Prims

I was indeed vanillized and not shot. Had my deathproof been broken, I would have become a self-voyeur. I still think Eury is just alt-scum. More on that when I make a proper post. Arcanite as Bard's buddy was my first thought following the flip, so I'm down with that wagon as well.

I assume 2/2, by the way. Despite my kneejerk reaction to Fenrir Aesir's post I actually still don't want to vote Snike because going by his claim that mayor persists in *YLO it's very possible Fenrir saw that and assumed he was supposed to be town's way out of getting endgamed or put into kingmaker too easily. He is from Smogon, yes? idk how mayor or the scum wincons work in this game but my understanding is that on Smogon, mayor can often be used to prevent scum from reaching vote parity.

I was vanillized last night.

That's only three votes, which isn't enough to get him lynched over the massive support for the Eury wagon or the Bard wagon (which Via prefers so idk why you're counting him). Forgive me if I don't want to waste breath defending a player I don't expect to get lynched today in an already spammy game. Since you asked, though, I don't agree Omega's willingness to lynch inactives or a deathproof claim is scummy when he's not actually pushing them over stronger scumreads (Bard and Eury). Obviously they're suboptimal lynches compared to major wagons and he seems to be treating them as such, which is reasonable to me, but the inactives do need to be dealt with eventually so I don't blame him for wanting to get rid of them. Testing my deathproof claim is also reasonable if you think I'm scum as something would have to be done about it eventually (and scum!me could just be lying). Obviously from my own PoV I'd rather lynch somebody who could actually flip scum than waste today NLing to test my claim + give me a low power ability, but I don't blame somebody who suspects me for going about it that way. Omega being around to do a lot of hustling regarding wagons today and constantly rethinking his priorities shows investment in the game and outcome of the lynch, when scum doesn't care who gets lynched. I don't read it as waffling in this context. He's a town read for me for similar reasons as BBM is.

Genuine scumhunting is looking for players who are playing in a way that supports the scum win condition. "Player X's posting confused me" is on you, not that particular player. Is it really difficult for you to see why a townie might swap votes in that situation (eg rethinking the game they are participating in)? When I read your post where you vote Omega it looked like a list of nitpicks at his posts followed by a voteswap onto somebody who's playing "weirdly" but not necessarily scummy. Overall I suspect because Omega's playstyle isn't necessarily wordy you're using that for an easy case. I don't understand what your threshold is for deciding somebody being weird is scummy instead of somebody you want ask for elaboration on their post. Fair enough if true re: the counterwagon, but it doesn't really make me want to ease up on you overall. I'm fairly confident Eury/Walrein are both scum, Walrein is a pretty safe bet now that he's flaked since it matches his play last game (throw out a short burst of thought process posting then disappear because he doesn't like posting as scum). Bard is a decent choice for the last member, maybe throw Weapons back in because his recent post heckling me annoyed me and completely ignored the context my previous posts before my switch to Eury as well as the context of my wagon (it's impossible for me to be lynched as is so scum!me wouldn't even need survivalist behavior like that). Actually Weapons might be a good pick for ITP since his scumhunting is reasonable now but it would explain the earlier self-consciousness. I wouldn't lynch him over Eury/Walrein/Bard, but if we get rid of the scumteam and he's still around then hmmm. Nobody else seems like an appealing lynch, with Arcanite and Refa as my weakest reads overall and Rapier's alignment being a crapshoot. Snike is realistically probably not scum if his mayor indeed doesn't turn off in *YLO. @Rapier if you come back and sheep me on the Eury wagon and she gets lynched she won't be around to post on future days which means you'll have less to read \o/ By the way, I'm extremely skeptical that the Omega wagon is even going to take off beyond 3 votes right now (I personally will never support it) so I wish people on it would make it clear which of Bard and Eury they'd rather see go, since that's what I predict the wagons at the end of the day coming down to barring a Walrein turbo lmao. (note: I won't support a Walrein turbo this late even though I think he is scum, as there are future day phases to lynch him on)

I didn't really scumread Omega before but I especially don't want to lynch him after his effort in recent pages which seems pretty solidly like town who's invested in the outcome of the day. Would not vote there. I won't cry if Bard gets lynched. Very null slot to me and the disappearance could be scum. I'm much more confident in lynching Eury, though. Not impressed by her doing a last minute Omega push and it seems like it could be scum taking advantage of the growing sentiment against him to push a competent player as her counterwagon. If you look in the spoiler tags for her case on him it's mostly confused replies and her summary also indicates confusion rather than suspicion. There's no "X is scum because Y" so I can only conclude Eury is not scumhunting genuinely and is just pushing a counterwagon. I had similar problems with her BBM push as well. Lynch Eury today tbh. @the people who asked: Snike's posts haven't made me feel necessarily better about his slot, no. In all honesty I've checked out for the day because I'm not enthusiastic about contributing any further to having a potential 20 pages on Day 1. In fact I'm kind of annoyed I'm deathproof because that means I'll be staying in this game for longer, but so it goes.

Offhand I'd rather lynch Eury. ##Unvote ##Vote: Eurykins idk about Weapons lynch at this point really. His posts after I voted him gave me townvibes and seemed less self-conscious so it could have just been earlygame weirdness that I was reading him on. I think Walrein could be scum since he seems to have disappeared.

I'm not third, fwiw. If I am then town could be in a situation where they have to either rely on crossfire or lynch scum five times in a 13p game, which is... yeah. I get a new ability if my deathproof is hit, but it's not particularly good.

Urgh, will post later but I should probably get this out of the way now: I am a 1x deathproof. If I get lynched today then nothing happens.

Omega was the second on my wagon, though. The only person who suspected me off the wagon was Shinori who wasn't pushing it very strongly. Omega, what do you think of Bard? I remember you mentioned him somewhere but I couldn't tell what you were getting at with it. I GUESS BBM's defense of Weapons is fair? The self-deprecation and context of the vote ("I got no reads so here's a sheep on the biggest wagon") still bug me, though. Weapons, how do you feel about Eury and Refa now? What makes me worse than Bard to you? TBH I've straight up not been able to get anything out of Refa and Bard's posts so far this game. Refa has made votes I agree with but isn't really towntelling or anything. Bard has understandable logic but for cases on people I don't actually want to lynch right now. I'm pretty interested in what he has to say now that Shinori has replied.

Bard usually plays like this, Weapons. I can't tell you if this reads more like town!Bard or scum!Bard. it's been years. but as I recall he is serious-minded and focuses on scumhunting and doesn't have much patience for people being anti-town or Weird. how does this knowledge affect your read on him? Snike, we don't know for sure it's 9:4 (I say 9:4 as in 9 townies alive and 4 anti-town that could be whatever, which is a bit misleading, but idk a better way to abbreviate this), but I don't see any reason to disbelieve Rapier's claim. So yeah, I meant what you said in your post that cut me, basically. Is that a votals mistake or are you a mayor?

Via I dropped my suspicion about you because the way you cited uncertainty of if you were posting too much then left the thread when you voted Arcanite made me think you were under IRL pressure affecting your posting so I was like "well, whatever, I'll wait for more from him". Your posts since then read town to me off gut so I don't really care to continue pursuing the ED1 suspicion and I don't think it was that strong to begin with.

lmfao

Man I do not feel like reading Mafia today. Kind of envious of Rapier's meta after seeing his post. @BBM: "Also Prims hasn't done this much as town in the past. I remember because I've specifically voted him out of RVS for not purposely making wagons for reactions before and he was town." uhhhh is this a joke? why am I expected to approach RVS the same way every game? why would scum!Prims arbitrarily have different RVS conduct? but yeah I did vote Arcanite just for the sake of wagoning them, fight me. I don't agree that wagoning newbies is unfair; newbies can towntell in response to wagons and newbies can scumtell in response to them. I trust peoples' reading abilities well enough that expecting me to hold back and not do the obvious move to progress the game because there's a chance Arcanite could react badly as town is kind of ridiculous. fwiw re: this post I personally do not put much faith in meta especially with a sample size of one post so yeah I did not consider my Weapons vote strong at all, personally. @Eurykins: Eury why are you using ISOs four pages into Day 1. Please read the thread like a normal person! Also please write shorter posts but lmao. To answer your question, though, I don't think other votes on Arcanite made them look worse so much as I was like "cool ED1 wagon time let's go" and was also easily willing to switch because I thought my Weapons vote kind of sucked? it was something I was hoping he would be around to respond to immediately but he wasn't so there was no point sitting on it. Arcanite's post bugged me more than Via's as a potential attempt to blend in, but my reaction to Via wasn't "I want to lynch him for this" to begin with so much as "this is weird, please explain". @Walrein: calling Shinori scummy for "weirdness about his vote" then comparing it to your previous scum game doesn't really fly when what you pointed out (him not intending to vote refa then doing it anyway) and what you did in Cuphead Mafia (intentionally going most of the phase without voting) are completely different actions in completely different contexts. this is a very dishonest dig at him. what do you think Shinori's scum plan is with that voting weirdness? I said I thought my initial Weapons vote sucked but actually let's take another look at this slot now that he's posting more: Needless self-deprecation! (while under fire for potentially being lurky, no less) More self-consciousness. This is followed by a wagon hop on me, which he justifies interestingly: except Weapons had previously looked at my posts enough to say he thought my vote was reasonable so huh??? caught in a lie. I don't think this change in opinion or the wagon jump is realistic, it looks like a way for scum!Weapons to be Doing Something but not be held accountable for making content since it's a sheep. Combined with weird self-consciousness in his earlier posts I feel pretty good about voting here. ##Unvote ##Vote: Weapons Eury still harping on the possibility BBM is misreading on purpose doesn't look good to me and so I start to wonder if she's forcing reasons / tunneling on purpose as scum so she doesn't have to find a new vote. I dunno man I try to read her posts and it seems like she nitpicks at him with these weird blobs of text about gameplay theory I glaze over because they're not actually explaining why he's scummy or worth voting? I would be fine voting her off as well. (Feels bad wanting to lynch all the people who haven't played in a while, but that's just how it is sometimes, I suppose.) ugh fenrir aesir with the elie-style quotestripe catchups that nobody actually wants to read I almost want to kneejerk suspect him on that alone. and then I actually read his post and saw this: uhhhhh this is a very outrageous claim to come up with if you haven't gotten to the numbers claim yet! I don't think anybody goes into mafia games thinking "yeah this is probably multiball", like, it's not something I would ever consider UNLESS I knew the game was 9:4. but because we /do/ know the game is 9:4 thanks to Rapier, multiball might actually be plausible, which means this could be a slip? what are the odds of town theorizing about this unprompted just to justify suspecting two people who don't make sense as buddies? if we get a flip from a Scumteam B then this is going to look very weird. but even ignoring that this is kinda scummy dude! it looks like you're reaching to justify that you could support the lynch of both these players, in a way that spreads paranoia at that. in any case I really wish you would just like, read the thread first, and post the most important impressions you get once you've actually read everything. like I'm doing right now. I don't really think BBM is scum even though his vote on me was lame I swear he votes me over RVS actions in every game now. I feel relatively fine about Arcanite now that they've posted more, it just looks like their posts from Kemono Friends but a bit more of a grasp on what Mafia is now. So uh, Weapons > Eury > Fenrir, with a nagging feeling about Walrein's push on Shinori as well, but not strong enough that I'd actually vote him, as he had other reasons for it too and I think the rest of his content is basically acceptable even if he is on the wrong side of history.

as town I'd hope he'd stick around and say more since he seems to still be around. I don't guarantee he would do this as town though. this is not at all a strong read I just want him to post again!!

##Unvote ##Vote: Arcanite Works for me. I don't really find Shinori scummy as I think he was trying to move the game along / look into his own suspicions so I can't fault him for not offering a better alternative to role speculation. Want Weapons to post again though! The "eh" sounded indifferent to me and obligatory RVS wagon hop + disappearing act seems like the easiest way for scum!Weapons to start the game.

Via I am glad you like my observation but it is unnerving to me that you're using it as a vote pivot without really factoring it into your general reads despite apparently agreeing (eg you don't talk about how this compares to what you have on Shinori). It looks like a weird form of buddying.

##Vote: Weapons for not putting his heart into his vote. I thought wagon jumping meant something to you. Not really fond of this post either. It doesn't really contribute anything (so like, why make it) but also posting "hmmm what if we mislynch and three townies die! that would sure be funny!" rubs me the wrong way on a gut level.

lmao one of these days!

looks like we just need one more player @Rapier

Oh yeah, another thing I wanted to address about this game is that people should cut it out with the references to meta in anonymous games. Not only do you never know for sure other people's identity, it's alienating to other people who may not have the same guess as you or just may not be making player guesses, which makes it not really convincing as a tool for casing players (this blew up in Marth's face on D2). Plus, reliance on meta tends to be questionable to begin with even in non-anon games. I know in an anonymous game it's usually inevitable for information about identities and comments about such to slip out, but the frequency with which it happened in this game was much higher than I've ever seen before and mostly served as a distraction when it came up imo.

/in

You guys basically let Shinori bully you into not lynching him. RIP

Looking at associative reads with flipped scum was a good thing to do this game (as it is in every game, really, it's basically the most effective way to figure out alignments under most circumstances once you have a scumflip). People were wrong to dismiss the context of Rumor Honeybottoms' vote on Cala, imo. Also Grim's hard bus was catchable because like BBM pointed out, context of the game locked him into it. And then he was comfortable voting Sally on D4 anyway! Lynching Sally over Grim on D4 when Grim wasn't even trying was town's biggest mistake this game, honestly. The way Grim was coasting was scummy.

I don't remember, tbh. I think after, but I didn't have it in mind while making the role. It was just born of my general sentiments to stop day phases from dragging on recently and I gave it the bonus ability to secure lynches.