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Vykan12

FE6 hard mode tier list, take 2

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Tier list is for hard mode.

Tier list faq

First off, here’s an easy way to find enemy stats yourself. Download the 2 items below:

VBA V22

Special savestate (slot 10)

Now go to cheats -> view cheat list -> codebreaker and type in the following code:

3202AA56 00##

You just need to replace the ## with the chapter code, which is the number of the chapter in hex. I can’t remember how to access B route or gaidens, though Nitrodon knows how.

After putting in the code, you can either save in the save screen or press B to exit it, and you should be in the chapter you selected. From here you can look at all the enemy samples you want.

If that’s too aggravating, you do have an alternative:

Slightly uninformative FE6 stats through pictures.

Also worth mentioning is this Spanish site with map info and enemy numbers.

And onto the actual list. Since on genesis we split Ilia and Sacae route, I will do the same here. And since having 2 lists would stretch the page pretty far, I decided to put both lists under spoilers.

Ilia Route

-Top Tier-

Lance

Alan

Dieck

Rutger

Miredy

Percival

-High Tier-

Gonzales

Clarine

Echidna

Lalum

Elphin

Chad

Astohl

-Upper Mid Tier-

Marcus

Thany

Shin

Lot

Saul

Roy

Ellen

Fir

Klein

Lugh

-Lower Mid Tier-

Cecilia

Bartre

Tate

Noah

Zealot

Treck

Oujay

Geese

Ward

Fa

Niime

Ray

Igrene

Lilina

Garret

Douglas

Barth

-Low Tier-

Cath

Hugh

Boris

Zeiss

Yodel

-Bottom Tier-

Merlinus

Sue

Walt

Karel

Dorothy

Juno

-Graveyard Tier-

Sophia

Wendy

Sacae Route

-Top Tier-

Lance

Alan

Dieck

Rutger

Miredy

Percival

-High Tier-

Gonzales

Clarine

Echidna

Lalum

Elphin

Chad

Astohl

-Upper Mid Tier-

Marcus

Thany

Shin

Lot

Saul

Roy

Ellen

Fir

Klein

Lugh

-Lower Mid Tier-

Cecilia

Bartre

Tate

Noah

Zealot

Treck

Oujay

Geese

Ward

Fa

Niime

Igrene

Ray

Lilina

Garret

Douglas

Barth

-Low Tier-

Cath

Hugh

Boris

Zeiss

Dayan

Yodel

-Bottom Tier-

Merlinus

Sue

Walt

Karel

Dorothy

-Graveyard Tier-

Sophia

Wendy

Edited by Vykan12

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Are you really sure about both archers and Sue being a whole two tiers below characters like Garret and Barth?

Dorothy for sure is crap and deserves a pretty low spot on the list, but she does enough damage to be useful for a couple chapters, before you have too many characters that are better. That's more than you can say for Barth, whose only utility is in chapter 8, if there.

Wolt is also not worth investing in in the long run, like Dorothy, but you're forced to use him for many chapters and he's helpful, if only to weaken enemies so that other characters can take the kill. There aren't too many enemies with ranged attacks at that stage to put him in danger when you position him properly, either. He should be above Dorothy.

Sue's case is similar to that of Lilina in that she comes without any weapons at level one and can, with a lot of patience and training, turn into a very useful character. Sue comes a couple chapters earlier than Lilina does, though, and the enemies she faces just after she's recruited are a bit weaker. You're also required to use Sue in the first Western Isles chapter, so it's a good idea to train her up a bit if only so that she can handle herself in front of the ballistae before recruiting Shin. She'll probably always have trouble ORKOing enemies, but so do a lot of characters that are placed above her right now and Sue can dodge well. She belongs around where Lilina is on the tier list, though certainly no higher than Oujay.

Lastly, what's up with Fir in upper mid? I actually like all of the level one high potential high maintenance characters you get in FE6, but it seems like most don't and consistency is important in a tier list. Fir is at least as hard to raise as Lilina, since she comes at a point when enemies are significantly tougher and doesn't have a weapon type that slices through their defenses like Lilina does. When Fir finally is raised up, her competition (Rutger) will still be able to outstrip her in terms of stats and she'll be competing for one of the most contested promotion items with the Hero Crest. She's a lower mid by this community's definition if there ever was one.

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I don't see how Chad is above Astohl. Chad needs exp to increase his durability while the exp he gets could have been used for someone else, yes he's helping with the early chest but he isn't good in combat neither is Asthol but Asthol's base stats gives him better durability than Chad and also the fact he does not need any exp is another factor.

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Are you really sure about both archers and Sue being a whole two tiers below characters like Garret and Barth?

Dorothy for sure is crap and deserves a pretty low spot on the list, but she does enough damage to be useful for a couple chapters, before you have too many characters that are better. That's more than you can say for Barth, whose only utility is in chapter 8, if there.

Wolt is also not worth investing in in the long run, like Dorothy, but you're forced to use him for many chapters and he's helpful, if only to weaken enemies so that other characters can take the kill. There aren't too many enemies with ranged attacks at that stage to put him in danger when you position him properly, either. He should be above Dorothy.

Sue's case is similar to that of Lilina in that she comes without any weapons at level one and can, with a lot of patience and training, turn into a very useful character. Sue comes a couple chapters earlier than Lilina does, though, and the enemies she faces just after she's recruited are a bit weaker. You're also required to use Sue in the first Western Isles chapter, so it's a good idea to train her up a bit if only so that she can handle herself in front of the ballistae before recruiting Shin. She'll probably always have trouble ORKOing enemies, but so do a lot of characters that are placed above her right now and Sue can dodge well. She belongs around where Lilina is on the tier list, though certainly no higher than Oujay.

Lastly, what's up with Fir in upper mid? I actually like all of the level one high potential high maintenance characters you get in FE6, but it seems like most don't and consistency is important in a tier list. Fir is at least as hard to raise as Lilina, since she comes at a point when enemies are significantly tougher and doesn't have a weapon type that slices through their defenses like Lilina does. When Fir finally is raised up, her competition (Rutger) will still be able to outstrip her in terms of stats and she'll be competing for one of the most contested promotion items with the Hero Crest. She's a lower mid by this community's definition if there ever was one.

Fir joins right before an Axe rush,so she can easily gain some levels,plus,Fir has HM bonuses,so she is useable even in her bad period.And unlike characters like Lilina,Fir has speed,so she can y'know,double?

Anyway,What do you guys think of Ilia Tate > Klein?

When they join,Klein is great,with his Player phase nuking,but that's just it,he only has player phase.On player phase offense,he has 6 Str Vs. Tate's 2 Spd,so he wins,but then she has enemy phase contributions and Flying utility to counter.

And it only gets better for Tate,while their growths are similar,(Tate wins Str,Skl,and Spd slightly),Tate grows at a much quicker rate,and with Elysian whips pretty much uncontested,Tate can promote basically whenever she wants,netting her 6 Hp and

2 Str/Skl/Spd/Def/Res.

Klien also won;t be doubling forever,so his offense drops off significantly after a while,while Tate still has flying and Enemy phase.

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I don't see how Chad is above Astohl. Chad needs exp to increase his durability while the exp he gets could have been used for someone else, yes he's helping with the early chest but he isn't good in combat neither is Asthol but Asthol's base stats gives him better durability than Chad and also the fact he does not need any exp is another factor.

Durability doesn't matter until long range magic comes into play (starting chapter 16). In chapter 16, the Bolting mage is actually the stronger of the 2 long range magic attackers, with 28 atk. Chad can survive that with a +7 Pure Water at 7/0. The Purge bishop has 24 atk, which Chad can survive at 3/0. The Bolting mage should generally be killed early with a Longbow sniper, so Chad's durability problems are negligible in chapter 16.

Chad has a monopoly on chests before chapter 8. From chapter 8 on, Chad and Astohl share chests, because every subsequent map has 2 groups of chests that you need 2 thieves to get for efficient completion. This is an obvious win for Chad.

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I think that Percival should be in top tier, and the main reason he isn’t there is because of availability. But then Miledy just moved to top, so showing him > Miledy would be sufficient, with the issue of availability being avoided almost altogether.

Percival can join near the end of chapter 13, but considering 14 is the desert, he might as well join in 15 for the HM boosts. Miledy gets 11 exp/hit and 43 exp/kill, so I’ll be nice and give her 4 levels in 2 chapters.

Miledy lv 14/0: 41 hp, 16 def, 4 res, 8.5 cev

Killer lance: 28.5 atk, 112 hit, 38 crit, 15 AS, 38.5 avo

Javelin: 24.5 atk, 92 hit, 13 AS, 34.5 avo

Percival lv --/5: 51 hp, 15 def, 13 res, 15 cev

Killer axe: 31 atk, 104 hit, 38 crit, 20 AS, 47.5 avo

Javelin: 26 atk, 94 hit, 20 AS, 47.5 avo

Merc lv 17 (steel sword): 39 hp, 23 atk, 110 hit, 39 avo, 9 crit, 15 AS, 9 def, 4 res, 9 cev

Merc lv 18 (steel sword): 40 hp, 24 atk, 114 hit, 41 avo, 10 crit, 16 AS, 9 def, 4 res, 9 cev

Percival can ORKO these mercs with a steel weapon whereas Miledy can’t even double. With the killer lance, she’s borderline 2HKOing them. Defensively, Percival is 7RKOed while Miledy is 6RKOed, so neither character is particularly concerned about dying. It’s worth noting that Miledy does face 1-2% crit against her, so a merc could take off roughly half her health instantly.

Dragon rider lv 18 (steel lance): 41 hp, 28 atk, 82 hit, 26 avo, 10 AS, 15 def, 2 res, 6 cev

Both need a crit to one round, though Percy’s doing ~19.5% more damage against a high def enemy. He can also use the wyrmslayer, or opt to use a silver lance to reduce the wyvern to single digit hp. Defensively, Percival’s at a huge advantage thanks to higher innate avo + WTA… 5RKOed at 13 real vs 4RKOed at 39 real. I suppose Miledy isn’t too worried about dying anyway, but the advantage is still there. For example, if we wanted to have Miledy solo a group of 4 wyvern reinforcements, it might take her 6-7 rounds of combat (between 4 and 8 because of 2 rounding but with a killer weapon), which comes out to a 27% chance of death. For Percival it’s only 0.06%, and if there’s a nearby forest, then the CoD is better expressed in scientific notation.

Cavalier lv 14 (steel lance, javelin): 37 hp, 22 atk, 81 hit, 26 avo, 9 AS, 10 def, 2 res, 8 cev

Cavalier lv 18 (steel lance, javelin): 41 hp, 25 atk, 85 hit, 27 avo, 10 AS, 10 def, 3 res, 9 cev

Pretty much the same story as the wyverns, only this time Percival can one-round while Miledy can’t (unless she uses a horeslayer or crits). If the cavs switch to the javelin, which they most definitely will on enemy phase, their AS increases by 2 points, which means Miledy’s borderline on doubling them, and flat out won’t double if she uses a javelin herself. Percival can still do >82% damage using hand axes, so he’s at a great advantage in regards to ranged attacking. He can also use halberd for two effective weapon options to Miledy’s one.

Archer lv 17 (longbow): 39 hp, 18 atk (28 eff), 85 hit, 25 avo, 8 AS, 8 def, 4 res, 9 cev

Sniper lv 5 (silver bow): 44 hp, 31 atk (57 eff), 107 hit, 36 avo, 13 AS, 10 def, 7 res, 10 cev

Both destroy the archer, while Percival wins against the sniper due to doubling. Defensively, Miledy can actually shake off the longbow hit reasonably well (same impact as the wyvern hit lol) but the silver bow sniper 1HKOes her at 69 display hit, which makes him a neon sign that tells Miledy to stay the hell away. Btw, this makes it virtually impossible for Miledy to just charge towards Raeth, but rather have her drop a h4x combatant like Percival there to clear the path.

Tl;dr, Percival outperforms Miledy in every aspect of combat except of course mobility. Even then, 7 move + flying – fear of bows vs 8 move is arguable, and Percival obviously wins in that regard on indoor maps, such as the next chapter.

Chapter 16

Miledy lv 16/0: 42.5 hp, 17 def, 4 res, 9 cev

Killer lance: 29.5 atk, 114 hit, 39 crit, 16 AS, 40.5 avo

Javelin: 25.5 atk, 94 hit, 14 AS, 36.5 avo

Percival lv --/5: 51 hp, 15 def, 13 res, 15 cev

Killer axe: 31 atk, 104 hit, 38 crit, 20 AS, 47.5 avo

Javelin: 26 atk, 94 hit, 20 AS, 47.5 avo

Nothing really changes for the enemy types I’ve already mentioned, so let’s look at the new ones brought forth in this chapter.

Mage lv 17 (elfire): 30 hp, 23 atk, 103 hit, 29 avo, 12-13 AS, 4 def, 13 res, 5 cev

Miledy’s doubling is borderline even when not weighed down. Nothing else to say about offence. Durability-wise, Percival wins big, as he takes about half the damage Miledy does per hit while having a 9 hp and 7 avo advantage.

Armor lv 18 (steel lance, javelin): 37 hp, 27 atk, 84 hit, 15 avo, 4 AS, 16 def, 1 res, 7 cev

The most notable thing here is that hammers are buyable in the C9 armory, so Percival won’t have any trouble getting one for an easy 1RKO against these (probably generals too).

Paladin lv 1 (steel sword, javelin): 45 hp, 22 atk, 99 hit, 35 avo, 14 AS, 12 def, 8 res, 7 cev

You get the point by now. Miledy doesn’t double, so Percival’s offence is at least twice a good here. His WTC gives him a sizeable durability advantage and once again halberd + horseslayer > just horseslayer.

I’m not sure Miledy will ever surpass Percival’s offence. There’s nothing she can do about him having A swords/A lances/C axes versus her C-A lances/E+ swords, and all the advantages that entails. She matches his base speed at 20/2, and while she is still levelling quite fast, she won’t get there for a few more chapters, and Percival won’t be --/5 forever, especially with promoted enemies becoming more frequent. There’s not really any way for her to beat his durability since bow + magic (particularly aircalibur) users are way more frequent than horseslayers, and he can use terrain, which can be frequent in some chapters (look at 18I for a prime example). Maybe I should look at supports a bit.

Miledy supports Zeiss pretty fast (20+3), but then Zeiss is currently in low and also joins fairly late (in C16, so that’s 3 chapters where Miledy isn’t building anything). Her other option is Ellen, as I don’t think 1+1 supports stand a chance to reach anything past C once we reach midgame. But then, what’s a frail healer and a tanky flier going to do together? They’ll only be adjacent whenever Miledy flies back to get healed, which might not even be necessary if physics start creeping up. The bonuses are pretty meh too: full hit and crit is nice, but that’s about it (full cev is irrelevant for the most part). On Percival’s end, he’s got a 20+2 support with Klein and a 30+2 with Cecilia, both of which give nice bonuses, but that’s about it.

I’d say both characters’ supports kinda suck, though Percival is probably slightly better off.

I can’t be arsed to make a lategame comparison, though eying average stats, I can see that Miledy will eventually surpass Percival’s str. However, the difference is small since Percival still has a weapon mt advantage through axes and more frequent WTA, plus he’s better at doubling mercs/heroes, so I’d still say their offence will only tie at best. She also gets a 3 def lead while only trailing 2 hp, but Percival’s avo advantage alone compensates for that (see above paragraphs).

I’m not so sure Percival > Miledy anymore, though I’m still convinced they should be in the same tier.

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I can agree with Percy in top tier,heck I suggested it before,as for him moving above Miledy...I'm not sure yet.

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By the way I did realize Bartre can avoid being doubled by the 16 AS Wyvern Lords by Level 10, so it's a matter of he can hit that high if we're denying a Speedwing. He can survive a round w/Angelic Robe.

Also aok with the Percival tidbit.

Edited by Billy: Hunter - General

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Are you really sure about both archers and Sue being a whole two tiers below characters like Garret and Barth?

Not really. I can’t make a change without a convincing argument though. Off the top of my head though, Garret seems pretty decent, as he can have great single-hit offence right of the bat. Class crit bonus + killer axe = 60 crit already lololol. He can be used as a niche unit for doing things like taking on wyverns on a mountain space.

Dorothy for sure is crap and deserves a pretty low spot on the list, but she does enough damage to be useful for a couple chapters, before you have too many characters that are better. That's more than you can say for Barth, whose only utility is in chapter 8, if there.

What are you basing this on? Barth has 14 def base and a 40% growth. Alan doesn’t match that def base until 20/6, just to give you an idea. What I’m saying is Barth’s ability to absorb hits alone constitutes as “utility”, and it definitely stretches beyond one chapter.

Wolt is also not worth investing in in the long run, like Dorothy, but you're forced to use him for many chapters and he's helpful, if only to weaken enemies so that other characters can take the kill. There aren't too many enemies with ranged attacks at that stage to put him in danger when you position him properly, either. He should be above Dorothy.

How is everything you said about Wolt not applicable to Dorothy? She just does it for less time, though probably more effectively given her ranking (I’d have to look into it).

She'll probably always have trouble ORKOing enemies, but so do a lot of characters that are placed above her right now and Sue can dodge well. She belongs around where Lilina is on the tier list, though certainly no higher than Oujay.

Again, I need more than this to consider making changes.

When Fir finally is raised up, her competition (Rutger) will still be able to outstrip her in terms of stats

Characters can be compared to anybody, not just units in their respective classes. Fir being worse than a top tier unit is irrelevant considering her current ranking.

and she'll be competing for one of the most contested promotion items with the Hero Crest. She's a lower mid by this community's definition if there ever was one.

True, but this becomes a non-issue by chapter 16 anyway (buyable promo items).

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Nomads have notably high avo, which pronounces his hit rate issues, especially if he wants to counter them with a hand axe.

Edited by Corn on the cob

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I think that Percival should be in top tier, and the main reason he isn’t there is because of availability. But then Miledy just moved to top, so showing him > Miledy would be sufficient, with the issue of availability being avoided almost altogether.

Wait, I thought you took this from FEG. Percival went to Top there.

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I actually agree with Percy>Miredy and I'm fine with it so long as Miredy stays in Top.

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Pretty sure Gonzo can double them when most other people have issues with that. Doubling twice with lots of att/crit but low hit vs attacking once with less att/crit but more hit? Not seeing how the latter is that much superior, if at all, even if the latter ends up doubling too. Seems situational to me. Liek, if Gonzo had 40 real hit, 20 damage, 30 crit and doubled vs someone having liek 80 rela hit, 10 damage, 0 crit, and doubled, Gonzo is actually better mathematically (expected 16 damage with 30 crit vs expected 16 damage with 0 crit).

Even for top/high tiers, I'm pretty sure Dieck and Alan have issues doubling. Or at least more than Gonzo as they have less spd than him, and they also lose att/crit for a hit lead. Lance/Echidna have about the same spd, but way less att/crit for more hit. Rutger can't even counter them (although he's great for pwning them on player phase, but so is Gonzo). Miledy faces eff. mt from them so she doesn't really want to counter them, although I suppose delphi shield.

Then you look at upper mid. Thany may not even be played because this is sacae, and using Thany means we may end up going to Ilia, but regardless, she also needs Delphi shield to not get pwned in the face, and if she uses javelin to counter she probably can't double anymore. Shin can counter nomads well, but he also can't avoid the player phase counter unless he uses a sword, which gives up his ability to counter them anyway (unless you trade, but you can do the same thing for Gonzo). Lot doesn't have much ebtter hit than Gonzo, and loses att/crit/AS by a ton. And the lower you go, the more pronounced the gaps become (well except maybe Lugh. wtf is he doing so low anyway?)

Gonzo's hit isn't that horrible anyway. At 20/1 he has 40.75 hit. That's only slightly lower than 20/4 Alan, who has 41.4 (well, before supports/weapon, and Alan has a higher hit growth). Percy has to be 20/10 before he has a 10 hit lead on Gonzo (50.85 hit). And if it's a problem, secret books. They're in much lower demand than the other stat boosters (unless gold's a problem in this game, in which case you could sell them, but I don't recall money being a big issue in this game).

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So my views on the Bartre thread…

Not enough there to prompt a change. He does well on Ilia!pegs, but so does everyone else apparently, and that’s all the topic presented. I’m not convinced that Bartre would realistically get a speedwing since even if they’re buyable, it’s hard as fuck for many units to double enemies in this game (particularly heroes), so it really should be going towards offensive purposes.

Still, intuitively a pre-promote warrior with high concrete durability and single hit offence seems like a useful unit in this type of game, so I’m going to investigate Bartre’s performance a little bit.

Hmm, maybe a quick Roy comparison is in order.

Chapter 13-14

Roy lv 20/0 33 hp, 10 def, 6 res, 18 cev

Killing edge: 22 atk, 119 hit, 37 crit, 14 AS, 46 avo

B Alan, B Lance: 26 atk, 134 hit, 52 crit, 14 AS, 66 avo (also +1 def/res and some cev)

Bartre lv --/2: 49 hp, 10 def, 3 res, 14 cev

Killer axe: 33 atk, 94 hit, 35 crit, 10 AS, 34 avo

Hmm… Roy doubles steel lance!cavs, but that’s about it. Conversely, Bartre will not get doubled by anything except silver lance!paladins. At any rate, Bartre wins offence quite easily here. Against an enemy cav (37 hp/10 def), Roy can’t even land a kill with a crit if Alan + Lance are out of range. Though if they are in range, he can 3RKO while Bartre 2RKOes, though his 17 crit advantage might bring that to a tie. Against wyverns though, there’s no question that Bartre’s better. Supported Roy 3-4HKOes them while Bartre 2HKOes easily. Roy can double the ones using steel, but most of the wyverns also have javelins, which Roy can’t counter. Bartre probably still 2-3HKOes with a hand axe.

Defensively, 16 hp vs 12 avo definitely bends in Bartre’s favor because of lance heaviness (ie he actually wins avo). With supports, Roy does become rather unhittable even with WTD, but he also gets 2HKOed pretty easily, so I’d declare Bartre the winner regardless.

Note that Roy is stuck at this level until chapter 22 whereas Bartre will be improving, albeit rather slowly (being promoted + crappy growths ftl). However, he’s also building supports and bow level, so it’s certainly not negligible.

At a glance I’m ready to declare Bartre and Roy in the same tier.

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Bartre lv --/2: 49 hp, 10 def, 3 res, 14 cev

Killer axe: 33 atk, 94 hit, 35 crit, 10 AS, 34 avo

Bartre does not have access to Killer Axes by C13-14. They're only buyable on A Route pre C17A-18B.

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I feel that losing Echidna as well as the better Gonzo, and to an extent the slightly better dancer, does not make Bartre same tier as Roy. Or at least on Sacae, as nomads might double him. Maybe he could rise on Ilia, but I'm still against that.

Edited by Andrew W.K.

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I feel that losing Echidna as well as the better Gonzo, and to an extent the slightly better dancer, does not make Bartre same tier as Roy.

Don't forget no Killer Axes buyable in C11. That's a very notable and yet often overlooked point.

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Hey Vykan.

I think that Percival should be in top tier, and the main reason he isn’t there is because of availability. But then Miledy just moved to top, so showing him > Miledy would be sufficient, with the issue of availability being avoided almost altogether.

Wait, I thought you took this from FEG. Percival went to Top there.

Clarine did as well.

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*Smash's post*

You make a good case. I was just a bit reluctant because of this:

IMO Gonzales needs to be under Lot on the Sacae list. It shouldn't be very difficult to see why, I think.

Which a lot of people seemed to agree with. And since Lot is in upper-mid, it follows that Gonzales should be too. Either that, or Sacae!Lot should be in high. Orrr, there's the possibility that the importance of Sacae route is being grossly exaggerated. Feel free to offer input on the matter.

(well except maybe Lugh. wtf is he doing so low anyway?)

I recall Jackal exaggerating negative details about his earlygame performance, otherwise I dunno. Durability has a lot to do with it though.

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So i guess no one has any input on Tate?

*Looks back*

Anyway,What do you guys think of Ilia Tate > Klein?

When they join,Klein is great,with his Player phase nuking,but that's just it,he only has player phase.On player phase offense,he has 6 Str Vs. Tate's 2 Spd,so he wins,but then she has enemy phase contributions and Flying utility to counter.

And it only gets better for Tate,while their growths are similar,(Tate wins Str,Skl,and Spd slightly),Tate grows at a much quicker rate,and with Elysian whips pretty much uncontested,Tate can promote basically whenever she wants,netting her 6 Hp and

2 Str/Skl/Spd/Def/Res.

Klien also won;t be doubling forever,so his offense drops off significantly after a while,while Tate still has flying and Enemy phase.

I was going to write something but just realized that Tate gets HM bonuses for some reason. Still, you’re ignoring Tate’s spd loss due to her terrible con, and the details are a bit sketchy, so I’ll have a closer look at this later.

I feel that losing Echidna as well as the better Gonzo, and to an extent the slightly better dancer, does not make Bartre same tier as Roy. Or at least on Sacae, as nomads might double him. Maybe he could rise on Ilia, but I'm still against that.

Fair enough. Though, this fault varies according to whether we actually deploy Echidna/super Gonzo/Lalum or not.

Don't forget no Killer Axes buyable in C11. That's a very notable and yet often overlooked point.

>_> That’s just plain weird. They sell killer axes on one route but not the other, and in the C13 shop they sell 3/4 of the killer weapon types, inconveniently leaving killer axes out, which we have to wait for until 18B.

Hey Vykan.

Clarine did as well (get moved to top tier on genesis)

I think Cats summed this up best:

Aside from just poor offense, Clarine doesn't have any significant wins over Ellen/Saul until promotion. Her supports are slow and won't be around during pre-promotion time (maybe C's towards the tail end of this time period), and durability isn't nearly as important since none of them should be getting attacked if you can avoid it. All she really has is move, though Ellen has availability, and Saul is harder to OHKO for whatever that's worth.

Anyways, the point is that Clarine's advantages over these two only exist in any significant capacity for half the game. There's a one tier gap between lots of combat units whose differences are relevant for the entire game (Roy vs Ward for example), so I certainly don't see how there's a two tier gap for advantages that only matter for half the game.

This could mean moving Ellen + Saul up instead, but I think someone insisted that Clarine’s offence wasn’t good enough for top.

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About Percival vs. Miledy stuff, Miledy has flying, which in my opinion is her trump card, considering that she is fairly close to Percival in other respects.

I feel that losing Echidna as well as the better Gonzo, and to an extent the slightly better dancer, does not make Bartre same tier as Roy. Or at least on Sacae, as nomads might double him. Maybe he could rise on Ilia, but I'm still against that.

You can't punish Bartre twice for being worse than Echidna.

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I can agree with Percy in top. If anyone deserves to be there, it's his broke ass.

Anyways, this one caught my interest.

Are you really sure about both archers and Sue being a whole two tiers below characters like Garret and Barth?

Hell yeah, they can actually counter, and both can take a shot, and both can take a beating.

Dorothy for sure is crap and deserves a pretty low spot on the list, but she does enough damage to be useful for a couple chapters, before you have too many characters that are better. That's more than you can say for Barth, whose only utility is in chapter 8, if there.

Maybe you should early promote him, and suddenly that utility extends all the way until forever.

Hey, worked for Thany.

Wolt is also not worth investing in in the long run, like Dorothy, but you're forced to use him for many chapters and he's helpful, if only to weaken enemies so that other characters can take the kill. There aren't too many enemies with ranged attacks at that stage to put him in danger when you position him properly, either. He should be above Dorothy.

Dorothy at level 11 is promotable to basically become a weaker and lower rank Klein that doubles far more frequently throughout the game as she'd have 1 more speed point along with a better growth. Walt is just Klein with less strength and worse rank.

Not saying Walt has his advantages, but you'd have far more reason to train Dorothy than Walt...

Sue's case is similar to that of Lilina in that she comes without any weapons at level one and can, with a lot of patience and training, turn into a very useful character. Sue comes a couple chapters earlier than Lilina does, though, and the enemies she faces just after she's recruited are a bit weaker. You're also required to use Sue in the first Western Isles chapter, so it's a good idea to train her up a bit if only so that she can handle herself in front of the ballistae before recruiting Shin. She'll probably always have trouble ORKOing enemies, but so do a lot of characters that are placed above her right now and Sue can dodge well. She belongs around where Lilina is on the tier list, though certainly no higher than Oujay.

Handle herself in front of the ballistae before recruiting Shin? Wut???????

But yeah, do point me to when she sees these benefits. She basically has the worst strength of any archer, and her con helps ruin her speed so she can never put steel to good use until basically promotion. So basically she's a mobile archer who sucks at her job worse than the actual archers.

We could early promote her, but by the time that would actually be helpful (before the isles), it's already chapter 11 (when the axes start to dissapear). Iron swords with her paling strength against tough units with lances is not cutting the paper. Her only time when you could say she's "good" is when she's doubling in Sacae and Bern with her bows.

At least Lillina has ways to be comparable to Lou instantly until he starts doubling.

Lastly, what's up with Fir in upper mid? I actually like all of the level one high potential high maintenance characters you get in FE6, but it seems like most don't and consistency is important in a tier list. Fir is at least as hard to raise as Lilina, since she comes at a point when enemies are significantly tougher and doesn't have a weapon type that slices through their defenses like Lilina does. When Fir finally is raised up, her competition (Rutger) will still be able to outstrip her in terms of stats and she'll be competing for one of the most contested promotion items with the Hero Crest. She's a lower mid by this community's definition if there ever was one.

Lessee, a sword unit in the axe heavy isles with hard mode boosts, the speed to double, fast leveling speed and upon promotion has a huge crit boost along with supports that not only suck as bad as Lillina's, but actually want her?

Sounds upper mid to me. Trust me, I've been rabid against her with Klein, and evne I have to admit that Klein loses in the end or I simply have just submitted to the idea after having been beaten constantly with a stick

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