Colonel M Posted November 9, 2009 Author Share Posted November 9, 2009 (edited) If we are putting that much emphasis on the lategame staves and denying a Sacred Twin to Kyle (which I disagree with, but I won't bicker with it), then alright. At least CATS pointed out the stuff that mattered, though the competent fighter statement is slightly dependant on what we speak of (do recall that he can miss on ORKOes and Kyle theoretically has a good chance to crit them in one of two hits). Edited November 9, 2009 by Colonel M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Lances have a WT advantage vs two types while Swords have a WT advantage against only one Wait....Am I reading this wrong or am I missing something? I'm pretty sure Lances only have WTA against Swords. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 (edited) I think he means that you're better off using Lances than Swords against both Lances and Swords, whereas Swords are only better against Axes, albeit by a larger gap. Which is still pretty sketchy logic. >_> Edited November 9, 2009 by Paperblade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CATS Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Yeah, that's what I meant. And how is it sketchy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Yeah, that's what I meant. And how is it sketchy? I wouldn't say the logic is sketchy, but your wording is. It's true that you'd likely choose Lances over Swords vs an enemy wielding one of those two and Swords against only Axes with the exception of specific conditions (Like one enemy with a Sword and 5 others in the area with an Axe), but that's not WTA, that's just a result of the WT effects on weapons. Besides, if Kyle goes GK (That's what's assumed, right?) he's using Axes more than either of the other two anyway, isn't he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CATS Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Indeed. I was just too lazy to think of any other way to put it, I suppose. As for Kyle using Axes more often than either Swords or Lances, that's perfectly true, but his Axe rank starts so much lower (D vs A) that he'll still S Lances if anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted November 9, 2009 Author Share Posted November 9, 2009 (edited) Yes, but also remember that WEXP isn't that difficult. If he doubles certain enemies with the Steel Axe he's only needing 10 for C, 13 for B, 15 for A, and 18 for S. I guess in reality that getting to S is probably impossible without maining it completely (that's about 56 rounds in combat), but I guess it also helps that killing blows give double the WEXP obtained. Of course this is assuming when a character doubles he gets 4 WEXP from a Steel Axe, but SF doesn't really specify if that's true or not... EDIT: I did at first question CATS wording of the statement, but I kind of got the point after a while. Though, at first, I thought he meant class-wise (Mercenaries and Myrmidions in comparison to Fighters, though that would be untrue because Great Knights, Warriors, and Heroes use Axes). EDIT: If you can find an instance where you'd miss with it on the enemy and don't have much better to do, Devil Axe swing is 8 WEXP which is more than 2 hits w/Steel and equal to two Steel shots killing. Edited November 9, 2009 by Colonel M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CATS Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 The Devil Axe certainly isn't safe for general use thanks to the chance of Kyle just critkilling himself like an idiot. The only enemies which the Devil Axe would consistently miss against would also be enemies that you want to actually be hurting and taking down quickly, such as Heroes and SMs. Besides, if just blatantly wasting your turn isn't bad enough, Kyle is also missing out on CEXP when he wastes turns whiffing with the Devil Axe, and he'll end up on a lower level than everyone else if it's done too often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted November 10, 2009 Author Share Posted November 10, 2009 (edited) It'd be done like not even 3 times. It's not like I'm saying every other round of combat he'd use the Devil Axe. That's just plain stupid. The "so-called" critchance at killing himself is being lowered with WTD and the supports backing off. Edited November 10, 2009 by Colonel M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 That's just plain stupid. The "so-called" critchance at killing himself is being lowered with WTD How does WTD affect the 31-luck formula? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 That's just plain stupid. The "so-called" critchance at killing himself is being lowered with WTD How does WTD affect the 31-luck formula? Lowering Hit via WTD effectively lowers crit, so there's a smaller chance he'll proc a crit that will kill himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Oh, I thought he meant an enemy HITTING Kyle getting the WTD, not Kyle himself having it. How many swords actually exist by now anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted November 10, 2009 Author Share Posted November 10, 2009 Oh, I thought he meant an enemy HITTING Kyle getting the WTD, not Kyle himself having it. How many swords actually exist by now anyway? Dude, just go look at CATS enemy stats. >_>; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naglfar Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 You haven't played enough FE7-8 then. 14 AS basically doubles anything that's not merc/myrmidon/promoted/boss, which makes up a vast majority of the enemies in the game. I would argue that the offensive lead that most other characters have over Duessel (via doubling various enemies), means more than Duessel''s largely superfluous durability lead. At a certain point, durability begins not to matter when you're comparing 4.4% chance death to 2.1% chance death, it's a very small difference at this point. I would take somone like Kyle or Ephraim being able to double more enemies over more durability, since Kyle and Ephraim's chances of dying are both very minimal. You also said 14 AS doubles basically everything- Duessel has 12 base AS, so by your logic he'll still have trouble doubling enemies that aren't mercs/myrms/bosses. If that bothers you, you could use a speedwing. Who are you saving it for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 gilliam ross dozla kyle forde garcia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted November 11, 2009 Author Share Posted November 11, 2009 Yeah guys, let's use the Speedwing on Gilliam Bojangles. YEAHHHH!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Cynthia- Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 If a Speedwing gets Gilliam into at least doubling some enemies(and it does post-promotion) it's a pretty good investment overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted November 12, 2009 Author Share Posted November 12, 2009 If a Speedwing gets Gilliam into at least doubling some enemies(and it does post-promotion) it's a pretty good investment overall. Cynthia, I'd sooner give the Speedwing to Garcia before I give it to Gilliam. Fucking. Garcia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Cynthia- Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Garcia is a good choice for a Speedwing as well, point being that we can't just hand it to Duessel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted November 12, 2009 Author Share Posted November 12, 2009 It's more regarding to Gilliam would likely be the bottom of that chain with Duessel in tow. Still, many people could use that Speedwing as opposed to the lack of copetition w/Garm, which is the REAL argument you should use w/Duessel. (Or Brave weapons for that matter). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewjeo Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 (edited) I'd like to bring up Saleh up yet again. First off, the person right above him is Forde. Now, I'll say Forde is level 13 (2 levels per chapter. I don't think he's higher). In his joining chapter: Forde 13/0 Steel Lance/Javelin HP: 29.95 DEF: 9.4 RES: 3.75 ATK: 19.8/15.8 HIT: 98/93 CRIT: 5 CEV: 9.45 AVO: 23/27 AS: 7/9 Saleh Base Elfire/Lightning HP: 30 DEF: 8 RES: 13 ATK: 26/20 HIT: 126/136 CRIT: 9/14 CEV: 11 AVO: 35/39 AS: 12/14 Plus Saleh has C Staves. He's crushing Forde, now. Even if Forde takes an Iron Lance, Elfire!Saleh still has better AS, as well as 9 ATK plus the DEF/RES gap. Not to mention the 30 HIT gap. Iron would drop that, but still. Oh, and Saleh has a crit lead. The only way Forde could hope to win would be with a Killer Lance, but we've had that for three and a half chapters already, so it may not have many uses left. And Saleh still has 1-2 range. If Forde wants that, he has to take the javelin. Elfire!Saleh has 3 AS, 29 HIT, 4 CRIT, and 10 ATK on him. Lightning!Saleh has 5 AS, 9 CRIT, 39 HIT, and 4 ATK. Defensively, it's 12 AVO, 1.55 CEV, and 9 RES vs. 1.4 DEF. Oh, and Saleh has 1-2 Range. And before you shout "But where are the supports?" it takes 44 turns (or 13 turns a chapter by this point) for a B with Kyle. For Franz, it's 14 turns for C (6 per chapter), and 47 for B (19 per chapter) so at best he has C Kyle/C Franz. This adds up to a whopping 1 ATK, 10 HIT, 4 AVO, 7 CRIT, 7 CEV. So now he sometimes wins CRIT, wins CEV (And how many enemies have 24 SKL?), loses ATK by a little less, only loses hit by 20-30 instead of 30-40. Oh, and he loses avoid by a little less. I don't have time to do more right now, but I don't see how there's a full tier gap between them. Edit: Oh, and if he doesn't have a support with Franz yet (very possible, and I'd say probable) then his support bonuses add up to 5 HIT, 5 AVO, 2 CRIT, and 2 CEV. For chapter 11, he probably only has C Kyle, and then gets C Franz for chapter 12. Chapter 14 is when he'd hit B Kyle, and B Franz and A Kyle (maybe, it's still 9 turns per chapter. He'd probably get this for chapter 19) for chapter 18. Saleh is Gerik's second fastest support (and the fastest is Tethys, and dancer supports are pretty shaky) and is Myrrh's fastest support as well. Edited November 21, 2009 by Slize Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.