Florete

OMG it's a tier list

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why can't I hold all the strawman arguments!

oh ha ha

the point stands

jill transfer is a less relevant point of interest to the played experience of the majority of people playing the game, and yet it's absorbing 99% of debate here

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oh ha ha

the point stands

jill transfer is a less relevant point of interest to the played experience of the majority of people playing the game, and yet it's absorbing 99% of debate here

vast majority of people here aren't gonna have Haar do everything either, pointless argument is pointless

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vast majority of people here aren't gonna have Haar do everything either, pointless argument is pointless

thats a rather false point

haar practically begs to be overused from the getgo

not using him for everything requires more effort than using him for everything

unlike transfer jill who requires playing a game that isnt even this game, giving her specific bands and boosters (and in the case of def perhaps even rigging levels) to optimize her stat cappage, transfering that data to the game we actually want to play, then loading jill with EVEN MORE boosters and maybe as people are arguing here even the goddam boots simply to do something in 3-6 2 or 3 turns faster than other people can do it, which in conjunction with similar inefficient turnshaves somehow adds up to her contributing more than people who are ready to rumble right from start without all sorts of babymaking resource gluttony

if haar isn't doing the brunt of the work throughout part 3, you're gimping your ability to play this game

if jill isn't doing the brunt of the work when she's available, you're saving a boatload of time and resources at the cost of single-digit turnshaves

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i think spending so much time debating jill (t) is a waste of time because almost anyone playing this game is doing it either with no transfers or not the transfers jill (t) is listed to have

"oh hey you see this character who has been given steroids which you the player might not even have the capability of giving her? she's the best character in the game!"

Again, I already tried to make the list more relevant to people playing the game.

Although if someone is playing with transfers, what is listed is a pretty likely setup assuming they don't drop two robes on her or excessively rig BEXP levels in random mode for perfect gains.

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unlike transfer jill who requires playing a game that isnt even this game, giving her specific bands and boosters (and in the case of def perhaps even rigging levels) to optimize her stat cappage, transfering that data to the game we actually want to play, then loading jill with EVEN MORE boosters and maybe as people are arguing here even the goddam boots simply to do something in 3-6 2 or 3 turns faster than other people can do it, which in conjunction with similar inefficient turnshaves somehow adds up to her contributing more than people who are ready to rumble right from start without all sorts of babymaking resource gluttony

Weren't you arguing Volug down earlier?

Jill also is often the Boots recipient because of when we get the Boots. There aren't many DB members we want to use in Part 4 (just Jill and maybe Nolan) so either we use it on one of them or we have to wait until Part 4 or use it on Tauroneo or someone who won't do much for us past Part 3.

Edited by -Cynthia-

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Weren't you arguing Volug down earlier?

yeah

Edited by General Banzai

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thats a rather false point

haar practically begs to be overused from the getgo

not using him for everything requires more effort than using him for everything

unlike transfer jill who requires playing a game that isnt even this game, giving her specific bands and boosters (and in the case of def perhaps even rigging levels) to optimize her stat cappage, transfering that data to the game we actually want to play, then loading jill with EVEN MORE boosters and maybe as people are arguing here even the goddam boots simply to do something in 3-6 2 or 3 turns faster than other people can do it, which in conjunction with similar inefficient turnshaves somehow adds up to her contributing more than people who are ready to rumble right from start without all sorts of babymaking resource gluttony

if haar isn't doing the brunt of the work throughout part 3, you're gimping your ability to play this game

if jill isn't doing the brunt of the work when she's available, you're saving a boatload of time and resources at the cost of single-digit turnshaves

do you think most people give a shit about how good units are past a basic point of "doesn't suck"?

spoilers: the answer is no

hell, people even use FE9 Rolf, the epitome of fail

Edited by shadykid

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do you think most people give a shit about how good units are past a basic point of "doesn't suck"?

spoilers: the answer is no

hell, people even use FE9 Rolf, the epitome of fail

Then let's give Haar some more transfer bonuses

I got a PoR file which gives Haar +Str, +Spd, +Def, and +HP

Took some work, more work than Jill, sure, but I mean if we're really looking for how hard we can push this game, let's push a little harder now

But I always thought LTC stood for Low Turn Count, not Least Turn Count

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it would make almost literally no difference whether haar got transfers or not.

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it would make almost literally no difference whether haar got transfers or not.

iunno people keep bringing that "dude needs wings" shit up all the time

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Weren't you arguing Volug down earlier?

Jill also is often the Boots recipient because of when we get the Boots. There aren't many DB members we want to use in Part 4 (just Jill and maybe Nolan) so either we use it on one of them or we have to wait until Part 4 or use it on Tauroneo or someone who won't do much for us past Part 3.

I do question just how much the boots help in Part 3. I mean, Jill can't really get credit for Part 4 boots use if Haar (or someone else) can replicate her Part 4 if he gets boots. Jill still gets credit for the improved Part 3, of course. She'd just only get Part 4 boots improvement credit depending on how many units we can give them to that create that improvement. Even a slightly lesser improvement in Part 4 because of boots going to someone else cuts into her utility from getting boots.

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iunno people keep bringing that "dude needs wings" shit up all the time

yeah, but the thing is that after haar and titania on the speedwings priority list, there's like, no one who can use them that can also really contribute to faster clears. there's, like, boyd (T), and that's it.

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Then let's give Haar some more transfer bonuses

I got a PoR file which gives Haar +Str, +Spd, +Def, and +HP

Took some work, more work than Jill, sure, but I mean if we're really looking for how hard we can push this game, let's push a little harder now

But I always thought LTC stood for Low Turn Count, not Least Turn Count

I'm ok with that!

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I have already mentioned these numbers. Kysha takes 99 BEXP initially, then in the 3-7 base, he takes maybe 80EXP (since he gained some CEXP in 3-4), then you do the same in the 3-8 base. The total cost is somewhere in between 7000 and 8000 varying on how much CEXP he gets. That puts him on 26AS, also known as "fine for the rest of Part 3". 34ATK is a little bit below Ulki, so he's a reasonable canditate for a Drop: Ulki's not in urgent need because he has much more reliable Adept proc rates, but he sees more combat in general.

Now, for Kysha to have 28AS for Part 4, he needs more Blossom. Two more levels, to be accurate. That seems like a lot given how much we gave him already, but it comes after you have access to a huge amount of BEXP from the CRKs and taking that BEXP isn't so bad because it comes just before a huge windfall at the end of Part 3. Moreover, all that CEXP he gains between 3-8, 3-10, and 3-11 (a non-negligible amount) cuts the amount we need to give him. I specify doing this before Part 4 starts, because even though you can give him a Blossom level in 4-2, it means he's stuck with Blossom for the rest of the chapter, and as I've discussed Blossom is bad if you gain good CEXP as Kysha does in Part 4. Kysha almost certainly has S Strike as well; over his six Part 3 chapters, he would only need to enter combat 6 times per chapter when he doubles. That is easily manageable. So at the start of Part 4, he's sitting on 41ATK/28AS... which is pretty good, all things considered. He can go to the desert, or to 4-2 as he pleases: he can feasibly reach 30AS for 4-3. But his attack is still an issue. 41ATK doesn't 2HKO much. Sadly he's still in the position of only ORKOing Sages and Bishops reliably. A Drop fixes that to some extent but even with the Drop he's short on Halberdiers and Generals. Alternatively, you could try Adept, since his speed isn't so bad and he perpetually 3HKOes. Now that I consider it, Resolve isn't such a bad idea just to buff his proc rate with Adept. I found that I wasn't really using Resolve much myself in Part 4 and just using it as an easy durability fix for frailer units.

So really, Kysha's speed is pretty fixable with Blossom and BEXP, but his strength remains an issue. He's perpetually short of ORKOing. The question is, is that so much worse than certain low tier units? Makalov is never reliably going to 2HKO and has movement issues. He's much harder to dig out of his hole since it's just as expensive to BEXP him, you have to do it for more levels, and you can't even Blossom slowplay. Sigrun makes Kysha's strength and speed look good. She is not going to double in 4-3 full stop. Even with a max mt silver forge she struggles to match Kysha's attack. And her durability is miles behind Kysha. She also lacks the option of switching to Hawk Army.

I would think that Kyza being better than Soren in nearly every single way throughout their shared existence would be better than Soren's two chapters of forgettable chip damage. Soren is absolutely terrible after his forced chapters. For god's sake, the dude is 2HKO'd by everything and their mother and faces crit chances from everything. The dude also only has an 18 speed base as well as a 35% speed growth and a 23 T2 speed cap which, coupled by his 6 move, means he never doubles anything. Actually, he's at risk getting doubled by enemies such as Swordmasters. Soren is also forced on the Greil Route in Part 4 whereas Kyza can choose whichever army he wants (and he's fairly useful in both the Hawk and Silver armies).

Also the only resources that Kyza is taking are like, BEXP and an Energy Drop. The only people who care about the Drop are Volug and Ulki but you get two of them and both Volug and Ulki can live without them. The BEXP cost is admittedly pretty hefty but you get a lot of BEXP in this game and Kyza is a pretty good recipient of it. I mean its not like I'm arguing a wing on him or anything.

I'm not claiming Kyza is amazing is anything but his position is ridiculous considering who he's below. Take Rolf for instance. Rolf is a tier up on Kyza but he's total trash. His chip damage is not even good (27 Atk Atk hitting defense), and he has a slow leveling speed thanks to his lack of player phase, plus his speed is mediocre and he eventually needs to take a Crown. There's also Danved, who's only significant chapters are 2-3 and 3-9 but Danved isn't actually all that good in 2-3 thanks to his 7 move. He's better in 3-9 but he's not an exceptional unit there either. Plus Danved is worse in Part 4.

You can say, that this, sort of 'bought' me. Having had never actually used Kyza (among a few other, yet to explore, units), this opened up my mind, towards him. I am really curious as to what he's capable of- To me, it seems that he's a cool variant to the traditional strong, heavy and durable Tiger (implying he isn't hella durable, already...lol). This is one of the reasons I wanted to go through FE10 again, actually.

Uhhh, regarding this necropost...well...being one of those "project" (what's that what it's called?), I thought it wouldn't call for a Lock on the thread, if there's some sort of actual content in it.

I think we can still change a few things here and there.

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