Lugh vs Lilina

[Galenforcer]

Ok, I'll say this. I use either depending if Lugh gets screwed in levels and use Lilina to replace him. Then pick up the other for chapter 23 to raise experience rank. There, that simple. PEMN, but my Lugh turned out horrid in my recent hard mode playthrough. Couldn't double shit except endgame dragons and we all know how fast they are, dies too fast and his chip damage wasn't enough to keep him going.

[Jaybee]

As I usually use slower, but more powerful units in FE(or is it just me), I would have to side with the Lilina fans here. Think about this way, I'd rather do a single 20 damage an enemy than double and do 13 damage.

20 > 26 now?

[Rewjeo]

Because taking longer to kill units is clearly better.

[Narga_Rocks]

Actually, if Lilina would just have better skill I could prefer her over Lugh. Lugh isn't exactly a speed-demon. Sure, he may end up doubling, but he also might not end up doubling particularly much. And it's not like he's ORKOing anyway because of his low magic. And he'll almost never double bosses (at least on HM). That's the thing. With Lilina's low skill she'll have terrible accuracy on bosses (even with 85 hit Aircalibur). Particularly on thrones, Lugh will rarely even reach double-digits on bosses. Lilina shouldn't have that problem after long. If she's ORKOing armors (and Lugh may not actually manage this) and giving a powerful single hit, that's arguably better than Lugh maybe doubling a few other enemies but not ORKOing them anyway.

My problem with Lilina is her bases. Her base weapon rank is actually good enough, though. It's her magic base and skill growth that I hate. Start her at level 5 (and give her a 40 or 45% skill growth) with adjusted bases and I think it would be okay.

Back to her accuracy, granted if you get a Roy support and a Gonzales support, AB gives her +20 hit. But even a B Roy takes 16 adjacents. Furthermore I don't actually see a good alternative for Alan and Lance aside from B Roy. You could perhaps argue that a B Roy with them takes so much work that you should settle for Cs and let Roy get ACC, maybe. It's still a lot of mediocre to go through just to get a character that still isn't actually all that good.

Level 5, 45% skill growth, I pick Lilina. As it is, I pick Lugh.

Edited August 9, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Junkhead]

Actually, if Lilina would just have better skill I could prefer her over Lugh. Lugh isn't exactly a speed-demon. Sure, he may end up doubling, but he also might not end up doubling particularly much. And it's not like he's ORKOing anyway because of his low magic. And he'll almost never double bosses (at least on HM). That's the thing. With Lilina's low skill she'll have terrible accuracy on bosses (even with 85 hit Aircalibur). Particularly on thrones, Lugh will rarely even reach double-digits on bosses. Lilina shouldn't have that problem after long. If she's ORKOing armors (and Lugh may not actually manage this) and giving a powerful single hit, that's arguably better than Lugh maybe doubling a few other enemies but not ORKOing them anyway.

My problem with Lilina is her bases. Her base weapon rank is actually good enough, though. It's her magic base and skill growth that I hate. Start her at level 5 (and give her a 40 or 45% skill growth) with adjusted bases and I think it would be okay.

Back to her accuracy, granted if you get a Roy support and a Gonzales support, AB gives her +20 hit. But even a B Roy takes 16 adjacents. Furthermore I don't actually see a good alternative for Alan and Lance aside from B Roy. You could perhaps argue that a B Roy with them takes so much work that you should settle for Cs and let Roy get ACC, maybe. It's still a lot of mediocre to go through just to get a character that still isn't actually all that good.

Level 5, 45% skill growth, I pick Lilina. As it is, I pick Lugh.

Her problems were never Hit. I mean, why would you ever be putting her up to bosses in the first place? They usually have 2-range, and getting her up to the middle of the map, where there are many enemies is enough of a problem. Spd is her problem. She doesn't want to double, but instead, actually avoid getting doubled and 1HKO'd by some enemies.

Lugh's 4 chapters is an advantage, he has much more time to raise himself, and become decent by the time he promotes. The only thing Lilina has going for her is 1RKO'ing Knight she is able to double. And the latter just means she'll be missing on doubling many Knights.

[riariadne]

Fact is, Lugh might end up doubling some guys, but Lilina never will.

[Narga_Rocks]

Her problems were never Hit. I mean, why would you ever be putting her up to bosses in the first place? They usually have 2-range, and getting her up to the middle of the map, where there are many enemies is enough of a problem. Spd is her problem. She doesn't want to double, but instead, actually avoid getting doubled and 1HKO'd by some enemies.

Lugh's 4 chapters is an advantage, he has much more time to raise himself, and become decent by the time he promotes. The only thing Lilina has going for her is 1RKO'ing Knight she is able to double. And the latter just means she'll be missing on doubling many Knights.

Fact is, Lugh might end up doubling some guys, but Lilina never will.

The key here is "might". If you aren't aggressive with his leveling, he'll likely have trouble doubling anyway. At that point, if Lilina had started at level 5 she might be able to compete due to more damage on the rest of the enemies.

Oh, and soul, did you skip over the part where I wanted to start her at level 5?

As for bosses, they don't all have 1-2 range, and even those that do don't always have it equipped. Also, if you are willing to point out that Lilina/Lugh may never reach the boss due to going too fast, you should also consider that Lugh will never have the opportunity to get the kills needed to even start doubling more than simply armours. Which Lilina can get anyway if she starts at level 5 and you use her. And she might one day ORKO them. So pick your poison, really, since if you consider bosses then a more accurate Lilina would do a fair amount of damage (more than anyone that isn't like Dieck or a Rutger crit or something like that) to bosses and Lugh has trouble. Particularly because thrones give +5 res. Gates don't, and I think some other boss terrain doesn't, but thrones do.

Edited August 30, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Anouleth]

The key here is "might". If you aren't aggressive with his leveling, he'll likely have trouble doubling anyway. At that point, if Lilina had started at level 5 she might be able to compete due to more damage on the rest of the enemies.

Oh, and soul, did you skip over the part where I wanted to start her at level 5?

As for bosses, they don't all have 1-2 range, and even those that do don't always have it equipped. Also, if you are willing to point out that Lilina/Lugh may never reach the boss due to going too fast, you should also consider that Lugh will never have the opportunity to get the kills needed to even start doubling more than simply armours. Which Lilina can get anyway if she starts at level 5 and you use her. And she might one day ORKO them. So pick your poison, really, since if you consider bosses then a more accurate Lilina would do a fair amount of damage (more than anyone that isn't like Dieck or a Rutger crit or something like that) to bosses and Lugh has trouble. Particularly because thrones give +5 res. Gates don't, and I think some other boss terrain doesn't, but thrones do.

All bosses are on Gates or Thrones in this game, right?

[Trueblade]

Lugh has speed, that's for sure, as well as a 15 (?) percent crit bonus with an A support with Chad. But Lilina has insane Magic and a proportional (IIRC) support with Roy, sooooo if you use Speedwings on Lilina, she can be better, although you get Lugh very early in the game. I usually just use both of them.

[Narga_Rocks]

All bosses are on Gates or Thrones in this game, right?

And yet only one of those has +5 res. (throne)

And it's possible that they are all on those. I thought maybe one or two could have been on something else but probably not.

Anyway, what bothers me about Lilina is that her bases are so terrible and it takes a long time before she even manages to do more damage per shot than Lugh (as in, by the time she shows up Lugh probably leveled enough to get a mag lead on her and he'll match her C anima rank). And he can actually double some things depending on his level. She's not Sofiya-bad, or anything, but it's still rather annoying.

[Junkhead]

Oh, and soul, did you skip over the part where I wanted to start her at level 5?

As for bosses, they don't all have 1-2 range, and even those that do don't always have it equipped. Also, if you are willing to point out that Lilina/Lugh may never reach the boss due to going too fast, you should also consider that Lugh will never have the opportunity to get the kills needed to even start doubling more than simply armours. Which Lilina can get anyway if she starts at level 5 and you use her. And she might one day ORKO them. So pick your poison, really, since if you consider bosses then a more accurate Lilina would do a fair amount of damage (more than anyone that isn't like Dieck or a Rutger crit or something like that) to bosses and Lugh has trouble. Particularly because thrones give +5 res. Gates don't, and I think some other boss terrain doesn't, but thrones do.

@Bolded: I did. But that was probably to assume she will be doubling the slowest enemies or, making the journey to lvl 20 easier? Because she won't double anything with 5 AS. It might make her chip a little better, but that's about it. Not much of an advantage on Lugh. Lugh has what you're looking for, which is Hit. All Lugh really seems to need is an Energy Drop. He's just begging for one and for Atk-boosting supports.

Edited August 31, 2010 by The Leaving Song

[Narga_Rocks]

@Bolded: I did. But that was probably to assume she will be doubling the slowest enemies or, making the journey to lvl 20 easier? Because she won't double anything with 5 AS. It might make her chip a little better, but that's about it. Not much of an advantage on Lugh. Lugh has what you're looking for, which is Hit. All Lugh really seems to need is an Energy Drop. He's just begging for one and for Atk-boosting supports.

Level 5 Lilina has 8 magic. Level 10 Lugh has 7.6. Good luck getting Lugh to level 10 this quickly (mid-chapter 8). Also, armors tend to have 0 or 1 AS for a while, and level 5 Lilina has 5.4 spd. And even when they get 2 speed, it's still only 2 levels away. A level 5 starting Lilina wouldn't be much worse than Lugh, if at all.

Then consider that level 9 Lugh only has 10 speed anyway, and lots of enemies have 7 or more starting in 8x (or maybe that's starting in 9). Lilina's harder hitting would actually be helpful, and as she levels it will get better and better. I just didn't find Lugh to actually be doubling particularly much because he just didn't level fast enough. If you go slow and let him gain levels I suppose he'll beat even the boosted Lilina, but if you don't the only reason he beats her originally is because of her sucky bases. The lvl 5 Lilina with better skill will actually be fairly competitive with Lugh because Lugh is constantly borderline at best for most significant doubling. As it is, though, Lugh crushes her because of her low base level.

Granted, Lilina would probably benefit from a 6 spd base rather than 5 spd. I think iron lance soldiers often have 2 AS in chapter 8. Though she probably won't ever meet them anyway I guess.

Oh, and Lugh's supports aren't nearly as fast as Lilina's and Chad also doesn't really deserve deployment for most of his life. Roy is forced. Lugh doesn't have any other meaningful supports (Ray is worse, Ellen is slow to get, Hugh and Miledy are even worse to try). Lilina at least gets Roy and Gonzo. Lilina can get as much as +25 crit and +4 atk. She even manages to get 3 defence if it matters (well, it might help with res).

[RNG Princess]

I like both but I hardly use Lilina, but personally I prefer Ray and Sofia over these guys.

[Gnomeslayer45]

On 8/9/2010 at 1:20 PM, Narga_Rocks said:

Actually, if Lilina would just have better skill I could prefer her over Lugh. Lugh isn't exactly a speed-demon. Sure, he may end up doubling, but he also might not end up doubling particularly much. And it's not like he's ORKOing anyway because of his low magic. And he'll almost never double bosses (at least on HM). That's the thing. With Lilina's low skill she'll have terrible accuracy on bosses (even with 85 hit Aircalibur). Particularly on thrones, Lugh will rarely even reach double-digits on bosses. Lilina shouldn't have that problem after long. If she's ORKOing armors (and Lugh may not actually manage this) and giving a powerful single hit, that's arguably better than Lugh maybe doubling a few other enemies but not ORKOing them anyway.

My problem with Lilina is her bases. Her base weapon rank is actually good enough, though. It's her magic base and skill growth that I hate. Start her at level 5 (and give her a 40 or 45% skill growth) with adjusted bases and I think it would be okay.

Back to her accuracy, granted if you get a Roy support and a Gonzales support, AB gives her +20 hit. But even a B Roy takes 16 adjacents. Furthermore I don't actually see a good alternative for Alan and Lance aside from B Roy. You could perhaps argue that a B Roy with them takes so much work that you should settle for Cs and let Roy get ACC, maybe. It's still a lot of mediocre to go through just to get a character that still isn't actually all that good.

Level 5, 45% skill growth, I pick Lilina. As it is, I pick Lugh.

Skill does not matter for anima mages in fe 6. the only tome that ive almost ever seen miss is thunder because it has the lowest hit for any anima tome besides bolting. lilina also has a 75% magic growth compared to lughs 40%, so she will have almost double his magic. lugh also has a 50% speed growth, compared to lilinas 35% this means roughly lugh will have 3 more speed for every 20 levels. because of this lilina will be a very potent early-mid game staff unit even if you promote her at lvl 10. also lilina will have much more res than lugh making her an ideal magic tank which will be especially useful for pinnacle of light or chapter 16x for baiting out the berserk staff as its hit is based on res instead of speed. also lilina has the fastest support in the game with roy, and because you have to deploy him on every chapter essentialy granteing her 3 magic 1 defence 15 accuracy 7 avoid and 15 critical. lugh will not cap any stat without stat boosters unless he levels up speed more than 60 % of the time while lilina can easily cap both magic and res quite easily.

[Gamer1234556]

In NM, they are probably interchangeable.

In HM, Lugh wins. He has more than enough availability to overshadow Lilina's awful bases.

EDIT: Wtf? Why did I post on a thread that is about 5 years ago?

Edited January 5, 2018 by Gamer1234556

[Tenzen12]

Lugh might be better, but I will never know for sure. He hits like wet noodle so he is really pain in ass to level, where Lilina kills people from get to go. Being able one-shot dangerous enemies with Bolting and tank enemy magic is also is pretty useful.

Raigh is not that great unit either, and I don't really see much point field either brother much less both, just to get their support.