Fire Emblem 4 - Shin Patch

[Celice]

that mean the victory goes to the new blood--oldies only win once!

[GreatEclipse]

I just wanted to say thank you for putting this patch out there. I gave this game a try about a week ago, and its lack of challenge and general balancing problems were apparent before the end of the first map, both of which your modifications improved dramatically.

[Shin]

I'm really glad to hear that! There might be a few rough patches but hopefully nothing's too cruel. I should really stop trying to leave traps for Horace in there

[GreatEclipse]

If I can make just two suggestions, based on what I have played so far:

1) Some of the bosses feel extremely cheap. Giving the ones on thrones +Killer weapons just creates frustration, because the game, to my knowledge, gives you no way to reduce critical rates. The problem is made worse by them being 1-2 range, and enemies apparently being able to switch weapons in the middle of enemy phase (Not sure if you can modify a game mechanic like that, however). Also, the General mini-boss in chapter 2 is brutal enough by himself, but the 18% chance his ability gives him of negating any damage you do to him only results in loading save-states to ensure every hit lands, since he needs to be dead by the end of the turn after he advances if you want any chance of everyone on your team coming out of the next enemy phase alive.

2) Magic using units should all be given 6 move at base. They simply cannot keep up in a game with maps this big, were even a 1 move difference really starts to add up. This would be less of a problem if the game had a rescue feature, but again, I do not know if you can just modify game mechanics at will.

Edited April 22, 2012 by GreatEclipse

[Anouleth]

It seems like it's impossible to keep the Nodion Paladins alive without absurd luck (since they face such high hit rates).

Also, Dew's map bow animation is bugged.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Anouleth

[Shin]

NOTE: Some animations are a little funny. Plus, map animations aren't recommended! Do not complain about these, unless you know how to fix them.

I would if I could.

The Nodion Paladins are another story, to the fix mobile!

[General Horace]

I dunno how good of an idea this is, but maybe give the nodion idiots life rings to extend their survivability? I haven't played it in a while, but I also remember not being able to save them. Life/Defence rings might make things too easy though.

[Anouleth]

I dunno how good of an idea this is, but maybe give the nodion idiots life rings to extend their survivability? I haven't played it in a while, but I also remember not being able to save them. Life/Defence rings might make things too easy though.

look I just don't want them to die automatically on turn 4 with basically no chance of survival. Maybe he could have an axe or something for WTA against all the lance cavs because right now he has WTD and gets ruined pretty easily by them.

[General Horace]

and would a defence ring not help those odds?

[GreatEclipse]

Okay, I am currently halfway into chapter 3, and I simply cannot beat Eltshan. His 16 AS is too high even for Sigurd, with a +5 Speed ring, to double with the Silver Lance, and if he switches to a sword his hit rate drops to below 60. He would be almost manageable if it was not for his Ambush skill and his weapon boosting critical, which turns the whole thing into a game of save-state loading to change your attack order for that turn in as many ways as you can. I suppose I could restart the whole chapter so I can give Sigurd the Horse-slayer (Fin currently has it, but he does only 6 damage. I hate the lack of a trade function), but even then, he survives with 26 HP (A huge number when you already have 25 DEF and 30 RES).

[epilepsyduck]

Okay, I am currently halfway into chapter 3, and I simply cannot beat Eltshan. His 16 AS is too high even for Sigurd, with a +5 Speed ring, to double with the Silver Lance, and if he switches to a sword his hit rate drops to below 60. He would be almost manageable if it was not for his Ambush skill and his weapon boosting critical, which turns the whole thing into a game of save-state loading to change your attack order for that turn in as many ways as you can. I suppose I could restart the whole chapter so I can give Sigurd the Horse-slayer (Fin currently has it, but he does only 6 damage. I hate the lack of a trade function), but even then, he survives with 26 HP (A huge number when you already have 25 DEF and 30 RES).

Technically, you aren't supposed to fight Eltshan. You're supposed to have Lachesis speak with him and convince him to retreat. This is actually the best way to do things, because then he gives Lachesis the Earth Sword, and his leadership stars stop affecting those pesky Cross Knights of his.

Anyway, I've been enjoying this patch immensely, it fixed almost everything that I disliked about the original that prevented me from finishing it. My only real gripe is that mages have such a hard time keeping up with everyone else. That low movement was okay in Path of Radiance and Shadow Dragon, but here it does nothing but make leveling them a pain in the ass. It's not as bad for healers because of the Libro staff and the fact they don't need to be on the front lines to be useful, but for characters like Azel and Tailto it's just irritating, especially because they aren't the only ranged fighters in the party.

Edited April 23, 2012 by whenbananasattack

[GreatEclipse]

Technically, you aren't supposed to fight Eltshan. You're supposed to have Lachesis speak with him and convince him to retreat. This is actually the best way to do things, because then he gives Lachesis the Earth Sword, and his leadership stars stop affecting those pesky Cross Knights of his.

I figured that if Sigurd could not get him to back down, no one could. Still, thank you very much for telling me that.

[Darros]

Still, Eltshan shouldn't be unbeatable, just very challenging.

[Anouleth]

Technically, you aren't supposed to fight Eltshan. You're supposed to have Lachesis speak with him and convince him to retreat. This is actually the best way to do things, because then he gives Lachesis the Earth Sword, and his leadership stars stop affecting those pesky Cross Knights of his.

Anyway, I've been enjoying this patch immensely, it fixed almost everything that I disliked about the original that prevented me from finishing it. My only real gripe is that mages have such a hard time keeping up with everyone else. That low movement was okay in Path of Radiance and Shadow Dragon, but here it does nothing but make leveling them a pain in the ass. It's not as bad for healers because of the Libro staff and the fact they don't need to be on the front lines to be useful, but for characters like Azel and Tailto it's just irritating, especially because they aren't the only ranged fighters in the party.

I don't think that Azel is really so bad off. The enemies aren't so easy that your mounted units curbstomp them really easily. At least, I haven't seen Azel really drop behind in level.

[Refa]

Okay, I am currently halfway into chapter 3, and I simply cannot beat Eltshan. His 16 AS is too high even for Sigurd, with a +5 Speed ring, to double with the Silver Lance, and if he switches to a sword his hit rate drops to below 60. He would be almost manageable if it was not for his Ambush skill and his weapon boosting critical, which turns the whole thing into a game of save-state loading to change your attack order for that turn in as many ways as you can. I suppose I could restart the whole chapter so I can give Sigurd the Horse-slayer (Fin currently has it, but he does only 6 damage. I hate the lack of a trade function), but even then, he survives with 26 HP (A huge number when you already have 25 DEF and 30 RES).

Isn't it like that in the original?

I haven't gotten this far in Shin Patch but why can't you just Sigurd Sword crit him or bombard him with ranged attacks?

[epilepsyduck]

Hm, maybe I'm just trying to move too fast. Still, while the low movement didn't hurt them as much as it hurt Ardan in the original, it's still an arbitrary and unnecessary handicap that limits their ability to keep up with everyone until they promote. Although, to be fair, Azel's promotion totally makes up for his terrible movement prepromotion.

[Anouleth]

Isn't it like that in the original?

I haven't gotten this far in Shin Patch but why can't you just Sigurd Sword crit him or bombard him with ranged attacks?

What do you mean, Sigurd Sword?

[General Horace]

Sigurd's Silver Sword.

Although if you're using the entire party its extremely unlikely that it'll have crit on it by this point.

[Anouleth]

Sigurd's Silver Sword.

Although if you're using the entire party its extremely unlikely that it'll have crit on it by this point.

Seems easier just to shove Ethlin and Cuan next to him...

[Shin]

Elty's not actually any stonger than he was in Vanilla. But I guess Ambush is too cruel, Prayer will suffice instead.

I'm also feeling mean! Time to nerf some Holy Weapons!

[Anouleth]

You should probably fix the chapter 1 map before you do anything.

Also, Voltz in Chapter 2 has a nasty tendency to try and head south and kill Levin, because now he takes normal forest penalties. Could you fix that?

Edited April 24, 2012 by Anouleth

[Shin]

You should probably fix the chapter 1 map before you do anything.

Also, Voltz in Chapter 2 has a nasty tendency to try and head south and kill Levin, because now he takes normal forest penalties. Could you fix that?

The chapter 1 map will be revisited. The only reason it's pretty shoddy right now is that the old FE4 map editor didn't like undoing stuff. It's on my to-do list. I'll look into Voltz too, could you supply me a save file?

[Airship Canon]

Also, the General mini-boss in chapter 2 is brutal enough by himself, but the 18% chance his ability gives him of negating any damage you do to him only results in loading save-states to ensure every hit lands, since he needs to be dead by the end of the turn after he advances if you want any chance of everyone on your team coming out of the next enemy phase alive.

Play a bit more defensively. True, he can respawn his troops, but he runs away if you wipe out said troops.

Also, Voltz in Chapter 2 has a nasty tendency to try and head south and kill Levin, because now he takes normal forest penalties. Could you fix that?

Whoa. That's a bug?

I just had Levin run like a ***** and brought my army in to brawl with them.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Airship Canon

[Anouleth]

Play a bit more defensively. True, he can respawn his troops, but he runs away if you wipe out said troops.

I'd like to add for the benefit of Balcerzak that the Slim Sword is now effective against Armours and cavalry. I found that Sigurd could actually ORKO Philip with the Slim Sword.

I guess it's not really evident that you can do that. I didn't figure out that the Slim Sword could do that until Chapter 2... perhaps a rename to Rapier or Estoc is in order?

Whoa. That's a bug?

I just had Levin run like a ***** and brought my army in to brawl with them.

Well, I can protect Levin, but I do care about turncount and it's a massive pain to hold off on capturing Anphony and truding through forest. It's like vanilla Chapter 1 all over again. Plus it doesn't really make sense. Macbeth hires all these mercenaries and instead of actually defending his castle they run off into the forest? It makes seizing Anphony rather easy, too.

[epilepsyduck]

Well, I can protect Levin, but I do care about turncount and it's a massive pain to hold off on capturing Anphony and truding through forest. It's like vanilla Chapter 1 all over again. Plus it doesn't really make sense. Macbeth hires all these mercenaries and instead of actually defending his castle they run off into the forest? It makes seizing Anphony rather easy, too.

GUYS LET'S TAKE THE MONEY AND SCRAM.

Truly, it's rather annoying to have to go trudging through forests and waiting for the enemy to slowly slog their way towards you, since only Voltz has decent movement in there out of his whole squad. And I don't think they went dashing off into the woods in vanilla, either, so I'm wondering what exactly caused them to think it was such a great idea this time around.

Edited April 25, 2012 by whenbananasattack