Getting a Tier List on this bad boy

[-Cynthia-]

What? I never said Duessel's spd was good. wtf are you talking about?

I'll quote Vykan here

I made a detailed listing of the ratio of enemies Duessel either doubled or realistically OHKOed to total enemies, give or take some reinforcements, just to show how much he doubles.

Chapter 10: 25/28 (89%)

Chapter 11: 26/32 (81%)

Chapter 12: 39/48 (81%)

Chapter 13: 41/54 (76%) [94% if Duessel has 13 spd]

Chapter 14: 36/42 (86%)

Chapter 15: 53/69 (77%) [81% if Duessel has 13 spd]

Let's assume by now that Duessel's gotten 3 levels (a mere 0.5 per chapter) and thus has a 90% chance at 13 spd.

Chapter 16: 25/35 (71%)

Chapter 17: 35/60 (58%)

Chapter 18: 37/42 (88%)

Chapter 19: 10/30 (30%) [66% if we exclude Heroes and Swordmasters since few people have 20-22 AS]

4 Chapters of almost entirely promoted enemies could probably get Duessel 3 levels (1.33 per chapter), which gives him an 81% chance at 14 spd.

Chapter 20: 37/50 (74%)

Final: 35/59 (59%)

Recall that this is just doubling/OHKO percentages, and doesn't translate directly into ORKO percentages. For instance, suppose Duessel has 50 crit on average. We can then suppose he crits about half the enemies he cannot ORKO normally. Now look at what that does to his percentages:

89-> 94%

81-> 90%

86-> 93%

76-> 88%

58 -> 79%

Just through using killer axes on stuff he cannot double/OHKO, Duessel can ORKO more than 4/5 of enemies in a map on average, which is valid even considering that killer weapons are only buyable in chapter 14. There's also some consideration for brave weapons (brave axe acquired in chp 17), reavers (buyable in chp 19) and S rank weapons, particularly the Garm (acquired in 14A/15B). Even simply sharing some of those resources, his killing %ages can easily jumpt to say, 85%, or 17 of every 20 enemy if you like fractions.

Although this further compounds the wtf of Gilliam's position, since he reaches similar speeds to Duessel.

[Vykan12]

Also Gilliam in Low does seem a bit off. If Duessel's 12 AS at --/8 is acceptable enough to put him above Eph. route Ephraim, Gilliam's AS should suffice most of the time as well, General Gilliam reaches 12 AS at 20/4.

The problem is Gilliam's nowhere near 20/4 when Duessel joins, and by the time he does hit that level, it'll be lategame where you need 13-14 (more if you like doubling promoted stuff consistently).

[-Cynthia-]

The problem is Gilliam's nowhere near 20/4 when Duessel joins, and by the time he does hit that level, it'll be lategame where you need 13-14 (more if you like doubling promoted stuff consistently).

But Gilliam will be closing the level gap quite rapidly, obviously due to gaining a lot more EXP than Duessel does, it's fairly reasonable to say that they should be at the same AS (unless you're saying Gilliam is only 20/4 by lategame, which seems low to me).

Edited July 12, 2009 by -Cynthia-

[Progenitus]

I'll quote Vykan here

oh. Colonel was talking to you.

Still, there's far too big a gap between Gilliam and Duessel, even for Eph route. True, Duessel is better, but for Duessel to be in Top and Gilliam to be in low? Gilliam would have to be like the worst unit earlygame for that to be possible.

Edited July 12, 2009 by smash fanatic

[Colonel M]

Sorry smash, the Duessel thing I was talking to Cynthia.

I think, otherwise, if Duessel is doing pretty good with low AS, Garcia can't be that bad. I understand Garcia should be treated like FE7 Dorcas with better WTC (actually overall better weapon selection).

[Progenitus]

Part of the reason why eph route Duessel is so high is because he has good durability. Garcia doesn't. 20/20 Garcia won't even reach Duessel's base def, and because he's so slow with mediocre lck, his avoid isn't very good even with supports.

In addition, Garcia is easily losing spd before he promotes, which knocks off most of chapters 10-15 which is where Duessel really shines.

[Colonel M]

I was talking about Eirika Garcia and Eirika Duessel. Never did I mention Ephy Duessel, who I know is a hell of a lot better than Garcia due to durability existance.

[Progenitus]

If you're talking about Eirika route, Garcia is already above Duessel.

[Colonel M]

If you're talking about Eirika route, Garcia is already above Duessel.

I know that. I meant if anyone is questioning his doubling late-game wise.

Alright, let's move onto more serious issues, shall we?

- Neimi rising.

- Cormag > Colm. I'm getting the stats so this should be interpreted in a bit.

Until then let's just work on Neimi. I agree she should move up. Dunno if Mekkah is still organizing this parade (I think he is), but at least I have the first post just in case.

Edited July 12, 2009 by Colonel M

[CATS]

Okay, has anyone actually updated the tier list even once since Mekkah first posted it? I'm not going to read this whole topic but I skimmed every page and I don't see a single second posting of the tier list. Here it is, and some things I see about it.

EIRIKA ROUTE

-Seth-

Seth

This I find questionable. Seth, best unit, maybe, top tier, obviously, in his own "lol you all suck" tier? I dunno. For one, many of the early chapters where he's most ridiculous, he is required for; so I'm not sure if he should be getting points for those, since you're forced to field him (along with everyone else) on those chapters no matter who you plan on using later. Technically, the only way to judge the differences between units is to see the difference that is made when you use one unit instead of another, however, this is impossible to do during chapters where the units in question are always fielded regardless.

-Top-

Franz

Eirika

Moulder

Vanessa

Tethys

Vanessa relies strongly on her dual anima supports, and with Lute only in Upper Mid, I don't know about that. Whatever though.

Don't know about Eirika either, considering her promotion time. Any other unit (except Ephraim obviously) can be promoted whenever, and many promote before Eirika does, such as Colm or the magic users (especially the two healers). Might look at that more later.

-High-

Kyle

Forde

Colm

Saleh

Joshua

Gerik

Saleh seems too high in general. I also feel that Colm is being underrated by going under Forde/Kyle.

What's the reasons for Joshua > Gerik?

-Upper Mid-

Natasha

Lute

Artur

Ephraim

Lute and Natasha seem like they should be higher, otherwise, whatever.

-Lower Mid-

Garcia

Tana

Duessel

Cormag

Myrrh

Ross

Myrrh > Ross? How do you figure that?

-Low-

Innes

Gilliam

Rennac

Marisa

Gilliam is absolutely too low here. I also am not sure about Innes. Would he really rank beneath Duessel, if we're subscribing to smash's "no-enemy-phase-counter-isn't-that-bad" point of view?

-Bottom-

Neimi

Knoll

Dozla

L'Arachel

Syrene

Ewan

Amelia

Again, Neimi seems much lower than she deserves. Underneath Marisa? Seriously? Luckily it looks like this case is already being argued.

Will look at Eph Route later perhaps.

[Vykan12]

For one, many of the early chapters where he's most ridiculous, he is required for; so I'm not sure if he should be getting points for those, since you're forced to field him (along with everyone else) on those chapters no matter who you plan on using later.

Why? If we dont use Seth actively, he hides in a corner. Otherwise hes dominating. Theres a huge difference between the two.

Technically, the only way to judge the differences between units is to see the difference that is made when you use one unit instead of another, however, this is impossible to do during chapters where the units in question are always fielded regardless.

Wth? That would make FE4 impossible to tier since we can field everyone in play. Then we also get to ignore 1/3 of like every FE game in existence. Seems much more sensible to compare characters over the course of their entire availability than to make this arbitrary judging criterion.

Don't know about Eirika either, considering her promotion time.

Its not that much of a limiting factor considering the fact that your units only start to promote naturally around 13-15.

Saleh seems too high in general.

He comes for free ORKOing most enemies in sight and has staves to boot. Hes basically FE8s version of Pent, though with less durability and some AS issues.

What's the reasons for Joshua > Gerik?

Sounds like a typo to me. Availability maybe?

Myrrh > Ross? How do you figure that?

Being amazing for a short time > being a detriment early on and always having AS issues.

Gilliam is absolutely too low here.

Ionno, having low move and AS sucks in a game this easy. He also faces WTD for most of earlygame, so he can't even properly flex his high def there.

I also am not sure about Innes. Would he really rank beneath Duessel, if we're subscribing to smash's "no-enemy-phase-counter-isn't-that-bad" point of view?

Innes concrete durability is much worse than Duessels. 31 hp/10 def vs 41 hp/17 def is a huge difference, especially when enemies hover around 15-25ish atk until promoted enemies start showing up. Ill grant that he doubles more, but thats the only win hed ever pull on Duessel if he had 1 range.

Edited July 31, 2009 by Vykan12

[-Cynthia-]

I would argue that Gilliam should move up for earlygame utility.

Let's look at our team earlygame:

Seth

Franz

Eirika

Vanessa

Moulder

Artur

Lute

Neimi

Garcia

Ross

Colm

Seth is obviously very good, and Franz isn't far behind(Moulder is useful, but he's not a combat unit). Everyone else though, has pretty serious issues.

Eirika does all right very early on due to axes, but once lances come into play she's in a lot more danger. Her Str is low enough that she can't ORKO much, even when she doubles. Colm is similar, except his Str is even worse and doesn't have the Rapier.

Vanessa has a ton of issues with the axe flood earlygame and there are a fair amoun t of archers ORKOing or nearly ORKoing her. She's much weaker without supports, which she shouldn't have yet.

Artur and Lute are like 2HKOd by everything and only 2HKO back since they don't double early on. Neimi is also 2HKOd, but her offense is even worse, and Ross is similarly bad.

Garcia has hit issues and doesn't double either.

So Gilliam's like the second most durable guy on the team, which is pretty cool since our durability at this point in the game is pretty bad. Gilliam not doubling isn't much of an issue at this point, because almost everyone has doubling issues, save Seth,Eirika and Colm, and Gilliam often outdamages Colm anyway. He helps a lot in the hardest part of the game, basically.

Gilliam really isn't that horrible for the rest of the game. You can't really say much about his Mov post promotion, because he can have the same as people like Duessel, who's very highly rated.

Gilliam sort of benefits in a way from other people not having speed issues, it means access to a Speedwing is much easier(it was used for Garcia arguments, so why not Gilliam?)

So post-promotion, Speedwing!Gilliam has 13 AS. Let's say Gilliam is promoted by Scorched Sand(CATS enemy stats indicate 20/1 is avg for this level). He actualy doubles all the Wyverns, all the Pegs, several of the Iron Blade Mercs, all the Fighters, and all the Mages/Shamans/Cavs. When I total it up, he doubles 56 out of the chapter's 74 enemies, which is pretty good. I don't feel I really need to go over Gilliam's durability, suffice to say he can take a lot of hits. 43 HP/20 Def unsupported is pretty awesome, a little better than base level Duessel, whose durability you touted earlier.

His speed issues get even less as the game goes on, because more monsters show up (monsters are pretty slow) and he has possible Garm usage for +5 Spd.

Edited July 31, 2009 by -Cynthia-

[Vykan12]

Scorched sands just happens to have slow enemies. Look at how much he doubles in 16, 17 and especially 19 and you'll be horrified.

Still, seeing Eph Tana > Gilliam seems a bit strange considering her durability woes.

[Jaybee]

His speed issues get even less as the game goes on, because more monsters show up (monsters are pretty slow) and he has possible Garm usage for +5 Spd.

How the heck is Gilliam getting Garm when he's probably so damn close to getting an S in Lances?

[A2ZOMG]

Lute is waaaaaaaay too low.

Lute is among the best of the best in this game. Best offensive growths + beast supports with Artur and Vanessa make her pretty much unstoppable, and able to destroy everything more easily than anyone not named Seth basically (and then she's clearly pwning Seth lategame). Her stat shortcomings hardly matter at all. Her low con lowers her AS a fair bit with heavier tomes, but that doesn't matter when her atk is over 20 with Fire. Not forgetting that enemies are rather slow overall in this game. Her HP and defense are low, but her evade is very good with her high luck and full evade supports that build up pretty fast.

Edited July 31, 2009 by A2ZOMG

[Jaybee]

True. I also can't see why Natasha > Lute (Eir). Lute doesn't do anything in C4, but in C5 she's doing a lot better than Natasha since she can potshot while Natasha just heals even though Moulder does better. Lol 2 base Mag (Natasha). Then for quite some time more Lute ends up doubling and 2RKOing while Natasha heals. Brilliant way to get levels. And then Moulder outshines her while Lute has only Saleh for good competition as a Sage. And then she can go Mage Knight for +1 move.

[-Cynthia-]

How the heck is Gilliam getting Garm when he's probably so damn close to getting an S in Lances?

We would drop lances for axes for this very purpose.

I agree with Lute>Natasha. Staff utility is nice and all, but we already have Moulder, and using staves means that she doesn't get the EXP benefits of being underleveled that Lute does.

On the offensive side of things, Lute is holding pretty big offensive leads, about 5 pts of magic and anima being stronger than light over Natasha. They'll have about the same AS all in all, Natasha has more Con pre-promotion(like we care), but if Lute goes Mage Knight she'll win Con post promotion assuming Natasha goes Bishop. The only way Natasha really catches up is via Slayer, but it only works against monsters, which Lute generally doesn't have trouble ORKOing and is hitting for effective damage once S ranked weapons come into play regardless.

Defensivly, it's basically a tie, until we throw supports into mix. Lute has the best affinity in the game (anima) and has a nice animaxanima support with Vanessa, as well as a fast support with Artur and a useful Kyle support as well, Ross is a good option too if he's in play. Natasha has Ice, which isn't so great, and Seth/Franz don't really want her. Cormag comes late(especially on Eir route) and it's slow and lolKnoll which Lute has anyway. Joshua is OK I guess, though he has plenty of other options.

[Mekkah]

For one, many of the early chapters where he's most ridiculous, he is required for; so I'm not sure if he should be getting points for those

There's not much of a difference between if he were required or if you had as many unit slots as you had units, but he'd still get credit for the latter. Anyway, if this is your main reason to move Seth out of his own tier, I disagree...

Vanessa relies strongly on her dual anima supports, and with Lute only in Upper Mid, I don't know about that. Whatever though.

I've never been keen on Vanessa's supports, but her flier utility is hax.

Don't know about Eirika either, considering her promotion time. Any other unit (except Ephraim obviously) can be promoted whenever, and many promote before Eirika does, such as Colm or the magic users (especially the two healers). Might look at that more later.

She's also got most availability in the game though, but I think now she should be in the same tier as Gerik/Joshua/Colm actually.

I also feel that Colm is being underrated by going under Forde/Kyle.

I definitely feel both of these are better. Just quick comparing:

At Ch8/Ch9ish:

9/0 Kyle (C Forde)

Iron Lance: 18.0 atk, 8.6 AS - - 26.0 avo, 28.4 hp, 10.0 def, 1.8 res

(note that Kyle joins at L5, not at L6 as FEA says)

9/0 Colm

Steel Sword: 14.8 atk, 10.5 AS - - 32.2 avo, 23.2 hp, 4.8 def, 2.4 res

Kyle has the lead in like every single significant aspect but AS and a bit of avo (+8 avo if Colm uses iron, but then he also loses like 3 atk), paticulary hp/def are big leads. Compounded by Kyle's 1 mov lead and WTC, so he can face like 3-4 times as many enemies as Colm does during enemy phases. And he has the option of 1-2 range, too, so he's countering a lot more as well. I'd go as far as saying this outweighs Colm's EXP bonus and lets them grow equally fast.

15/0 Kyle (B Forde)

Iron Lance: 22.0 atk, 11.0 AS - - 35.0 avo, 33.5 hp, 12.5 def, 4.0 res

15/0 Colm

Steel Sword: 17.2 atk, 14.3 AS - - 42.5 avo, 27.8 hp, 6.2 def, 3.6 res

Pretty much the same deal as above...

cba to go into post promotion.

What's the reasons for Joshua > Gerik?

Eh, I'll switch them.

Lute and Natasha seem like they should be higher, otherwise, whatever.

Maybe. I don't feel Lute is very good.

Lute is among the best of the best in this game. Best offensive growths + beast supports with Artur and Vanessa make her pretty much unstoppable, and able to destroy everything more easily than anyone not named Seth basically (and then she's clearly pwning Seth lategame). Her stat shortcomings hardly matter at all. Her low con lowers her AS a fair bit with heavier tomes, but that doesn't matter when her atk is over 20 with Fire. Not forgetting that enemies are rather slow overall in this game. Her HP and defense are low, but her evade is very good with her high luck and full evade supports that build up pretty fast.

Man, you could compete with Inui with this amount of proof and numbers in your statements. Have you looked into her durability issues lately? Or maybe Artur's? Or how Vanessa likes to fly around and the support is a tad too slow to kick in in reasonable timeframes?

Edited July 31, 2009 by Mekkah

[Florete]

Something I never got is what makes L'Arachel Bottom tier. Healer on a horse says something right there. She comes underleveled, but she can use Torch in her joining chapter for some extra experience, and I believe we also have Physics at this point in the game, so her level issue isn't too bad. Then you've got this "I support both Lords" thing going, and if you can't agree with her getting both, I'd think she can easily get the one that isn't our route's main character. Joshua would like her since she's one of two options he has that gives crit (lol4 Ice partners), and if Innes is in play he might also take her for the Def boost.

Supports aside, there's no doubt she has pretty awesome growths, she just has to use them. Once she promotes (Dunno which path she should go, I'd guess Mage Knight) she can also put her class experience bonus to good use. Seriously, how is she two tiers below the likes of Ross, much less worse than him? I could probably see her passing Myrrh, one of the selling points being that she's a nice fallback partner for our "other" lord. But healing in itself should most definitely be > Bottom tier.

[Jaybee]

Something I never got is what makes L'Arachel Bottom tier. Healer on a horse says something right there. She comes underleveled, but she can use Torch in her joining chapter for some extra experience, and I believe we also have Physics at this point in the game, so her level issue isn't too bad. Then you've got this "I support both Lords" thing going, and if you can't agree with her getting both, I'd think she can easily get the one that isn't our route's main character. Joshua would like her since she's one of two options he has that gives crit (lol4 Ice partners), and if Innes is in play he might also take her for the Def boost.

Supports aside, there's no doubt she has pretty awesome growths, she just has to use them. Once she promotes (Dunno which path she should go, I'd guess Mage Knight) she can also put her class experience bonus to good use. Seriously, how is she two tiers below the likes of Ross, much less worse than him? I could probably see her passing Myrrh, one of the selling points being that she's a nice fallback partner for our "other" lord. But healing in itself should most definitely be > Bottom tier.

Well, I guess it's because she has a lol base level (3 at C11? Wtf?) and has no benefits of low level (quick leveling). And there's Moulder as a Bishop already, and maybe even Natasha. L'Arachel also never gets Slayer and there's her awesome C15. Whereas Ross has quick leveling and if he Hatchets everything, he gets levels quickly (Pirate is plausible by C7 since C4 has tons of suck monsters) and has a great endgame while having Garm. I could see her > Myrrh, though.

[Florete]

Well, I guess it's because she has a lol base level (3 at C11? Wtf?) and has no benefits of low level (quick leveling). And there's Moulder as a Bishop already, and maybe even Natasha. L'Arachel also never gets Slayer and there's her awesome C15. Whereas Ross has quick leveling and if he Hatchets everything, he gets levels quickly (Pirate is plausible by C7 since C4 has tons of suck monsters) and has a great endgame while having Garm. I could see her > Myrrh, though.

Low level is why I mentioned Torch/Physic. And if we have Moulder/Natasha as Bishops, it's not that bad for her. If anything, she can heal and free our Bishop up to attack or something, or heal our Bishop if we only have one and s/he gets hurt.

I can't see never getting Slayer as a point against her.

Ross happens to suck for a while and has AS issues, like, all game. I can't see how a healer on a horse can really be considered "bad" in anyway, aka how is she Bottom tier?

[Scarlet]

I don't really understand why Lute isn't at least in High. What exactly makes her so bad?

Yes, she joins a little bit underleveled in Chapter 4 (or more, like, Chapter 5), and has durability issues. But, seriously, which unit not named Seth, Gilliam and maybe Franz does not have them at that point? Also, she's got innate 1-2-Range to avoid counters in the Player Phase, which more than makes up for her somewhat bad durability - and she's not even bad at that, dealing quite a lot of damage even before she starts to double stuff. Her greatest plus is her supports - she gets a full Avd boost from all her partners, and a full Def boost from everyone but lolRoss and roflKnoll; her supports with Artur and Kyle even are pretty fast, with +3 growth and everything, and they both say "YES YES YES" to her own anima affinity.

Now, let's look at her in Chapter... 12 or something, shall we?

Lute, Lv15, A Artur, B Kyle:

23.3 HP, 15.1 MAG, 10.2 SKL, 13.3 SPD, 14.3 LUK, 5.1 DEF, 10.6 RES, 3 CON

Fire: 22.6 Atk, 130.05 Hit, 5.1 Crt, 12.3 AS, 63.9 Avd, 10.1 Def, 15.6 Res

The suck of which is enemies has both low AS and low Hit, so she will double and thus ORKO pretty much everything, yet still hardly get hit, especially if you place her on any kind of Avd-boosting terrain. Since enemies like using steel by this point of the game, you're seeing enemy hit rates of about 100 from sword users (36 DHit -> 26.28% real), around 90 from bow users (26 DHit, 13.78% real), 85 from lance users (21 DHit -> 9.03% real), about 80 from axe users (16 DHit -> 5.28%), and magic is of no concern to her anyway. Or she could place herself on a forest tile or something similar and be pretty much immortal. And even if she gets hit, she can take two hits from most stuff (except axes, I guess, but lol axes) and still not die, while ORKOing everything that dares to attack her, even 2-range or 1-2-range guys, which the only other unit capable of that I can think of is Seth with a javelin. From this point in the game, she can usually even see frontline action without any danger, while not having been a detriment at any point beforehand. And she just gets even better.

Chapter 15-ish:

Lute, Lv20/1 (I'm assuming Sage here because Mage Knight caps suck, and it's not like that +1 MOV would make much of a difference):

28.6 HP, 19.1 MAG, 12.7 SKL, 15.5 SPD, 16.6 LUK, 8.8 DEF, 15.6 RES, 4 CON

Fire: 26.6 Atk, 136.2 Hit, 6.35 Crt, 15.5 AS, 72.6 Avd, 13.8 Def, 20.6 Res

Enemies have around 5 Hit more than before here, I guess. Still, Lute is, like, immortal against them, because her Avd has raised more than their Hit has.

Seriously, I don't see how one-rounding everything in sight regardless of range while being next to immortal starting at about Midgame, and still not being bad in earlygame especially considering everyone not named Seth is having their issues there, is only "Upper Mid".

[Florete]

Also, in my debate with Tino (Me with Lute, him Artur) I recall calling pretty good arguments for Lute to get a B with Vanessa in a reasonable amount of time (With A Artur of course). +10 avoid, +2 Def, and +2 atk goes a long way. That part of the debate got lost in the time warp, though...

Edited July 31, 2009 by Red Fox of Fire

[Mekkah]

I can move Lute up to high (between Gerik and Saleh seems fair for the Eirike one), though then I might as well merge that mid tier.

As for L'Arachel, when hyping "healer on a horse", let's not forget Troubadours have only 6 mov in this game (as much as thieves and bishops and such), and she doesn't even have the staff level to use anything amazing until she uses like two entire Mends iirc.

L'Arachel is probably more useful in large teams than small ones (small ones of like 6-7 people at most can reasonably promote around the time she joins), but even in large ones I don't think she's useful at all.

Edited July 31, 2009 by Mekkah

[Vykan12]

But, seriously, which unit not named Seth, Gilliam and maybe Franz does not have them at that point?

That works against her, actually. If we’re struggling a little in earlygame (at least relative to latter parts), adding her to the team adds to the injury. If she were a bad unit on a very strong team, however, we could work around her flaws more easily while maintaining efficiency.

It doesn’t help that her durabilty is among the worst on the team.

Base Lute: 17 hp/3 def/22 avo

Base Ross: 15 hp/3 def/14 avo

Base Garcia: 28 hp/5 def/17 avo

Ouch. Being comparable to base level Ross in chapter 4 is really bad, and he’ll probably be 10/1 by this point, meaning he’ll actually beat her. He’s currently in lower-mid, btw.

Now let’s look at Lute’s durability growths:

45 hp/15 def/135 avo

That’s awful, as she’ll only be fixing 1/3 of her durability issues any time soon, and the latter has more to do with supports than anything. Now consider this:

20/20 Lute: 37 hp, 12 def, 73 avo

Base Gerik: 32 hp, 10 def, 34 avo

10/1 Gerik: 36 hp, 12 def, 38 avo

There are melee units that beat Lute’s maximum concrete durability before even promoting.

Also, she's got innate 1-2-Range to avoid counters in the Player Phase, which more than makes up for her somewhat bad durability

It can’t really more than make up for her bad durability since it’s giving her good durability but with conditions. She cannot have an overactive enemy phase, which isn’t that good when enemy phase is arguably more important than player phase on efficient runs. She also needs frontline protection, which is causing some movement restriction on others. In the even she gets hit, she’ll probably need to be healed immediately, and the list goes on.

and she's not even bad at that, dealing quite a lot of damage even before she starts to double stuff.

She starts off with 11 Mt using fire (anything better and she’ll weigh herself down even further), which 3RKOes enemies with 23 hp/0 res. Granted she’ll be growing atk at a monstrous rate (fast leveling + 60% growth), but the best she can manage before doubling is 2HKOing. You were implying she started there.

Her greatest plus is her supports - she gets a full Avd boost from all her partners, and a full Def boost from everyone but lolRoss and roflKnoll; her supports with Artur and Kyle even are pretty fast, with +3 growth and everything, and they both say "YES YES YES" to her own anima affinity.

Indeed, but supports only help her when they occur. Let’s take her 2 fastest supports (Artur/Kyle): they take 15/35/62 for Artur and 19/39/65 for Kyle. Realistically, she’ll only start hitting C/B level somewhere around midgame, which leaves her with a lot of time to struggle defensively in between.

And it’s not like supports completely eliminate her problem, either. If she gets 2HKOed, supports merely reduce the chance of that happening, but it’s still there. Someone with –10 avo but who can take twice as many hits will always be safer to use against a moderate sized group of enemies.

Now, let's look at her in Chapter... 12 or something, shall we?

Lute, Lv15, A Artur, B Kyle:

Let me get this straight: Artur was adjacent to Lute for 62 turns in 8 chapters? That’s 8 turns / chapter, and some earlygame ones don’t even last that long.

The suck of which is enemies has both low AS and low Hit, so she will double and thus ORKO pretty much everything

You’re exaggerating low enemy AS a little. I distinctly recall pirates in chapter 11 Eph route with 9-10 AS, and mercs and myrms are even faster than that.

Or she could place herself on a forest tile or something similar and be pretty much immortal.

Those don’t exist on many maps. Castles would be the obvious example, though I guess they do have some fortress tiles. Still, we can’t keep Lute waiting on specific tiles to survive since that just wastes time. She’s also taking up defensive spaces that other units can use well (who the hell doesn’t want 20 avo and 2 def).

And even if she gets hit, she can take two hits from most stuff (except axes, I guess, but lol axes) and still not die, while ORKOing everything that dares to attack her, even 2-range or 1-2-range guys, which the only other unit capable of that I can think of is Seth with a javelin.

Going by your earlier hit numbers, 10% real manages a 1% death chance in 2 attacks, or 2.8% in 3. Reducing her support levels inflates that even higher.

Seriously, I don't see how one-rounding everything in sight regardless of range

You’re still exaggerating. There’s plenty 16 AS doesn’t double and she has to go even lower than that to increase damage output.