Shadow Mir Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Briefly coming back from a long hiatus to say that Bulbasaur is overrated. Having Grass as your only attacking type (that and...Tackle until you get Strength) really sucks. The only real niche it fills is killing Water Pokemon, and even that can be solved by giving Nidoking or Kadabra or someone Shockwave. Sure it can take care of Ground/Rock Pokemon too, but they have so many weaknesses its not a huge contribution to easily deal with them. Then there are the negatives. Grass is annoyingly resisted by seven different types (including Poison and Flying, two of the more common types) severely limiting its offense. I think people are underestimating how poor a Grass-only offense really is. Bulbasaur just doesn't have much flexibility, and I really don't see it being much worse than a Pokemon like Charmander who actually learns moves to cover his weaknesses (Metal Claw, and later Brick Break). As for Rock/Grounds, Geodudes and Gravelers are liable to blow up in your face, TKOing the poor sap who didn't one shot them (hint: They have no qualms about exploding on the first turn). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Draper Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 (edited) . Edited July 5, 2020 by Don Draper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 done, Bulba drop to where? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I think Articuno > Magnemite. IIRC, you can get both Magnemite and Articuno as soon as you have Surf, so they have basically the same availability, but Articuno has a much higher level. Neither of them are much good at Blaine, but Articuno can IB some Groundies of Giovanni's, while Magnemite can't do anything at all. Magnemite wins at Lorelei, neither of them are much good at Bruno, Magnemite has a slight win at Agatha because of resistances, but Articuno wins at Lance, who is more difficult than Lorelei. Then both are fairly even at Rival, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titamon Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Just looking through the list again..... Things that should rise: -Clefairy: Comes early, evolves with the moon stone, has decent stats, a large TM pool, learns Softboiled and gets STAB Mega Punch/Kick. -Jigglypuff: Same as Clefairy but with worse stats and it lacks Softboiled (which is a shame because he would actually use it better than Clefairy) It's at least better than bottom tier. -Voltorb: Shows up right before the Rock Tunnel, has high speed and OK special attack. He should at least be above Electabuzz. -Koffing: Has access to Flamethrower, Shadow Ball and Thunderbolt, which come off decent attacking stats. In addition, it has 1 weakness and solid defensive stats, it's only issue is availability. Things that should drop: -Machop: It's slow as dirt, not really that bulky and fighting type attacks are actually pretty bad mid-game due to the abundance of ghosts, psychics, and poison types. -The Hitmons: See Machop, except they don't have speed issues. -Tangela: A pure grass type with a crap movepool and bad availability; enough said -Magmar: Shows up before the last gym and slightly under-leveled. Also fire isn't really an in-demand type during late-game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 IOS SIGHTING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 Just looking through the list again..... Things that should rise: -Clefairy: Comes early, evolves with the moon stone, has decent stats, a large TM pool, learns Softboiled and gets STAB Mega Punch/Kick. -Jigglypuff: Same as Clefairy but with worse stats and it lacks Softboiled (which is a shame because he would actually use it better than Clefairy) It's at least better than bottom tier. -Voltorb: Shows up right before the Rock Tunnel, has high speed and OK special attack. He should at least be above Electabuzz. -Koffing: Has access to Flamethrower, Shadow Ball and Thunderbolt, which come off decent attacking stats. In addition, it has 1 weakness and solid defensive stats, it's only issue is availability. Things that should drop: -Machop: It's slow as dirt, not really that bulky and fighting type attacks are actually pretty bad mid-game due to the abundance of ghosts, psychics, and poison types. -The Hitmons: See Machop, except they don't have speed issues. -Tangela: A pure grass type with a crap movepool and bad availability; enough said -Magmar: Shows up before the last gym and slightly under-leveled. Also fire isn't really an in-demand type during late-game. Clefairy is rising soon. Jigglypuff is mediocre, and has shit defenses. Voltorb-ok Koffing-IDK Machop & Hitmons, Lorelei says hi, and they 2HKO anything that doesn't resist fighting. Tangela-IDK Magmar- Well, I really don't know. If it drops, then so will Ponyta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 Rose Clefairy, Articuno, Lapras/ Dropped Magnemite and Abra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 Ok, some material to work on. Where to put Jynx Poliwag and Dratini rise -Poliwrath has fighting stab. -Lorelei's 4 Ice/water types dun like fighting stab -also, it helps with Bruno, taking out Onix and resisting fighting -and, with Lance, it does IB/Blizzard or something IDk what else -Dragonair, lvl 31, safari zone fishing. Should rise close to Kanga IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titamon Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Machop & Hitmons, Lorelei says hi, and they 2HKO anything that doesn't resist fighting. Any decent electric type can handle Lorelei, so what the fighters do is nothing special. Against the rest of the Elite 4 they are either useless(Agatha, Lance) or mediocre(Gary, Bruno) And they are really bad Mid-game. They have terrible Gym performance (Eirika, Koga, Sabrina) , They are awful against team Rocket and flat out useless at Pokemon Tower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 Sigh...I have a fondness for Poisons/Fightings... Btw, Hitmonlee has a shitton of sp def, so its a decent one against Lorelei, and can still do alright vs Sabrina with Secret Power/Rock Slide if needed.... But, yeah, better than Slugma in HGSS Ok, but about the other points Jynx to where??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titamon Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Sigh...I have a fondness for Poisons/Fightings... Btw, Hitmonlee has a shitton of sp def, so its a decent one against Lorelei, and can still do alright vs Sabrina with Secret Power/Rock Slide if needed.... But, yeah, better than Slugma in HGSS Ok, but about the other points Jynx to where??? I have no experience with Jynx so I wouldn't know exactly, but on paper she doesn't look that bad. Ice/Psychic stab with good speed and special attack and an experience boost, her only flaw is that low defense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 Plus, exp boost because in-game trade mon. Heck, Ice punch+psychic+sweet kiss+CM fucks the E4 nicely. Imo, its like Starmie, without water stab, but with less resources and can come at a higher lvl that the scrubby staryu. I mean, Poliwhirls can come around lvl 30+, and Jynx have ice punch when we get it. Its only stopped by stell types, and when are steel types dangerous in FRLG? It deals well with Rock/Ground, due to lolsp def on those. Fire types not called Ninetails/houndour fall swiftly. And, sweet/lovely kiss confuse/sleep opponents. We can get Starmie at around the Same time we get Jynx. So, if noone objects, I'll move it to right below Staryu, because Staryu has TB/Surf and Jynx doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titamon Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Well Jynx does get Water Pulse, not as good as Surf but still serviceable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 What's water pulse doing lategame that Ice Punch doesn't ? I guess it can damage charizard/arcanine....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Seems to me that Caterpie should at least be above Tangela. Caterpie gets access to more accurate Spore and Powder moves (Tangela needs to use a move relearner to get access to Sleep Powder, too), is faster, around for longer iirc (don't you have to wait until you get Surf to get Tangela). Butterfree also gets some nice psychic moves like Confusion and Psybeam that are great against the tons of poison-types, and can learn Psychic and Dream Eater, while Tangela is limited pretty much to Grass moves, which have worse coverage. You'd also have to expend the Giga Drain TM on it since Tangela's strongest move initially is Mega Drain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakusa Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) I'd like to argue Vaporeon above Growlithe. o3o Fire doesn't really have good coverage in Gen III in general, and it's almost Fire-locked, which makes me cringe. Growlithe/Arcanine gets done in by Rock, Water, Ground types, which are relatively common. Vaporeon, on the other hand, has great defensive typing, being weak only to Grass and Electric and regaining HP from Water, resisting Ice, Fire, and Steel. However, Vaporeon's movepool is more diverse forever with a respectable SpA stat and can increase its durability with Acid Armor and Baton Pass it as well. While Growlithe/Arcanine does better against Erika and both are about even when it comes to Sabrina and Koga. Vaporeon has a significant edge against Blaine, and Arcanine doesn't want anything to do with Giovanni unless you're sure it can one-shot any of Giovanni's Pokemon. Vaporeon walls Lorelei all day when Arcanine's afraid of the Water-typing, Bruno packs Ground and Rock-type moves, so unless you're confident about a one-shot, I won't recommend it. Agatha's a tool, so both of them can do well, and Lance walls Arcanine completely. Vaporeon can at least dish out damage with a 2x or 4x effective Ice/Aurora Beam against most of his team or Surf to win against Aerodactyl and tank hits. Against Gary/Green/Blue/WhateverYouCallHim, I want to say Vaporeon wins here, too, due to sheer versatility. Edited March 7, 2012 by Sona Buvelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I'd say Arcanine is better for Lorelei because it at least threatens Jynx (I would never switch Vaporeon in against any of Lorelei's Pokemon because it simply has nothing decent to attack them with - besides maybe Surfing for Jynx, but you don't want to get sleep'd). One advantage Arcanine has over Vaporeon is speed. Vap is pretty slow, while Arcanine will almost always go first against the weaker mooks in random encounters. Vap certainly has better coverage and the moves of the correct type (Surf + Ice Beam is really good in Kanto), though, with better matchups against the gyms and E4 all around. A big problem with Arcanine is that it doesn't learn Flamethrower unless you postpone your Growlithe's evolution until lv. 49, which is a horrible idea. Flame Wheel at lv. 31 is also a bit late and depending on when you evolve for far better base stats, you might not even see that one. Blaine gives you the Fire Blast TM a bit too late, so I would say training Arcanine is seriously inefficient. Vap just takes the free Surf, would appreciate Ice Beam, conserves PP by attacking ghosts and psychics with Bite, and faces no such problems. I would personally put Vaporeon somewhere above Snorlax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 Money isn't a problem, we can get flamethrower for Growlithe/vulpix/flareon asap. Of course, any water with good sp attack and either great bulk or massive speed or both is awesome in kanto. Also, baton pass utility is not a good point for eevee, postponing evolution until like lvl 30ish. Also, Loreleis lapras has a lvl advantage, and body slam... And thunder (I think). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Uh, any responses to Caterpie over Tangela? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Caterpies been moved up. Tangela needs bottom now, any objections? Also, Arcanine may rise a slot, it arrives in an area with a lot of scrub trainers, and can insta evolve as soon as celedon. Buy flamethrower and dig/secret power, keep bite, and its pretty good. Also, Arcanines got some damn impressive att/sp att/spd too! So, if it gets the resources it wants, it can plow through erika, sabrina, do heavy damage to koga, dig on blaine, and do heavy damage to Giovannis none-rock types, because ground does not resist fire. Edited March 8, 2012 by The Insane One Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titamon Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I have to agree with Anouleth. Caterpie is much better than where the list has him currently, and he is easily better than Tangela. IMO he is a decent mid to upper-mid Pokemon. While Tangela should really be in bottom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 Ok, but Caterpies one problem is durability. But hell, its a support mon with psychic attacks. Mid of upper mid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Yeah, Caterpie may have low bases, but it has a quick promotion, good supports as well as some nice mobility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 Yeah, Caterpie may have low bases, but it has a quick promotion, good supports as well as some nice mobility. Dude, this isn't FE. Mobility in pokemon? Does not compute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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