kDog214

I-R-O-N-Y. :P

Screw DG+ and Avoid +10!!! The sun god says hi!!!

@Trisket Hmm...just a thought. If Yarne really wants the Wyvern Rider line and Fred could potentially be used elsewhere, why not just pair off Panne with Virion? Yarne doesn't really need an offensive proc (considering he is mostly relegated to support). Plus, if his pairing wants Dual Guard+ (its effect I found can be quite minimal at times), I'm pretty sure whoever he's paired with will most likely have access to it or have a slot available for it...Just my two cents on the matter. This is a good setup and all, but how will the rest of your pairings look? Just curious.

@Trisket For harder DLCs (namely Apotheosis), magic is the most dominant stat and skills are more important than caps. Though, optimization and magic only makes things easier. Due to infinite grinding, you can practically put any team together (given that they have Limit Breaker) and they'll still manage to pass the secret route on Apotheosis. Most of the pairings here are great; however, there are a few changes that could be made. So, based on what I'm seeing here you've already done: RickenxMiriel ChromxOlivia FeMUxLaurent And so you basically have Cordelia, Sully, Panne, Tharja, Nowi, Maribelle, Lissa, Frederick, and Cherche (am I missing anyone?). Here are the recommendations I'd like to make and my reasoning behind them: Stahl!Severa - great caps; she also gains Luna and Vantage for going on the offensive and defensive; Galeforce units appreciate Luna for reliable proc rate. Donnel!Kjelle - gives Kjelle class diversity that is only contested by Morgan; also Donnel's best child and he doesn't hurt Kjelle's stats all that much. Gregor!Yarne - makes an excellent berserker for pair up; Yarne also appreciates Sol and Vantage, which is good for going on the defense during enemy phase; Armsthrift is just there for convenience. Gaius!Noire - this is a good pairing. Vaike!Nah - mainly for skills; as a Manakete, or everything else really, she appreciates Sol; for any other class, she truly appreciates the Armsthrift. Lon'qu!Brady - best support; hook him up with Deliverer and Movement +1 for some serious Galeforce shenanigans. Libra!Owain - Ricken is generally the best father for Owain mainly due to him being a Galeforce unit; he certainly appreciates the Luna and even more class diversity; the mods are also a huge plus; however, Libra is a fine choice as well, since no one else will take Libra besides Olivia...and maybe FeMU; Owain is pretty much hooked with everything he needs except Luna; Libra just basically gives him Vengeance for VV (Vantage and Vengeance) tanking. Henry!Cynthia - good magical mods, no class overlap, and one of Henry's two best children alongside Brady. Frederick!Gerome - for PavGis and Dual Guard+...but mostly Dual Guard+ because Gerome is best for support; Vaike makes him an excellent Berserker support on the other hand; however, Vaike is better off elsewhere (though not really), solely for the reason that he passes Armsthrift to his daughters and not sons; if you want Vaike!Gerome on the other hand: try Kellam/Frederick!Nah and Vaike!Gerome. This is the best I've got to offer. You can disagree with any of the pairings I've suggested here.

@ Trisket - What are you looking for in your pairings? Optimization, or something new and kinky?

TC! You jinxed it! xD [/takes everyone's popcorn anyway and sets a counter trap card]

Hey man. Who says Gregor!Brady doesn't make a good War Monk. ; ) Well, in any case. This is a thread about helping others regardless of their pairings, yes? Unless we're told that it's for the sake of pure optimization, I'm pretty sure we'll already understand and will offer the best help we can give. As for second gens, I really mean it. Second gen pairings can look however you want. That's the best advice I can give. ------------------- Regardless, I'll try and see if I can help. Let me try to run you through the process. If you want your second gen pairs optimized, you have to consider what bonus each class provides: Great Lord: 4 Speed, 4 Luck Hero: 3 Skill and Speed, 2 Luck Wyvern Lord: 4 Strength and Defense Manakete: 2 Strength, Magic, Defense, and Resistance Sage: 4 Magic and 2 Skill and Resistance Grandmaster: 2 Strength, Magic, Skill, and Speed Taguel: 3 Strength and Speed, and 2 Skill Swordmaster: 5 Speed and 3 Luck Sniper: 3 Strength and Skill, and 2 Defense General: 3 Strength and 5 Defense Next, you just have to figure out who wants what and who'll benefit most from that pair up. Now this is fairly time consuming, but the general consensus seems to have always been that the most optimal class pairing is SagexDark Flier, simply for the reason that Galeforce is a game-breaking mechanic with Celica's Gale and that each class offers what the other wants. Sage offers magic and skill while Dark Flier offers magic and speed. As a plus, Sage can provide Staff support. And so, no pair has ever come close to being its contender. This is the most common one I've seen throughout the forum consistently. Other class pairings have been basically flushed down the toilet due the meta being rampant with Galeforce optimization. I would say pairings like PaladinxHero are an honorable mention for tanking; however, that too has been trivialized by magic users in the form of VV tanks with Celica's Gale and Dual Strike + Lucina... So, bearing that in mind, if I were to create an optimized list, I'd have to sit here and ask myself: What does Great Lord Lucina want? I'd then have to look at the possibilities that are available and match her with someone that'd make for an efficient pair. Then, I'd have to go down the list and ask myself what the next unit wants and repeat the same procedure over and over until all the pieces fit together...Of course, as you can imagine, that'd take quite some time. Hence, the reason why I'm telling you to go with your gut instinct on this one...It's simply not worth optimizing the second gen pairings. EDIT: Well, don't get me wrong, there are such things as bad pairings. For one thing, I'd highly discourage you from pairing a Manakete with a Wyvern Lord who already has -2 speed mod. Because both would probably appreciate the gain in speed (from like a Great Lord, Hero, Grandmaster, Taguel, or Swordmaster) more than they would in strength and defense.

In The Future Past 2, Brady is a War Monk. And another thing, second gen pairings can look however the way you like, man. Go with what speaks to you. Otherwise, if you want an optimized list, someone will offer you a better one than what I'd come up with.

This really isn't far from what most people will recommend you: And you're already passing down Galeforce to any male children that'd get it from their moms (Owain, Inigo, and Brady), so you're good on that. For the rest, you generally want to pass down skills that you don't really want to grind for, like Galeforce and Aegis. ----------------------------------------- If you want any opinion on optimization, I'd say Gregor and Ricken are missing from the picture. They're simply too good for what they offer and should be paired off. I've tried switching around a lot of things and think these are the changes you can make: These are definite pairings for reasons stated below: SumiaxHenry - Simply for the reason that no one else will take Henry besides Maribelle; makes the best magical non-MU Cynthia. CherchexFrederick - Frederick is the best father for Gerome; make the best overall non-MU Gerome. You can fiddle around with any of these, but these are what I recommend: CordeliaxLon'Qu - I know it's overrated, but much like Henry's circumstance, no one else will take Lon'Qu besides Maribelle; Maribelle is...quite popular for these two gentlemen, no? He's good enough for Laurent thanks to Vantage, but...another child with Galeforce really wants that Deliverer...and that's kind of where Severa fits in. PannexStahl - Stahl's a good dad and would be a shame not to pair off. Yarne will certainly appreciate the Dual Guard+ for support, which is where he's mostly relegated to. OliviaxLibra - A great alternative for Olivia besides Chrom. No class overlap and makes a decent magic Inigo. LissaxRicken - Owain gets Luna. He also gets Dual Guard + and Aegis, but Luna is pretty much all he wants. Plus, he gets +5 MAG modifier (yay?). MirielxGregor - Basically makes the best sorcerer Laurent, which most people on this forum seem to disdain...Sorcerers, I mean. EDIT: Keep in mind this is if you want any opinion on optimization. You can simply ignore this part.

So sorry ^_^' But I agree with you nonetheless xD EDIT: Agree with you on your statement that beating Apotheosis without DLC is impossible because it is a DLC itself...that is. DOUBLE EDIT: To clarify, and I'm not trying to be a grammar Nazi (because I'm guilty of making tons of grammatical mistakes on my comments as well), there was great confusion on my end because I thought you were trying to say something in two sentences. I quite literally read what I thought was the first sentence as: "Dude, I meant that since Apoth." I thought you ended your sentence abruptly, so I was getting a little frustrated trying to figure out what you were saying. Then I read through it again, and thought, "Oh, that's what you're trying to say!" So, yes. I'm sorry about that. I had a major brain fart when I read that. And I hope I'm not assuming anything when I say that I agree with this: ------------------------------------------------------- Now before I derail this topic any further (I swear, I feel like I'm being pushed into these kinds of situations lately =_=), here's my team: [spoiler=Need improv.] Greeting: No! Challenge: Not that kind... Recruitment: Of improv. Robin (Tactician) Equipment: - Back off (Tree Branch) - Owain... (Dying Blaze) Skills: N/A Owain (Barbarian) Equipment: - Look (Ladle) - at this (Ladle) - body!!! (Ladle) Skills: N/A

With Sumia as mom, I really think Lucina should be a Dark Flier, mainly because she has access to both Tomefiare and Lancefaire, and has +0 STR Mod and +1 MAG Mod. That is just personal preference. If you want her to use Parallel Falchion so that you don't either buy weapons or forge as often, then Great Lord, Bow Knight, Great Knight or Paladin are just fine. I personally think that with Frederick as Dad, Gerome would make a fantastic Paladin pair up for Nah. In my opinion, the -2 SPD mod is a huge turn off from using Gerome as either a Wyvern Lord or General but that's just me. Wyvern Lord on the other hand is good for Mobility and tanking physical hits where it is appropriate. As for Nah, I've always felt Vaike allows her to be a fantastic Hero, but that's just me. I always tend to favor the Paladin and Hero Pair Up mainly for balance, so excuse me for my favoritism/elitism here (I honestly don't know what to call it). xD

Getting a headache reading this. >.< Okay, if you're saying what I think you mean, then yes, the notion of beating Apotheosis without DLC is contradictory as it is a DLC in and of itself...yeah, makes more sense to me that way. xD

Then you haven't seen this, my friend (he goes by the name MAtt5TER Matt5er, I believe?--Dear lord! Sorry fella. Looks like I don't know how to spell your name =_=' nvm found your name in the link provided xD):