Mikey Séregon

Fire Emblem - Crossover Hack 2.0

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All of that shading scares me. Can we have original Seth and Rath back?

... yeah. Reluctantly agreeing with Seph here...

Doesn't feel like "revamping" at all for Seth and Rath. The skin color shades don't flow smoothly.

Putting that Rath and the "stock Lyn" mug together makes the change in style obvious.

Edgeworth's neck also has "wtf is that" issue with the lightest shade. No matter how I turn my head, it doesn't make sense.

Edited by shadowofchaos

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Well, actually they were made based on their artworks:

http://fireemblemblog.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/rath.jpg

http://moe.animecharactersdatabase.com/images/FireEmblem/Seth.jpg

I think they look a bit scary because of FE8's colors...

I like them the only potential problem I see is mixing Fe6/7 and 8 colors in a hack. But it's your hack so it's your decision.

I'll change all colors to FE8's ones.

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No, this has nothing to do with FE6/7/8 colors. Seth's hair is seriously overshaded.

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Hair is still seriously overshaded. Check Seth's regular mug for reference. Notice how there's a lot less shading on his hair? Changing poses is one thing, but make sure the shading makes sense if you do!

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The face is also absurdly pillow-shaded. Furthermore, the light source doesn't even make sense. The right pauldron and right part of the collar are lit, yet the center plate of the armor has the light source coming from the left. Using Phoenix Wright's terminology, this is a contradiction.

I understand that style is one thing in a work of art and is very hard to change, but I think that your spriter/artist needs to take a step back and compare his works to what Intelligent Systems has already done. Yes, their work often jumps around between "This is normal." and "Was the spriter drunk when making this?"; however, most of the portraits in this definitely need some form of improvement, mostly in the shading department.

Edited by Lord Glenn

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My graphic designer consider your critics, but sometimes you are rude...

To me, her works look good, I'm not perfectionist, but if it look good, is enough for me, I don't care in the small details because I'm not good on Art XP

Also:

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I like the new concept of Seth. However, I find the shading messy, especially on the trim and the hair, though the hair has improved from its first stage.

I actually like Eph's new face but please give him his old hair colour back.

Also Tana's eyes are really awkward.

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The line work on a lot of these is really good, as is the idea to base them off the OAs. It's just the shading, overall, that's very poor.

And Tana's overly huge eye.

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My graphic designer consider your critics, but sometimes you are rude..

Seph is rude. It's a fact. And it shows.

Lord Glenn's is proper critique. If your artist can't take that... then they won't improve.

Seth's armor outright looks like it's has dents and dings all over the place, most obviously on his left (our right) shoulder plate.

Tana's hair isn't hair. It's a bunch of leathery tubes. If you're planning on "Revamping" mugs... you'd better revamp all of them, because frankly, if you put these mugs right next to the actual FE style mugs... you get a result like this:

Letmeshowyou.png

Frankly... I'm fine with not having expectations of perfectly recreating FE style sprites... but they need serious cleaning up. Especially if you compare the neck down... the pillow shading looks plain horrible.

Ephraim's left shoulder (Our right)...

The fact that I have to tilt my head all over the place... and I still don't get how that shading or shape works... Also, his "cloth" that he has... using two shades... makes it the flatest piece of cloth I have EVER seen. From what I saw on the sprite when I looked at the index on GIMP... you have one more shade available. Use it. Using the outline color for the darkest shade for his cloth is a BAD idea.

Having stuff make sense is about the details in the shading... but for it to have actual appeal... it also needs to survive the first glance "Does it make sense?". Ephraim's doesn't clearly do that.

Edited by shadowofchaos

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The line work on a lot of these is really good, as is the idea to base them off the OAs. It's just the shading, overall, that's very poor.

To be completely honest, this is one of the nicest crits I have ever heard Seph give.

I wouldn't have said it any differently.

I've always thought your battle sprites are awesome, but the mugs needed improvement. It's cool to see the new ones, even if there are some odd shading problems.

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I agree, Lineart= good, shading is pretty bleh.

For me, it seems the skin shading had the most issues.

Edited by L95

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Also, his "cloth" that he has... using two shades... makes it the flatest piece of cloth I have EVER seen. From what I saw on the sprite when I looked at the index on GIMP... you have one more shade available. Use it. Using the outline color for the darkest shade for his cloth is a BAD idea.

Ephraim's FE8 facesprite also uses only two shades in the cloth.

The thing that bugs me about some of these, especially Tana and Ephraim, is the angling. The angles are very weird, and most humans would not be sitting in those poses for long periods of time.

I do like how you're revamping all of the mugs, and that will give all of them consistency (something that some hacks lack in graphics departments because people usually have multiple spriters). However, the shading does need work. The faces are very pillowed and use too much of the second shade. Celice's hair is too big, or his head is too small (I know SNES!FE had this issue with the hair but it is a fixable error), and Seth's head also looks too small in comparison to his body.

And I agree, the lightest shade of Ephraim's hair does not match at all. His FE8 haircolor works fine for this situation.

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Ephraim's FE8 facesprite also uses only two shades in the cloth.

The difference being, they used it with the shades of where the shadows would the shoulder plates go. As in, it's understandable with the color contrast, whereas this Ephraim has the cloth on the outside being the one that is the most exposed to the light. It's pretty much saying "HEY, LOOK AT ME!". Like I said before, it could use the extra shade that is available in the sprite.

It's the color choices that is doing it.

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I think they are of acceptable quality, and I have high expectations, so most people probably won't mind them, as long as you as te creator like them, then they're good enough. Admittedly they could be improved but everything can, and caring too much about the sprites will just ruin the hack in so many ways I don't have time to mention, but for one it probably won't finish. XD

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More renovations...

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Also, Luzan will try to correct the other faces, but sincerely they look good to me... And if you want you can correct the shades, I'll give credits to whom do it.

And, I'm planning to include to Chris and Krom as playable characters, bot for the moment is only an idea.

Edited by oracle_of_fire

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A little edgy on either inclusion. Chris can have any number of appearances and backgrounds, but two of them are at the least somewhat more canonical and AFAIK his/her personality never changes. So while edgy on it I could see it work.

Nobody knows anything about Krom. I wouldn't go that route.

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omg i love the new nomad guy.

the one on the right tho

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I'll agree that the mugs look better. Can you have your spriter use a slightly darker shade in the "shine" of Julian's eye? He looks rather scary right now.

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And, I'm planning to include to Chris and Krom as playable characters, bot for the moment is only an idea.

They'd be really cool cameos, coming in as side-character mercenary peoples :P

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