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Karel showed up instead of Harken.

39 posts in this topic

I only killed two promoted enemies (unless thieves count for some reason); the general and the top-left sniper, and opened 1 door, yet Karel still shows up. Of course, I could just start over, but really I'm curious as to why this happened. I double-checked a few sources, and they all coincide with the idea that if you kill less than 3 promoted enemies and open fewer than 4 doors, then Harken will show up on turn 9. He doesn't.

Anyway I think I'll go ahead and play with Karel since this I screwed up this PT a couple ways already anyway. Here's some screens if anyone is interested. I think it's intriguing.

post-1371-026674500 1294805341_thumb.jpg

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To be honest, whenever I get that bishop's level(for the life of me I can't remember his name...)Karel always shows up instead of Harken. And Jerme's I always see Harken. And I never hit the requirements for Karel ever. So... It might be the chapter, might be wrong.

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I've also seen that it's based on character levels. If Raven, Guy, Bartre, and Dorcas outrank Lucius, Erk, Serra, and Priscilla, you get the version of the chapter with Jerme, and Harken will appear. If the combined level of the magic users is higher or equal, you get Kenneth's map, and will be able to recruit Karel.

I'm pretty sure that it's correct. That explanation has never been wrong in my experience.

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You killed the mage with bolting, didn't you?

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You have to leave either that sniper or that general alive. Since the general and his knight cohort charge at you starting turn 1 (unless you use a Light Rune on the chokepoint), just ignore the sniper.

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You can recruit both units in both versions of the chapter. However it's easier to get whichever unit you want in Kenneth's map, in my opinion.

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never got kenneths map how do you get it?

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I'm guessing if you want Light Brand, Brave Sword and Harken, you get Jerme, and if you want Aura, Wo Dao and Karel, you get Kenneth. I guess it's impossible to get Karel on Jerme or Harken on Kenneth.

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I'm guessing if you want Light Brand, Brave Sword and Harken, you get Jerme, and if you want Aura, Wo Dao and Karel, you get Kenneth. I guess it's impossible to get Karel on Jerme or Harken on Kenneth.

You are wrong. You can get either or them in both maps. For Karel, defeat 2 or more promoted enemies in Kenneth's version, or open 4+ doors in Jerme's version. For Harken, defeat 0 or 1 promoted enemies in Kenneth's version, or open less than 4 doors in Jerme's.

I mean, come on, it's on the main site.

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Why would you want Harken anyway? Go for the homicidal sociopath!

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Why would you want Harken anyway?

Let's see here...

Better base stats.

More people can recruit him (Eliwood, Hector, Oswin, Marcus, Lowen, Isadora) as opposed to Karel (who can only recruited by Lyndis and the main lord).

Better support list.

An arguably better personality.

He can use axes whereas Karel can't. (And doesn't need a magic sword for indirect attack.)

And, oh yeah! Access to the Brave Sword.

Edited by LittleAl

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Why would you want Harken anyway? Go for the homicidal sociopath!

Harken isn't going to rape and murder my units.

Also, he's a better unit.

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Hard mode Harken is 100% superior to Karel. Normal mode is easy enough that I really don't care who I get.

This, pretty much.

Harken's base strength is only 2 away from capping, and his 18 SPD means he can double many enemies. 42 HP and 16 DEF is nothing to laugh at defensively, and he has 2-range in Hand Axes. He can also use heavier weapons that Karel cannot without losing SPD, like the Brave Sword and the common Steel Sword.

And of course, the Brave Sword is awesome too. That STR and 4x attacks puts big dents in enemies.

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meh, just admit that you guys hate swordmasters.

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meh, just admit that you guys hate swordmasters.

I can't speak for everyone else, but...

It's not that I hate swordmasters. It's that I like heroes more.

Edited by Paper Jam

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meh, just admit that you guys hate swordmasters.

And just how exactly does saying "Karel is inferior to Harken in basically every way" make us "hate" swordmasters? I can think up at least a dozen examples why that logic doesn't work. I happen to like the Swordmaster class myself, even though there are those that are less than stellar (like Karel and Karla for instance), and I can even admit that much. There's a difference between liking or hating a unit and knowing what's what about a unit.

Edited by LittleAl

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I'd be happier to get Karel than Harken so I wouldn't complain.

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Personally(and factually), I think(and know)Harken is the better unit, though some people already mentioned this. Here is my say on the matter(and an expansion of Little AI's reasons for Harken>>>Karel):

Better base stats.

You are definitely right on that one. Harken has minor to crushing wins in crucial stats, because I honestly do not think that Karel's minor wins(1skl/2spd/3lck/1res)do not outweigh Harken's massive 11HP/7str/3def/2con lead. Also, Harken has (slightly) better growths than Karel(wins everything except skl/spd/lck).

More people can recruit him(Eliwood, Hector, Oswin, Marcus, Lowen, Isadora) as opposed to Karel (who can only recruited by Lyndis and the main lord).

Again, Harken has more flexibility in regards to who can talk to him(you can just leave one of the guys you mentioned near his spawn point while your other dudes go after Kenneth/Germ), whereas Karel is shit out of luck if Lyn wasn't deployed/on the other end of the map and Hector is on the other end of the map.

Better support list.

Harken has Karel beat there as well. Karel supports with people that either have their support slots filled(Guy, Trap, Dart), simply take too long(everybody in his support pool except Karla), or just suck as a unit and join too late(Karla). Harken can support with Eli or Lowen if their support slots aren't full already(in most cases, they are.), as well as make Isadora a bit more usable(not to mention it's a fairly fast support.)

An arguably better personality.

If being an Astram ripoff is better than being a famed mercenary that kills with no remorse in your world, then I have no comment.

He can use axes whereas Karel can't.(And doesn't need a magic sword for indirect attack.)

This is yet another advantage for Harken. Hand axes are cheap(like 15 gold per use), and can be easily bought, and can even use Kaim's tomahawk once he reaches A axes(granted, its 200G per use), and can do so with minimal to no loss to his AS. Karel has to make due with Light Brands, which are quite rare(the first one you get is a hidden item in LL, and you may or may not get another in PFoD) and cost more than 3 times per use. And don't let me get started on Runeswords, which only show up in VoL, cost over 200 gold per use, and halves his str regardless of whether he's attacking directly or not. That and there's the fact that Karel is facing constant WTD from armors and wyverns unless he uses a lancereaver.

And, oh yeah! Access to the Brave Sword.

Even if you are just recruiting Harken/Karel for their item, Harken still beats Karel in that department. Harken's Brave sword can be slapped on anybody with a B rank in swords or higher(in 70% of cases, Raven), whereas Karel's Wo Dao can only be used by himself, Guy, and Lyn.

Edited by darkandroid125

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So... you just summed up what everyone said earlier... gotcha.

(and "meh, just admit you don't like swordmasters" meant "Yeah, I get it, I'm just trying to turn it back on you and be a noob idiot in the process.")

I just like swordmasters better. higher crit rate. always liked them.

I swear, guy's a beast.

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You mean Guy is a beast, or you saying "guy's a beast", referring to Karel?

Edited by VanguardRaven

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meh, just admit that you guys hate swordmasters.

I like SMs and I can admit Harken is better. I like Karel better than Harken. And still, I don't hide behind bias.

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I love how seriously everyone is taking this.

On topic: Pick whichever one you like better.

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