commonguard

Why do you jump to conclusions and assume I want a class on syntax? You seem to have misconceptions as to why I bothered recording any of the videos at all. Let me make one thing clear. While entertaining people is nice and all, I don't care much for it. The purpose of recording the videos is to show that the turn counts are reasonable and to motivate people to try and beat the turn count. (I do want to see the turn count beaten. I just don't think it will happen for a while.) If you wanted a fully recorded run of the game, you've come to the wrong thread. Honestly, there are not many chapters where I feel it is so difficult to figure out a clear that achieves the same turn count. At least a half a dozen of the chapters are not even the absolute minimums (wrt Rescue/Again uses). For instance, theoretical minimum for C12 is 5 turns (no Rescue). Marth (levels rigged for MAG procs) danced on turn 1, dodge and crit everything in his path with a levin sword while other units just punch a hole for him so he sneak his way to the gate. You know what, who is good at FE12 LTC/Efficiency runs here? I know Miikaya and PKL for sure. Is KoT still alive here? Put your heads together and come up with a short list of chapters that need to be recorded, and I'll record them by the end of the week. (Keep the list under 6 or 7, I'm not recording the entire run.) C21

Do you know what the word "by" means? As for your questions, why don't you go watch the video in the OP to find out where I cut turns.

Credits will be up momentarily. Calm down. [spoiler=Lala, nonsense, lala] No. You very much do. You could not fathom a 145 turn completion without rigging and because you could not fathom it you made the implication I was rigging (again not clear on what growths, crits?). You do know H2 and H3 are different right? And you keep bringing up Yuminas death while never mentioning Yubellos death as if it is irrelevant. A link to Horaces draft clear would be nice. Otherwise shut up about H2. Do you have a learning disability? I called you a scrub because you couldnt fathom 145 being possible without rigging. I made a statement saying if 173 CR is trash then 150 IR is basically shit in response to Chikis post calling my CR run trash. And know you saying if youre a scrub for 150 turning the game, Im terrible for missing 7 turns in CR. Go take this up wth Chiki. Pfft. Hahaha. Let me guess, youre one of those deluded idiots who thinks LTC is the end all be all of difficulty right? Newsflash, it isnt. Much of the difficulty of this game comes from having to engage enemies and having to field shit-for-brain units to recruit retarded ones. IR has less gold but more freedom with unit selection and despite what you may think, if you are good at maximizing exp gains the levels arent very different. Next youll tell me all RP does is add reliability to LTC strats. Oh wait Lol. Then call off Chiki who is barking on about plagiarism. Go do that (publically) if you dont care about credit. Well apparently, it isnt obvious to that hound who is accusing me of plagiarism. Maybe go tell him to calm down? Lol, backpedalling. Maybe you should think your next post through more carefully before you decide to slander someone for doing something better than you. If that is the inference you are making, maybe you should stop making inferences and ask me for my reason for recording. It isnt because those chapters are necessarily different/same or whatever. Its because those chapters were the hardest for me to figure out. Why dont you watch the turncounts to see where I cut turns? Whats weird is you dont know much about FE12 and yet you jump the ridiculous conclusion that Im plagiarizing PKLs work. Unjustifiably presumptuous dont you think? And you would know this how? Have you read my notes in my run? I do have Level.exp, kills units got for maps up to C14 and financials for the entire run but they are on pencil and paper right now. If Im feeling notlazy I might put them in notepad or something. Sigh. If you want to know where I cut turns, instead of speculation you could pretty easily just watch the turn count reel. Jeez, your logic. Where is it? Wait, youre a mod? Not sure if you aware of this, but you dont think that perhaps, just maybe, you should know if flaming is allowed? I mean, jesus, its in the Code of Conduct in the bottom right corner. Its probably hard for you to find or maybe you are confused and it really should be called Da Rules or something. You should go check to make sure; we cant have mods running around not knowing what the rules are. Thatd be just silly. While you are there be a doll and fetch me your definition of flaming. Im kind of curious as to what definition you use. Thank you, this was good advice. I was being foolish in making this too personal. What I should have done was be my normal pedantic self and could've saved myself a great deal of time. Truly, thank you. So according to the two posts above, videos rule out cheating and its easy to rig everything while not recording. Before I expose some interesting things about PKL's run, Im going to give him an opportunity to step forward and be honest about any abuse in his run. Did you rig any growths PKL did you ever use save states or any other thing that would be perceived as cheating/rigging?

Whether you believe me or not is up to you but I havent seen anything since C4 of PKLs run. And how is a 3-turn of C4 a slight improvement? Are you familiar with the maps in this game? Because I have access to your skype conversations with me obviously being such great friends with you and dondon151 right? Oh wait, didnt dondon151 call me a liar once before for basically no reason and insult me in sub-forums I never bothered to post in? Yeah, disrespectful Lol. You wish I was a bad as you. Btw as the title would suggest, its an open challenge to beat the turncount so go ahead and try. If 173 for complete recruitment is trash then PKL's 150 in complete recruitment run is basically shit. I peg reasonable minimum being at 166 (1 above KoT's run). And lol at your implications that I improved because of PKL. I had already finished a testrun of Incomplete Recruitment H3 in mid-April at 149 turns http://youtu.be/xpMyjC1qgPg and again have you seen the turn counts? PKL apparently doesn't even think 145 is possible without rigging (lolwhatascrub). Seriously, go suck PKL's dick somewhere else. Kay? Why is everyone jumping to the conclusion that I'm using PKL's strategies? And credit will be given for his C3 clear. I have no issue with giving people credit where its due. Many of them are really not. When I recorded my H4 Mage (complete recruitment with villages visited) I found myself recording pretty much the same strategies for all but C4, C13 (5 turns now), and C17 and apart from C13 none of them are relevant to LTC so no one here will care anyway. Playlist here if you want to watch 20+ maps with the same strategies http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLX-Vj6mr54GkvCVlmu_6p8696y0WtbXJj. And I couldnt give a shit if you think Im cheating (whatever the fuck that means in a single player game). Youre the same clown who called me a liar when I said you could get Sirius to level 13 without detriment to the rest of the team. Nah, it just requires favouritism in the form of Feena dancing, sacrifices, and telling Luke to go find exp elsewhere in the early game. Thanks for speaking in my defence but I think the video below will do more to squash these retarded claims that I'm copying PKL's strategies. The rest of what I said will be recorded and uploaded by tomorrow morning.

Turncounts start at 2:40. Turncount total is 145. I got A for Speed (as always...). E for Tactics (lolwut?). And D for survival (bullshit!). I only recorded P-8 for the run but I have archived battery saves for all of the chapters and will record some of the maps. Is it fair to assume C4, C5, C6, C8, and C21 are the only chapters that require a recording? Credits: The vast majority of this run was done ideas present in my old H3 run (complete recruitment), my H4 Mage run, Miikaya's H4 Efficiency thread (many of the openings for chapters), KoT's H3 thread (very handy for Rescue/Again usage). [spoiler=Full Credit List] P-1, P-2, P-3, P-4A, P-5, P-6O, P-7C (4-4-4-3-4-2-3 24 turns total) Same as CR H3 run. I'm too lazy to look up who I credited with what clears right now but I will amend this section later. P-8 (7 turns) Balcerzaks opening in his run H3 myrm run. Instead of having myrm!MU ORKO the silver axe bandit, I have Athena weaken it for knight!MU (who should be doubled) to counter KO on EP 3. This is an old clear that I brought up when I first joined this forum however it has been made into a reasonable clear by exp modifications in the previous prologue chapters. C1 (6 turns) Same as CR H3 run. C2 (6 turns) Original clear by Miikaya. Same as CR H3 run with whatever modifications Id already made (Iron axe forge, DK!Arran). Credit to Miikaya for the majority of the clear. C3 (6 turns) Original clear by PKL. merc!Luke subbing for hunter!Ryan with Speedwing + RP. Kind of hard to describe but the positioning for Arran, MU and Palla are different and what it allows is Palla to get the boss kill and Marth to kill Mathis on the player phase with one of the cavs suiciding to Marth on the enemy phase. I dont use hunter!Gordin, instead I just use Bord to tank ballista hits on turns 1 and 4. He dies because the 2 vulneraries that could be used to keep him alive sell for 120G, his life is worthless C3x (6 turns) This is different from CR H3 run. Pretty close to how my H4 Mage C3x is done. The clear is done without fielding MU, but instead hunter!Luke, Linde, PK!Palla, cav!Catria, Malicia. C4 2 Rescue (3 turns) Video was recorded. Yubello sacrifice to protect Ogma. Yumina cant be saved after she rescues Marth. Gordin died because of positioning purposes to maximize exp gain for merc!Luke. C5 2 Rescue (8 turns) Video was recorded. Should be noted that some credit should be given to KoTs run for making me aware it is possible to 8-turn the map. (There is a typo in his thread though, he has C5 as 1 Rescue, it is, in fact 2 Rescue.) Obviously a more conservative opening can be done but I put MU in boss range to help get Caeda more exp. C6 1 Hammerne, 2 Rescue (4 turns) Video was recorded. Wingspear crit with save point on 4 for boss kill. Norne sacrificed to guarantee Frey would be able to use the save on turn 4. C6x 1 Rescue (1 turn) Paperblades clear. C7 1 Rescue (4 turns) Feena dance order is Navarre, Palla, Marth, Marth. Just kill stuff Navarre uses saves on 2 (for Devil hit) and 4 (for boss kill). The dragon can be spawned by standing near the edge of its attack range; you dont have to be in the attack just very close to it (see H4 Mage C7 clear if unsure). C8 1 Rescue (2 turns) Video was recorded. Cain sacrificed to protect Luke indirectly by having the square to Lukes left occupied and thus being able to be attacked by only one side. C9 1 Rescue, 2 Thief (5 turns) Similar to CR H3 run. Again credit to dondon151 for Feenas starting position. Linde, after being handed the Thief staff moves to Nosferatu-tank 1 DK. Sirius will KO that DK; Caeda and sniper!Wendell + Linde will KO 2 more DKs. cleric!Cecille is sacrificed to give the remaining DK a target that is not important to the rest of the run. Sirius will be fed the DK as well as both of the DKs Linde pulls. (Sirius gets 4 DKs on this map. Luke gets a mage and some chip exp.) C10 (2 turns) I killed Elrean here because I wanted to field Etzel for staff rank. C10x (1 turn) Same as CR H3. Credit to mjemirzian for the L-trick. C11 2 Rescue (5 turn) Mm... the strategy is hard to explain but do I need to? Its different from my CR H3. Etzel doesnt need to kill any of the wyrms and Marth should follow Linde to steal her kill. If you watch my H4 C11 clear there is a spot where Linde can move to where she can kill a wyrm on turn 4 and pick up the Armscroll on 5. C12 1 Rescue (5 turn) Same as H4 Mage C12 except HM!Luke instead of SM!Luke. Credit to mjemirzian again for ORKO bandits idea. This clear leaves 3 wyrms (in the north) and 1 bandit alive before seizing. Also, features Paladin!Caeda. DK!Caeda may be SPD capped and giving Caeda levels when shes SPD capped is just stupid. C13 1 Rescue (3 turns) Rescue Feena so she can dance Marth one turn 1 after stepping into the river and again on turn 2. Final dance is for Sirius. I might record this clear to demonstrate how to get the most amount of dragon kills. C13x (2 turns) Similar to CR H3 except HM!Luke ORKOing the ballista and tanking Kleine. (Athena sacrificed so Luke only takes 2 hits.) Luke gains 8 bow WEXP on this map. C14 1 Rescue, 1 Thief (4 turns) Feena dance Sirius, Marth, Linde, Catria. Opening is similar to Miikayas. I used Sniper!Luke with Parthia can ORKO ice dragons on this map provided he has 20 STR and RP. I think I gave MU a Talisman because Xane didnt heal enough to tank 2 mages with just Fortify (Etzel uses physic on Sirius). I kill 18/19 dragons on this map. C15 2 Again (4 turns) Sort of similar to H4 Mage C15. Credit to PKL for the original clear. If Linde is placed very aggressively and you have DK!MU you can get all the items from the enemies from the village area, and the thief items and even use the save point on turn 3. Malicia danced once to use Again on Marth twice so that he can move thrice on the fourth turn and seize before the fith. C16 1 Thief (2 turns) Same as CR H3. I did forge crit onto a Javelin here. Also killed Astram, because Jeorge already died. C16x (1 turn) Kill everything except Katarina and 2 snipers and have Berserker!MU with a handaxe traded to the top of his inventory ready to counter Katerina with HM!Luke (RP and Starsphere to counter KO the Snipers). If Luke cant tank 2 snipers as an HM he will miss out on 8 bow WEXP. C17 (4 turns) Credit to Miikaya again. Similar to CR H3 except SM!Sirius instead of HM!Sirius and Etzel was fielded. No need to use the Rescue or Again here. Marth should be positioned in range of the longbow sniper. AI on this map and basically every map following this is very strange at times. Palla drew the warrior with crit chance I think. Im not sure if its the longbow sniper or the warrior that moves first but you might be able to force the warrior to move first by having someone like Arran or Wendell in place of Palla. C18 1 Rescue (2 turns) Oh jeez. I might record this map the positioning is going to take me forever to describe. It requires a General who is 4HKOd (Catria comes to mind) and MU to have 31-32 DEF with Starsphere. Marth visits village on turn 2, I get all the items and I use the save point on 1 just in case the killer lance general decides to crit Linde. This is not a Nosferatu-tank strategy. C19 1 Rescue, 1 Again (5 turns) Used Miikayas opening (because I failed those stupidly high benchmarks for my CR H3 opening) except MU had starsphere and Hammer. MU dislodges 2 of the generals on 1, kills the boss on 2, flees into the mountains on 3, steals a kill on 4 and kills Wolf on 5. Xane, Luke and a bunch of scrubs will handle the Paladins. I only engage 2 Warriors and only kill the thief that drops the Silver sword. Feena rescued on 5 (she can be rescued on turn 4 if the rescue is assisted to get Marth to an appropriate tile but it is unnecessary and puts Marth in harms way there is quite a bit of move leeway for this on turn 5). C20 (5 turns) Sort of similar to H4 Mage C20 (Sirius is a Paladin for the extra move). Apparently you can keep Midia alive by not aggroing the sniper near the NW Fortify bishop. C20x (4 turns) Credit to MagicBarrier16/Miikaya. C21 1 Rescue, 1 Again (5 turns) Video was recorded. Credit to KoT (again not for the clear itself but the knowledge that it could be done honestly rigging or not getting Minerva to the village on turn 4 and then keeping her alive without training her is pretty amazing). I missed this in the testrun but I figured it out when I did H4 Mage run. Pull one of the wyrms from the northern group on turn 1 with MU so that Feena can be close enough on turn 2 that if she uses her full movement on turns 3-5 she can dance Marth after hes rescued, and pull the wyrms near the boss with Catria and get her into position to land a killer lance crit. Luke needs some serious durability, a robe and shield + maybe an arena level for DEF. Marths durability check isnt quite as high but he still needs to be quite durable preferably 20 DEF after RP + SoS. C22 1 Again (4 turns) Same as CR H3 except with HM!Sirius. C23 1 Rescue (4 turns) Similar to my H4 Mage C23. I used something similar to Miikayas opening except the sides are switched I think and SM!Palla replaces Etzel. Remember how I was fussing about purewaters? This chapter is why. Pretty much anyone who doesnt attack on turn 1 gets a purewater usage. I only need the starlight crit but I specifically need MU not to crit either of the dragons he attacks. +4 Mt Javelin chip + +3 Mt Dragonpike forge kills fire dragons provided MU is a max STR, A Lnc Paladin. Caeda sacrificed because I didnt have the gold to purchase robes in this run. C24 - 3 Rescue, 1 Again (1 turn) Minverva danced to recruit Maria and KO Lena. Maria rescues cleric!Merric. Merric recruits Elice and rescues Sirius. Sirius recruits Nyna and

9x2 + 7 = 25 right? Anyone got an explanation?

Finally got around to recording. C1 and C2 are pretty easy maps, compared to what I'm expecting C4 to be anyway. I might update C3 tomorrow night. If not, will be not be for a long while. [spoiler=C1 8 turns] 10000 G Starting Forged +8 Mt, +5 Hit Iron bow (8360 G) - the premium on the +5 Hit is 220 G or something absurdly low, why not? Sold Bullion (S) (+5000 G) Bought 2x Javelin (1500 G) 5140 G Remaining Optimized from my initial clear; this one consumes one more vulnerary (3 total) but gets Marth 2 more kills, gets Rody the coveted thief kill and even features an extended Cecille manipulation. Luke can semi-reliably hit his benchmarks for the clear (~75% overall; ~80% to get 2 SPD on base at level 6, ~95% to get 6 HP+DEF on base at level). The numbers here are without RP. No, I did not pull these numbers out of my ass. The actual overall probability is (slightly) greater than 77%. Strong present Mage!MU has only 55% of getting 6/8 HP procs @ 70 growth (assuming RNG is uniformly distributed). With RP she only needs 4/8 (~95% chance). As mentioned before I can afford to sell some of my swords to fund an Angelic robe purchase; currently however I am opting to maintain flexibility. Rody gains 2 levels on this map... he's really not that difficult to train. [spoiler=C2 6 turns] Bought Speedwing, Fire (2800 G) Forged +1 Mt, +10 Hit Javelin (1875 G) 465 G Remaining Used Speedwing on Marth - I kind of want him doubling some of the slower enemy types on future maps and it'll help him get some kills. I am not anticipating that anyone other than Palla and Sirius needing wings. Pretty reliable clear. Only thing is the end sequence; Javelin tosses are kind of a drag with the hit rates but it's bearable. The Cav manipulation on turn 2 is important, if Marth has to tank it, he should double and ORKO it. I don't see Mage!MU beating this chapter in 6 turns without an Iron forged bow but not certain. Maybe she could do it with a sacrifice but I didn't explore such options. Umm.. is there a manual for this site? Like for code options and stuff?

Say all (3) of the Levin swords break. Is Cecille going to go back to a healer? Also, why didn't you surround the hunter instead giving it of a quick death?

[spoiler=Vote related]So I'm going to veto the RP vote. I'm not going to use it since I got this No booster purchases (but I should probably sell some excess swords to fund the purchase of an Angelic robe for MU as she survives with only 1 HP). I did make a +8 Mt Iron bow (was going to make it for C2 and the rest of the game anyway). All of the other vote results will be accepted. Sorry to those who voted for RP. The clear would be cleaner if Luke starts with 9 STR going into the map but he needs to proc STR on his first level. Other than that there isn't much wrong with this. A reckless continuation from turn 6 that consumes all of my vulneraries can net an 11 turn, and add a bit of luck (2 random dodges, one was a handaxe) can net this. I take advantage of Merric proccing SPD (and therefore not being doubled by max SPD Levin!Thieves as well as Caeda proccing 2 STR (and therefore being able to ORKO low HP/DEF Silver!Thieves). Although, a reset can be done for the RHS Levin!Thief to spawn with 13 SPD and Caeda with 1 STR proc can ORKO min HP/DEF Silver!Thieves. No sound up to the first save point because WindowsMovieMaker apparently can't 2x sound or something. Or can it and I'm just dumb? 13 turns. Have 4 vulneraries going into C1.

Fully intend on using Rody. He's (hopefully) going to be a good hunter -> Sniper, Bow!Horseman, Bow!Warrior (perhaps some Devil axe action? he'll have decent LUK), and alternative C Rank lance user (will still need some work even after the lance rank from promotion bonus kicks in but he should be close). He's so much worse than Luke who is basically good enough right out of the prologue but seems like the next best option. Well, I guess Draug is there but he's got so many non-SPD growth issues. Best case scenario for C3 is 18 turn (since voting results so far seem to indicate I'm to visit all of the villages), so maybe I can time the opening of the bridge to handle the boss area more swiftly. Palla is likely going to have to shoulder much of the early game burden that MU normally would, but Sirius can help her. Although I'm not sure if how well Sirius can recover. MU is stupidly SPD blessed, but I think overall she will still be inferior to an Angelic robed Linde since Linde is (on average) faster and will usually have uncontested access to Spirit dusts. I lack AK!MU and will probably end up giving some dusts to Malicia for healing purposes. As for speed of the clears, I've given it some thought and I don't think I'll care too much for AK!MU's minimums. Early game, my goal is to manage turn counts while maintaining enough vulneraries (which is why I haven't posted P-8 yet) to keep a decent pace. Later on, I'll pace the maps so the team is productive enough in acquiring items and exp to justify any potentially lost turns. TBH, forced village visiting will help with pacing, although it's also going to make C4 a nightmare.

H4 Orphan, Strength, Honourable Female Mage!MU. Mixed classes, Forges, Lunatic boosters, Bonds, and Base arena are okay. RP, Drops, Wi-fi and Everybody's situation are not. All playable characters will be recruited and kept alive. All villages will be visited. (C15's joint village may or may not be up to a vote which I may or may not veto depending on how close the vote is.) This playthrough will be a semi-efficiency playthrough. That is, I'll keep dead turns (where nothing much is happening besides healing and movement or just literally nothing is happening) to a minimum but the style of play will be relatively safe (except maybe around save points - I don't know why I can't help myself around them). Prologue 51 turns P-1 6 P-2 6 P-3 7 P-4A 9 P-5 4 P-6O 3 P-7C 3 P-8 13 Chapters C1 8 C2 6 Anyway, P-1 to P-4A, P-5, P-6O, and P-7C. MU ends up pretty SPD and RES blessed by the end of P-7C.

What you are describing is DETERMINING. Not predicting. Are we done here?

I can predict the outcome of a coin toss. That does not enable me to control said outcome. Your argument is invalid.

[spoiler=to dondon151]Okay, so this is mostly about subjective difficulty (and possibly a lack of understanding of definition of words). Pending the resolution of the following matter I may or may not hand this discussion of to another individual. In what thesaurus are “predict” (guess) and “manipulate” (control) synonyms? The remainder of your argument seems to hinge on the definition of words (which you are playing incredibly fast and loose with btw) so I won't bother responding to that until the above is resolved either. I looked up a word that begins with the letter “i”. I don’t really know if it should concern anyone.

[spoiler=To dondon151] And I maintain it is. So now what? Can you disprove me? To be clear are you referring to expected damage or thresholds or both? Have you tried to exploit AI (as in do something you favour not necessarily just predict) with unwanted support bonuses flying around in tight corridors while lacking statistical control that boosters and RP offer? Have you tried doing that when enemies don't have a target they can directly engage? Really? You can predict enemy movement to specific squares (again without enemies having a target they can directly engage and also from what square they attack from) 90+% of the time? Have you tried the C2 long range Cav draw, C5 Sniper pull, C6 EP1 knight + mage positioning, C9 mage draw, C11 bandit + hunter pack pulls, C13 centre island dragon split pull that I described in the H3 tier list (this one is hard btw), etc? You can predict with 90+% chance where all of these enemies will move even though they are not given direct targets? Can you even predict if every enemy will attack from 2U, 1U1L or 2L if they are currently not on the same rank or file as their target at 90+% odds? Now some are easier than others but try doing the C5 Sniper draw (on turn 3 for the 9 turn clear) with a save point and reloading from the save to see how often even the northwesternmost sniper attacks MU from the same square. If you meant to say you can just predict what enemy attacks what playable character, yea... that's not really all that difficult but still if you have two units that are nearly identical and a level up occurs with a unit proccing DEF targets can change. So yea... 90+%... I'm assuming you pulled that number out of your ass. Oh and nice backpedal from "manipulate" to "predict". To something on topic, do you [irysa] plan to train the entire 7th platoon and swap them in and out or drop whoever turns out poorly? Edit: Why is my name red now? How do I get it back to green?