FE9 Tier list v3

[PKL]

@ Horakthi- You're pretty disrespectul. Calling drafters liars. (and you insinuated I am one too) IDK what Hawk King's strat for Soren in Ch8 is, that's not what drafts do, but Soren is still the most solid sieger in drafts because he actually hits the benchmark mag for sieging unlike the other shit siegers. (though Tormod can get close unlike Ilyana due to fast Reyson and Sothe supports)

[General Banzai]

There isn't any demand for anyone outside of the units in top outside of the earlygame yet we can't just ignore decent units because better units exist, otherwise we'd have "Usable Tier" and the "Not usable tier" which is incredibly dull.

dull, yes

accurate to the played experience of this game, yes

guess what? this fucking game is dull

Edited October 21, 2013 by General Banzai

[Hawk King]

This game doesn't really have any unusable units. As bad as the bottom tier is they can all be used. Plus, Bexp helps to make everyone even more usable.

I feel that Mounts are extremely over-rated. They deserve their placement on this list but people over-hype the "Mount rush" mentality.

[Zkirsche]

dull, yes

accurate to the played experience of this game, yes

guess what? this fucking game is dull

We're all entitled to an opinion, unless you're wrong (which you are) :)

The chapters that are harder to paladin rush for whatever reason (C20, C21, C22, C23, C25 come to mind) are the ones where siege toming is primarily useful. Nephenee is a pretty good foot unit with some BEXP but there are really only a few times this comes in handy unfortunately.

I don't deny that siege toming is primarily useful, but with the exception of Calill the investment you have to make to get a siege tomer is pretty heavy and much less that the investment you put into neph to get another Boyd. Boyd/Ike's Earlygame is good but I'm not convinced it's two tiers worth and I definitely feel there's a tier difference between the myrms and Neph.

I can accept mages > Neph, because they DO save turns, but Neph should still be UM IMO.

[General Banzai]

I feel that Mounts are extremely over-rated. They deserve their placement on this list but people over-hype the "Mount rush" mentality.

how

people talk about dumping bexp on wonk ass losers like soren and neph

dump that bexp on kieran

commence to endgame

[-Cynthia-]

I don't deny that siege toming is primarily useful, but with the exception of Calill the investment you have to make to get a siege tomer is pretty heavy and much less that the investment you put into neph to get another Boyd. Boyd/Ike's Earlygame is good but I'm not convinced it's two tiers worth and I definitely feel there's a tier difference between the myrms and Neph.

I can accept mages > Neph, because they DO save turns, but Neph should still be UM IMO.

I'm not sure there's a big difference in investment. For instance, Nephenee's joining level is only one higher than Ilyana's and she joins several chapters later.

[Hawk King]

You only need 3 mounts/fliers on any given map for the lowest TC and yet people talk like you want 7 on every map.

Bexp'ing Kieran really doesnt do anything for you until Chp 16 and even then your Super flyer is doing the bulk of the work. You do want to have a couple good mounts, but not 5 of them.

Sure the game is super easy with a quartet of over-powered Palys but that doesn't take much strategy.

Maybe its just me, but I value LTCs over using all the mounts.

[Narga_Rocks]

But if any 3 of, say, 7 mounts and any 2 of, say, 4 foot units are needed on a given map, and the 3 mounts contribute more than the 2 foot units, how do you place all 11 units on the tier list? It seems to me the 7 mounts would need to go above the 4 foot units, yes?

[Zkirsche]

I'm not sure there's a big difference in investment. For instance, Nephenee's joining level is only one higher than Ilyana's and she joins several chapters later.

And Neph has 6 more def and over twice as much growth in the stat.

[Espinosa]

You only need 3 mounts/fliers on any given map for the lowest TC and yet people talk like you want 7 on every map.

Bexp'ing Kieran really doesnt do anything for you until Chp 16 and even then your Super flyer is doing the bulk of the work. You do want to have a couple good mounts, but not 5 of them.

Sure the game is super easy with a quartet of over-powered Palys but that doesn't take much strategy.

Maybe its just me, but I value LTCs over using all the mounts.

Jill could replace Marcia, and Makalov or Astrid could replace Titania, Kieran or Oscar, and they would still all perform better than Soren or Boyd, even if a lowest turns run neglects all alternatives to the necessity to shave off turns with extreme BEXP investments.

Boyd vs Makalov/Astrid is worth discussing though, but every other foot unit just doesn't compete.

[General Banzai]

why do you need any fucking foot units just ram your 3 paladins full move every turn and make yourself some coffee during enemy phase

[Zkirsche]

Because this is not a 3 person tier list. If you think the tier list should just be the pallys/fliers and "everyone else" why don't you go and make a new tier list?

[Vykan_12]

Also speaking of Nephenee, you can BEXP her with the knight ward to get her close to a point of spd every level-up (85% growth). In 9 levels of BEXP you could get her doubling every raven in C12 & 13. She does have low base str but once you get her to D lances and invest a steel forge in her, she'll be set for life. Seems pretty low-investment to me, at least compared to the resource dump being assumed on the magic users.

[dondon151]

banzai is just trying to explain why people think that mount rush is a thing in this game. he's pretty much right; a casual player can just charge mounted units at the enemy and go do something more productive during enemy phase.

[Espinosa]

Nothing's stopping a casual player from doing the same with Nephenee or even Gatrie though, and you even get an accessory that enables them to canto.

I think the argument for the generous investment into mages is that they shave off turns in ambitious lowest turns runs (whereas Nephenee is never going to be attacking at 10-range or rescuing no matter how little or how much you invest).

[PKL]

Also speaking of Nephenee, you can BEXP her with the knight ward to get her close to a point of spd every level-up (85% growth). In 9 levels of BEXP you could get her doubling every raven in C12 & 13. She does have low base str but once you get her to D lances and invest a steel forge in her, she'll be set for life. Seems pretty low-investment to me, at least compared to the resource dump being assumed on the magic users.

Knight Ward doesn't exist until mid-Chapter 13...

And Nephenee requires more resources (1 Arms Scroll, forges, BEXP and kills) than siegers (forges, BEXP, kills) to do her thing. And siegers have more unique utility than Nephenee. Speciallly if we're talking about Soren vs Nephenee since Soren can Rescue stuff.

[Refa]

Knight Ward doesn't exist until mid-Chapter 13...

And Nephenee requires more resources (1 Arms Scroll, forges, BEXP and kills) than siegers (forges, BEXP, kills) to do her thing. And siegers have more unique utility than Nephenee. Speciallly if we're talking about Soren vs Nephenee since Soren can Rescue stuff.

Noone is arguing Nephenee above siegers though.

[Zkirsche]

That arms scroll is so highly contested.

Also I'm pretty sure she doesn't need as much BEXP as Ilyana. She starts doubling quickly and even at level 10 she can ORKO soldiers in chapter 13 with a steel forge. That is not a lot bexp.

Edit: Also I'm just asking that they be put in the same tier.

Edited October 22, 2013 by kirsche

[-Cynthia-]

Yeah, but Nephenee might need more BEXP later to successfully clear C25 or some such. Depending upon how many mounted units we're using, Nephenee's opportunities for CEXP may be somewhat limited. I wouldn't really call Nephenee a low investment unit overall.

[Vykan_12]

Knight Ward doesn't exist until mid-Chapter 13...

My point was more that Nephenee is insanely fast. You can double pretty much any enemy in the game with 22-24 spd, and Neph has that easily going into 20/1. In the more immediate context, the average C13 enemy takes at most 15 AS to double, which Neph reaches in like 4-5 levels of BEXP. Hell, with that BEXP investment and an iron forge, she can almost ORKO most C13 enemies, and cleanly ORKOes myrmidons. Not to mention that outside of maybe Astrid & Makalov, she's your best candidate for knight ward in-chapter for the +3 def since it's overkill on anyone else. 25 hp/14 def means she takes chip damage from anything not a fighter, who 4HKO. That's a lot of return on very little investment.

And Nephenee requires more resources (1 Arms Scroll, forges, BEXP and kills) than siegers (forges, BEXP, kills) to do her thing. And siegers have more unique utility than Nephenee. Speciallly if we're talking about Soren vs Nephenee since Soren can Rescue stuff.

That's nonsense. She doesn't need an arms scroll and needs half as much BEXP to become a ready-made combat unit. The seige tomes are a fair point, the rescue staff I don't find quite as convincing since it's usually better used on high mobility units like master sealed Mist or base Elincia. And with only 3-9 uses (depending on hammerne use), the rescue staff isn't exactly an item you want to use improperly.

Now if you take the view that the game is bulldozed by mounted units, you have to also consider that the odd foot unit like Boyd or Neph won't have trouble keeping up thanks to rescue-dropping on turns where no enemies are immediately in range, which is roughly half the time given the enemy density distribution in the game. The knight ring also helps in that respect, although it is probably on Ike or Mordy most of the time (smite-canto ftw).

[Zkirsche]

Yeah, but Nephenee might need more BEXP later to successfully clear C25 or some such. Depending upon how many mounted units we're using, Nephenee's opportunities for CEXP may be somewhat limited. I wouldn't really call Nephenee a low investment unit overall.

True, but the mages need that same amount of bexp, maybe more considering Soren isn't exactly speedy with the tomes. The point is that Neph takes up a similar amount of resources to become basically a second Boyd, a well-established high tier unit, and that should make her upper mid tier quality.

[Hawk King]

Arms scrolls highly contested? By who? Mist and Neph are the only ones who need them to be better. The Sages can reach the necessary weapon ranks for sieging without them.

@ Vykan - Giving Neph 9 LVs of Bexp takes more Bexp than I was suggesting for Soren. And the Knight Ward is only +2 DEF.

[Narga_Rocks]

Why does Neph need an arms scroll? Forged steel doesn't appear until she should have D anyway, and promotion is insta C and then if she's attacking a lot then she'll get A in time for forged silver anyway.

The trouble, I guess, is she'll rely more on that forge than others. But she probably doesn't want to get weighed down by steel lances anyway, and she'll hopefully get D lances around the time of 13 str anyway. Probably by 11 str, really, unless she got a big bexp dump.

[Hawk King]

Oh, I guess Javelins are E rank... Ok that only proves my point more. Arms scrolls are almost useless. Just a luxury.

[Stackhouse]

I feel like Nephenee is deserving of a higher placement. In every playthrough she is always one of my strongest characters. She is easy to level, hard to kill, and Wrath is fantastic!