Rate the unit, Day 10: Rebecca

[Raven]

Sorry Elieson - we know you're busy with real life things, so hopefully you don't mind someone else making the next rating topic instead.

Rebecca's an Archer. She can promote into a Sniper. She has 40% strength, 50% Skill, 50% luck and 60% speed growths. Her bases aren't that good, but with growths like that she is capable of becoming one of the best units in the game statistically. Also being locked to 2 range is quite a downer, she works best when used strategically as opposed to simply thrown into a crowd of enemies.

Earlygame kind of sucks as you try to baby her up, but she has her uses through not receiving much damage, and can chip HP from enemies. 35%.

Midgame improves a lot as she becomes more useful, especially against flying units and chapters with lots of walls. 65%.

By lategame and endgame she's simply a dodgetank, and if used right with melee units she can retaliate and kill anything that decides to attack her. 95%.

Raven's rating: 65%.

Current ranks:

Hector-8.3

Matthew-6.3

Oswin-6.7

Serra-6.3

Bartre-2.8

Dorcas-4.1

Eliwood-5.34

Lowen-6.75

Marcus-9.29

Edited December 29, 2011 by Razer

[Frosty]

Let's see...

She's an Archer; hence no enemy phase; she does have average to cool growths. Her affinity is good which is Fire simply translates as +ATK, +HIT and +CRIT! She also can support Lowen and Dart which are both Fire! Hence Full-CRIT, Full-ATK and Full-HIT options!

Like Razer said; her earlygame is a downer and needs pretty copious amounts of effort to be useful. Hence...

4.5

[Bluedoom]

Rebecca takes a 3.75/10 here.

She's locked to bows and has pretty bad bases. HHM is not very friendly in terms of damage. She gets lower than Bartre because its even harder to train her now- at least Bartre has hand axes to deal damage at both ranges.

Awesome growths does not a unit make.

[grandjackal]

Every game, archers have to get on their knees and pray to the Intelligent Systems gods that the enemies are either tough enough to deserve archer chip or the weapons outside of their bows are inaccurate enough that they are warranted. FE7 is by far and wide not even close to being one or the other. Even worse, her starting group hardly needs her simply because you have means of high enough damage off the bat that no one cares. She could easily not exist, and nothing would change.

As for training her? Well if you want to give her kills, I guess her offense picks up..Eventually...But again, you are hardly lacking in that. And you could do better what with the likes of 1-2 range, since enemies are absolute dolts in this game that could be hit blindfolded.

Simply put? Bad stats. Results of use are still crap in the grand scheme of the game. Bad class. Not worth the time, not worth the effort.

I only give her a liiiiitle bit of credit for a pegasi in chapter 13.

1.1/10

[Kngt_Of_Titania]

7/10.

And yes, I know, I'm sure you'll be like "I rated her a 3/10 because she is an archer and therefore must suck. You're totally rating her too high." But give me a moment.

Statistically, Rebecca does almost everything right, except for bases; her growths are absolutely god-like for FE7 offensively. For a good example, let's compare her to Lowen. Both join at exactly the same time, at almost the same level, and, let's be honest, Lowen isn't doing very well at the start either. We can talk all day about how his bases beat hers (and, yeah, they do), but he can't 2-range worth a damn for at least the first few chapters. The first time I ever got Lowen into any significant 2-range usage was (IIRC) around chapter 15, when I had him blockade the northern hole and use the javelin to counter the mages. Until then (which is basically every chapter where both are forced), Lowen has to basically rely on 1-range to do any work, meaning he's open to counters unless he's finishing off enemies. And his DEF base, while impressive, will not carry him *that* far in HHM; he can be killed pretty easily early on if you're not careful, and every passing chapter kind of has him slipping a little bit offensively until he hits the doubling mark, at which point it becomes repectable again and he has good DEF/RES/MOV to fall back on, making him a solid unit.

Rebecca has similar early-game woes; yes, she has slightly less power to her name, can't double for the first few chapters, and it looks pretty bleak. But Rebecca's 2-range is a boon here; unlike Lowen, who has (in these capters) 2-range is in name only, Rebecca can easily chip (or better yet, finish) enemies without reprimand, and she could have 1 HP, 0 DEF (well, for the most part) during those chapters as far as I'm concerned because she's not getting hit. She's just not. On average, Rebecca starts to double most enemies (i.e cavs, pegasi, armors, mages; really, anything that's not mercs/myrms) around chapters 16-17 (she's around level 8 at this time in my S-rank run, IIRC), which is right at the time where you're no longer forced to use her. By this time, she's rocking around 13 ATK with an iron bow, doing around 12-20 damage a round (12 to cavs, 20 to mages), which while surpassed by a couple characters (Guy, Erk come to mind), is probably better than most of your team can boast atm. She doesn't "shine", not yet, but she's notably better than she started out as, and it's not hard to see this sharp rise in power will just keep on going. And I didn't even mention the free flying bags of experience which inhabit early-game HHM, which make leveling Rebecca that much easier.

Mid-game has Rebecca doing even better, and she can start to double using steel around chapter 21-23, depending on how high her level is and what enemy she targets. However, Dragon's Gate gives you a killer in chapter 20, which (like the Brave Bow is made for Wil) seems to designed just for Rebecca. Why? Well, it's a steel bow that weighs less and gives 30% more crit, and only has to last her until Vaida's chapter, at which point you can buy enough to last her the rest of the game. Rebecca will likely double just about everything from the time she gets the killer, lays sole claim to it (unless Wil is also around, but he's got the Brave Bow to his name in that case anyways), and starts to have an amazing PP. In most S-rank runs, your standard characters are around level 15 by chapter 24, which means Rebecca can do around 20 damage a round (assuming she gets unlucky with killer crits or is using steel) on cavs and is one of the few characters that can double the mercs in that map.

End-game...Rebecca dominates it just about as much as any archer ever could. She promotes, gets a notable +STR/+CON promotion, gets easy access to both silvers and killers, and just rapes everything. Never mind that she gets longbow, is fast enough to double with it on Luna druids, can use ballista in a pinch, make mince meat of any flier in the game, promoted or not, and becomes an absolute dodge tank. I find she tends to put Lowen to shame in overall usefulness by this point.

I find Rebecca being ever so slightly better overall (Lowen is better early game, worse end game; HHM S-rank early game w/o Marcus is pretty damned hard but way easier with him), and I gave Lowen a 6.5, and I go in 0.5 increments, so Beccy kind of naturally gets a 7/10 by that logic.

[Radiant Dragon]

Bad bases and being an Archer severely limit Rebecca's usefulness. She's nice early on to set up kills and avoid counters, but she's not likely to gain enough EXP this way to be useful. Train her, and you get a unit with great offensive stats that has a hard time putting them to use due to a lack of 1-range weaponry. FE7 is possibly the worst game in the series to be an Archer in, due to it's hordes of pathetic enemies. I'd go with a 4/10.

[whase]

she's hard to use early, though the pegasi make it easier. her growths are very nice, only downside is being stuck to 2 range

6/10

[Esaka]

2/10

Babying away!!

[Junkhead]

5.

She's honestly not that bad. Her base chip Dmg is below average, but she'll get going eventually with those decent offense growths. The fact that she can support Dart and Lowen for full Atk & Crit bonuses really help her.

[Shadow Mir]

4.5/10. Her start is bad, which is typical of archers, though she's good once she gets going. Also, though she has a few good supports, I find most of them of dubious value.

[riariadne]

Locked to player phase, and simply isn't very good at it. Even given a lot of input she really doesn't make up for it because she can only use that input on player phase. Second favorite character in the series or not, she is a poor unit. 2/10

[General Horace]

Oh come on guys, it's during Holidays, you could have waited for Elieson to get back. He acknowledged he was busy.

Anyway,

Rebecca gets a 1/10 for being forced in some chapters.

Her growths are pretty similar to Florina's, except Florina has much, much better base stats, and flies, and isn't locked to 2 range.

Edited December 29, 2011 by General Horace

[OrangeCrush980]

She's an archer and has bad bases. Plus her growths aren't even that good.

2/10.

[Raven]

Oh come on guys, it's during Holidays, you could have waited for Elieson to get back. He acknowledged he was busy.

If I remember rightly, he did say that it would be all right for someone else to start a topic if he was absent for a while. I don't think he would mind.

[Quintessence]

Fail in earlygame, she gets quite good by mid and endgame, Dart X Becca make a fiery duo XD, still, her bases and her performance at earlygame aren't such nice.

6/10

[Thor Odinson]

Terribad bases that take too long to grow out of. While her potential is nice, her leveling speed is ass. Low bases and lack of enemy phase really hurt her. Earlygame chip is meh. Not like she doubles anything early on but the slowest fucks anyway and those are either loldiers or Armours which she tinks.

3.5/10

[Kngt_Of_Titania]

Oh come on guys, it's during Holidays, you could have waited for Elieson to get back. He acknowledged he was busy.

Anyway,

Rebecca gets a 1/10 for being forced in some chapters.

Her growths are pretty similar to Florina's, except Florina has much, much better base stats, and flies, and isn't locked to 2 range.

1) Florina has terrible CON, 1 worse than Rebecca's, and loses massive AS from anything that's not a slim lance. By massive, I mean 5 AS loss from iron, 7 AS from javelin, and 9 (NINE...N-I-N-E) AS from steel. Never mind that slim lances are available in...what, one shop in the whole game (and that's in Noble Lady of Caelin, in a mode where you have no starting funds, and you lose a fair bit in the Funds rank if you stock up on them at this point if S ranking is concerned)? To add salt on the wound, Florina gets only 1 CON on promotion and *E* swords, and swords is what she really wants to use to be effective. Good luck trying to reach C swords for killer edge when you're stuck using iron swords for what seems like forever mid-to-end-game. Rebecca loses 4 AS from steel unpromoted, and should be using only silver/killers post-promo, only losing ONE AS on killer and none on silver as a sniper. Florina won't be doubling 2-range for a long, LONG, LOOOOONNNGG time, and by then Rebecca's 2 range is so superior it's not even funny.

2) Florina, without a decent amount of LHM use, is really, REALLY hard to level up. Noble Lady of Caelin has a ballista, and Whereabouts Unknown has craploads of bows, so Florina has issues leveling in either of those, if she does at all. And if your Florina is like level 3-4 going out of that, you better somehow get levels on the few shaman of Pirate Ship or you can basically rule out Florina's combat, mainly because she needs enough STR to make her slim lance use tolerable or enough SPD to double with iron.

3) Comparing Florina's combat to Rebecca's is hard, mainly because Florina is spending a ton of her time ferrying people. She lays sole claim as a flier until Fiora shows up, and she shaves turns before Dread Isle. She spends less time in combat, and can have a natural tendency to be underleveled.

4) And if we're giving people 1/10 because "they're not as good as Florina" means Bartre ranks somewhere around -5/10 and Marcus and Pent struggle to break 2/10. Florina easily lays claim to top 5 FE7 units.

5) Been a few days, G_H. Hope you had a good Christmas.

[Shin]

3/10

In NM's she's pretty workable, actually quite good once she gets going. However, in HM, she's hitting for peanuts and her durability really doesn't help at all.

[JaketheGr3at]

Isn't HHM implied in this? Because if it is then I give Rebecca a 2/10. And in my opinion that's being nice. Her durability is ridiculous and really never gets better, she can't counter attack and takes people protecting her to simply stay alive. In Normal mode I would give her a 7/10 where her durability isn't as much of an issue and after given some leveling/support time she owns this game.

Edited December 29, 2011 by JaketheGr3at

[Ϲharlie]

2/10

Rebecca sucks because the folks at Intelligent Systems aren't very good at designing archers. Archers should have really good offense from start to finish, and (ideally) they should also gain more experience like thieves.

[Rewjeo]

Rebecca really, really sucks. She has, like, the worst offense on your team to start out with, bar Serra (and really not by that much...) and, unlike everyone else, can only even apply this terrible offense once a turn. "Oh, but once you train her up-" Then she still sucks. For one thing, the amount of effort that it takes to train her up would only be worthwhile if she turned into a flying ORKO monster that never dies. But she doesn't. Not even close. No, she has acceptable offense after that absurd amount of EXP you have to get her via her crappy once a turn 10 ATK. Acceptable offense, and still only once a turn. Compared to the horde of mounted/flying units you can have running ahead of her and ORKOing enemies on EP thanks to javelins/handaxes. Even if you don't have a bunch of 8 MOV monsters running ahead of her, you've still got all of your other units doing like five times as much as she is. Now that you've trained her up, she's still only contributing more than, like, Karla, Wallace, Nino, and maybe Wil, depending on his SPD. And given what we poured into Rebecca, you could justify dumping EXP into Nino, too, making Nino better than a trained Rebecca. All Rebecca has going for her is existing in a few chapters for free. I mean, she can accomplish something them, right?

1.1/10

[Florete]

2/10. I love to use her, but bad bases + Archer + average growths = horrible unit, especially in this game with its hordes of enemies, most of which she can kill easily on her own phase (eventually) but can't do shit to on enemy phase.

[Shin]

Isn't HHM implied in this? Because if it is then I give Rebecca a 2/10. And in my opinion that's being nice. Her durability is ridiculous and really never gets better, she can't counter attack and takes people protecting her to simply stay alive. In Normal mode I would give her a 7/10 where her durability isn't as much of an issue and after given some leveling/support time she owns this game.

It is. However, I mentioned NM, highlighting that her durability and bad bases hinder her performance in HM.

[General Horace]

stuff

Florina's combat sucks ass versus anything but mages, yes, I was merely stating that comparison that Rebecca has roughly equal raw stats to Florina. I gave Becca a 1/10 because she is kinda terrible in her forced chapters and takes way too long to get to mediocrity. Florina has only one less AS at base then Rebecca with Iron, and has all LHM to establish a level lead. Becca isn't getting a lot of exp in her forced chapters unless you're babying for ranked runs, which I am not assuming.

[Iris]

3/10

I really like using FE7's archers. That doesn't mean they're any good, though. Wil probably has better bases compared to Rebecca considering LHM, but if not, she doesn't do much, anyways, especially on enemy phase. Her bases also suck.