The Last To Post Wins!

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Yeah, they look great among my other waifus!

[DragonFlames]

23 hours ago, Shrimperor said:

Pizza is love.

Pizza is life.
I had one earlier.

On 10/4/2019 at 6:09 PM, Armagon said:

I never got around to using Iksel and Cory (i did recruit them but i never actually used them) so i don't know how good they actually are. However, definitely switch out Rorona for someone who can take and deal enough hits. Preferably someone strong enough to serve as a shield for Totori for that upcoming sea dragon boss (you really don't want to use assist attacks for that one).

I haven't used Iksel, but Cory is pretty good in this game. Not exactly the most defensive, but she has two AOE skills, which is extremely useful.
As for that sea dragon boss, well... that's just history repeating itself. More on that in a bit when I post my review of Totori in the usual topic.

5 hours ago, Ingrid Brandl Galatea said:

Santa Claus came in a bit early:

The best thing about Tales of Zestiria.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

14 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

The best thing about Tales of Zestiria.

That is my quote.

Anyways, she saved the game from being completely boring. 

[DragonFlames]

25 minutes ago, Ingrid Brandl Galatea said:

That is my quote.

Anyways, she saved the game from being completely boring. 

While I agree that Zestiria is weak, I didn't find it boring, per se. It's just the plot is too... basic for Tales standards. Definitely one of the weaker entries that I know of, beaten out only by Graces.
And don't tell me you didn't laugh at Lailah's puns.

[Shrimpica]

Berseria is love though

[DragonFlames]

Just now, Shrimperor said:

Berseria is love though

Yes it is. Absolutely.

Semi-related: My top 5 Tales games
1. Berseria
2. Xillia 2
3. Symphonia Dawn of the New World
4. Xillia
5. Hearts R

[Shrimpica]

I only played Berseria xD

Tried Vesperia, but refunded it faster then you could order & eat your pizza

iirc i complained about it a few weeks ago over here or the watcha playin thread

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Oh, there are people here who like Dawn to the New World?

People considered it as black sheep mainly because of the protagonist. 

(Have not played it yet because I am no big fan of Symphonia)  

 

Yes, Bersy is soooo much better than Zesty, but Zesty still has better dungeons. If I miss one thing in Berseria, then a well designed dungeon. Aside of the water temple and final dungeon nothing comes in mind unfortunately. Also postgame was obnoxious. 

[Acacia Sgt]

Tales games, huh.

I've played both Symphonia ones and the Abyss. If it means anything, watched the Zestiria anime, haha.

The heck they're doing, keeping Phantasia in Japan. I actually did tried the GBA version; but... well, general consensus is that PSX/PSP is better.

2 minutes ago, Ingrid Brandl Galatea said:

Oh, there are people here who like Dawn to the New World?

People considered it as black sheep mainly because of the protagonist. 

(Have not played it yet because I am no big fan of Symphonia)  

Heard of that. I don't mind him, actually.

Edited October 5, 2019 by Acacia Sgt

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

My order of played games:

1. Abyss
2. Berseria
3. Vesperia
4. Xillia 2
5. Xilla 
6. Graces
7. Zestiria
8. Symphonia (I dislike the 2.5D battle graphics) 

 

Zestiria anime has been the only anime series I have watched yet, well, it exists. 

 

I do not enjoy the old Tales games because I cannot get used to the 3D battle graphics and controls. Also random encounters are a thing which I dislike. I grew up with 3D Tales. 

Edited October 5, 2019 by Ingrid Brandl Galatea

[Armagon]

My expierence with Tales games is simultanously pleasant and not so pleasant. I've watched the anime adaptations of Abyss, Symphonia and Zestiria. The plots are nothing i'd write home about but the characters are really nice.

When it comes to the actual games, i'm gonna sound like a broken record, but i just don't like how the older ones played. I liked Zestiria gameplay tho. And now that i have a Pro Controller, i'm willing to give Berseria a shot. As for Arise, it looks gorgeous and i'd love to try it out but i don't have anything to play it on (my PC ain't handling a game of that scale).

6 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

Semi-related: My top 5 Tales games
1. Berseria
2. Xillia 2
3. Symphonia Dawn of the New World
4. Xillia
5. Hearts R

Hearts R, huh? I remember trying to emulate the original DS version but stopped because the fan-translation was incomplete do to R being out. And Vita emulators actually don't work (i shit on DS emulators a lot but at least they work) so i didn't really have a way to play it.

How was the game, btw? I've seen people talk about the other games you've listed but i've never really heard anything about Hearts.

 

6 hours ago, Ingrid Brandl Galatea said:

People considered it as black sheep mainly because of the protagonist. 

I thought it was because of the low budget.

Anyway though, a game being a black sheep doesn't necisarly mean it's bad. It's more of just, the game is really different from series standards and enough people don't like it because of that. That last part is important because a game can be different but still well liked (i.e Breath of the Wild) so it's not a black sheep.

Examples of black sheeps and why:

• Zelda II: Adventure of Link. To this day, it's the only 2D sidescrolling Zelda game we've gotten.
• Majora's Mask: while it is beloved, a lot of people don't like it either because of the time limit or the tone or both. The remake can also be considered a black sheep because it's one of those games where you can say the original is better and be valid.
• Xenoblade X: the only Xeno game where story takes a back seat while everything else is the focus, especially combat and exploration (this is intentional). Xenoblade 2 was literally made because pre-release Xenoblade X reception was a lot of "why is this not like Xenoblade 1".
• Gaiden/SoV: map design and a rather big focus on being a more traditional RPG (dungeons). Some people don't like that.

Black sheeps have their fans, whether they be many or few. Sometimes, these black sheeps end up rather high on people's rankings.

I don't think black sheeps are bad games because people don't refer to bad games as black sheeps. They refer to them as bad games. Look at Final Fantasy 13. People don't call it a black sheep. They call it a bad game.

Edited October 5, 2019 by Armagon
Reworded for clarification

[Acacia Sgt]

Not much love for the old battle system, huh. Bit of a shame, I'd think.

Anyway, I just remembered I also saw the Symphonia anime. The first half, at least. Oh man, now I remember how much I liked this song...

 

[Shrimpica]

16 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Not much love for the old battle system, huh. Bit of a shame, I'd think.

the whole '2D but actually 3D' was pretty annoying tbh.

Not to mention it plays more like a fighting game and less an action game, and i usually don't play fighting games that aren't called smash

 

[Armagon]

Oh i forgot this

1 hour ago, Acacia Sgt said:

The heck they're doing, keeping Phantasia in Japan. I actually did tried the GBA version; but... well, general consensus is that PSX/PSP is better.

I don't know how the GBA and PSP versions (and SNES, can't forget about that one) compare but the PS1 version isn't very good at all from a gameplay standpoint. The thing that breaks the game for me is that every time a magic attack is used, the screen stops and then everyone has to wait until the magic animation is finished before anyone can act again. And if magic attacks are being spammed, then no one gets to play the game. In an action RPG, this is not good game design at all. I can't even say "oh it's a PS1 JRPG, it hasn't aged well" because it's one of those things where i wouldn't have liked it even if i played it when it came out.

Now i would imagine that the PSP version fixes Phantasia's gameplay in a lot of places but iirc, there isn't any fan-translation (at least completed) for that. So idk. 

 

Edited October 5, 2019 by Armagon

[Armagon]

So while i was eating lunch today, i did the only sensible thing one can do while eating lunch: browse the goldmine that is r/prequelmemes

 

 

[Acacia Sgt]

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

Oh i forgot this

I don't know how the GBA and PSP versions (and SNES, can't forget about that one) compare but the PS1 version isn't very good at all from a gameplay standpoint. The thing that breaks the game for me is that every time a magic attack is used, the screen stops and then everyone has to wait until the magic animation is finished before anyone can act again. And if magic attacks are being spammed, then no one gets to play the game. In an action RPG, this is not good game design at all. I can't even say "oh it's a PS1 JRPG, it hasn't aged well" because it's one of those things where i wouldn't have liked it even if i played it when it came out.

Now i would imagine that the PSP version fixes Phantasia's gameplay in a lot of places but iirc, there isn't any fan-translation (at least completed) for that. So idk. 

 

Well, most comparisons I've seen are more on content stuff. Like, strikes against the GBA version are things like no skits, removal of content from the PSX version, stuff added to the GBA version itself not compensating enough, the slights in the official translation (inevitably you'll see people bringing up the "Ragnarok mistranslated to Kangaroo" bit), and probably more technical stuff due to being a GBA game. What best I can recall at the moment.

Now the PSP from what I heard is an amalgation of both PSX and GBA content... with some additions of its own, though I think those have their supporters and detractors too.

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 hour ago, Acacia Sgt said:

and probably more technical stuff due to being a GBA game.

That is putting it mildly, the game laaaaaaaaags day in and out. Well maybe not "lag", since it is so plentiful it seems to be an intentional sacrifice put into making the game. But whatever you call it, Cress's attacks are slower than they should be, I think everyone can agree on that.

And then there is the game's GBA English opening:

 

5 hours ago, Ingrid Brandl Galatea said:

Oh, there are people here who like Dawn to the New World?

People considered it as black sheep mainly because of the protagonist. 

(Have not played it yet because I am no big fan of Symphonia)  

Namco explicitly said the game is "Escort" as opposed to "Mothership", aka spinoff not main entry.

The amount of effort put into the game certainly feels this game. It isn't Tales of Symphonia 2, it's ToS: Gaiden- a little sidestory after the great big journey of Lloyd and his seven-eight companions.

Speaking of Lloyd and the ToS1 cast, criticism is directed at how they can't level. The story determines their level at any given point, with all of them ending the game at level 50. While you can most certainly use them throughout the story as I did the first time, this is felt to be the game's way of shoehorning you into using Emile, Marta, and the game's recruitable and evolveable monsters.

Emile is not the problem for me, the cringy dialogue to motivate him? Yes, that is a problem. He is on the softer, wimper side of the JRPG protag, except when he gets edgy and angry in his red-eyed "Ratatosk Mode". But he was fun to play as, despite being just another sword user. 

[Acacia Sgt]

11 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

That is putting it mildly, the game laaaaaaaaags day in and out. Well maybe not "lag", since it is so plentiful it seems to be an intentional sacrifice put into making the game. But whatever you call it, Cress's attacks are slower than they should be, I think everyone can agree on that.

And then there is the game's GBA English opening:

From my understanding, the SNES version itself was already pushing the console to its limit. Something that only the first Star Ocean game would do too (not coincidentally, SO was made by people who were originally working on ToP but left to form Tri-Ace). So yeah, no surprises if the transition to GBA couldn't be perfect. The GBA version is more based from the SNES original than the PSX port, after all.

Ah, it always gives me a laugh. "WHAT THE HECK IS THAT!?" Classy.

Ultimately, general concensus of ToP's versions will be "PSX/PSP > SNES > GBA". Like I said, PSP could be overall first; but it boils down to preference... and as mention previously, accesability. Now don't get me started on Narikiri Dungeon X...

16 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Namco explicitly said the game is "Escort" as opposed to "Mothership", aka spinoff not main entry.

The amount of effort put into the game certainly feels this game. It isn't Tales of Symphonia 2, it's ToS: Gaiden- a little sidestory after the great big journey of Lloyd and his seven-eight companions.

Speaking of Lloyd and the ToS1 cast, criticism is directed at how they can't level. The story determines their level at any given point, with all of them ending the game at level 50. While you can most certainly use them throughout the story as I did the first time, this is felt to be the game's way of shoehorning you into using Emile, Marta, and the game's recruitable and evolveable monsters.

One thing I'll give the game is it's attempt to bridge some of the details still unanswered between Symphonia and Phantasia. Also, the usage of Ratatosk. I'll have to admit it was the game who introduced me to Ratatosk and its mythological significance.

Oh yes, it's certainly a down point for the game to treat the cast of the previous game with such a gameplay limitation. Heck, Sheena can't even user her summons! Worse when the story shows she still has them. Well, Undine and Celsius; but nothing says her pacts with the rest weren't fulfilled... or that she didn't made new pacts. Still, that was quite a bummer.

[Armagon]

48 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

And then there is the game's GBA English opening:

......that.........I.........are you sure that wasn't just an abridged cutscene?

 

48 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Namco explicitly said the game is "Escort" as opposed to "Mothership", aka spinoff not main entry.

So why is DotNW considered "Escort" when other direct sequels have been "Mothership"? I know it didn't have that big of a budget but even if it is more a side story than a sequel, it's still takes place in an established Tales world and doesn't really appear to have the qualities of a spin-off. It's not like actual Tales spinoffs like Link (the gacha game), Eternia Online (the MMO) and the crossover games.

Idk, saying DotNW is a spin-off is like saying Gaiden/SoV is a Fire Emblem spin-off. I don't really see the thought process here.

 

 

Edited October 5, 2019 by Armagon

[Acacia Sgt]

6 minutes ago, Armagon said:

......that.........I.........are you sure that wasn't just an abridged cutscene?

 

So why is DotNW considered "Escort" when other direct sequels have been "Mothership"? I know it didn't have that big of a budget but even if it is more a side story than a sequel, it's still takes place in an established Tales world and doesn't really appear to have the qualities of a spin-off. It's not like actual Tales spinoffs like Link (the gacha game), Eternia Online and the crossover games.

Idk, saying DotNW is a spin-off is like saying Gaiden/SoV is a Fire Emblem spin-off. I don't really see the thought process here.

 

 

Nope, that's quite official. Like I said, the only official localization of ToP is... notable. (Once more, Ragnarok to Kangaro, how can you screw that up!?)

Not a good comparison, since Gaiden literally means "side-story". Heck, that was even the "official" fan term for Paralogues before we had, well, the word in usage. On the other hand, comparing it to SoV is accurate. SoV may be a "main title" game; but it's ultimately an escort/side-story title to the main Archanea narrative that was the first and third games (and their remakes).

I would think the escort label is more thematically, than mechanically. If that's the correct comparison to make.

 

Edited October 5, 2019 by Acacia Sgt

[Armagon]

14 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

(Once more, Ragnarok to Kangaro, how can you screw that up!?)

Don't you know that in Norse mythology, the world was destined to be ended by a Kangaroo?

 

14 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I would think the escort label is more thematically, than mechanically. If that's the correct comparison to make.

The thing is, when you look at other Escort Tales games, they actually are spin-offs. A gacha game, a musou game, an MMO, a crossover series. Compared to that, DotNW stands out a lot (and Tempest i guess but i have heard no good things about that game).

Gaiden/SoV plays pretty different from other FE games but it's still a main series game. Xenoblade X is different from other Xenoblade games but it's still a main series game (Takahashi did say that numbered (1, 2, Torna) and X are seperate catagories of Xenoblade games but he never said that X wasn't main series). I know that DotNW didn't have much of a budget but since it

• Takes place in an already established world
• Features returning characters from Symphonia
• Story takes place after Symphonia

I can't see how it isn't a Mothership title. If it's a side-story, then it should be labled as such but grouping it with actual spin-offs is just odd. So even if you say it's just thematically, DotNW is more main series than spin-off.

Edited October 6, 2019 by Armagon

[Acacia Sgt]

I would put DotnW in the same basket as, say, Narikiri Dungeon. Consider this, ND:

• Takes place in an already established world
• Features returning characters from Phantasia
• Story takes place after Phantasia

Yet ND isn't a mothership title either. I believe it's also an escort title? Ultimately, this is perhaps something we could only really get an answer asking the company itself.

 

[Armagon]

17 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Yet ND isn't a mothership title either. I believe it's also an escort title?

Retroactively, yes. ND wasn't made an Escort title until the categories was created with Tales of the Tempest, six years after ND's release. Though gameplay-wise, it's turn-based due to being on the Game Boy Color (remake for the PSP exists but idk if that one's turn based).

In other words, ND was main series until Namco decided that it wasn't.  Speaking of being main series until it wasn't, it seems that Tempest was a Mothership game until the reception was so bad that Namco said "nah, this shit's Escort".

ND is a unique case though because it's sequel started the Tales of the World subseries a.k.a the crossover games (a.k.a actual spinoffs). So i guess that the original ND was retroactively made an Escort for simplicity's sake.

Edited October 6, 2019 by Armagon

[Acacia Sgt]

7 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Retroactively, yes. ND wasn't made an Escort title until the categories was created with Tales of the Tempest, six years after ND's release. Though gameplay-wise, it's turn-based due to being on the Game Boy Color (remake for the PSP exists but idk if that one's turn based).

In other words, ND was main series until Namco decided that it wasn't.  Speaking of being main series until it wasn't, it seems that Tempest was a Mothership game until the reception was so bad that Namco said "nah, this shit's Escort".

ND is a unique case though because it's sequel started the Tales of the World subseries a.k.a the crossover games (a.k.a actual spinoffs). So i guess that the original ND was retroactively made an Escort for simplicity's sake.

You sure it was considered main series before the official designations? Is there something that could point to that? It was even made concurrently with Tales of Eternia (release days are even just 20 days between each other), I doubt it was a "main" project.

[Armagon]

2 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

You sure it was considered main series before the official designations? Is there something that could point to that? It was even made concurrently with Tales of Eternia (release days are even just 20 days between each other), I doubt it was a "main" project.

Admitidly, that was more assumption on my part. I haven't found any concerete evidence from Namco itself. The most i have seen from my research into the matter is that Japanese media considered it a mainline game before Namco said no. However, at least from what i know, despite Tempest's poor reception, it seems to play like a normal Tales game.

Also, Tales of the Tempest came out in 2006. Eternia came out in 2000. There are no Mothership Tales games that came out in 2006.