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    Katarina (DLC)
  1. very nice, it sounds like you had a lot of fun this game! The reason people rag on Chrom/Sully is not because it's a bad pairing in the way you're using it - Chrom/Sully is an amazing option if you're only playing through the maingame and going up to Grima, since Sully's a great combat unit and passes stellar stats to Lucina (and Kjelle gets Chrom's Aether to tear through enemies). The problem is that in the postgame when you're doing challenge maps or just plain seeing how broken you can get, Lucina and Kjelle don't inherit Galeforce access from a pegasus mother, severely limiting what they can do. (Aside from lacking Galeforce, their stats and class access set is pretty solid, offering Swordfaire, Bowfaire, Luna, Astra, Aether; plus Sniper, Paladin, Bow Knight, and Assassin as finishers, and 1 Str/0 Mag/4 Skl/4 Spe.) Aside from that, I think it's custom to summon Spotpass teams if you need to buy items at a blocked shop in a no-grind run.
  2. The Pairing Thread

    Ricken!Owain still has -2 Str, so I still don't like anything on him that isn't a primarily magical class. If the turn ends on Noire, then the next turn begins on Noire and paladin Owain can't go charging around. Paladin Owains want Stahl, anyway. I mean, I can kind of see how Sniper x Paladin works, I just don't know if I'd recommend it; I don't feel like it's playing to the full strengths of the Sniper class. Sniper/Hero is a very high Skl pair that can aim for 100% dual strikes; taking a Berserker or Sage offers powerful Dual Strikes. Paladin still does what Paladin does best - giving strong pair-up bonuses (but not as strong as the Berserker) while being a high mobility class with solid physical stats. Ugh. Put like that, it's hard not to say "Need a physical Galepair? Paladin one of them!" Maybe I'm being biased.
  3. The Pairing Thread

    If Inigo is running a hard support set (Limit/Aggressor/Axefaire/Hex/Anathema) then he's fine and Berserker is the best physical hard support class due to very high Str and advantageous stat passes. The problem here is that he's wasting Galeboy potential. If he wants to Galeforce lead then Berserker suddenly starts getting dragged down by a bunch of issues related to its low Skl cap - low proc rate, accuracy issues, and a ~3% dual strike rate penalty (the low proc rate doesn't matter as a hard support, and not carrying Galeforce + proc means he can bring +hit skills). You can work around them if you really want to, but for the most part Berserker isn't used as a lead.
  4. The Pairing Thread

    Very good catch on Robin x Brady, @Bane. I often take the Robin pair to be relatively inviolable because it's often player preference and didn't even think about shifting RObin to pair off with someone else. Completely agree, inheriting Brady's +Spe is much more valuable for Morgan than Owain's +Mag. Yeah, I can confirm Bane loves to do Brady @ Dark Knight for the horsie mobility. I'm not a fan, personally; I think that Brady's ability to inherit +Spe means he's really too good as a Sage with a pocket Dark Flier or Valkyrie (requires LQ!Brady). You're correct in that Virion!Brady @ Sage with a Dark Flier pocket hits 75 speed exactly, which is why Virion and LQ are Brady's recommended fathers. IMO Owain makes a better Dark Knight, he doesn't care about the speed drop, has more Mag to work with Dark Knight's lower Mag cap (compared to Sage) and satisfies his Sword Hand. (Unfortunately Stahl!Owain does not have access to the class.) When I said bring Chrom as a "lone support" I meant leave his wife at home and cart him around as a supply bot; you always want S-rank support pairs. (The supply bot thing is most common with Olivia marriages, except that Olivia comes along to dance instead of staying at home. The thing is, though, Chrom is a really good combat unit, both as a lead due to Aether + Luna and as a support due to Dual Strike+ which is why I don't really like Olivia x Chrom.) Chrom's other option with Sumia is Sniper x Sage, by the way. Bane favours Bow Knight which is still exceptional, giving Sumia 75 Speed. But for me the punching power of Sniper Chrom is always the way to go. (I may be biased because I do Chrom x Maribelle and Mari doesn't lead nearly as well as Sumia does, so Bow Knight is worse on her.) Kjelle usually never wants to be Dark Flier due to -1 Mag modifier and no Tomefaire. If he's pairing with Kjelle, Inigo should prepare to be always physical unless Kjelle is picking Bride (All Stats +2 Inigo @ Sage can still do 75 Speed with a Bride). Berserker almost never wants to lead; lead Berserker needs to fix 35 Skl, which forces him to carry Luna for high proc rate, and his girlfriend to carry Anathema/Hex/Dual Support+ for increasing his hit rate since he doesn't have room for it (Limit/Aggressor/Axefaire/Vengeance/Galeforce); it's doable, but a little niche and Berserker lead sucks if you do anything else. If you're talking about hard support berserker Inigo, that's a lot better, though with the caveat that he's dropping Galeforce. Dark Knight might be a thing on Owain, but Owain @ Dark Knight has 36 Str and 46 Mag. As a Dread Fighter he's 40 Str/43 Mag. Up to you. I like the idea of Dark Knight, though. Regarding Owain, Inigo, and Kjelle, it's a good observation that Owain is more accurate due to archer access. But you do lose power; Ricken!Owain's Str mod is -2 which honestly feels very bad to use, he's weaker than an enemy Berserker mook. Libra!Inigo at least has that +1. More importantly, though, are the knock-on effects on Kjelle. Inigo has good physical sets (Hero, Assassin, Bow Knight, Warrior) to work with physical Kjelle as a double Galepair with complementary stats, and he can still Sage x Bride. Ricken!Owain should basically never be going physical because of his pretty bad Str, but Kjelle is always physical, so you're locking them to Sage x Bride. 7.5 support unit accuracy on a set Kjelle probably won't ever use isn't really worth it. ----, I need to up my game. Operation Robin x Anna is a go.
  5. The Pairing Thread

    Pairing overview: Possible changes: (You're in the realm of small tweaks already and can do nearly anything within reason.) Other questions: On mixed pairs:
  6. Grima's Powers?

    If it was stated by Chrobin and Co. that Validar died, then there's an unreliable narrator issue. But yeah, I'm not certain either. Could be that travelling through Naga's portal weakened Grima, because he's like the anti-Naga. Or something. Grima can kill himself (Source: also Future Past). Like, literally, not just via Robin shenanigans.
  7. Grima's Powers?

    Aside from that, Grima's backstory is partially explained in FE: Echoes. I think.
  8. The Pairing Thread

    Okay, see, here's the problem. (1) Lunatic+. Apotheosis doesn't scale with difficulty. Grinding your stats for it on Luna+ is just annoying. (2) What do you mean, skills that make sense for their personalities? That literally doesn't mean anything. (3) Apotheosis has a 20 unit limit. You're not bringing the parent units in, so we don't care about them beyond knowing which kids have which parents. Exception: Chrom, his wife, Olivia for Dancer utility, and sometimes Robin's partner if 1st gen. More general advice: In Apo it helps to have combat support backing your actual combat units. That means of your 20 unit spots, you won't be bringing 20 combat units that fight the enemies in Apo. Usually 4-6 combat pairs is a good number (8-12 units), leaving the rest for Rally users, Olivia, and staffbots for healing and Rescue mobility. Unlike the rest of the game ever (Awakening is the poster child for Enemy Phase defensive play), Apotheosis is a very player-phase offensive map. Your goal is to hit as hard as possible, as fast as possible, and get out without drawing fire. You can go without being attacked on enemy phase at all. Obviously this isn't the only possible strategy (Enemy luring and specialty Vantage/Vengeance setups are things that exist). But the most straightforwards strategy is to cram your units with heavy player-phase offense setups and use your staffbots to Rescue them out of trouble if necessary. Additionally, effectively infinite prep time means you can afford to walk in with the best equipment. That means forged Brave weapons for everyone and forged Celica's Gale for the spellcasters. Dark Magic is basically not even a footnote in this map - some specialty strategies use it, but by and large it's not a thing. As such, favoured classes in Apo have a heavy focus on combat damage - Sages and Dark Fliers for your spellcasters; Wyvern Lord, Hero, Paladin, Sniper, on the fighters; Berserkers and Sages as hard supports. I haven't listed every useful class, but I think I've hit the high notes. There are middling notes like Bow Knight and Warrior, I'm not gonna bother thinking of all of them. Assassin is a very fast specialty class. Certain classes are disadvantaged and not commonly seen in Apo. Falcon Knight is used for staff utility and never as a combat class. War Monk has pretty much zero reason to be used. Swordmaster is never seen due to Assassin being flat-out better in basically every way. Low Str and Mag doom the Trickster. Taguel is irredeemable in every way. Manakete loses brave weapon access and bulk doesn't matter in Apo, so it sucks too (also competing with Sniper as a physical Aegis-hitting means it has no use either). Dark magic isn't useful in Apo, so Sorceror's major selling point over Sage stops mattering and its lower stat caps start becoming a big deal. In Apo, character skills will usually be set up as follows: Galegirl (eg. Sumia!Lucina): Limit Breaker; Galeforce; weaponfaire; stable proc (Luna or Vengeance); procstack (only if Luna; stack Aether, Astra or Ignis) or other filler (eg. Anathema, Deliverer) Galeboy (eg. Lon'qu!Brady): Limit Breaker; Galeforce; Aggressor; weaponfaire; stable proc (Luna or Vengeance) Hard support (eg. Henry!Gerome): Limit Breaker; Aggressor (if male); weaponfaire; two filler skills (three filler if female hard support) (+hit skills like Hit+20/Prescience on Berserkers, Dark Mage auras, All Stats +2). Hard supports basically always want to marry a unit with Galeforce (so pairing Nah with Yarne is usually a bad idea). Staffbot (eg. Spotpass Nanna): Healtouch, weaponfaire (Lancefaire Falcon Knight with Shockstick or Tomefaire Valkyrie), whatever filler (Charm, Anathema, Acrobat on Valkyries, Mov+1). Skills you want to ignore are... pretty much everything I didn't list, but here are the notable ones. Sol is worthless because your damage is relatively low so your healing will be lower, and you have Fortify staffbots to heal you anyway. Renewal is worthless for the same reason. Counter and Lethality are worthless because every enemy has Dragonskin. Armsthrift is unimportant because you have infinite prep time to forge massive numbers of Brave weapons. Pavise, Aegis, and Dual Guard+ are worthless because you have staffbots to heal you to full HP after every battle, so they don't matter if they trigger... and if they do matter when they trigger and save a unit's life, it's because you screwed up and left that unit in danger of death. Here is the post with my recommended parentage for kid units - I should have listed basically all the Apotheosis-viable parents for every child unit. Think I got them all. It just links to page 314 of this thread.
  9. The Pairing Thread

    Let me confirm this for you. It is true. In Apo, you usually don't want to field too many combat pairings, because it takes away from your support unit structure (rescue staves and rally bots). 4-6 combat pairs (8-12 units) is a good range. If Apo is your only goal then don't feel bad about letting Nah and Laurent warm the bench. I'm only saying that if you ever want to switch up your team for fun, or use a different kid setup, or do other maps, then Nah and Laurent will appreciate being part of a pair with Galeforce. Notably, also, you can always build Nah and Laurent as staffbots. They won't be as good at it as spotpass units, but they'll be fine. Inigo and Nah's support chain is horrendous, which is actually one reason I don't normally recommend Vaike!Nah. Lon'qu!Severa!Morgan has 4 Str/0 Mag/10 Skl/6 Spe; I feel like she shouldn't be in a magic-focused class like Dark Flier. A powerful physical class like Wyvern Lord or Sniper, instead, might be called for. Carry dual procs (Luna, plus Astra or Ignis) to take advantage of your incredible Skl mod. Sniper is one of Sumia!Lucina's best sets - she prefers pocket Berserker to pocket Sage, but it's not like Gregor!Laurent (and Henry!Gerome, too!) can't do both sets. If you like Great Lord, though (and it is a very cool class) it's honestly fine to do that. If you're concerned about not having enough Snipers, you can do Sniper Morgan, but neither is Sniper a necessary class, just a good one. In general though, Bane is right; we're more or less in the land of minor tweaks now so do whatever makes you happy. If it means Great Lord Lucina, well, Great Lord is cool. One thing I'm curious about - why +Skl Asset? It's not a bad choice, just that it mostly gets chosen when you have something specific you want to do with the +2 Skl (like reaching for 100% Dual Strike without Dual Strike+).
  10. The Pairing Thread

    Firstly, it's worth noting that going in no-holds barred, with all DLC skills, Brave weapons, and Rally skills, will make Apotheosis a lot easier for you. Enough that most pairings and setups will be able to clear the map with only a minimum of difficulty. With that said, here are your general notes: First, don't worry much about 94-97% dual Strike rates. You have to push really, really hard to hit 100% without Dual Strike+. On 75 Speed: On Snipers: On Luna, Vengeance, and Severa: As for your pairings, you don't have any pairings which are actually bad, so yay for that. General details:
  11. The Pairing Thread

    If using Virion is desired, you can do Virion!Yarne which is effectively the same as Stahl!Yarne, then do Stahl!Inigo, which is effectively a straight upgrade to Fred!Inigo in Apo (but without Griffon Rider). Or you can give Virion to Severa, but it sounds like you want a change for her; or Brady, who doesn't really mind losing 1 point of speed.
  12. The Pairing Thread

    Regarding Owain and his girlfriend: One thing you always need to be aware of is that Apotheosis is nothing like the rest of the game; what is good and what works in Apo is nothing like what works elsewhere. Which is why you see Snipers getting recommended in Apo while Sorcerors are one of the lesser classes - Dark Magic doesn't bring that much to the table in Apo; at most you see niche Gregor! or Lon'qu!Laurent critbuilds. In regular Awakening, Enemy Phase combat is super important, which is why Sol Nosferatu Pavise Aegis were popular when the game came out. In Apo, if two enemies attack one of your units in Enemy Phase, they're probably dead. Staffbots (or just Staff Users in general) are important. Fortify is Fortify, but the big winner here is Rescue, which lets you traverse the map much more quickly and crunch a lot of time. More importantly, if you attack and fail to get a kill and are in danger of getting swarmed by the enemy, Rescue lets you pull out of danger and try again next turn. This is why people have recommended bringing only 4-6 combat pairs to Apo (8-12 attackers) and filling the rest with staffbots and rallybots. Bring too many fighters, and some of them will be stuck moving around doing nothing. Combat pairs including a Sage or Valkyrie (or Bride) can pull double duty as fighters and healers.
  13. The Pairing Thread

    if you're doing a normal, casual playthrough (as in, up to Grima) then honestly, it doesn't matter much, but Cynthia's inherited base stats from Sumia are better than Inigo's from Olivia, and her paralogue is easier, so that's probably better. if you're going up to Apotheosis in a casual sort of everything allowed way, both Lucina mothers still work. Chrom is still a good parent for Inigo, but he has a huge list of other good parents, while Cynthia's list is pretty much limited to Henry (Gaius is good too but you're usually better off giving Gaius to Kjelle or Noire).
  14. The Pairing Thread

    @ZantaRay So I did a little bit more thinking about this Double Galepair thing. Basically, in Apotheosis, enemies tend to (but do not always) spawn in groups of 5 in an x-shape; think of the four corners of a tic-tac-toe board, plus the centre. As such, if one member of a double galepair (two S-support units, both with Galeforce) can attack at 2-range, and the other can attack at 1-range, it should be possible to position them in such a way that they are always adjacent to each other when attacking, so long as they are so positioned at the start of their turn. What that means is that one of the pair ('b', in the example given) has to be rescued precisely to their first location. An example of such exact positioning is as follows, though clearly the pair should be able to target any four units in the group: Wave 0 generals, plus Invincisorc spawns in wave 3 and 5 have slightly different positioning, but the double galepair will still be able to hit all 3 invincisorcs (or any 4 of 5 generals). And even if one unit fails to kill their target (at any point in the gale-chain), the other can still position themselves adjacent to their partner to get their other attacks off. So don't double galepair two units locked to 1-range (eg. 2 heroes, or Hero and Wyvern Lord). Sniper + melee is fine, any unit with range 1 and 2 (eg. Assassin, Warrior, Bow Knight, Tome users) can pair with either 1 range or 2 range units, but give the versatile-range unit the weaponfaire complementary to their partner (so if it's Assassin x Wyvern Lord, use Bowfaire (2 range) Assassin to complement the 1-range Wyvern Lord). You'll want to follow that train of thought to its conclusion for Snipers, because Range 3 can mess up what I just told you. I'd suggest Sniper x Caster; when the Longbow is called for, the caster can go to 2-range, but if the Brave Bow is in play, the caster can go to 1 range. And logbook boots Falcoknight your staffbots so that you have good Rescue positioning. EDIT. Guess what I just realised. Since there are no pair-ups, the value of combat proc skills (Aether, Astra, Luna, Vengeance) just increased. The traditional "hard support" units are (quite clearly) perfectly capable of "leading" in a no pair-up run; one might even say better (though of course this is debatable) as they don't have the skill slot requirement of running Galeforce (or you can drop Galeforce from a Galeboy). That might add Gerome, Yarne, and Nah (but not Laurent, who has natural Vengeance) to the list of proc-seeking kids (Owain and Inigo). Stable proc dads, if you will recall, include Stahl, Fred, Kellam, and Ricken (Luna); and Libra and Henry (Vengeance). Conversely, since you're still moving twice the number of units around with Rescue and Rally, the utility of Galeforce also goes up - so that the units you do have can move around more. The more I think about this, the more interesting it gets.