Best Character

[General Spoon]

McCartney.

This.

[Sho Minamimoto]

Hero!Gerik with a Garm.

Awesome bases plus solid growths plus a +5 SPD axe? Sold.

Even without Garm, he obliterates with Brave Axes.

Edited February 4, 2010 by Sho Minamimoto

[Jaybee]

Am I the only person that has ever played through the game w/o tower abuse? I'm not sure if you guys are comparing units by that their stats are at 20/20...

Whenever I played it, I hardly had anybody at 20/20

Everyone who debates has played through the game without tower abuse.

[Junkhead]

^What Fox said. Even if the game is easy, some characters will always be better than others.

And this game isn't so easy that you can take two characters and say 'well they both 1-round everything and never die, so they're effectively equal'.

Of course it isn't. But since when is a pre-promoted unit the best unit? Isn't that an excuse to consider unpromoted unitis worse when the other ones will do just as good or even better once promoted? And saying that one of their weak points is having the requirement of a promotion item sounds a little bit, um...lazy, since you will actually promote a few units throughout the game, the one that is most likely to promote by +chapter 8 is Gilliam or Franz. Seth won't gain much level unless you feed him lots of kills when he only gains around 4 EXP unless it's a boss he's killing.

Hero!Gerik with a Garm.

Awesome bases plus solid growths plus a +5 SPD axe? Sold.

Even without Garm, he obliterates with Brave Axes.

This.

[Inui]

Seth is always the best character on the map with the exception of perhaps the last two or three chapters unless you show rather extreme favoritism towards some other unit, so how can he be anything but the very best?

[CATS]

Ephraim has much higher stats than Seth and is needed to seize. He is the best character in the game. Seth is kinda sucky rly, he hogs Exp and is gay.

Also, McCartney is pretty good too.

[Junkhead]

Listen to CATS, he knows what he's talking about, I was about to mention Ephraim also, but saying he is the best of the game is more proof that you are overrating him, there's also Gerik.

And Duessel? Did you even bother to mention him? Because like Gerik, despite no appearing early he can tak out quite a few enemies in his joining chapter, much like Gerik.

[Florete]

Listen to CATS, he knows what he's talking about, I was about to mention Ephraim also, but saying he is the best of the game is more proof that you are overrating him, there's also Gerik.

And Duessel? Did you even bother to mention him? Because like Gerik, despite no appearing early he can tak out quite a few enemies in his joining chapter, much like Gerik.

CATS was being sarcastic.

Honestly, how can you think any of those units are better? You have Seth for every single map in the game except 5x, he's the best for at least half of them, and still really good for the rest. How can that be anything but the absolute best?

[Junkhead]

CATS was being sarcastic.

Honestly, how can you think any of those units are better? You have Seth for every single map in the game except 5x, he's the best for at least half of them, and still really good for the rest. How can that be anything but the absolute best?

I thought that was only the McCartney part...

But isn't that a bit lazy? I assume none of us are making Seth steal much of the EXP, this isn't FE9/10 where a pre-promoted unit is actually REALLY useful and needed sometimes, he can't even weaken enemies if he kills them.

[Bryan]

CATS was being sarcastic.

Honestly, how can you think any of those units are better? You have Seth for every single map in the game except 5x, he's the best for at least half of them, and still really good for the rest. How can that be anything but the absolute best?

As much as I try not to use Seth, I have to agree. He is the only character that can be arena abused in chapter 5. (Without worring/savestats.)

Besides, we have the Tower. Who cares about stealing EXP?

Edited February 4, 2010 by Bryan

[Junkhead]

The tower ain't viable when we are debating, and the tower also comes after chapter, they are mentioning earlygame utility also, although, I don't see much utility seeing as monsters are easy to kill (exept for Mauthedogs) and enemies aren't HARD enough as to kill your characters with ease.

So now that the tower is unviable, I don't see how's he's going to catch up to being the best unit when the requirement for level ups are going to be killing lots of enemies since he gains around 4 EXP, and that's just a waste since that won't let the chance to train units who will become better (i.e Franz and POSSIBLY Gilliam, only for tanking...).

[Florete]

So now that the tower is unviable, I don't see how's he's going to catch up to being the best unit when the requirement for level ups are going to be killing lots of enemies since he gains around 4 EXP, and that's just a waste since that won't let the chance to train units who will become better (i.e Franz and POSSIBLY Gilliam, only for tanking...).

Ugh. Just read this. I'm not 100% sure who wrote it, but Mekkah posted it.

6.3 Hogging EXP

This point is often used against Seth, Titania and several FE10 units, especially Sothe. They "hog EXP", according to some, and count this as a negative. This couldn't be more wrong - if anything, they are doing the opposite.

Let's say we are comparing Seth and Franz. Seth is a L1 Paladin, while Franz a L1 Cavalier. Some people say that Seth should not get many kills - after all, other units gain more EXP and need this EXP more than Seth. What those making this argument do not realize is that this is not a negative, but more of a positive for Seth. Think about it. Seth "not needing EXP" cannot be a negative for him. It's like saying that Guy not needing a Speedwing while Oswin would like one is a negative for Guy.

Gaining less EXP is not a negative either, it's an effect caused by having a higher level to begin with. Seth pretty much comes with 1900 more EXP than Franz. Seth's lower EXP gains only affect his own growth. The fact that he doesn't gain as much EXP as Franz does is represented by Seth not having improved as much as Franz by giving them the same amount of kills. When both haven't killed anything, Seth's stats are superior. When Franz has killed 10 enemies, he is probably around L4 or L5, but he's still worse than a base level Seth (with 30 EXP or so). Same after 20, 30, 40, etc enemies. Only when Franz is around L18 while Seth is L2 or L3, Franz is starting to become comparable, while he was definitely worse by a lot.

L1 Seth is as good as a L18 Franz off the bat.

Franz isn't as good as Seth until he hits L18.

After reading this, some would still insist that it's better that Seth does not get any kills. However, that is basically handing Seth another advantage: it's showing that he has a secondary method of being used, and apparently this second method is better (I would argue it is not, but that is another story). If "2nd method Seth" > "1st method Seth", and "1st method Seth" > Franz, then it logically follows that "2nd method Seth" >Franz as well. Of course, it won't show that Seth is better than Franz in the stats now when they are compared when Franz has caught up, but the EXP that Seth would have gotten now went to other units on the team, which is another advantage.

Or, in other words, let's compare three teams, and distribute 100 kills among them. Let's say 5 kills is a level on average, except for Seth, who would need 25.

Team A has Seth, Arthur, Lute and Vanessa, and each is given equal amount of kills, so 25.

Team B has Seth, Arthur, Lute and Vanessa, and Seth is only getting 4 kills, while the other 21 are given away to others, giving each of those 25+7=32 kills.

Team C has Franz, Arthur, Lute and Vanessa, and each is given equal amount of kills, so 25.

Team A: L2 Seth, L7 Arthur, L6 Lute, L6 Vanessa.

Team B: L1 Seth, L8 Arthur, L7 Lute, L7 Vanessa

Team C: L6 Franz, L7 Arthur, L6 Lute, L6 Vanessa

Clearly Team A and B are both much stronger than team C, and both A and B have Seth. The non-Seth units on team A are equal to the non-Franz units on team C, and the non-Seth units on team B are clearly beating those of team C.

This argument goes for any prepromote, or any unit that gains less EXP...or actually, for any unit, really. This even goes for FE6/FE7 Marcus, though it should be added that those have a negative effect on the EXP rank. It also goes for units that hit L20 before promotion, such as Eirika and Ephraim.

[Bryan]

The tower ain't viable when we are debating, and the tower also comes after chapter, they are mentioning earlygame utility also, although, I don't see much utility seeing as monsters are easy to kill (exept for Mauthedogs) and enemies aren't HARD enough as to kill your characters with ease.

So now that the tower is unviable, I don't see how's he's going to catch up to being the best unit when the requirement for level ups are going to be killing lots of enemies since he gains around 4 EXP, and that's just a waste since that won't let the chance to train units who will become better (i.e Franz and POSSIBLY Gilliam, only for tanking...).

Seth can solo the whole game. Whats wrong with giving him EXP?

I got Ninja'd by an awesome post. xP

Edited February 5, 2010 by Bryan

[Deliriyum]

As much as I try not to use Seth, I have to agree. He is the only character that can be arena abused in chapter 5. (Without worring/savestats.)

Besides, we have the Tower. Who cares about stealing EXP?

If getting doubled by a silver sword SM and dieing counts as doing well in the arena, then surely I am missing something.

^true story

[Bryan]

If getting doubled by a silver sword SM and dieing counts as doing well in the arena, then surely I am missing something.

^true story

He shouldn't die in two hits. Unless one of those was a crit. But that doesn't happen that often. :/

[Junkhead]

Ugh. Just read this. I'm not 100% sure who wrote it, but Mekkah posted it.

Let's say we are comparing Seth and Franz. Seth is a L1 Paladin, while Franz a L1 Cavalier. Some people say that Seth should not get many kills - after all, other units gain more EXP and need this EXP more than Seth. What those making this argument do not realize is that this is not a negative, but more of a positive for Seth. Think about it. Seth "not needing EXP" cannot be a negative for him. It's like saying that Guy not needing a Speedwing while Oswin would like one is a negative for Guy.

Gaining less EXP is not a negative either, it's an effect caused by having a higher level to begin with. Seth pretty much comes with 1900 more EXP than Franz. Seth's lower EXP gains only affect his own growth. The fact that he doesn't gain as much EXP as Franz does is represented by Seth not having improved as much as Franz by giving them the same amount of kills. When both haven't killed anything, Seth's stats are superior. When Franz has killed 10 enemies, he is probably around L4 or L5, but he's still worse than a base level Seth (with 30 EXP or so). Same after 20, 30, 40, etc enemies. Only when Franz is around L18 while Seth is L2 or L3, Franz is starting to become comparable, while he was definitely worse by a lot.

Hmm...I know Seth is stronger earlygame, but how is he so useful THERE? You know, since it actualyl makes it just TOO easy to use him there, Eirika has decent Avo against earlygame axe users, she could could weaken them so Franz kills them, then vice-versa by Franz weakening them and Eirika getting the kill.

It's hogging EXP in this game only because it's easier than FE7's normal mode, the units are slightly better too, but now that I read that Seth doesn't "hog" EXP, it's still doubtable for him to be good around mid game unless you train him by getting that EXP he requires, and that's just prohibiting others from getting it.

Now, if we talked about someone like Titania in FE9, she isn't much of an EXP hogger since there are more enemies even in Normal Mode, they also gain more EXP and she actually IS useful when enemies like soldiers aren't a joke with +0 Def/Spd/Skill.

[Anouleth]

Hmm...I know Seth is stronger earlygame, but how is he so useful THERE? You know, since it actualyl makes it just TOO easy to use him there, Eirika has decent Avo against earlygame axe users, she could could weaken them so Franz kills them, then vice-versa by Franz weakening them and Eirika getting the kill.

It's hogging EXP in this game only because it's easier than FE7's normal mode, the units are slightly better too, but now that I read that Seth doesn't "hog" EXP, it's still doubtable for him to be good around mid game unless you train him by getting that EXP he requires, and that's just prohibiting others from getting it.

Now, if we talked about someone like Titania in FE9, she isn't much of an EXP hogger since there are more enemies even in Normal Mode, they also gain more EXP and she actually IS useful when enemies like soldiers aren't a joke with +0 Def/Spd/Skill.

The game is never too easy. You know why people say FE8 is a joke? Seth.

Giving exp to any unit means you can't give that exp to another unit. So if we give Seth 10 kills worth of exp and Franz 10 kills of exp, they are taking up exactly the same resource. Of course, it's debatable whether taking kill exp is even something that should be assigned a cost, since killing enemies is still helpful for the team.

And actually, Titania is taking exactly the same thing that Seth is - EXP. The difference is that Titania is only above-average in Endgame, while Seth is always good.

[Junkhead]

Nope, Titania actually gets more than 4 EXP on normal mode...

And FE8 isn't a joke because of Seth, it's a joke even when not using pre-promotes, that's why it's a joke.

[Bryan]

Nope, Titania actually gets more than 4 EXP on normal mode...

And FE8 isn't a joke because of Seth, it's a joke even when not using pre-promotes, that's why it's a joke.

The problem is that you have so many good units. :/

[Junkhead]

Exactly, so relative to the game Seth isn't the best. It HAS to be Ephraim, I mean...he could take Tirado unpromoted quite easily with his personal weapon.

[Candlejack]

You do know that Seth gets, like, one level up a pop in the arena, right? And this is before the route split.

[Junkhead]

Dude, arena abusing is not even considered in debates! And what the hell, I thought you like Duessel, even I like him best.

[Candlejack]

I like Duessel best. That doesn't delude me into thinking he is better.

[Junkhead]

WTA + High ATK ain't bad, you know, he usually doubles cavaliers with there lol4-5 AS due to steel lances.

[Luftwaffe]

Dude, arena abusing is not even considered in debates! And what the hell, I thought you like Duessel, even I like him best.

The arena is there. You might as well have a few free units get some money and exp rather than doing nothing.