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Galenforcer

Do you hate Smogon?

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I always read that dozens of people hate that site.

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Not rly. Very concise info.

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Nah, not really. I mean, If I said that I did I'd be a hypocrite because I use that site to get a lot of information on certain Pokemon so that I can learn how to use them competitively.

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Why should I? it has relevant information and it's a website. I suppose there's other websites but that doesn't mean that I should hate it for no particular reason.

I suppose some people might not like it because they don't agree with some of the strategies or some shit?

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Nah, they have solid strategies and give a general idea of what the current metagame is like. Plus sometimes they do all the damage calculations based on EVs for you which saves a lot of time.

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i do hate that site

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no

i mean

tons of people get incredibly butt devastated at smogon for various reasons, which is pretty amusing to watch

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The only problem with Smogon is that they're excessively oriented towards the competitive battling, and their rendering of the older games in themselves (as in the actual process of playing the game with efficient options and whatnot) is superficial and "complete" - all the tier topics are conveniently locked with no further discussion possible on behalf of any side. It's like if Serenes was entirely dedicated to wi-fi Shadow Dragon or something, the only difference being that the competitive is indeed a deep enough thing. If I want to play other human players, Smogon is the first place I'll go for theorycrafting; if I just want to better my control of the in-game, it's a resource that might as well not exist.

To sum up, your interest in Smogon is probably in direct proportion to how much you want to face other human players with artificially set up teams.

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I would like to take a moment to remind a couple of you about the forum rules which state:

Please use proper grammar, spelling, capitalization, and punctuation when posting. The only exception is if English is not your first language, in which case we understand, and encourage you to ask others if you are having difficulties communicating something.

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Smogon is a site for competitive battle data.

Why would anyone hate that resource?

Its tier lists are made based on hardcore factual evidence, down to the damage points dealt for just about every worthwhile attack combination.

It's the "elitists" that people tend to dislike, spouting facts quoted from smogon like they have nothing better to do.

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I use it a lot actually. The only thing i don't like is their rule against asking for hacked (legal in stats and moves but not in creation) pokemon.

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Smogon's great for most things. But their forums suck because they're overly restrictive, even on the off-topic forums.

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The only problem with Smogon is that they're excessively oriented towards the competitive battling, and their rendering of the older games in themselves (as in the actual process of playing the game with efficient options and whatnot) is superficial and "complete" - all the tier topics are conveniently locked with no further discussion possible on behalf of any side. It's like if Serenes was entirely dedicated to wi-fi Shadow Dragon or something, the only difference being that the competitive is indeed a deep enough thing. If I want to play other human players, Smogon is the first place I'll go for theorycrafting; if I just want to better my control of the in-game, it's a resource that might as well not exist.

To sum up, your interest in Smogon is probably in direct proportion to how much you want to face other human players with artificially set up teams.

You can always just use Pokesav to save time can't you? I mean as long as you don't cheat (lol 255 EVS on every stat!) and stay realistic that should be fine imo. I mean it's not cheating, it's just saving you the 876986 years it takes to get perfect IV bred pokemon to level 100 with the perfect movesets.

EDIT: I'm actually curious to see what your opinions are on legally hacked pokemon.

Edited by Helios

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Nope. Can't hate what I don't use.

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You can always just use Pokesav to save time can't you? I mean as long as you don't cheat (lol 255 EVS on every stat!) and stay realistic that should be fine imo. I mean it's not cheating, it's just saving you the 876986 years it takes to get perfect IV bred pokemon to level 100 with the perfect movesets.

EDIT: I'm actually curious to see what your opinions are on legally hacked pokemon.

They don't allow pokesav pokemon, even if their stats and moves are legal. At least thats what i recall from looking at their rules.

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The page you linked to, while not entirely complete, does provide a good amount of both objective and subjective data, especially for "perfect game" players willing to raise a lv. 100 team via natural means, and I can't deny that it showcases the hard work of the site's members (I presume).

What I'm mostly referring to are those lengthy discussion topics that are so typical of this site, perhaps more than any other (maybe my criticism of Smogon would therefore be unfair?). There is an in-game tier topic/on-site page for every generation, yet there's no space offered to keep it going, continue it in some way since a thing like a tier list is never truly complete, moreso if created by a small group of players. For instance, Cubone is in the highest tier for Fire Red/Leaf Green, yet it's very elusive if you want to catch it, and its held item - its only redeeming quality - has a very unlikely rate of appearing on the Cubone you do catch. I'm not saying I'm all eager to argue about everything with the people on the website, I'd be more than comfortable just logically following what the others are saying in a discussion that arises - main reason I lurk on these forums pretty much.

It may be a big community with its in-jokes and elitist sub-culture to the few "insiders", but to those on the outside it doesn't appear nearly as lively.

You can always just use Pokesav to save time can't you? I mean as long as you don't cheat (lol 255 EVS on every stat!) and stay realistic that should be fine imo. I mean it's not cheating, it's just saving you the 876986 years it takes to get perfect IV bred pokemon to level 100 with the perfect movesets.

EDIT: I'm actually curious to see what your opinions are on legally hacked pokemon.

I'm not sure why you thought I was talking of hacking Pokemon EVs/natures, because I was talking about not-quite-casual runs through the game that attempt to beat it in an optimal way (efficiency, speedrunning, self-imposed challenge, etc.). I am curious if you know what the reason for the ban you mentioned is, because otherwise I'm not sure what to respond with.

I would like to take a moment to remind a couple of you about the forum rules which state:

I do not like having to state my ethnicity to avoid unreasonable conflict, but if any problem arises with my miscommunicating a mesage, I would prefer to be alerted in private. I do try to word myself as transparently as possible.

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I do not like having to state my ethnicity to avoid unreasonable conflict, but if any problem arises with my miscommunicating a mesage, I would prefer to be alerted in private. I do try to word myself as transparently as possible.

Don't worry; your post wasn't the problem.

To be on-topic myself. I do visit Smogon myself every now and again to look for a decent moveset. That said, I'm not too into competitive battling.

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Dozens of morons hate Smogon. As a resource for competitive battling, it's unmatched. The only reason people dislike it is because it "kills creativity," which is a silly argument in and of itself.

You've also got to realize that they obviously see Pokemon from a very different perspective then Serenes Forest does. Most SF discussion topics are in-game tier lists and drafts. For the most part (And there ARE in-game tier lists on Smogon) that is not Smogon's focus, they are focused on team building, movesets and data for competitive Pokemon.

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I'm not sure why you thought I was talking of hacking Pokemon EVs/natures, because I was talking about not-quite-casual runs through the game that attempt to beat it in an optimal way (efficiency, speedrunning, self-imposed challenge, etc.). I am curious if you know what the reason for the ban you mentioned is, because otherwise I'm not sure what to respond with.

I know, but I also thought you were talking about wifi battling and just responded to that. I apologize for that.

Could you enlighten me as to why it's banned again? I used to know why back when I did competitive battling but I can't really remember right now. Plus I'm trying to help my friend with his project and that's stealing all my focus right now. I guess I can't really see why it would be illegal as long as you play fair and don't give every pokemon moves and abilities they shouldn't have and all that.

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It's a fantastic resource, but they've gotten way too ban-happy lately. I couldn't stick around and remain sane after they banned Excadrill and Thundurus.

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Action Replay is definitely not banned on Smogon, in fact, there are people on Smogon who put in their sigs alongside friend codes "May use legal hacks." If you're trying to trade off those hacks as legitimate Pokemon to other people, you will get in trouble, but the site has nothing against Pokemon hacked for battle purposes.

Edit: And at the above, yeah, I stopped following the metagame heavily after they banned Exca and Thundurus, which I felt was way excessive.

Edited by Stark

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You have four pages of warning history built up. Of course people aren't gonna be lenient with you.

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You have four pages of warning history built up. Of course people aren't gonna be lenient with you.

Four pages? He should be grateful that you guys have bent over backwards and given him so many second chances xp

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