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    Thracia 776

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  1. C8 - 3/75 Turns 3 Turns Drilled Cecille for HP STR SPD DEF. Uninteresting rescueless 3 Turn. At least I got quite a lot of promoted kills and the Arms Scroll. Lol at Warrior Ryan doubling...I really overrigged him in Prologue. UNIT CLASS LEVEL HP STR MAG SKL SPD LCK DEF RES WEXP BOOSTERS Marth Lord 15.05 35 16 00 17 20 17 13 00 C Swd Growth Drop, 1 Wing MyUnit Bishop 15/03.22 41 08 16 18 19 16 04 13 B Tme D Stf Palla D.Knight 12/08.28 43 21 01 20 22 12 20 03 A Lnc D Axe 1 Robe, 1 Shield Ryan Horseman 14/03.66 34 18 00 21 20 12 14 00 A Bow E Swd Cecille Cavalier 16.64 31 13 03 18 20 14 11 00 C Swd D Lnc Barst Pirate 12.13 29 19 00 13 19 09 10 00 D Axe Cain Cavalier 11.62 29 13 00 11 12 06 12 00 C Swd D Lnc Arran D.Knight 05.37 26 12 01 12 11 04 14 03 B Lnc E Axe Malicia Cleric 10.88 21 00 08 04 11 16 05 08 B Stf Cord Curate 09.73 20 02 06 06 11 07 05 08 C Stf
  2. tierlist

    I agree with promoting Rutger for Devias if you're opting to dodge the reinforcements, but if you're engaging them (since they are quite EXP rich and relatively easy to handle) then you can delay it a little. Mind, I still tend to promote him at the start of 8 anyway, because it's not like Leygance goes down THAT easily to other units. Dieck can take the C2 and 3 Bosskills pretty easily, but I tend to prefer to give them to Marcus as if he gets a speed proc (25%) it makes Chapter 4 much easier. In a world where we're not planning on using Rutger Dieck should probably take them though. C5 and 6 bosskills if they're set up correctly for him or if it just so happens he ends up finishing off due to whatever errant misses or crits are a thing too, as are the C7/8 ones in the same way they're relevant for Rutger. My point is you're not going to be buying more to use for post C21 anyway unless you have sub 4k gold and can't make up the last stretch, because it's not really that useful.. It's not a question if if you buy more or not. I don't think there are any strats that are not just pure LTC specific that actually rely on Bolting to hit, just Bolting serving as a reliability augmentation. Tome accuracy is a thing yeah but there arent so many uses for it that it's a huge deal. 5 seems really small but when there are only about 5 places where it'll have a more than marginal impact, it doesn't matter too much. I think at this point someone just has to commit to actually doing an efficient playlog of the game and trying to train then utilise Fir for lategame bosskills. I don't have any plans to do something like that anytime soon. Survival is very reliable if it's Barrier/Pure Water + Dracoshield Percival, it gets worse if it's anyone else since they probably need to dodge one of the Manakete or Brunya's Bolting. Rutger needs to score a crit with Durandal to KO Brunya, can't reasonably expect to 2HKO (she's really bulky), and whilst 75 disp hitrate+ and 20~25ish crit is solid, that's not stellar. Energy Ring Percival/Alance can ORKO with Durandal without crits but has worse Accuracy. Trying to Warp a Refresher up is problematic because Yodel's Warp range is 4 less than Niime's, Saul probably didn't get any boots, and standing further up starts to expose more frail units to Wyverns + Ballista which is not ideal. Shin to try to finish is the only reasonable way to improve the bosskill (which isn't that bad either actually, 18 Str + Murgleis will give him two chances to finish off if Rutger hit twice with 18 Str and Durandal). However you have to either position Shin more precariously (as in, he has to survive some Wyverns), or blow a Rescue AND Warp Charge to get him into position so that Yodel's Warp Range will suffice for him to finish off which is really resource intensive and might not be doable depending on your earlier strats. I suppose a way to alleviate this problem and save at least 1 Rescue Staff use is to have Yodel eat an Energy Ring, since then he can warp Shin from the spot he kills the Manakete into Boss Range. That still costs a Boots though and 4k gold for a reliability augment seems a liiiiitle questionable, although I suppose it becomes nearly foolproof with it might be worth it? I think I'm more put off by the extra Warp tbh. The big reliability drop was because I thought the Druid had Nosferatu for some reason, he has Flux. That combined with some further thoughts alleviate most of my concerns so I think the strat will work fine. Main problem with trying to go slower and sending multiple combat units up there is that there are a lot of Killer Weapon enemies with nearly maxed out attack, and you have to get rid of the enemies blocking the gate unless you do the bait trigger strat. Getting through the Manakete, Nosferatu Druid, and then KOing the boss (where you probably need a someone hit again from 1-2) is relatively demanding. Miledy Maltes the Manakete, Paladin Brave Lances the Druid, Rutger Durandals, Shin Murgleis? The Wyverns around the throne love being dicks with positioning though so trying to set up a reliable 3 turn to me seems like it's going to force you to fight more groups of enemies than you really want to unless somehow you have enough boots for like, Wyrmslayer Paladins to help make sure Wyverns aren't completely clogging the area. PM'd you them. Don't realllllly want to publically share the movie files themselves and I'd rather just document the boss stats at some point when I feel like it. You still need 16 Str and 22 AS and A Swords to perform notably better than Miledy given you can only attack Randy from 1 tile. Rutger gets there at like 11/9 (less with Bartre Energy Ring/Wings), which is kinda pushing it and I'm skeptical Fir can do any better without Boosters at that point. You're correct there's only 1 Speedwings up to that point, I got mixed up. So yeah he can only take one by Gelero, in which case he isn't doubling realistically. The more I think about it, the more my problem with promoting Dieck first is less to do with Henning and more to do with how we have to ALSO pass up on training and promoting Fir for him to be the next best choice for bosskilling. This furthers the inefficiency of using Dieck (the reliability difference of using a Swordmaster against Gelero and possibly in the future with enough effort is more than enough to make up for the monetary value of the second Hero Crest) As for the Henning stats, it's not actually that difficult to get more units into the boss area since it's broadly more efficient to have Shanna just function as a constant Give > Drop bot across the gap whilst other units expend PP picking up units to give them to her, whilst everyone else runs to the throne as soon as they get over. But I did acknowledge the shared contribution for the bosskill means Dieck's contribution there is significantly reduced. I think you may have misunderstood the original premise of why people even entertained the idea of promoting him first though, because it's less specifically about bosskilling prowess and more about general unit strength and dominant period if he's promoted early. He basically misses this period if you promote him with the second crest and his higher base level works against him due to him not really benefitting much from the EXP flooded Isles enemies. The bosskilling thing is really more just icing on the cake that he's probably the next best choice you have against many of these bosses, for better or for worse. That being said, I think that given he is so much worse at bosskilling, compounded with the fact he might not even get the Bosskill EXP a lot of the time due to having to rely on help from other units, he's basically going to turn into pure second string and can't really be expected to keep up with lategame bosskilling, so that does knock him down a peg I think. Granted, I don't think it affects his tier placement much because earlygame matters a lot, and you have to admit, it's at least fringe entertainable to utilise Dieck against Devias/Leygance/Henning and such, wheras promoting someone like Lott or Wade first is just completely nonsensical.
  3. tierlist

    holy shit grandjackal is alive I mean, thats a roughly 6% chance of a reset on average against a specific enemy type that she doesn't have to neccessarily take depending on how you're setting up kills for her. Fir is facing similar chances of death of dying on an enemy phase at base level since she gets 2HKO'd by basically everything. What I'm describing is imo not "impressive" but it is nifty. Like, playing without it isn't that big a deal, and it's not like Lilina herself has perfect accuracy (pretty average with bolting tbh, Roy support helps though), and there are ways to negate the need for it. The best uses of Bolting besides the 16x Bolting Sage to me all seem to at best be reliability augmenters, and the best use of a non Bolting wielding Sage is typically for throwing a big dent in bulky promoted enemies (Paladins, Wyverns, Heroes, etc). There are a few instances of things like say, Chapter 19I where you could drop a trained Sage on the Forest over the mountain on T1 and ORKO some cavs and put the Paladin into Horseslayer range (can steal his Knight Crest too before you do it), but these are pretty rare and obviously Lilina has difficulty doubling without a Speedwing typically, wheras Lugh eventually gets there. As for the cost to Boots, Bolting is worth 1500 when sold, which is a non trivial amount but you're using at least 1 charge of it in 16x. You also don't need to buy them any more Bolting at the shop because tbh it's not really worth factoring Bolting uses into a reliable PT past Chapter 21 I think? Like, there's no real practical application in 21x, a Sage is better placed to help on the LHS in 22 which means no trying to bolting chip Zephiel (who is really resistant anyway), 23 unless you can somehow ORKO the Killer Ballista Sniper (need 34 Atk 16 AS so 22 Mag 21 Speed, each benchmark being feasible for one but not the other Sage) there's no real initial targets of value beyond chipping the nearby Druid so someone might not have to take a counter from the Nos. 24 lol rigging bolting crits in a reliable PT, I guess if they can double with it they can typically prevent someone taking a counter, but considering boots distribution if you're taking a Sage to 24 then they are using Forblaze more anyway. I somewhat question putting Boots on a Sage too TBH...I guess Forblaze access for 24 is nice, and I will admit Rutger kinda felt pretty auxilluary due to being forced into using a Wyrmslayer, but Rutger likely needs the Mov boost to help with Brunya and Zephiel. I suppose you could cut the mount typically used to carry Fae via just having Yodel or your Dancer take her from someone else. Anyway TL;DR, we don't need to buy more Bolting IMO. So what we're asking for is more like 6200 range for their core items (not going to crunch what all those Tomes are worth if sold), which is about 1.5 pairs of boots. This is pretty competitive with (better than?) Fir I think since she likely needs some other Boosters too. I basically see the tweaks to reliability and the monetary cost for Sages and Fir being fairly comparable, given Fir isn't even actually going to be augmenting reliability a significant portion of the time if Rutger doesn't underperform. The main caveat here obviously being that Fir is self sufficient wheras the Sages require quite a bit more babying. Eh, kind of. I'm not really objecting to expected TC or expecting it (durr) to accomodate these factors, just more trying to add in that whilst it is a good objective metric, our application of it can be teased with a bit if the circumstances allow. Also I ran some numbers for the 23 clear, it's prob more like 30 to 40%, but I didn't account for "what if our units suck" factor either so I'm not sure it's an example of it neccessarily working (the joke being I'd have to run calcs that I'm too lazy to do or attempt to work through a more rigorous strategy...). Although you can probably say it will stretch resources to go slower too given someone like Miledy will need to spam Malte on a few of the enemy groups. If I stop being lazy I can grab all of them personally since I have movie files for every chapter to check. I typically just use them instead of site reference these days <_< By 18, if we're playing efficiently then factoring in arena use where applicable and bosskiller privilege I'd say 11/10 for Rutger is very reasonable, you can squeeze another 1 or 2 levels if you try probably. He was like 11/13 at 18I in my last run (got to 14 off Martel) without too much effort, but that did have a pretty big turn buffer so cutting it down by 1 or 2 levels intuitively seems correct. I don't know when Fir is promoting but if Rutger takes bosskills and promoted enemies then that impedes her ability to gain promoted EXP significantly; this is a good point to raise against Rutger+Fir team combos, the EXP pool is limited. Specifically for 12x, I'd expect Rutger to be 11/5 to 7 by that point (depends on arena usage, 6 is prob reasonable). Henning has +1 Speed and Def compared to SF on a reset. Randy is not that important since MIledy handles him fairly effectively. Scott and Gelero are assholes but you do have the option to give Dieck one or two Speedwings by Gelero (although tbh I'll concede that by this point, Alance can be pretty competitive with Dieck for bosskilling). 12/1 Dieck is sandbagging, he can be higher than that. Dieck does take quite a bit longer but one has to remember that it won't take 11 rounds because you're realistically going to be having Shanna carry in more units in to help contribute (promoted Alance, Marcus/Zealot, etc). Rutger obv is a big deal and Dieck's relative contribution for the bosskill is significantly cut down due to how much worse at it he is, but he does improve at it as time goes on and he does have Durandal access that other units won't have. The biggest problem with Dieck is obviously that he doesn't have high enough speed to realistically start doubling bosses without giving him speedwings, but this is a problem shared by basically everyone who isn't Rutger, Fir or Shin (even Miledy needs help lol). Shanna easily doubles but her attack is pretty low, Lance is like the next best bet but even he takes really long time to start doubling a lot of these enemies. Dieck basically fufills 4 of the 5 criteria for bosskilling - he's accurate, bulky enough to take hits, has above average attack, can use crit boosting/effective weaponry and can be transported to bosses pretty easily. He doesn't get the last one (reliably doubles), but his accuracy lead over someone like Alan or his Attack lead over someone like Lance, combined with their own doubling problems still makes him better at it than any non SM till MIledy and Percivcal show up.
  4. C7 - 5/72 Turns Standard 5 turn clear. This Chapter is the biggest reason why I bought the Secret Shop Master Seal for Ryan in Chapter 5. Having 3 Dracoknights and 4 total fliers makes it trivial to grab all the loot and clear the way for Marth. Marth can oneshot Thieves with the Devil Sword and a Str Shard, which is handy but not neccessary. Merc Samto fufills 3 niches; he can cover for Barst missing an Iron Axe, provides an extra heal target for the final turn, and can walk on Cave tiles to get the Physic. He's the only unit I can spare that does this whilst not getting ORKO'd by the reinforcement Cavaliers! UNIT CLASS LEVEL HP STR MAG SKL SPD LCK DEF RES WEXP BOOSTERS Marth Lord 14.57 34 15 00 16 19 17 12 00 C Swd Growth Drop, 1 Wing MyUnit Bishop 15/02.57 40 08 16 18 18 15 04 12 B Tme D Stf Palla D.Knight 12/07.22 42 20 01 19 21 12 20 03 A Lnc D Axe 1 Robe, 1 Shield Ryan Horseman 14/03.03 34 18 00 21 20 12 14 00 B Bow E Swd Cecille Cavalier 15.87 30 12 03 18 20 14 10 00 C Swd D Lnc Barst Pirate 11.06 28 18 00 12 18 08 09 00 D Axe Arran D.Knight 05.37 26 12 01 12 11 04 14 03 B Lnc E Axe Malicia Cleric 10.58 21 00 08 04 11 16 05 08 B Stf Cord Curate 09.20 20 02 06 06 11 07 05 08 C Stf
  5. It's not irrelevent if both you and Paper Jam claim Roy and Fae are trivialising endgame way more than Athos does, because Endgame includes the Final Chapter? Roy typically does not get the required Strength/Speed to ORKO Idun unless you rigged levelups, spent a while grinding him post promotion (why) or gave him Statboosters. Athos is given to you for free, no training required and can take on the entire Final Chapter, along with 2 to 3RKOing the Dragon with basically no assistance beyond like, some Healing. He is capable of ORKOing with Statboosters, and the second Body Ring improves him a lot in general. If the sole reasoning for the Fire Dragon being less of a joke is that less than 10% of the time you have to give Athos a Robe then that's pretty poor since it's not like Roy's accuracy is perfect against Idun either. Sure, Roy 2/3HKO's Idun, but is that really any more lame than the Fire Dragon going down in 1 or 2 turns? The point is not "FE6 has a hard endgame", the point is "FE7's is also very easy".
  6. Those points aren't relevant to the question of whether Roy and Fae trivialise FE6 endgame more than Athos trivialises FE7 endgame. The point has never been that FE6 has a difficult endgame, merely that FE7's is not really much harder either.
  7. Athos kills the Dragon like 2 or 3 rounds of combat with Forblaze, or less if you use Luna. The other manaketes being weak to other legendary weapons doesn't help your argument that Roy and Fae trivialise the endgame. Athos can always oneshot the Dragon with a Fillias Mt + Luna crit. And as far as I'm aware, assuming the Fire Dragon can actually roll 40 attack (never seen it myself), it should only have like a sub 10% chance of happening anyway given you have to get a 9/8 into a .25 on the stat generation. Furthermore you could just give him a Robe or something, it's not like they're in high demand. I repeat, Athos can pretty much singlehandedly take on the Final Chapter, let alone the Final Boss. How are Roy and Fae trivialising anything harder than he is?
  8. @Paper Jam @YouSquiddinMe Except they don't? Fae is doubled and oneshot by Manaketes and Idun without statboosters or significant investment and isn't oneshotting them without a low % crit. The Binding Blade only has 20 uses and you have to kill like 20 Manaketes to even get to Idun. She is definitely not a difficult final boss, but considering Athos is pretty capable of soloing the entire endgame without much fuss I don't see how FE7's handling of it is somehow particularly better.
  9. How does this make any sense? Athos being made to trivialise the end game doesn't negate the fact he's trivialising the endgame and final boss. FE6 has no endgame trivialiser nearly as stupid as Athos (Karel is way way way behind), so given that Fae is likely getting oneshot by Idun, how is Roy' ability to roughly 2 or 3HKO the final boss more of a joke than Athos, who also 2RKOs? Because you get him earlier?
  10. tierlist

    It's funny you mention this because I finished that run of FE6 I was doing yesterday and Miledy and Rutger both got sub 5% crit by Chapter 24 Manaketes, ending the clears 5 turns in. Fir/Shanna hype? (tho Shanna prob needs a robe and obviously neither of them can take 2 Manaketes at a time like Miledy can). Biases Percival a little too since he has high enough luck to generally avoid crits from them as well! Speaking of endgame there, more nice uses for Bolting in C21 - Roy can provide Support as Lilina chips one of the starting Wyvern Lords so that as long as Niime dodges it (or you gave her two robes/1 robe 1 draco/she procced Hp/rolled down on Strength), she can KO it with Nosferatu, saving a Sleep Staff use or w/e (also has a decent chance to crit him too). She can also compensate for things like Wyverns rolling high on AS so that base Niime + Body Ring doesn't double, or Niime missing an attack, via finishing off at 10 range from the top of the map, with Dancer support allowing for multiple attacks. That can free up a Speedwing (since Speedwing + Body Ring Niime reliable doubles all Wyverns). This is assuming the "Yodel warps Percival + Niime into the middle of the map T1" strat which is pretty reliable overall (I used Durandal Percival to improve reliability in KOing the Wyverns that attack him). Armorslayer Miledy once again proved to be pretty great as probably the best unit choice possible to engage in Murdock's room, her CoD being by far the lowest of the choices due to high defence and no horseslayer weakness, along with a more accurate 4HKO. Though, getting to the secret shop in 4 turns was difficult without having the 10 mov flier do it, but I was able to barely squeak to it with Shanna. Well, in theory anyway, I ended up having to Warp her to it on the last turn due to a movement error I made, but MIledy killed the boss herself anyway so I didn't need a second warp on Percival to attempt to finish. Back to Lilina though; she also doesnt have a whole lot of difficulty helping out at the top left of C22 as she can hugely dent/ORKO the General on EP (Javelin means he's not going to OHKO), and she also has a realistic chance of 2HKOing the Brave Sword Hero safely there (20/22 Mag + Forblaze, not super unrealistic), or at least helping out, with a nice big Heal if neccessary on the supporting unit. Given the player typically wants to concentrate their strongest units with high mov/boots use on the right side, this is a pretty nice niche for a second string infantry unit to have, as Heroes are a real bitch of an enemy, especially when they have Brave Swords. Unfortunately I didn't end up testing the "reliable" throne room strat as Rutger decided to doublecrit with Durandal against Zephiel, allowing for the instant clear. May as well outline that though - Roy opens door, Rutger attacks Zephiel, if he gets Zephiel into KO range for Niime + Shin they go in to attempt to finish then Roy danced to seize (or if you really want you stall another turn anyway regardless but I think Zephiel might get Physic'd if he drops too low), if he doesn't then Apocalypse Niime is danced to double Sleep the Heroes whilst the rest of the gang ko as many enemies as they can and Yodel Saint Staffs. If you REALLY want higher reliability Rutger doesn't have to attack Zephiel immediately but the pressure this puts on the LHS to get away from the reinforcements is pretty testing so I think it's better to go in hard unless you somehow have enough good units on the left to try to get further in the corridor to avoid the double Hero, Sniper+Druid reinforcement combo. Sure, I wasn't disputing that taking it slower is typically simpler (my last run of this game wasn't really that fast and I didn't really ever struggle), but in many late mid to lategame maps in this game IMO there tends to be a distinct area of "extra effort" inbetween the triviality of slowing down quite a bit and bruteforcing a very fast clear. In a casual clear of a map it's all well and good to make sure nobody dies on any given turn and steadily progress forward, but trying to compute the actual worthwhile-ness of having slight chances of a reset and how many turns your "risky" action saves is often pretty vague without having to stop and crunch numbers, and trying to compute multiple parts of them together in an exhaustive manner I find often find just biases me towards either end of the spectrum. That is, "I'll just keep taking a few extra turns here and there so I don't face the prospect of a reset" or "I'll just force this really quick clear" (as long as it's like, 3 turns max). This isn't really part of expected TC, and in the earlier portions of this game (and the vast majority of other games frankly) this is not a concern, but I do think that some of FE6 is in a relatively unique position given enemy stats relative to yours + accuracy and ORKO concerns for you and enemies. Chapter 23 is to me the pinnacle of this because with 3 Warps and Apocalypse Niime the map becomes a total joke - Dragonshield Percival (or Alan, but he got speed screwed in my run so Brunya doubled him, tbh Miledy could probably do it too), can be dance warped to reach the right forest tile near the gate and depending on how durable they are only have to dodge like 1 attack from the Manakete and the boss whilst the rest of the enemies can't scratch or have nearly 0 hitrates, and with a weak enough weapon (like a hand axe) he wont clear the way so they just try to surrounding him. Your unit's position triggers the AI to stop blocking the entranceway (I think they're tied to the Manakete) so you have a clear path next turn to Warp a bosskiller to kill Brunya (who is weighed down by Bolting so easier to hit and doesn't counter), then Warp Roy. This strategy doesn't even require a Saint Staff use and you only need to kill the 2 enemies near the start + the boss. Add a Sleep Staff on the Killer Ballista and I'm confident it has something like a 40 to 50% CoS for a 2 turn, wheras actually trying to slow down to make sure the throne area is clear so that the bosskiller can continously engage whilst still going at a reasonable pace is pretty taxing, especially due to all the Killer Weapons and likely requires multiple stall turns or Saint Staff uses. I think if one is willing to blow an extra Rescue Staff or position Shin more precariously you can also have him try to finish off if Rutger/Percival fail to kill with Durandal, (but he'd need a lot of Strength to pull it off). Yeah fair enough. Granted though, even experienced players still learn things here and there about the enemy AI and the way they'll chose to move and attack even today, so that's not something you can act like one can generally handle as long as they are vets. Even if the EXP pool is limited, there are a limited amount of units that can take that EXP early on, and they are definitely high up on the pecking order. A larger limiting factor on their EXP gain is more Marcus's Axe Rank, since not only is Hammer Marcus nifty for flexability, but if you opted to get the Halberd in Chapter 3 then he makes good use of it in Chapter 7. However Marcus tends to ORKO Soldiers if he uses Axes, so that limits the EXP available for other units in various Chapters. On reset he actually has 25 base speed so 21 AS with the weapons he wields. You could rig it down if you wanted to I guess assuming we're playing on the unfixed RNG patch or are allowing suspend abuse.
  11. Best 3 - Binding Blade 2 - Path of Radiance 1 - Mystery of the Emblem Worst 3 - Radiant Dawn 2 - Awakening
  12. tierlist

    The 2 use Javelin thing could work but it makes the reliability of even killing him pretty sus since the hitrates become notably worse, and that Druid also has Nos. I was originally thinking of a Brave Lance to try to get him before he even counters, and it would still let you get the KO if you hit the next 2 (assuming you quad which Miledy should) I'm not disputing the fact that the higher reliability clears with more warp can result in large disparities in better expected TCs, but merely that there is effectively a hard limit on how many "reliability" Warps one can afford to use. Within that buffer I'd be comfortable assuming more warps or possibly a slower strat depending on the map, but I'm pretty skeptical that you can afford to start taking Warps out of maps like 19S, 16X, 21X, etc, especially when we consider that it's not like the bosskills in slower clears actually become more reliable, we're just able to try to keep going without resetting. So it's quite likely in fact for them to take an extra bunch of turns due to misses and the like, which may skew it further in favor of the originally faster 2/3 turns. I'm not averse to trying to avoid resets, but I think maybe it would also be useful to consider that longer more complicated strategies tend to involve resets in order to construct them to a point of acceptable reliability; ie, we realise we needed a different loadout for x unit to deal with y because we didn't forsee the enemy moving or attacking a particular target, etc. The shorter strategies are simpler generally, which limits the amount of resets one probably needs to do in the planning stage. I realise this is getting really abstract so I'm not saying it has to be tiering policy, but I'm interested in what you think of that. Training Roy might be easier if you neglect Alance but Chapter 8 is one of the best places to get Shanna extra EXP before she promotes, and Noah has to soak a lot of it to promote for Chapter 9. It's also not like you can easily just shovel the EXP Alance aren't taking into Shanna in the earlier maps like 3 either, because like most units at that point she has to be handled with a degree of care. If we want to talk benefits of Noah, I was thinking that, given that ideally one funnels exp into one Cav rather than two in order to reach higher levels before promotion (12 to 14), if you've dumped a lot of EXP into one Cav and they're statistically poor, it probably takes less EXP to get Noah to level 11 or so than it will to get the other Cav to an acceptable level. This is sort of a similar argument to the Rutger/Fir thing admittedly, but that is what got me wondering about how we could apply that kind of logic elsewhere, to see if it makes sense in other contexts or if the tenants are shaky. EDIT: also I goofed and thought gates were 2 def in FE6 fsr so Monke and Randy need +1 str on those calcs I did the other day for SM "reliable" ORKOs, jesus. I don't think either SM is really getting either of them down in one round realistically without Bartre route's Energy Ring.
  13. I would like FE games to be less juvenile but that doesn't neccessarily mean more tits and gore. If anything the series has gotten less mature as time went on despite the stylistic changes seemingly becoming more "mature". There are some mature aspects of FE4 but those parts of the game aren't really it. Those are really just part of the atmosphere and mood of the game, to add grittiness to all the hyperidealised fantasy going on. As a whole I wouldn't really describe it as a mature game, since a lot of the way things are handled is in a juvenile manner. Sure, its more mature than the modern games, but that's a low standard to set. FE4 lacks the kind of proper character scrutiny neccessary for a truly mature work; Travant and Levin are the closest you get with Arvis and Ishtar trailing very far behind. If it had developed more on things like Shannan's lingering guilt over how he was indirectly responsible for so many of the things that happened to Sigurd's family, and didn't jumble it's own messages about trying to understand how even your worst enemies are people via making 80% of antagonists to be just be ugly assholes, then maybe it'd be more than basically a highly ambitious fantasy rpg with gritty undertones. I think I've said this elsewhere but a FE4 where Gen 2 is heavily modified to have Shannan and Oifey as the protagonists with Seliph basically just being a claimant figurehead they use to rally their rebellion would have had a lot more potential I think. Levin kind of does that anyway but it's in a very ephemeral way because of how Forseti is basically a god. Seliph could have come into his own at some point through awareness of his role. I guess all that stuff is basically done in Thracia though so yay for FE5 (but I was totallly thinking about it when I first played FE4 too).