Prims

Proto just claiming normal Rogue made me think it was weird when you claimed Macho without knowing about the log though (eg why would a rogue be macho, was snike scum that was going outside his given fakeclaim but got screwed by proto, etc). In the end Rein just really had a Macho rogue though lmao. Also Ice said you weren't macho when he dug up your flip which was really weird.

Cut by me dying.

Mich could be scum. He stepped his game up mid-D1 when he got lynched as Godfather too. It just didn't stop his lynch because he had scummy actions on record already. This game is a blank slate. Despite his lurking I don't think he's much worse than my main scumreads, though.

I guess you're right in that scum is more likely to test the waters before claiming after subbing in. I still think the slot could be scum though and am just opposed to last minute wagons on principle and I'm heavily skeptical re-reading Sully would make me want to lynch him more than the slot I've been scumreading all game.

I don't think the VT tell works because once scum know it they can abuse it. In a situation where people were clamoring for a lynch on a slot that just hadn't posted, subbing in and throwing semi-decent content out there is enough to sway a few votes off of you. scum!Gaius doesn't need to fakeclaim to survive.

Before I forget: My roleclaim is that Refa and Michelaar are scumbuddies.

I think you're clearing Bart too easily, honestly. Why can't scum!Bartozio do that? It's an extremely easy post to make regardless of alignment so scum!Bartozio can make it because he needs to look like he's Doing Things, and it doesn't really matter for him in the end because he's not actually committing to a read on you or Sully when he does so. I don't see how Mack's responses are alignment indicative. tbh I'm not a fan how he says he still thinks Shinori is scummy and re-enforces his Shinori case but makes an empty unvote in the same post he says he doesn't like unvoting without a new person to move his vote to. His vote ends up on the Ken wagon in the end even though he said he wanted to read Shinori more so I can't tell where his Shinori read actually went.

I am cooling down on Gaius a little (despite being salty at him for the bad meta on me) but I don't really want to lynch Sully either. Surely nobody would feel bad about lynching Bartozio if he flipped scum? Might be too close to a turbo for my tastes, though. Alternately we can lynch him tomorrow, like the time I felt bad about lynching scum!RD immediately so I waited until Day 2 to push him. I think ultimately it's reasonable to lynch the VT claim in case I'm being dumb and second-guessing myself based on other scum reads that I could also be wrong about.

Neither of them are getting lynched today from what I can tell, but my Mack read hasn't changed much from the posts he's made since I suspected him. Last night I was concerned Shinori could be scum trying to seem active by replying to all the suspicions on him but not actively engaging with the main game much, but after his PBPA of Bartozio I think he's just following his own whims and his play looks reminiscent of Kemono Friends. Overall I'd say he's just OK, maybe a slight town lean? I haven't really read him in-depth because I want to Get This Post Out Here(TM). My current Shinori read is completely independent of my original read on him, though, which was a gut read based on early posts. I actually am glad for Shinori's post on Bartozio, though, because it made me realize Bartozio's reason for keeping the Ken vote is... "[he] somewhat discourages people from posting reads, so I'm going to keep my vote there for now.". Wow! And you guys thought I was voteparking! He outright says he's leaving his vote there "for now" like it's just a placeholder because he doesn't know who the scums are. Then when he switches back it's just because he has no better read... Seriously, this is what apathetic scum parking on a wagon looks like, not me Pushing Ken For Doing Scummy Things. tbh everyone on the Prims wagon should explain how the hell my Ken vote is worse than this. @kirsche @Lord Gaius @SullyMcGully @Refa Same posts can be repurposed as a reply to Gaius. Again, his play persisted into the serious portion of the game, not just RVS. If he had kept posting after that and his posts were still scummy I would have still voted there. Anyway, if I die then lynch kirsche tomorrow for pushing bad gameplay theory as a reason not to lynch a scummy player and starting a mislynch wagon over meta while ignoring the actual context of my actions. Bart is a great lynch too and Gaius is also still a reasonable option but I'm actually wavering on it now because two of my last minute scumreads (kirsche and Bartozio) have interactions that point to him being a townie used as a scapegoat for their nefarious scum plans. If you made me guess the scumteam offhand I would say kirsche/Bart/Mack, with Gaius as an alternative to Bart. Obviously kirsche isn't getting lynched today, though, so not me over me applies.

ALTERNATELY if Ken/Gaius flips mafia we lynch you for opposing the wagon for a non-reason and ignoring the actual cases on him. What kirsche says here is straight up not true because when a lynched player flips scum, you catch scum by looking at how people interacted with the wagon on them more than you look at the scum's actions. He's also devaluing the worth of a scum lynch, ignoring the fact that obviously a scum lynch is good because it PUTS US CLOSER TO WINNING. It's a complete non-defense and he also didn't acknowledge me restating the case on Ken since the last time he dismissed it, which bugs me because part of the reason I felt the need to restate it was because of how much he had oversimplified it. I do think kirsche is extremely scummy now for pushing the train of thought that you should lynch for associative reads and not scumminess. This is independent of Gaius' flip too; scum!kirsche's lack of an actual Ken defense could just as easily be because Ken is town and he doesn't care if the slot gets lynched.

Yeah, Ken's behavior happened early into the game but I also think (controversial opinion) most of the posts since then have been about equally useful to the posts then. The only difference is that they have more words in them. This is why the day should have ended in a Ken lynch 48 hours in but what can you do.

My read on Ken isn't weak, though. I already made a post restating it. He was reactionary and obtuse and not scumhunting the way a townie should, this lasted into the serious portion of the game as well even if he dropped out early. All this is scummy play. Weak reads get dropped as town because they were weak to begin with. If they don't evolve into anything then there's no reason to keep them.

XFD

Nothing to push. Only one player gets lynched each day anyway. Following flips it becomes easier to find people through connections but one strong read is good enough for D1.

Really my best defense is that the Ken slot is scummy as I've said here and the reason I've been voting that all day is because I want it lynched. Calling me scummy for not having strong pushes on other players is a little baffling because they're not the player I want lynched today... Gaius voting me because I'm "lazy compared to the usual Prims" is laughable when I played even more apathetically than this and got him mislynched D1 2-3 games ago. I would think he would remember that. Regardless of meta arguments I hate his Shinori defense because Shinori is obviously not getting lynched today and it and the Quote blurb look like filler content. Actually I don't know why he didn't just post scum reads on me and Sully to begin with instead of throwing in a bunch of secondary town reads that aren't topical to game state? Potentially padding, maybe. I never scumread Marth except very early on over a joke which was my bad, so idk what Sully is getting at with that. kirsche can die after Gaius as far as I'm concerned. @Baldrickget back here why would you leave your vote on shinori. I don't even disagree with your case it's just obviously not happening today.

Instead of replying to these I could just point out that you cop out of 2/3 of your own reasons for thinking I'm scum in your own post anyway. "this isn't bad but it's weird" "this isn't scummy in and of itself" lol? Not changing my opinions all the time isn't scummy either but it's straight up untrue I haven't had a thought process this game since my reads on BBM were updated (see my back and forth with him) and so was my read on Mack when I re-read him and found him scummy. Obviously I'm not going to be pushing people who aren't Ken when I think Ken is the scummiest target. And yeah I didn't reply about BBM/Marth because I was lazy and that was a gut read anyway. To be fair, (almost) all of those times were bad plays on my part.

HEY I'M "DOUBLING DOWN" BECAUSE I THINK THAT SLOT IS SCUM. STOP DEFENDING A SCUMMY SLOT FOR BAD / NON-EXISTENT REASONS. ARE YOU SCUM TOO? This is entire post is bad bad bad because 1) kirsche has not actually explained why the cases on Ken Masters don't hold water (he gave a defense earlier on but that was before I restated my case and now he just votes me and ignores it), instead he says it's a bad lynch because he hasn't talked to anybody but guess what there's a replacement talking RIGHT NOW and also you don't lynch for "associative reads" you lynch people for being scummy. 2) it's a meta case based on one game, an OC game (this game is not OC) and not the several NOC games I've played in as town, the two most recent of which where I actually put in less effort than I am in this game 3) it completely ignores that I could be voting Ken all day as town because... you know, I think he's scummy and I want to get scum lynched. You might notice the point in the day where I thought the player most likely to be lynched was BBM and switched my vote there until I changed my mind.

I haven't read anything but the votals but no I'm not getting turbo lynched in the last 6 hours of Day 1 you nitwits, that's straight up atrocious play. Don't expect a claim from me either.

I would rather just lynch the slot and not worry about it. I don't feel strongly about any other reads atm.

Ken was in Manix's EM filler game (and he was much more pro-active than this, for all that means considering that game was a year ago). I believe he was in other games as well, but not ones I've read.

Just so we're clear: I actually do think Ken is the most likely to flip scum at this juncture. In effect, he was using playstyle as an excuse to not contribute to the thread. His biggest concerns when posting were generally people voting him since that's what got him to reply to thread the most. But he doesn't engage the people voting him beyond telling them "I don't care about ED1 lol". In his response to Marth here, he says serious suspicion won't happen until later today, but what's he doing to reach that point? Is he just waiting for everybody to provide content for him? I'm not expecting super strong reads from him that early on, but a townie playing to the beat of their own drum should be doing more to actually get reads out of people if they're not happy with the current thread content. What he was doing was reactive and passive play, which is scummy. The disappearing act is just argh at this point. It says he was last online 3 minutes ago so I don't know what's up with that.

I don't want to lynch Sully today. @Ken Masters are you still playing? you do kind of have 3 votes on you.

Marth's posts gave me a better insight into his thought process at the time and he seems alright now. Actually I don't really know what I think about BBM but whatever. When Elie is annoyed with ED1 he puts in work to get everybody talking. Ken was leaving that up to everybody else and not getting engaged in the game even when people were starting to take it seriously. The amount of empty unvotes this late in the day (mich, mack, shinori) is a pain. @BBMCan you post a lynch priority?

Fair enough. My reading comprehension has been garbage this game. Not really feeling Shinori lynch today overall. Ken and Mack are the best targets imo.

lmao We should get two more votes on Ken just in case.