How do ROM sites manage to keep from being shut down?

[General Spoon]

This has been bugging me for awhile, and I can't imagine that they're flying under the radar.

Edited August 21, 2009 by Miror B.

[Pride]

How do torrents stay open?

Despite (some) effort, how is music and video piracy so widespread?

I don't know. It's a wild place, this internet.

[burning_phoneix]

Torrents are non-centralized unlike ROM sites.

[Pride]

Torrents are non-centralized unlike ROM sites.

D'oh.

[Superbus]

With Torrent sites, you have to attack the search engines, ie The Pirate Bay, or ISOHunt, which many people are trying to attack.

ROM sites... honestly, there's just not the push for it. Whereas the RIAA and MPAA have gone on their massive litigation and lobbying push, there hasn't been that kind of push by the ESA, at least not when it comes to ROMs (they've conducted actual police raids for things like pirated XBox systems, which I find very disconcerting).

I have several ideas as to why:

1) The big names are protected. At a lot of websites, if you try to get specific ROMs, you're told that those titles are specifically protected by the ESA (some sites even say ESRB still). These are usually big-name properties or big-name movie licenses; Mario, Sonic, Metroid, anything relating to Star Wars, some big movies (with shitty games, go figure), etc. You don't see that kind of protection for things like Onna Sansirou - Typhoon Gal or Power Blade; big devs don't care about those games anymore, and they're only enjoyed by Celice and I at this point, basically.

2) Most of the companies involved are Japanese, and they don't really like to upset the applecart like the big American companies (exception: Sony).

3) Since this is video game related, there's not as much lobbying power with politicians. This is because music and cinema are accepted pasttimes for Americans, but video games - you know, murder simulators? - still have a ways to go before they become accepted the way cinema is. Remember, even recently, there's been a call to force the ratings systems and regulate the industry.

4) Most ROM sites are based outside the USA. Whereas a ROM site would be shuttered quickly if it was hosted in the US, most of the ones I've seen are in Europe or elsewhere. The only way those sites are getting closed is if those countries start enforcing copyright, and most of them can't be arsed. The only way we'd force them is if our government started applying political pressure to them, like we did with Russia (allofmp3.com) and Sweden (thepiratebay.org). Basically, ROM trafficking would have to get so big that the government would have to pay attention - again, this would assume that lobbying efforts during a recession would be strong enough, something that I've broached - and that's just not going to happen with retro ROMs. The ESA already combats pirating of the newer systems, and that's really all anyone cares about at this point.

5) Retro games simply aren't profitable. The big names are somewhat profitable, but the Virtual Console is doing poorly, mainly due to the fact that emulators and ROMs have been available for a long, long time before that (with more options to boot), and most retro games are dumped onto compilations for $20-$30 a pop... and don't even sell that well at that price. To "make" them profitable, companies would have to go out and crack down on the ROM sites - again, not really possible at this point - and that's costly. The cost would not be made up in sales, so why bother? Most of the big name games have saturated the retro market as it is (see: Sega's entire collection), and the others just don't sell. It's a sunk cost.

... Miror B, you've given me a fantastic idea. I'm about to make you famous, kid.

[California Mountain Snake]

... Miror B, you've given me a fantastic idea. I'm about to make you famous, kid.

Speaking of stealing someone else's idea <3

[Superbus]

... Miror B, you've given me a fantastic idea. I'm about to make you famous, kid.

Speaking of stealing someone else's idea <3

NOT stealing! I'll be giving proper credit! In an article where I hope to speak to the PR reps at Sony, Nintendo and Konami in hopes of getting their opinions on a few things.

In short, doing that journalism shit.

[burning_phoneix]

... Miror B, you've given me a fantastic idea. I'm about to make you famous, kid.

Speaking of stealing someone else's idea <3

NOT stealing! I'll be giving proper credit! In an article where I hope to speak to the PR reps at Sony, Nintendo and Konami in hopes of getting their opinions on a few things.

In short, doing that journalism shit.

Will it have a lot of profanity?

[Superbus]

... Miror B, you've given me a fantastic idea. I'm about to make you famous, kid.

Speaking of stealing someone else's idea <3

NOT stealing! I'll be giving proper credit! In an article where I hope to speak to the PR reps at Sony, Nintendo and Konami in hopes of getting their opinions on a few things.

In short, doing that journalism shit.

Will it have a lot of profanity?

I'm not intending on any. I want this to be a 100% professional piece, if I'm going to break out the PR contacts.

[Jyosua]

... Miror B, you've given me a fantastic idea. I'm about to make you famous, kid.

Speaking of stealing someone else's idea <3

NOT stealing! I'll be giving proper credit! In an article where I hope to speak to the PR reps at Sony, Nintendo and Konami in hopes of getting their opinions on a few things.

In short, doing that journalism shit.

Will it have a lot of profanity?

I'm not intending on any. I want this to be a 100% professional piece, if I'm going to break out the PR contacts.

So, hows about them PR contacts? ;D *wink wink nudge nudge*

[Der Kommissar]

Bus already hit on it. There's also the "internet is Tattooine" effect. This is a hive of scum and villainy, shut down one site and another crops up soon enough.

[Superbus]

... Miror B, you've given me a fantastic idea. I'm about to make you famous, kid.

Speaking of stealing someone else's idea <3

NOT stealing! I'll be giving proper credit! In an article where I hope to speak to the PR reps at Sony, Nintendo and Konami in hopes of getting their opinions on a few things.

In short, doing that journalism shit.

Will it have a lot of profanity?

I'm not intending on any. I want this to be a 100% professional piece, if I'm going to break out the PR contacts.

So, hows about them PR contacts? ;D *wink wink nudge nudge*

You're the LAST person I'd give trusted PR contacts to!

I mean, shit, not everyone does their own PR. I can confirm that Nintendo outsources.

[Jyosua]

... Miror B, you've given me a fantastic idea. I'm about to make you famous, kid.

Speaking of stealing someone else's idea <3

NOT stealing! I'll be giving proper credit! In an article where I hope to speak to the PR reps at Sony, Nintendo and Konami in hopes of getting their opinions on a few things.

In short, doing that journalism shit.

Will it have a lot of profanity?

I'm not intending on any. I want this to be a 100% professional piece, if I'm going to break out the PR contacts.

So, hows about them PR contacts? ;D *wink wink nudge nudge*

You're the LAST person I'd give trusted PR contacts to!

I mean, shit, not everyone does their own PR. I can confirm that Nintendo outsources.

XD It was worth a try.

[Aurabolt]

It's already been said by Superbus (and very WELL SAID, at that) but until video games attain the same reputation as music and movies ROM sites will never go away. Websites like Emu Russia and DGEmu have (to my knowlege) been around for a LONG time and combined have every video game ever made up to the last Gen as well as the Emulators for them. EmuRussia is, as indicated based in RUSSIA. DGEmu, on the other hand is based in Latin America (it's my understanding only a few staff members know exactly where the servers are physically located to guard against hackers and the possibility of an "inside job", which shut down the site a few years ago).

One thing Superbus didn't mention (which surprised me) is the piece of legislation signed by President Clinton in 1995. It basically states if you already own the legit/retail copy of the game you illegally download, you're fine. Otherwise you must remove the ROM from your computer within 48 hours of downloading it. Of course, these days that "rule" can/is be ignored in regards to retro games (despite attempts by Nintendo, Sony and Sega to keep their massive libraries of games "current") and seeing as a number of high-profile games have been leaked over the internet...yeah XD

Anywho, for most websites the law is black & white (except where ROM hacking is concerned, in which case the hacked game is considered property of the person who "changed" it) though there are people like myself who insist there is a gray area. One of my arguements in support of ROM sites is for a lot of people who (unlike myself) have no real desire to support their favorite developers financially, they can at least still enjoy the product (even if the emulator is unstable, lol!). In regards to retro games, I see it as fair game. Nintendo waited 12 years too late to decide to renew the licensing on their SNES and N64 games, Sega needs to stop re-releasing the same 57 Genesis games every 6 months (only half of which are actually worth playing) and Sony is kidding itself if it thinks people will buy their games knowing Sony puts spyware on their Music and DVD CDs. Said spyware scans your hard drive for illegally downloaded media (which in fact may be IMPOSSIBLE to prove as being illegally downloaded in most cases) and sends that information to Sony (and their pack of rabid lawyers) via the internet without knowledge. Anyone who gets indicted from this can counter-sue for invasion of privacy so...yeah.

Getting back to the main subject, the secret to illegal business in GENERAL is demand. As long as the demand is there, ROM/Piracy Sites will never die. Torrents and P2P Clients are harder to both regulate and monitor simply because of how many people use it and how much data is exchanged per second. Sites are different though there are a few sites out there that not only stay "invisible" to radar but can only be accessed by invite. For every ROM/Pirate website shut down, 5 more open up.

[Phoenix Wright]

It's already been said by Superbus (and very WELL SAID, at that) but until video games attain the same reputation as music and movies ROM sites will never go away. Websites like Emu Russia and DGEmu have (to my knowlege) been around for a LONG time and combined have every video game ever made up to the last Gen as well as the Emulators for them. EmuRussia is, as indicated based in RUSSIA. DGEmu, on the other hand is based in Latin America (it's my understanding only a few staff members know exactly where the servers are physically located to guard against hackers and the possibility of an "inside job", which shut down the site a few years ago).

One thing Superbus didn't mention (which surprised me) is the piece of legislation signed by President Clinton in 1995. It basically states if you already own the legit/retail copy of the game you illegally download, you're fine. Otherwise you must remove the ROM from your computer within 48 hours of downloading it. Of course, these days that "rule" can/is be ignored in regards to retro games (despite attempts by Nintendo, Sony and Sega to keep their massive libraries of games "current") and seeing as a number of high-profile games have been leaked over the internet...yeah XD

Anywho, for most websites the law is black & white (except where ROM hacking is concerned, in which case the hacked game is considered property of the person who "changed" it) though there are people like myself who insist there is a gray area. One of my arguements in support of ROM sites is for a lot of people who (unlike myself) have no real desire to support their favorite developers financially, they can at least still enjoy the product (even if the emulator is unstable, lol!). In regards to retro games, I see it as fair game. Nintendo waited 12 years too late to decide to renew the licensing on their SNES and N64 games, Sega needs to stop re-releasing the same 57 Genesis games every 6 months (only half of which are actually worth playing) and Sony is kidding itself if it thinks people will buy their games knowing Sony puts spyware on their Music and DVD CDs. Said spyware scans your hard drive for illegally downloaded media (which in fact may be IMPOSSIBLE to prove as being illegally downloaded in most cases) and sends that information to Sony (and their pack of rabid lawyers) via the internet without knowledge. Anyone who gets indicted from this can counter-sue for invasion of privacy so...yeah.

Getting back to the main subject, the secret to illegal business in GENERAL is demand. As long as the demand is there, ROM/Piracy Sites will never die. Torrents and P2P Clients are harder to both regulate and monitor simply because of how many people use it and how much data is exchanged per second. Sites are different though there are a few sites out there that not only stay "invisible" to radar but can only be accessed by invite. For every ROM/Pirate website shut down, 5 more open up.

This and Superbus' quote are damn good answers. I was wondering why myself, but I never posted a topic about it (obviously). This really cleared things up. One of the ROM sites I went to actually told me the laws you said. XD

Edited August 31, 2009 by Old Snake

[Superbus]

One thing Superbus didn't mention (which surprised me) is the piece of legislation signed by President Clinton in 1995. It basically states if you already own the legit/retail copy of the game you illegally download, you're fine. Otherwise you must remove the ROM from your computer within 48 hours of downloading it. Of course, these days that "rule" can/is be ignored in regards to retro games (despite attempts by Nintendo, Sony and Sega to keep their massive libraries of games "current") and seeing as a number of high-profile games have been leaked over the internet...yeah XD

What legislation is this? What's the bill? I know a lot of ROM sites like to broadcast that as their cover for what is essentially illegal activity, but my understanding is that the caveat is that you have to have PERSONALLY made the copy of whatever it is that's been copied; ie, I would have to buy a ROM dumper and dumped my copy of Rygar, instead of downloading it.

[Celice]

I thought Dale (DMA) pointed out something along the lines of judges being able to negate that ruling, making it null if decided so :?

[Superbus]

I thought Dale (DMA) pointed out something along the lines of judges being able to negate that ruling, making it null if decided so :?

That's what I'm thinking. That whole "Clinton's Act" thing has been used as a convenient crutch for a long time, but it's also never been challenged, to my knowledge. And if it was challenged, I'm sure it'd fall, especially with a Supreme Court that is very pro-business nowadays.

[Jyosua]

It's already been said by Superbus (and very WELL SAID, at that) but until video games attain the same reputation as music and movies ROM sites will never go away. Websites like Emu Russia and DGEmu have (to my knowlege) been around for a LONG time and combined have every video game ever made up to the last Gen as well as the Emulators for them. EmuRussia is, as indicated based in RUSSIA. DGEmu, on the other hand is based in Latin America (it's my understanding only a few staff members know exactly where the servers are physically located to guard against hackers and the possibility of an "inside job", which shut down the site a few years ago).

One thing Superbus didn't mention (which surprised me) is the piece of legislation signed by President Clinton in 1995. It basically states if you already own the legit/retail copy of the game you illegally download, you're fine. Otherwise you must remove the ROM from your computer within 48 hours of downloading it. Of course, these days that "rule" can/is be ignored in regards to retro games (despite attempts by Nintendo, Sony and Sega to keep their massive libraries of games "current") and seeing as a number of high-profile games have been leaked over the internet...yeah XD

Anywho, for most websites the law is black & white (except where ROM hacking is concerned, in which case the hacked game is considered property of the person who "changed" it) though there are people like myself who insist there is a gray area. One of my arguements in support of ROM sites is for a lot of people who (unlike myself) have no real desire to support their favorite developers financially, they can at least still enjoy the product (even if the emulator is unstable, lol!). In regards to retro games, I see it as fair game. Nintendo waited 12 years too late to decide to renew the licensing on their SNES and N64 games, Sega needs to stop re-releasing the same 57 Genesis games every 6 months (only half of which are actually worth playing) and Sony is kidding itself if it thinks people will buy their games knowing Sony puts spyware on their Music and DVD CDs. Said spyware scans your hard drive for illegally downloaded media (which in fact may be IMPOSSIBLE to prove as being illegally downloaded in most cases) and sends that information to Sony (and their pack of rabid lawyers) via the internet without knowledge. Anyone who gets indicted from this can counter-sue for invasion of privacy so...yeah.

Getting back to the main subject, the secret to illegal business in GENERAL is demand. As long as the demand is there, ROM/Piracy Sites will never die. Torrents and P2P Clients are harder to both regulate and monitor simply because of how many people use it and how much data is exchanged per second. Sites are different though there are a few sites out there that not only stay "invisible" to radar but can only be accessed by invite. For every ROM/Pirate website shut down, 5 more open up.

This and Superbus' quote are damn good answers. I was wondering why myself, but I never posted a topic about it (obviously). This really cleared things up. One of the ROM sites I went to actually told me the laws you said. XD

you might want to take those ROM sites out of your post, you'll get modded. It IS against the rules.

@ Aurabolt

One issue I have with your argument in favor of ROMs, is that I see no reason you should have any right to enjoy something that you have no legal entitlement to, without paying. It was created to be enjoyed by those who pay for it, and the creators hold any rights as far as whether they are going to charge you for it or let you play it free. Granted, as you said, this is not your point of view, but I think that point of view is silly, regardless.

@ Old Snake

Dude, we're the moderators here, not you, and the names of the websites can stay. He's not telling people how to obtain ROMs, and he didn't even specify the domain names. The fact those are in his post are important to the overall point of his post, and are needed.

Also, it doesn't help to tell someone they should remove something from their post, when you QUOTE them to do it, because then even if they remove it, it's still in YOUR post.

[Phoenix Wright]

It's already been said by Superbus (and very WELL SAID, at that) but until video games attain the same reputation as music and movies ROM sites will never go away. Websites like Emu Russia and DGEmu have (to my knowlege) been around for a LONG time and combined have every video game ever made up to the last Gen as well as the Emulators for them. EmuRussia is, as indicated based in RUSSIA. DGEmu, on the other hand is based in Latin America (it's my understanding only a few staff members know exactly where the servers are physically located to guard against hackers and the possibility of an "inside job", which shut down the site a few years ago).

One thing Superbus didn't mention (which surprised me) is the piece of legislation signed by President Clinton in 1995. It basically states if you already own the legit/retail copy of the game you illegally download, you're fine. Otherwise you must remove the ROM from your computer within 48 hours of downloading it. Of course, these days that "rule" can/is be ignored in regards to retro games (despite attempts by Nintendo, Sony and Sega to keep their massive libraries of games "current") and seeing as a number of high-profile games have been leaked over the internet...yeah XD

Anywho, for most websites the law is black & white (except where ROM hacking is concerned, in which case the hacked game is considered property of the person who "changed" it) though there are people like myself who insist there is a gray area. One of my arguements in support of ROM sites is for a lot of people who (unlike myself) have no real desire to support their favorite developers financially, they can at least still enjoy the product (even if the emulator is unstable, lol!). In regards to retro games, I see it as fair game. Nintendo waited 12 years too late to decide to renew the licensing on their SNES and N64 games, Sega needs to stop re-releasing the same 57 Genesis games every 6 months (only half of which are actually worth playing) and Sony is kidding itself if it thinks people will buy their games knowing Sony puts spyware on their Music and DVD CDs. Said spyware scans your hard drive for illegally downloaded media (which in fact may be IMPOSSIBLE to prove as being illegally downloaded in most cases) and sends that information to Sony (and their pack of rabid lawyers) via the internet without knowledge. Anyone who gets indicted from this can counter-sue for invasion of privacy so...yeah.

Getting back to the main subject, the secret to illegal business in GENERAL is demand. As long as the demand is there, ROM/Piracy Sites will never die. Torrents and P2P Clients are harder to both regulate and monitor simply because of how many people use it and how much data is exchanged per second. Sites are different though there are a few sites out there that not only stay "invisible" to radar but can only be accessed by invite. For every ROM/Pirate website shut down, 5 more open up.

This and Superbus' quote are damn good answers. I was wondering why myself, but I never posted a topic about it (obviously). This really cleared things up. One of the ROM sites I went to actually told me the laws you said. XD

you might want to take those ROM sites out of your post, you'll get modded. It IS against the rules.

@ Aurabolt

One issue I have with your argument in favor of ROMs, is that I see no reason you should have any right to enjoy something that you have no legal entitlement to, without paying. It was created to be enjoyed by those who pay for it, and the creators hold any rights as far as whether they are going to charge you for it or let you play it free. Granted, as you said, this is not your point of view, but I think that point of view is silly, regardless.

@ Old Snake

Dude, we're the moderators here, not you, and the names of the websites can stay. He's not telling people how to obtain ROMs, and he didn't even specify the domain names. The fact those are in his post are important to the overall point of his post, and are needed.

Also, it doesn't help to tell someone they should remove something from their post, when you QUOTE them to do it, because then even if they remove it, it's still in YOUR post.

Alright, sorry.

[Aurabolt]

@ Aurabolt

One issue I have with your argument in favor of ROMs, is that I see no reason you should have any right to enjoy something that you have no legal entitlement to, without paying. It was created to be enjoyed by those who pay for it, and the creators hold any rights as far as whether they are going to charge you for it or let you play it free. Granted, as you said, this is not your point of view, but I think that point of view is silly, regardless.

You're right, but like I said before: as long as the demand for it's there, ROM sites will never die. Even if the whole of congress backed Video Game companies you wouldn't see all the sites just vanish. If a person can enter "Free Credit Card Numbers" into Google and have 3 of the first 10 sites be identity theft sites...you get the idea.

Of course, I get the point of what you're saying. I'm a writer and if I had my stories in stores, I'd be pissed if I found out people were sharing my work over the internet free of charge.

What I don't agree with is Video Game news sites like 1-Up, IGN and Gamespot (whose very staff are guilty of piracy themselves) talking about ROMs like it's a major threat to the video game industry. It's been proven 70% of pirated games are from older sistems, the DS or the PSP. Gamepro's imfamous article on hacked PSPs a few years ago brought to the world's attention what's common knowledge already to gamers. I'm talking about Magic Stick and Pandora's Battery (partially made obsolete thanks to the recently released Action Replay PSP), both of which are required to mod the PSP's ISO to run ROMs. The PSP Slim was supposed to take care of the issue but since it's the same ISO, now they're rolling out the PSP Go.

The majority of ROM users like myself DO legally buy the majority of our games. Me personally, 95% of my games I legally bought in a store and I already own a physical copy of 80% of my ROMs. Of those ROMs, they're for systems that aren't getting new games (with the exception of the DS). Like I said before--Nintendo waited too long to re-release their old-school games and they're kidding themselves if they think the Virtual Console will put a serious dent in the VG Piracy industry.

[Superbus]

I'll be completely honest here: I do use ROMs. Shamelessly. You know why? Becuase my game case is *FUCKING LOADED* with retro games. Games I've been collecting for almost 30 years. Games that are older than me in some cases. I have PONG for Christ's sake! Not an emulation of Pong, or a rerelease, *THE ORIGINAL FUCKING PONG*. I earned my retro merit badge a LONG time ago, so having a copy of Little Nemo: The Game Master on my PC - a game that was virtually forgotten in 1990, forget about 2009 - is hurting no one. Despite all that, I still purchase Virtual Console or retro games that I feel deserve it. Yes Nintendo, I will gladly purchase every Super Mario game on the Virtual Console despite the fact that I've been able to emulate it for well over ten years now. I will ignore the lack of niceties to be able to play it on my 44" TV aga-- what, I can't play it with component cables because you're too lazy to downscale it to modern TVs? No, Nintendo! Bad! Bad! Don't make me roll this newspaper up...

Now, Aurabolt, I need you to consider something: I say that here, knowing that I can no longer link this thread in my coming article because I said it. "That's stupid, why is that?", you might ask. It's the same reason those people you mention at IGN and Gamespot say what they say: PR mandates it. I cannot mention ROMs on the site I write for. I can't mention I play them, I cannot even say anything positive about them, other than to acknowledge they exist, and it took a hell of a fight for me to be able to say that the Virtual Console was fighting a potentially losing battle against emulators way back in 2006. Why was this the case? Because if someone on our site says that ROMs are anything more than the devil, they'll lose support from a lot of major publishers. Nintendo, Sony, Sega, possibly Microsoft who doesn't even HAVE a retro game, etc. - kiss 'em goodbye. PR is a constant tug of war between the companies that give product to review on time in a timely manner - our reviews that go up on day of release always do better than those that are released even days later - as well as access to press events and the like, and the companies that cover them. We're not as beholden to these companies as the bigger sites - who are competing with each other - are, but knowing we could lose Nintendo forever because of something as simple as ROMs is a bit hard to swallow for our editors (especially an editor that's as anti-emulation as they come).

So for IGN and Gamespot, it's the same as it is for me: anything that can be seen as remotely pro-emulation is either edited, or taken out completely. For the bigger sites, the editors are also pushed by marketing to even turn it around and make it anti-emulation, turning the words of the original writer into something they didn't even write! It happens, it happens more than most want to admit, and I would consider that side of it - especially with Nintendo, the only company that has tried to do something legitimate about any and all ROMs and ROM sites, and would drop us in a minute if we published something that went against their wishes - before criticizing the individual writers.

EDIT: And one more thing: Aurabolt:

Don't fool yourself into thinking that the majority of people that emulate - or pirate modern games, since it's the same feather - actually buy what they pirate/emulate. Anyone can say things like that on the internet because no one can fact-check them, but the actual numbers are much, much lower than the copout that many people use to justify what is inherently an illegal action. Long story short: most of the people that say that are full of shit and lying out their teeth.

For a modern example, check out some news articles about Stardock's Demigod.

Edited September 6, 2009 by Superbus

[Jyosua]

I'll be completely honest here: I do use ROMs. Shamelessly. You know why? Becuase my game case is *FUCKING LOADED* with retro games. Games I've been collecting for almost 30 years. Games that are older than me in some cases. I have PONG for Christ's sake! Not an emulation of Pong, or a rerelease, *THE ORIGINAL FUCKING PONG*. I earned my retro merit badge a LONG time ago, so having a copy of Little Nemo: The Game Master on my PC - a game that was virtually forgotten in 1990, forget about 2009 - is hurting no one. Despite all that, I still purchase Virtual Console or retro games that I feel deserve it. Yes Nintendo, I will gladly purchase every Super Mario game on the Virtual Console despite the fact that I've been able to emulate it for well over ten years now. I will ignore the lack of niceties to be able to play it on my 44" TV aga-- what, I can't play it with component cables because you're too lazy to downscale it to modern TVs? No, Nintendo! Bad! Bad! Don't make me roll this newspaper up...

Now, Aurabolt, I need you to consider something: I say that here, knowing that I can no longer link this thread in my coming article because I said it. "That's stupid, why is that?", you might ask. It's the same reason those people you mention at IGN and Gamespot say what they say: PR mandates it. I cannot mention ROMs on the site I write for. I can't mention I play them, I cannot even say anything positive about them, other than to acknowledge they exist, and it took a hell of a fight for me to be able to say that the Virtual Console was fighting a potentially losing battle against emulators way back in 2006. Why was this the case? Because if someone on our site says that ROMs are anything more than the devil, they'll lose support from a lot of major publishers. Nintendo, Sony, Sega, possibly Microsoft who doesn't even HAVE a retro game, etc. - kiss 'em goodbye. PR is a constant tug of war between the companies that give product to review on time in a timely manner - our reviews that go up on day of release always do better than those that are released even days later - as well as access to press events and the like, and the companies that cover them. We're not as beholden to these companies as the bigger sites - who are competing with each other - are, but knowing we could lose Nintendo forever because of something as simple as ROMs is a bit hard to swallow for our editors (especially an editor that's as anti-emulation as they come).

So for IGN and Gamespot, it's the same as it is for me: anything that can be seen as remotely pro-emulation is either edited, or taken out completely. For the bigger sites, the editors are also pushed by marketing to even turn it around and make it anti-emulation, turning the words of the original writer into something they didn't even write! It happens, it happens more than most want to admit, and I would consider that side of it - especially with Nintendo, the only company that has tried to do something legitimate about any and all ROMs and ROM sites, and would drop us in a minute if we published something that went against their wishes - before criticizing the individual writers.

EDIT: And one more thing: Aurabolt:

Don't fool yourself into thinking that the majority of people that emulate - or pirate modern games, since it's the same feather - actually buy what they pirate/emulate. Anyone can say things like that on the internet because no one can fact-check them, but the actual numbers are much, much lower than the copout that many people use to justify what is inherently an illegal action. Long story short: most of the people that say that are full of shit and lying out their teeth.

For a modern example, check out some news articles about Stardock's Demigod.

I've said this before, and I'll say this again: Little Nemo was one badass game, except for that fucking last level. (I actually have the hard copy of this game. It was a childhood favorite of mine)

And yeah, I used to use ROMs too. I say used to, because it's been several years since I touched one, excluding the one time Chris here had be emulate Ace Combat Advance (Shitty game by the way, don't buy it). The funny thing is, another reason ROMs are so popular, is because they take up so little space on your hard drive, in comparison to the space the physical games take up in your living room. You can literally download the entire library of every officially licensed SNES game ever made in Japan (I say Japan, because some games didn't make it over), and it will only take about 1.5 gigs. I'm not shitting you. Your PC can become the ultimate in retro gaming devices, without even sacrificing the tiniest of physical space or even virtual space for that matter!

I won't deny that I've pirated a good number of games and software. As far as games go, for me, it really is a try before you buy experience. I've only pirated CoD4, Oblivion, Starcraft, and a few other titles. I bought CoD4, Starcraft I bought Battle Chest, Oblivion I ended up not buying because while it was a good game, it was too time consuming, and I know I'd never finish it, so I uninstalled and that was the end of that. As far as software goes, I generally only pirate insanely expensive software that I intend to buy once I'm out of college.

[Aurabolt]

Now, Aurabolt, I need you to consider something: I say that here, knowing that I can no longer link this thread in my coming article because I said it. "That's stupid, why is that?", you might ask. It's the same reason those people you mention at IGN and Gamespot say what they say: PR mandates it. I cannot mention ROMs on the site I write for. I can't mention I play them, I cannot even say anything positive about them, other than to acknowledge they exist, and it took a hell of a fight for me to be able to say that the Virtual Console was fighting a potentially losing battle against emulators way back in 2006. Why was this the case? Because if someone on our site says that ROMs are anything more than the devil, they'll lose support from a lot of major publishers. Nintendo, Sony, Sega, possibly Microsoft who doesn't even HAVE a retro game, etc. - kiss 'em goodbye. PR is a constant tug of war between the companies that give product to review on time in a timely manner - our reviews that go up on day of release always do better than those that are released even days later - as well as access to press events and the like, and the companies that cover them. We're not as beholden to these companies as the bigger sites - who are competing with each other - are, but knowing we could lose Nintendo forever because of something as simple as ROMs is a bit hard to swallow for our editors (especially an editor that's as anti-emulation as they come).

So for IGN and Gamespot, it's the same as it is for me: anything that can be seen as remotely pro-emulation is either edited, or taken out completely. For the bigger sites, the editors are also pushed by marketing to even turn it around and make it anti-emulation, turning the words of the original writer into something they didn't even write! It happens, it happens more than most want to admit, and I would consider that side of it - especially with Nintendo, the only company that has tried to do something legitimate about any and all ROMs and ROM sites, and would drop us in a minute if we published something that went against their wishes - before criticizing the individual writers.

And one more thing: Aurabolt:

Don't fool yourself into thinking that the majority of people that emulate - or pirate modern games, since it's the same feather - actually buy what they pirate/emulate. Anyone can say things like that on the internet because no one can fact-check them, but the actual numbers are much, much lower than the copout that many people use to justify what is inherently an illegal action. Long story short: most of the people that say that are full of shit and lying out their teeth.

For a modern example, check out some news articles about Stardock's Demigod.

Oh, I'm well aware of this. Anything posted on a news site of any kind is subject to editing as the mods of said site see fit. Anything I post on two non-gaming news sites I like I always post a copy of on my Facebook, Live Journal and Xanga pages. It's all about making sure their business stays credible to their supporters, business partners, etc. I recongize and appreciate your input knowing you're taking a risk saying what you said even here. In a past job, I had to be mindful of what I said because even if what I said was my thoughts, if word got out the guy saying it worked for said company, it would be BAD PR.

In the eyes of most sites, my site's forums are considered a possible breeding ground for illegal activity because of my policies concerning pirated/commercial media. I don't outright allow the sharing of files on the site itself but use my site as the go-between for storage sites like Megaupload and Rapidshare. The way I see it, when these companies do something about these File Storage, Torrent and PSP providing sites, then they can look at going after individuals. Napster was THE site for pirated music during the mid-90s as I'm sure most of you already know. When the creator and owner got hit with a series of multi-million dollar lawsuits (which resulted in the creation of the RIAA), his only way out was to follow the lead of Apple's then new and first-ever online music store. Of course, only a small fraction of Napster's users stuck around when it became a paid service.

Getting back on-topic, I suspect you may be right. I admit I got my information from Gamefaqs, which more often than not is almost impossible to authenticate without raising suspicion or being investigated for your line of questioning. Considering Gamefaqs gives members who work for VG companies the option of hiding their employer status from the general public...you get the idea. I do know for a fact that regardless of the number, people who use ROMs/Emulators also buy the physical games.

And Jyosua:

I have the entire JPN SNES libarary on my 1GB Flash Drive (took me a few weeks to make sure I had 'em all, it did). Beat That!

I kept all the files in the RAR or ZIP containers as I got 'em and compressed them further. When I was done I had 50MB left, which was plenty to put ZSNES in. Made me popular last semester XD

[Mike palumbo]

It's true that romsites will never die cause I use them since 2010 and like I stop buying cartridges nintendo has been going after them now but now your replys are right for the demand is there romsites will never die! I can't beileave so many romsites keep piping out of nowhere it's amazing..?