairings: Chrom @ Sniper x Sumia @ Sage (your sniper) Sumia!Lucina @ Sniper x Avatar (+Spe/-Def) @ Berserker (your other sniper) Chrom!Cynthia @ Dark Flier x Lon'qu!Brady @ Sage (75 Spre Brady brings the pain) Sumia!Lucina!Morgan @ Sage x @ Gregor!Laurent @ Sage (75 Spe Morgan with Aether and Sage support brings even more pain) Gaius!Noire @ Bow Knight x Henry!Gerome @ Berserker (fast, powerful, versatile, mobile unit, swords and bows versatile targeting) Donnel!Kjelle @ Paladin x Fred!Inigo @ Warrior (mooksweepers) Then pair off other units as you see fit - give Yarne (physical hard support) to your remaining physical galegirl (Stahl!Severa) and Nah (axefaire Hero) to Owain (Sage).
  7. The Pairing Thread

    Inigo for sure. He's the only kid left who actually gains a lot of benefit from Stahl's amazing parentage. Gerome would rather get Berserker from Vaike or Gregor; Noire wants Galeforce from Gaius and has Archer and Luna overlap; Stahl!Nah is a fairly versatile physical unit but if she's going to Owain then Henry is better on her; Laurent can take Stahl and succeed similarly to Gregor!Laurent, but his actual benefit from Stahl is quite low - he almost doesn't care who his dad is, Inigo does. Inigo picks up Bowfaire from Stahl, which is actually actively incredible on him. Bowfaire is by far the best physical weaponfaire, and Inigo has the Warrior and Assassin classes to use it with, as well as Stahl's Sniper and his own pretty solid mods. You may not need a third sniper, but Inigo will excel as a Warrior or Assassin with Bowfaire - and if you need him melee, he still has his native Axefaire and Swordfaire with Hero and Warrior. Stahl!Inigo is about the only Inigo I would even consider giving a hard support to (the other one is Chrom!Inigo).
  8. The Pairing Thread

    Henry!Gerome can do 2-3 more damage (he has Cherche's +3 mod, the kids' +1, and the skill Str+2 for up to +6 Atk, which is halved by Dragonskin) which is not insignificant if he's doing 8-15 per swing, or over the effect of 8 swings. Henry himself won't be bad at it, of course. But... you get it.
  9. The Pairing Thread

    So the thing about first-gen characters is that for the most part they just don't have the classes and skills to play in Apo. Units trying to lead tend to be met with a dearth of stable proc + faire + Galeforce, which is basically the defining setup for a kid unit lead - there's a reason Galeforce Dad is meta on Kjelle to the exclusion of nearly everything else; there's a reason no one does Sully!Lucina for Apo even discounting the effect of Chrom on Kjelle, Owain and Inigo aim for Luna or Vengeance dads, and no one does Galeforce Nah. That's the proc/faire/Galeforce trinity talking, it's the staple of leading units. It's not undoable to go into apo and even with with pure firstgens, but it's definitely harder, and if kids are on the table you shouldn't be considering their parents for the most part. Cordelia and Sumia are fine; in front of Avatar-M you can sorta pull off Lissa and Maribelle. But for the most part, it's not worth it.
  10. The Pairing Thread

    Would you like my advice?
  11. The Pairing Thread

    It's not that Inigo is really solid, it's more that Inigo variance is very low - so Stahl!Inigo and Chrom!Inigo (his best dads), while they do perform better, don't improve Fred!Inigo by a large amount. Compared to how massive an improvement Chrom is on Cynthia, for example, or Stahl on Yarne or Severa. Fred!Inigo is free, and he's more than good enough to give Apo minions the boot. While Chrom!Inigo and Stahl!Inigo usually won't be chasing Apo bosses either, so the improvement, while not insignificant, isn't that important.
  12. Henry!Nah's critbuild is different and doesn't reach 100% crit, nor is it a Vantage/Vengeance setup. Mostly it's used in conjunction with Vengeance counterattacking as a lure - she's mostly notable for having Vengeance/Wrath/Focus/Anathema/Dual Support+, though frequently she'll be running Tomefaire over one of them - over Anathema if her partner is contributing that Aura, and over DSp+ if not. She has to give up one more of those for Limit Breaker if DLC skills are allowed, so it sort of gets worse there. Beside Morgan-M as a Sage, she can pick up 43 crit with critforged Celica's Gale (while leading) and a nasty 73 crit backed by critforged Katarina's Bolt. If you're banning Brave weapons in your run, this can get pretty nasty pretty fast. The set I have written here is Henry!Nah @ Valkyrie, Tomefaire/Vengeance/Wrath/Focus/Dual Support+; beside Morgan-M \@ Sage, Galeforce/Astra/Luna/Solidarity/Anathema. You'll immediately notice that Morgan's dropped his Tomefaire to run Anathema for Nah. Trading Dual Support+ for Anathema on Nah results in a net loss of 5 crit. Up to you if that's worth it. Note that while Nah is supporting, she drops 10 crit from the Dual System (15 if running DSp+) which is going to Morgan-M instead. The reason I'm using Morgan-M here is because he has both Galeforce and Solidarity, plus he's male and therefore able to S-support Nah. It helps that her support with him reads pretty nicely. Libra!Inigo has access to all the relevant skills (Vantage/Vengeance/Wrath/Gamble/Focus), but his Skl modifier is too low to guarantee 100% crit - you need +4 Skl to pull it off, and I think Libra!Inigo only carries +2 Skl, so he only hits 99 crit. @ChickenWings
  13. The Pairing Thread

    Nothing weird about your pairings at all, they're mostly the recommended ones. Spending Stahl on Nah isn't always wise, but it's still considered good for the most part, just a more specialty setup than is normally seen. I would definitely do Vaike!Severa if Axefaire is your main concern; Swordfaire really does almost nothing for her if she has Axefaire and Gregor doesn't do anything else for her. By the way, Dual Guard+ is trash. People do Stahl!Nah for dualproc Sniper mostly. And your team isn't really set up to run dualproc Sniper Nah well, I don't think... actually I can't think of any lead who would want dualproc Sniper Nah behind them except physical Inigo or Morgan-M, and her supports with Inigo are trash. So you have Sumia!Lucina, Chrom!Cynthia, Gregor!Severa or Vaike!Severa, Gaius!Noire, Donnel!Kjelle, and Stahl!Nah on one hand... ...and Ricken!Owain, Fred!Inigo, Lon'qu!Brady, Libra!Laurent, Virion!Yarne, and Henry!Gerome on the other, plus Avatar-M and Sumia!Lucina!Morgan or Chrom!Cynthia!Morgan. So you have Sumia!Lucina x Avatar-M Chrom!Cynthia x Lon'qu!Brady Gaius!Noire x Gregor!Gerome Vaike!Severa x Virion!Yarne Donnel!Kjelle x Fred!Inigo Henry!Nah x Ricken!Owain Sumia!Lucina!Morgan x Libra!Laurent Is there anything I'd do differently...? Well, this setup has no Stahl, and Stahl is a top tier dad who can go to Inigo as a straight-up improvement over Fred or Yarne as a straight-up improvement over Virion, or to Severa as a sidegrade - Stahl!Severa doesn't hit as hard as Vaike!Severa, but access to Sniper, Paladin and Assassin give her more options to run as a lead, plus she gets Astra to dualproc with Luna (Vaike!Severa has either Luna or Vengeance). Doing Stahl!Severa gives you Vaike!Gerome which is mostly a straight upgrade to Gregor!Gerome, then you can do Gregor!Laurent if Morgan is +Spe asset (so that Morgan can run a physical set with a physical support if need be, instead of the always-magical Libra!Laurent). Now, if you're bringing all your kids into Apo, you'd have 14 units in the list above, plus Chrom and presumably Sumia make 16. Olivia makes 17, and two rallybots make 18 and 19. You'd have space for one staffbot, which is a very bad idea - staff users are essential to mobility with Rescue and turn crunching. I'm not saying to drop your kids for staffbots if you don't want to, but the onus is on you to make sure you have the necessary staff support to get by. Running high mobility sets will help reduce the burden on your Rescue staff users - Dark Flier over Sage on Lucina, for example; or Paladin on Stahl!Severa; Bow Knight on Gaius!Noire; Wyvern Lord on Donnel!Kjelle. +Mov classes on units in the backline, maybe the likes of Griffon Rider on Fred!Inigo. Valkyrie Morgan-F paired with Dark Knight Laurent, maybe, instead of Dark Flier x Sage or Sage x Sage (or Dark Flier x Dark Knight, for lack of staves). You also want to make sure you have staff users scattered into your combat units. Sage Avatar-M, for example, instead of Dark Knight for mobility or Grandmaster for Speed. I'm not certain if it's a good idea to go all the way with that idea (War Monk Kellam!Inigo).
  14. Lon'qu!Laurent and Gregor!Laurent (Gaius!Laurent can do it too but is otherwise an irredeemable pairing) can pull this off - Laurent needs to inherit Vantage and Skl +2 mod. Avatar!Laurent notably cannot due to the build requiring Solidarity on an S-support partner. Set is Laurent @ Sorceror, Vantage/Vengeance/Wrath/Focus/Gamble, with the Ruin tome. S-support with Avatar-F, Avatar!Lucina, or any female child of Avatar-M. Lucina is preferred; her skillset should be Dual Support+/Anathema/Solidarity/2 filler skills, Dual Strike+ and Tomefaire are probably preferred - DStr+ miiiight save your butt if you fail to get a crit-kill on an enemy (with more than 55 Lck or Aegis+). At 1hp with appropriate Rally skills (offhand I don't recall if Rally Heart is required but I suspect not), this set is a guaranteed OHKO on any enemy with 55 Lck and no Aegis+. I guess if you drop Laurent's Vantage you can use the set as a tactical nuke instead of a traditional V/V unit. Gaius' Fighter inheritance would then offer Zeal for +5 Crit, allowing you to outright kill any enemy with 60 Lck who lacks Aegis+ or Vantage+. The Vantage set is probably more broadly applicable, though.
  15. To be perfectly frank, I'm tempted to just shoot for no DLC just for less grinding out kid unit stats. It also requires you to be a bit more careful with certain enemy units (other than just longbow spam). In practice I feel that no braves reduces your damage more in the general case, so it's harder to kill mooks, but mooks are pretty easy to demolish for the most part. It does open up some fun options like picking Mjolnir or Mystletainn for 100% Dual Strike runs on certain units; or Laurent's 100% critbuild; or Levin Swords and Bolt Axes to hit through Aegis+ against someone like Thronie. As well as easing some units into higher speed tiers with weapons like Ephraim's Lance which carries +2 Spe bonus. And no more Celica's Gale meta means setup is so. much. easier. Not being locked into Brave weapons opens up some more class variety, too - you'll never see a War Monk otherwise, for example. No DLC means you drop Limit Breaker + Rally Heart + Aggressor, so you're not only doing less damage but need to push harder to make things like speed tiers and survival thresholds, so you have to be more careful. That makes a bunch of difference in setup - maybe you're dropping something that's otherwise important for a skill like Defender, which eases you above a certain threshold. That may make your unit better for someone like Anna, but it also makes you worse against mooks, so there's a tradeoff. In terms of actual challenge, there's not much contest, it's no other DLC. No Brave weapons opens up more variety, but also takes away some tools.