Skurge

Hoenn region tier list

398 posts in this topic

Wobbuffett could rise.

you can get the wynaut egg, or just catch one in the safari zone.

being able to set up and wall many problematic trainers, and mirror move/counter is more than Lotad will be oing for 3/4 of the game

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Raised Seedot just below Corpish.

Wailmers been bugging me, it's alright, but should it drop or rise?

W-What's up with this leapfrogging?

As to Wailmer, I'd imagine it gets held back by late evolution.

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W-What's up with this leapfrogging?

As to Wailmer, I'd imagine it gets held back by late evolution.

Wailmer can be caught within just a level or two of evolution.

And, has good offense, water spout, and great att/sp att and a huge HP cushion.

Its defenses and speed are another story though..

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The problem with Wailord is that it's just another water type. It has nothing to differentiate itself aside from Water Spout, which kinda needs speed to function so you don't get hit first, something Wailord is sorely lacking. If you chose Mudkip, it is thoroughly useless, if you caught a far superior Tentacruel earlier, it is thoroughly useless. All it gives you is a mediocre attacker with a good chunk of HP.

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Wailmer can be caught within just a level or two of evolution.

And, has good offense, water spout, and great att/sp att and a huge HP cushion.

Its defenses and speed are another story though..

I'm not seeing Water Spout as practical when you're slow enough that you can't get it off witout taking an attack first...

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I'm not seeing Water Spout as practical when you're slow enough that you can't get it off witout taking an attack first...

Now in the inevitable remake where you can give it a Choice Scarf...

Honestly, I'd say Golduck's better than Wailmer, and Crawdaunt is absolutely better. Wailmer levels up too slow and takes too long to evolve...

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Good point.

I've been fooling around using Gulpin, and look at that TM access. This thing has so many freaking options for moves. It has Yawn at base and sludge. You can catch it en route Mauville. There is one guy with 2 2nd form grass mons that give a lot of exp. Gulpin is fairly durable, and both offensive stats are even. It is about the same as Koffing (I think, but can't go on search engine for some reason)

If we're not using anything that wants shock wave, Gulpin can have it. If we still have Bullet seed, Gulpin can take it to deal with random ground types that NPC generics have. When it evolves, it gets body slam. And, lvl 26 is somewhat early. 80 in both offensive stats isn't godly, but it should be alright. It is fairly durable, and is kinda like Wobbuffett with worse typing, but better movepool and offense. Encore, Toxic, and Yawn are nice status/support moves. And, its also capable of going Yawn+Focus Punch to do a lot of damage.

Let's see how well it does if allowed TMs it wants.

Wattson-

Not much on offense, but it can take a hit before using Yawn on something. Then again, most things have problems with Wattson, except for Geodude, Mudkip, Makuhita, Combusken, and Breloom.

Flannery-

Again, I guess if its evolved, it can take hits and body slam/shock wave and yawn her mons. Being able to take overheat and still live is nice too.

Norman-

Now, this is fun, Swalot has access to 3 status move, Yawn, Toxic, and encore. As well as many TMs, sludge and body slam. It can probobly sleep Spinda, and kill it, and shit. But against Slaking, it can fuck it. Encore Slaking when it uses a non-damaging move and sludge it. 65 BP+stab is like 90ish BP.

Not bad for a mon with merely "ok" stats and such.

Against Winona, Its bulk can help it survive, yawn/encore and shock wave to fare well.

T+L

Fuck, ok, it gets destroyed here, unless it can like yawn Claydol/ encore calm mind set ups before dying.

Juan/Wallace-

good bulk helps, along with Giga Drain/ shock wave to help here. Encore/yawn to screw up the water leaders and Yawn+Focus Punch to dent the fuck in a lot of things.

Against E4

Sidney-

Yawn+FP

Or just helping out with encore/yawn and giga drain on Pedo/Crawdaunt

Phoebe-

Status spreading and shadow balling junk

Glacia-

Capable of surviving, and encoring hail and X special spam and then do massive damage with SE moves.

Drake-

Encore Shelgons Iron defense (I think)

And set up with status

ICE BEAM for coverage in a pinch.

Wallace-

Well, I guess encore rain dance/recover to support the team, and yawn+focus punch to put a dent in 4 of Wallaces MOns.

So, I'm not sure about it rising or dropping, insight?

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Norman-

Now, this is fun, Swalot has access to 3 status move, Yawn, Toxic, and encore. As well as many TMs, sludge and body slam. It can probobly sleep Spinda, and kill it, and shit. But against Slaking, it can fuck it. Encore Slaking when it uses a non-damaging move and sludge it. 65 BP+stab is like 90ish BP.

You do realize that Norman uses Facade, right? Which means that poisoning his Pokemon might wind up "out of the frying pan and into the fire" so to speak. Also, in Emerald, his Vigoroth and Spinda have Encore. Oh, and one more thing: Swalot doesn't learn Toxic until level 31.

Edited by Metal King Slime

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I've been fooling around using Gulpin, and look at that TM access. This thing has so many freaking options for moves. It has Yawn at base and sludge. You can catch it en route Mauville. There is one guy with 2 2nd form grass mons that give a lot of exp. Gulpin is fairly durable, and both offensive stats are even. It is about the same as Koffing (I think, but can't go on search engine for some reason)

Problem with Gulpin is he shows up at a time where it's REALLY hard to welcome any low level mon: right before Wattson. The real question really is does he do anything worthwhile before Koffing shows up? Considering being a low level poison sucks, I would highly doubt it.

If we're not using anything that wants shock wave, Gulpin can have it. If we still have Bullet seed, Gulpin can take it to deal with random ground types that NPC generics have. When it evolves, it gets body slam. And, lvl 26 is somewhat early. 80 in both offensive stats isn't godly, but it should be alright. It is fairly durable, and is kinda like Wobbuffett with worse typing, but better movepool and offense. Encore, Toxic, and Yawn are nice status/support moves. And, its also capable of going Yawn+Focus Punch to do a lot of damage.

Problem with Ground types are that they're usually Geodude and Numel, two things that have Magnitude, a move of which destroys any scrub weak to the move on bad luck. They also come almost immediately after catching it and passing Wattson, which is why imo all low level poison types in Hoenn have the world's worst start. None of them are like Torkoal who is so armor tough he could shrug off something as devestating as Magnitude. The only exception is Koffing because Levitate leaves him immune. Koffing also does not take long to get Sludge, and can also learn Shockwave (and probably be better with it). Yawn+Focus Punch is also incredibly gimmicky. I would actually only consider Toxic to be the only real useful utility move.

Let's see how well it does if allowed TMs it wants.

Wattson-

Not much on offense, but it can take a hit before using Yawn on something. Then again, most things have problems with Wattson, except for Geodude, Mudkip, Makuhita, Combusken, and Breloom.

I'd venture Gulpin has it significantly worse as Magneton is his greatest threat, and Gulpin can do absolutely dick to it. Atleast other mons can ya know...Hurt it. I imagine an Electrike if it can survive itcould at least Thunder Wave the Magneton.

Flannery-

Again, I guess if its evolved, it can take hits and body slam/shock wave and yawn her mons. Being able to take overheat and still live is nice too.

Then Camerupt comes in and ruins any damage you could do. You have better means of dealing with this incredibly easy gym.

Norman-

Now, this is fun, Swalot has access to 3 status move, Yawn, Toxic, and encore. As well as many TMs, sludge and body slam. It can probobly sleep Spinda, and kill it, and shit. But against Slaking, it can fuck it. Encore Slaking when it uses a non-damaging move and sludge it. 65 BP+stab is like 90ish BP.

Not bad for a mon with merely "ok" stats and such.

Norman is an absolute joke in Emerald, why are we going in such a roundabout fashion to kill it? Having a random fire type with Overheat switching in and out every mon would prove more effective than this junk. And as stated, Facade.

Against Winona, Its bulk can help it survive, yawn/encore and shock wave to fare well.

Winona is also a very easy boss who dies simply to the existence of Shock Wave. Question is, do you have anybetter options? What of speed, for example?

Juan/Wallace-

good bulk helps, along with Giga Drain/ shock wave to help here. Encore/yawn to screw up the water leaders and Yawn+Focus Punch to dent the fuck in a lot of things.

Giga Drain is hardly an offensive move I'd want to rely on sweeping a gym leader, much less on a mon who doesn't STAB with it. Not enough PP, and even then, Juan and Wallace are hardly using the wimpier type of waters. Juan is an even worse story. If you don't kill Wishcash it'll simply kill you back, and Kingdra will absolutely destroy Swalot.

E4

Sidney-

Yawn+FP

Or just helping out with encore/yawn and giga drain on Pedo/Crawdaunt

Dark types are notoriously not that tough. I would venture anything with a good attack stat and Brick Break would prove more effective.

Phoebe-

Status spreading and shadow balling junk

I forget, don't some of her mons have Psychic?

Glacia-

Capable of surviving, and encoring hail and X special spam and then do massive damage with SE moves.

Better idea, can Swalot learn Thunderbolt or Brick Break, and if so, why it and not others?

So, I'm not sure about it rising or dropping, insight?

I highly doubt it should be high, as Koffing sounds better and even then I'm not severely impressed. Somewhere in Lower Mid at BEST.

You do realize that Norman uses Facade, right? Which means that poisoning his Pokemon might wind up "out of the frying pan and into the fire" so to speak. Also, in Emerald, his Vigoroth and Spinda have Encore. Oh, and one more thing: Swalot doesn't learn Toxic until level 31.

There's also this.

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Having a random fire type with Overheat switching in and out every mon would prove more effective than this junk.

Doesn't sound like all that great a solution when, barring Torchic, your fire types are limited to Slugma, Numel and Torkoal, seeing as the first two are frail, and all of them are slow. And as this is Emerald we're talking about, Linoone getting off a Belly Drum means you're pretty much ruined.

Edited by Metal King Slime

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Doesn't sound like all that great a solution when, barring Torchic, your fire types are limited to Slugma, Numel and Torkoal, seeing as the first two are frail, and all of them are slow. And as this is Emerald we're talking about, Linoone getting off a Belly Drum means you're pretty much ruined.

All it matters is if they can survive being attacked (outside of Slaking, who you have to work down first. Due to Truant, that's not hard). Now I dunno about Slugma and Numel (though I'll definitely test out Slugma in the near future), but I know Torkoal can deal with Norman easily nearly by itself. Really though, Linoone using Belly Drum? Linoone's not exactly a tank, you could fart on it and you would kill it if it ever dreamed of using Belly Drum.

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All it matters is if they can survive being attacked (outside of Slaking, who you have to work down first. Due to Truant, that's not hard). Now I dunno about Slugma and Numel (though I'll definitely test out Slugma in the near future), but I know Torkoal can deal with Norman easily nearly by itself. Really though, Linoone using Belly Drum? Linoone's not exactly a tank, you could fart on it and you would kill it if it ever dreamed of using Belly Drum.

True, but the Overheat-and-switch method means a free turn for the opponent regardless. Assuming Linoone uses Belly Drum while you switch in your Overheater... You're a dead duck. As for Slugma and Numel... I wouldn't place much stock in 40/40/40 and 60/40/45 defenses if I were you.

Edited by Metal King Slime

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True, but the Overheat-and-switch method means a free turn for the opponent regardless. Assuming Linoone uses Belly Drum while you switch in your Overheater... You're a dead duck. As for Slugma and Numel... I wouldn't place much stock in 40/40/40 and 60/40/45 defenses if I were you.

Linoone is such a scrub, you don't even have to rely on Overheat to deal with it. Torkoal's got Body Slam, Numel's got Magnitude, Slugma's got...I dunno what the hell it's got.

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Linoone is such a scrub, you don't even have to rely on Overheat to deal with it. Torkoal's got Body Slam, Numel's got Magnitude, Slugma's got...I dunno what the hell it's got.

And out of those, Torkoal's the only one I'd wager would be much use against Norman. Also, I'd hate to think what'd become of your strategy if Overheat happened to miss...

Edited by Metal King Slime

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And out of those, Torkoal's the only one I'd wager would be much use against Norman. Also, I'd hate to think what'd become of your strategy if Overheat happened to miss...

You have 5 uses, only 3 real mons to use it on, and two of those 3 mons are not that fantastic. You can afford a couple misses.

With Torkoal though, yeah, it's definitely really effective with him due to his natural toughness.

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gulpin hype

look dude

coverage doesn't mean jack shit when your stats suck and your coverage moves suck

support moves don't mean jack shit ingame when you can OHKO everything with the flick of a thumb (sometimes with a little bit of setup)

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You have 5 uses, only 3 real mons to use it on, and two of those 3 mons are not that fantastic. You can afford a couple misses.

With Torkoal though, yeah, it's definitely really effective with him due to his natural toughness.

Whatever. I think I've done enough damage to your argument, because aside from Torkoal, your fire type choices at that point (barring Torchic) are scrubs.

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Whatever. I think I've done enough damage to your argument, because aside from Torkoal, your fire type choices at that point (barring Torchic) are scrubs.

It doesn't make Gulpin look any better still, which was kinda part of the point presented.

Also, I'm throwing out support for Gulpin sucking. All this theory of it being decent does NOT apply in practice. Trust me, I've tried.

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It doesn't make Gulpin look any better still, which was kinda part of the point presented.

Also, I'm throwing out support for Gulpin sucking. All this theory of it being decent does NOT apply in practice. Trust me, I've tried.

Well, that's true, but I got in on this because of my own gripes with the part about Overheating Norman's Pokemon, then switching out (like the part where you have to take two attacks if you try that - one on the switch turn, and another on the attacking turn. Combine that with Slugma and Numel being fragile, and...). And I'm also supporting the notion that Gulpin sucks.

Also, I think that Slugma can drop to bottom due to crappy typing, bad stats, and late evolution. And why are Nincada, Illumise, and Volbeat STILL not in bottom?

Edited by Metal King Slime

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look dude

coverage doesn't mean jack shit when your stats suck and your coverage moves suck

support moves don't mean jack shit ingame when you can OHKO everything with the flick of a thumb (sometimes with a little bit of setup)

I hit the fan....

Yeah, it's staying where it is.

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Nincada has 2 alright evolutions.

Ninjask-speed boost

Swords dance

Slash

AA

Shadow Ball

Dig

Only problem here is fraility.

Shedinja-wonder guard-

Shadow ball

AA

Dig

IDK what else.

Walls Norman and Juan and I think wallace. and Wattson, if you're going a bit slower.

Volbeat/Illumise

TMs

Charm/confuse ray/tail glow.

Ok, someone persuade me on these 2 fireflies.

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Nincada has 2 alright evolutions.

Ninjask-speed boost

Swords dance

Slash

AA

Shadow Ball

Dig

Only problem here is fraility.

Shedinja-wonder guard-

Shadow ball

AA

Dig

IDK what else.

Walls Norman and Juan and I think wallace. and Wattson, if you're going a bit slower.

Volbeat/Illumise

TMs

Charm/confuse ray/tail glow.

Ok, someone persuade me on these 2 fireflies.

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Nincada has 2 alright evolutions.

Ninjask-speed boost

Swords dance

Slash

AA

Shadow Ball

Dig

Only problem here is fraility.

Shedinja-wonder guard-

Shadow ball

AA

Dig

IDK what else.

Walls Norman and Juan and I think wallace. and Wattson, if you're going a bit slower.

Volbeat/Illumise

TMs

Charm/confuse ray/tail glow.

Ok, someone persuade me on these 2 fireflies.

On Shedinja:

Norman is (mostly) a no go; Faint Attacks and (in Emerald) Teeter Dance.

Wattson: Voltorb has Rollout, and there's Supersonics up the wazoo.

Juan: Luvdisc has Sweet Kiss, but that's it.

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Supersonic has 55 acc.

Still, annoyance up the wazoooooooo!

Yeah, I can drop the fireflies, but nincada is going at most-2 space§

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