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PKL

[FE10] The people's opinion draft tier list

44 posts in this topic

This is the result of the Rate the Unit thread in Tier List form. Feel free to discuss, argue or convince me to change something.


[b]Haar Tier[/b]
Haar

[b]Free Tier[/b]
Ike
Sothe
Rafiel
Reyson
Leanne
Micaiah
Black Knight
Geoffrey
Lehran

[b]Top Tier[/b]
Titania
Nolan
Edward
Oscar
Boyd
Jill
Nephenee

[b]High Tier[/b]
Zihark
Volug
Marcia
Gatrie
Aran
Nailah
Mia

[b]Upper Mid Tier[/b]
Elincia
Tanith
Ilyana
Janaff
Ulki
Nealuchi
Soren

[b]Mid Tier[/b]
Sigrun
Shinon
Mordecai
Ranulf
Calill
Laura
Rhys
Rolf
Tibarn
Naesala
Skrimir

[b]Lower Mid Tier[/b]
Heather
Kieran
Makalov
Brom
Lucia
Caineghis
Giffca
Tauroneo
Sanaki
Lethe
Danved

[b]Low Tier[/b]
Tormod
Meg
Muarim
Astrid
Leonardo
Kyza
Vika
Nasir
Stefan
Volke
Ena
Fiona

[b]Bottom Tier[/b]
Lyre
Mist
Renning
Bastian
Gareth
Kurthnaga

[b]Trash Tier[/b]
Oliver

[b]Changes:[/b]
Ulki moved up to below Janaff.
Naesala dropped below Nealuchi.
Fiona moved over Renning and Bastian.
Sigrun moved over Skrimir.
Shinon dropped to Mid.
Tibarn and Naesala moved to Mid Tier.
Tanith to Upper Mid.
Giffca moved to below Caineghis.
Leonardo moved above Kyza.
Mist dropped to Bottom Tier.
Elincia over Tanith.
Oscar over Boyd.
Fiona out of Bottom Tier.
Sigrun over Shinon. Shes now Queen of Mid Tier.
Mordecai over Ranulf.
Rhys over Rolf.
Lowered Tibarn, Naesala and Skrimir even further.

[b]Things that I have doubts with:[/b]
Tibarn and Naesala still too high. Edited by PKL

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Fiona is better, I can tell you that. Bastian only has one chapter before 4-E, while Fiona can suffice in 4-2 with a BEXP dump and can help out kill gauge in 3-6 (though that might not be a good idea, since they won't be able to attack), even though I didn't deploy her there. Also, ferrying in 1-7. Silver knight caps are also pretty good, if she ever reaches it. Also I'd say that her > Renning, but eh.

I think Mia should drop a little because this isn't HM and her doubling isn't really significant. Maybe she should be at the top of upper mid, because I don't think she's really high tier material in a draft.

I also don't think there should a a huge tier gap between Sigrun and Tanith. Tanith could stand to drop just a little. Tibarn should not be that WTFhigh. I get that he has WTFstats, but he lacks WTFavailability. Above Ulki/Janaff, really? Also Ulki/Janaff should be right next to each other. Edited by CR-S01

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[quote name='CR-S01' date='16 March 2012 - 02:48 PM' timestamp='1331923681' post='1894524']
Fiona is better, I can tell you that. Bastian only has one chapter before 4-E, while Fiona can suffice in 4-2 with a BEXP dump and can help out kill gauge in 3-6 (though that might not be a good idea, since they won't be able to attack), even though I didn't deploy her there. Also, ferrying in 1-7. Silver knight caps are also pretty good, if she ever reaches it. Also I'd say that her > Renning, but eh.

I think Mia should drop a little because this isn't HM and her doubling isn't really significant. Maybe she should be at the top of upper mid, because I don't think she's really high tier material in a draft.

I also don't think there should a a huge tier gap between Sigrun and Tanith. Tanith could stand to drop just a little. Tibarn should not be that WTFhigh. I get that he has WTFstats, but he lacks WTFavailability. Above Ulki/Janaff, really? Also Ulki/Janaff should be right next to each other.
[/quote]

I agree with this post. Specially mia part. Mia isn't that special in Drafts. Also, Ulki is far too low regardless of whether he is about the same as Janaff or not, Ulki still has better offense than Neal will ever have. Ulki should be above Naesala too (but thats with the argument if janaff roughly = Ulki) or Janaff should drop below Naesala.

Rhys should go above rolf, because rolf has crap part 3 play. even with cross bows, he isn't going to be doing significant damage to anything, while rhys can get a light forge and stuff to attack. He may also get the odd crown (i.e. we had titania) early and be cool with it too while rolf can't say the same thing. Shinon should drop, honestly, i don't see bows/bowguns working very well during part 3 for all those chapters.

Mordecai > ranulf. Because tigers > Cats plus better availability.

Cain over Lucia. I think mist and ena should go to bottom. Ena should be close to Gareth, she is about as useless as him. Tauroneo should go above Lucia on terms of Tauro helping us get an easier 3 turns + availability (by 1 turn). He also isn't as frail and while he slows down come part 4, its a bit easier for him to ketchup. Also Callil could possibly go up. She can 3 turn 2-E with a BEXP Dump, + 3 turn 3-9 with some luck (Yes i know its luck but the possibility is there). She is also a mage in the desert which is awesome better than the tigers/lions in that regard.

Tl;dr

Mia down
Ulki to come close to Janaff, while Neal comes below Ulki
Mordecai > Ranulf
Cain > Lucia
Mist and ena to bottom
Lucia should go down over all
Callil up
Rhys > Rolf (and he could possibly go up even more)....
Shinon should go down.

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Yeah, there are some wtf placings indeed. Tibarn and Naesala are way too high. Theres no way they are that good in drafts. Especially with their availability. You guys rated them too high :p. Also, what is wrong with janaff ulki?

Slayer- I disagree with lucia being worse than cain. She helps a lot in 4-2 and she can shove/smite another unit in 4-5 for a 2 turn (or be shoved/smited herself). Shes also got a really good class for endgame and innate parity. Cain's limited availability sucks. Ulki and Janaff are definetely better than Naesala and Tibarn...Mia is really good for Part 3, although she is worse than most other GM picks due to her poor 1-2 range of course. Dont know if she should drop though. Rhys might indeed be better than Rolf and I agree that Shinon is WAYYYY too high. Edited by PKL

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[quote name='PKL' date='16 March 2012 - 03:23 PM' timestamp='1331925801' post='1894553']
Yeah, there are some wtf placings indeed. Tibarn and Naesala are way too high. Theres no way they are that good in drafts. Especially with their availability. You guys rated them too high :p. Also, what is wrong with janaff ulki?
[/quote]

The only reason Janaff is over ulki is that str lead which honestly isn't too impressive in a draft... Thats why i think they are rougly equal. Edited by SlayerX

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Either way, they should be right next to each other. I'd say just moving Ulki above Naesala would work fine. And Naesala could be under Nealuchi because he shaves a decent amount of turns in part 2.

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See my edit in the above post Slayer :p. And I think Janaff's slightly better offense does give him an edge. Ulki needs the drop to match Janaff in offense and honestly, that minor gap in str means the difference between ORKOs and 2RKOs when theyre in wildheart form. Ulki needs Tear to ORKO some things which sometimes makes him lose out on Strike over Janaff by some maps where he can just naturally ORKO enemies and build his strike more. I had Janaff in SS by 4-5 once. And the time I had Ulki he never reached SS (barely) due to early Tear :(. (he gets less strike if he procs it in the first hit )

EDIT: Where do you 2 think Shinon should be moved to? Edited by PKL

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I think Leo can rise. He saves a bit of turns early game and 2 turns 3-13, plus marksman range in endgame. Like, above Kyza at least.

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Agree. Added some doubts and list of changes to the OP. Also, please state where I should move which character next time.

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Shinon to top of mid? I think Elincia is fine where she's at. She saves a lot of turns in the chapters she exists in, but her availability isn't particularly good. And uh, Tanith to below Elincia and Sigrun at least above Skrimir because of 3-11 ferrying.

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@ CR- Disagree on Tanith below Elincia. 3-11 ferrying + shes the most reliable of the Peggies at combat. Dropped shinon to top of mid. Siggy moved over Skrimir.

I think Leo should move up to above kyza too. Not sure where Mia should drop, if she even needs to drop. I thinkTibarn needs a huuuuuge drop as well as Naesala but not sure where to, exactly...

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Elincia does save 4 turns on penalties in 2-E, Tanith saves about 3-4 turns in 3-11. You can get like 7 turns there if you have a pally. I guess Tanith has better 2 range though. Maybe above Elincia, but not high tier.

I'd say Tibarn/Naesala in Mid, above Skrimir, right next to each other.

Cain should be next to Giffca too, formshift doesn't earn him a whole tier difference. Edited by CR-S01

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[quote name='PKL' date='16 March 2012 - 03:23 PM' timestamp='1331925801' post='1894553']
Slayer- I disagree with lucia being worse than cain. She helps a lot in 4-2 and she can shove/smite another unit in 4-5 for a 2 turn (or be shoved/smited herself). [/quote]

Alright, wasn't sure why she was above Cain.

[quote]And I think Janaff's slightly better offense does give him an edge. Ulki needs the drop to match Janaff in offense and honestly, that minor gap in str means the difference between ORKOs and 2RKOs when theyre in wildheart form. Ulki needs Tear to ORKO some things which sometimes makes him lose out on Strike over Janaff by some maps where he can just naturally ORKO enemies and build his strike more. I had Janaff in SS by 4-5 once. And the time I had Ulki he never reached SS (barely) due to early Tear :(. (he gets less strike if he procs it in the first hit )[/quote]

I'm not arguing Ulki > janaff here. I'm saying Ulki right below janaff. While Janaff may have a str lead i don't find it hard to make ulki get to its level. And Adept should have a similar function to tear if we are concerned that Tear will make Ulki not reach SS.


Also, I think mia should go above ilyana... and since shinon dropped to where he is now, Mordecai > Shinon. Sure no 2 range for mordy, but he is atleast killing most things that come at him. Since there are bound to be more 1 rangers than 2 rangers.

Also, i'd like to know why you have doubts with Rhys > Rolf, Mordy > Ranulf.

Also, i don't think there is a need for an oliver only tier. Considering his rescue shenanigans are at least the same as what kurth is contributing. Edited by SlayerX

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I havent used rhys myself :p. I will put him above rolf when i can edit again. Mordecai>shinon i agree.

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Err, let me start from worst to best...

- Oliver isn't deserving trash tier, he's bad but he's doing more than Kurth, staffbot. Trolliver is helping a 1 turn in 4-E-4 and maybe in 4-E-3 where Kurth isn't, he's just hitting, if RNG says so...I suggest placing him...lol over Kurth, I don't know if over Gareth, maybe. Though Oliver requires Rafiel but he can be rescue dropped, or get to Oliver by turn 8.

- Why the heck is Ena so high? She's not doing much, stat bonus aren't that necessary with her/Gareth, I suggest Ena over Gareth.

- Bastian over Renning, he's in 4-5, can help with Rescue in that chapter as well as in 4-E, Renning is just running and hammering or Soling enemies.

- IMO, Fiona over Lyre, both need plenty of resources and BEXP help. Lyre has gauge and no 1-2 range. Both are sort of fillers in their parts and both are pretty mediocre, but Fiona is helping more in P4, specially in Hawk where every cav is going.

- Mist over Stefan, availability wins this time. Rescue and staffbot are more juicy to draft than a filler for 4-E. Mist helping in P3 at least.

- Lol where's Astrid? She's two times in the list.

- Leo over Meg. He's helping a 4 turn in 1-1, he's 2 turning 3-13, he's CROSSING the RIVER in 3-6, beastfoe for 3-6 and 4-5. Meg's movement is meh, she has 1-2 range but Leo's winning her upon promotion.

- I think Sanaki needs to go up, her contributions in the Silver Route are really good, as every sage in the game she's needing Resolve + an extra skill for durability, performance, etc. I think over Tauros or over Lucia.

- [s]Heather over Rolf[/s]

- Why Rhys is so low? Maybe Rhys over Ranulf? Even over Shinon? A Saint is more draftable than any of those cause they're vital for shaving turns in the desert. Well I don't know if over Shinon. But Rhys, Calill and Laura need to go up.
*Calill is 3 turning 3-9 and helping in the desert.
*Laura needs help in P1, but she 1 turns 3-13 and helps also in the desert.
I can accept moving them up below Sigrun even.

- The difference between Sigrun and Tanith is really big. Sigrun should go up, laguz aren't that good in drafts except if you're using Volug, or having them as fillers in their parts and dealing good dmg to auras, but throughout the game, they aren't so good, except for ravens, hawks and maybe tigers and Skrimir. I think Sigrun over Shinon; Shinon is way too high.

- Aran is a bit high IMO, maybe...no leave it as is... :facepalm:

Well that's it...


[quote name='PKL' date='16 March 2012 - 04:32 PM' timestamp='1331933554' post='1894720']
I havent used rhys myself :p. I will put him above rolf when i can edit again. Mordecai>shinon i agree.
[/quote]
- Rhys needs babying but his contributions are better than RoflRolf's.

- Yes, Mordy > Shinon Edited by Quintessence

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[quote name='Quintessence' date='16 March 2012 - 06:07 PM' timestamp='1331935629' post='1894766']Err, let me start from worst to best... Oliver isn't deserving trash tier, he's bad but he's doing more than Kurth, staffbot. Trolliver is helping a 1 turn in 4-E-4 and maybe in 4-E-3 where Kurth isn't, he's just hitting, if RNG says so...I suggest placing him...lol over Kurth, I don't know if over Gareth, maybe. Though Oliver requires Rafiel but he can be rescue dropped, or get to Oliver by turn 8. Why the heck is Ena so high? She's not doing much, stat bonus aren't that necessary with her/Gareth, I suggest Ena over Gareth. Bastian over Renning, he's in 4-5, can help with Rescue in that chapter as well as in 4-E, Renning is just running and hammering or Soling enemies. IMO, Fiona over Lyre, both need plenty of resources and BEXP help. Lyre has gauge and no 1-2 range. Both are sort of fillers in their parts and both are pretty mediocre, but Fiona is helping more in P4, specially in Hawk where every cav is going. Mist over Stefan, availability wins this time. Rescue and staffbot are more juicy to draft than a filler for 4-E. Mist helping in P3 at least. Lol where's Astrid? She's two times in the list. Leo over Meg. He's helping a 4 turn in 1-1, he's 2 turning 3-13, he's CROSSING the RIVER in 3-6, beastfoe for 3-6 and 4-5. Meg's movement is meh, she has 1-2 range but Leo's winning her upon promotion. I think Sanaki needs to go up, her contributions in the Silver Route are really good, as every sage in the game she's needing Resolve + an extra skill for durability, performance, etc. I think over Tauros or over Lucia. <strike>Heather over Rolf</strike> Why Rhys is so low? Maybe Rhys over Ranulf? Even over Shinon? A Saint is more draftable than any of those cause they're vital for shaving turns in the desert. Well I don't know if over Shinon. But Rhys, Calill and Laura need to go up.<br />*Calill is 3 turning 3-9 and helping in the desert.*Laura needs help in P1, but she 1 turns 3-13 and helps also in the desert. I can accept moving them up below Sigrun even. The difference between Sigrun and Tanith is really big. Sigrun should go up, laguz aren't that good in drafts except if you're using Volug, or having them as fillers in their parts and dealing good dmg to auras, but throughout the game, they aren't so good, except for ravens, hawks and maybe tigers and Skrimir. I think Sigrun over Shinon; Shinon is way too high. Aran is a bit high IMO, maybe...no leave it as is... <img src='http://serenesforest.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/Facepalm_emote_gif.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':facepalm:' Well that's it... Rhys needs babying but his contributions are better than RoflRolf's. Yes, Mordy>Shinon[/quote] First of all, Oliver is not getting recruited. Why go through the trouble? Hes not even worth it. Hes another micaiah in endgame and guess what? Miccy is free. Second, I already said rhys<rolf is going to be fixed when i can edit it. Third, Sigrun needs like, every statbooster in the game to even start to resemble the other 2 peggies. Shes definetely worse than them by a lot. Fourth, Aran is not a bit high. Hes fine where he is. He comes early and helps a lot. Fifth, mist sucks @$$. Sixth, sanaki is not better than lucia OR tauros. Tauros can take the boots in 3-12 and 2 turn it and wtfpwn ike. He can also help in hawk army. Lucia being drafted makes the 4 turn harder but still possible in 2-2. Then she can take your BEXP and help a whole lot with a tempest blade/sword forge and be an epic endgame unit with parity awesomeness and VK. Sure, sanaki helps in silver but she comes late and needs a wing/resolve and daunt/miracle to even work. She also cant really rush the desert as much as other mages.

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Oscar>Neph isn't something I can understand.

-We have Neph in p2.
-BEXP Dump neph in 2-e for Nephenel.
-Oscar has horse and earth aff, and thats it.
-Neph is Mia with good 1-2 range.

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[quote name='PKL' date='16 March 2012 - 05:33 PM' timestamp='1331937203' post='1894805']
First of all, Oliver is not getting recruited. Why go through the trouble? Hes not even worth it. Hes another micaiah in endgame and guess what? Miccy is free.
[/quote]
But he's there if you're needing another Rescuebot if you need two units to kill Lehran.
I don't know, maybe leaving him below Kurth in the regular tier list... :unsure:

And if you don't consider recruiting him, then lolremove him from the list.

[quote name='PKL' date='16 March 2012 - 05:33 PM' timestamp='1331937203' post='1894805']
Third, Sigrun needs like, every statbooster in the game to even start to resemble the other 2 peggies. Shes definetely worse than them by a lot.
[/quote]
No she's not needing almost every stat booster. I can consider the Drop and the Robe, and maybe even the Wing, nothing more. Her defenses are fine, skl and lck need nothing. I'm not saying she's better than the other two, she's worse but not that far from Tanith.

[quote name='PKL' date='16 March 2012 - 05:33 PM' timestamp='1331937203' post='1894805']
Fifth, mist sucks @$$.
[/quote]
She's not worse than Ena, she has P3!!! Volke isn't doing much in 4-5, maybe rushing to Izuka. Stefan has nothing to do in 4-3, and Mist has all P3 to get a bit good. I know she's completely mediocre but I prefer drafting her than drafting Volke, Stefan or Ena becasue maybe if I lack any P3 unit, I at least have her, and not incur in unnecessary penalties.

[quote name='PKL' date='16 March 2012 - 05:33 PM' timestamp='1331937203' post='1894805']
Sixth, sanaki is not better than lucia OR tauros. Tauros can take the boots in 3-12 and 2 turn it and wtfpwn ike. He can also help in hawk army. Lucia being drafted makes the 4 turn harder but still possible in 2-2. Then she can take your BEXP and help a whole lot with a tempest blade/sword forge and be an epic endgame unit with parity awesomeness and VK. Sure, sanaki helps in silver but she comes late and needs a wing/resolve and daunt/miracle to even work. She also cant really rush the desert as much as other mages.
[/quote]
Well, Lucia is out of debate, but I think she's more draftable than Tauros. He's just in one chapter in P1, he's not doing much in 3-12, maybe going below the gaps and killing units, ok. 3-13, any DBer can 1-5 turn it. But what is he doing in 4-2? Battle reinforcements? Any unit can do that. What is he doing in 4-5? Shove/Smite and kill laguz/protect Reyson, while Sanaki has better uses in P4 than him, and he's not doing much in P1 or P3. She has Rexflame for Endgame, and can double cover Auras with Nasir's Pool. Edited by Quintessence

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Actually, thinking on a plane for 3 hours or so, I'd say that Elincia saves more turns than Tanith. Both shave like 1 turn in their first part 4 chapter, but Elincia allows a 1 turn for 4-5 but Tanith doesn't necessarily save any turns in the desert. There are plenty of characters I can use in 4-3 for a 5/6 turn, but Elincia is the only one who can 1 turn 4-5.

3-11 ferrying saves just as much turns as Elincia 1 turning 2-E, like 3-4 turns to a 4 turn penalty. Edited by CR-S01

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Yeah, not to mention she has 9 move rescue in endgame and amiti for auras. Shes definetely > tanith.

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[quote name='Quintessence' date='16 March 2012 - 07:30 PM' timestamp='1331940605' post='1894884']
Well, Lucia is out of debate, but I think she's more draftable than Tauros. He's just in one chapter in P1, he's not doing much in 3-12, maybe going below the gaps and killing units, ok. 3-13, any DBer can 1-5 turn it. But what is he doing in 4-2? Battle reinforcements? Any unit can do that. What is he doing in 4-5? Shove/Smite and kill laguz/protect Reyson, while Sanaki has better uses in P4 than him, and he's not doing much in P1 or P3. She has Rexflame for Endgame, and can double cover Auras with Nasir's Pool.
[/quote]

Tauros is quite useful, he makes 1-6-1 relatively easier. Specially since now we have a free unit that is able to kill those middle generals in case sothe fails to do so.

3-12 he is helping us 3 turn it if we have scrubs like Meg/Aran. He may make a 2 turn possible with Nolan/Eddy/zihark...

3-13 good performance, he can eat boots and take on Ike for a 2 turn.

4-2 he can stay behind for reinforcement... Sure any unit can do this, but we have 3 units now, so tauro can stay while 2 other units move on and do a pincer attack on Valtome.

4-5 he can shove, which is very useful because sometimes Reyson can't get there by himself. Situational maybe.

While sanaki has the potential to do better, she requires quite a few things, for example a few speed wings would be good (whch may have some competition, miccy comes to mind, as her 4-e-2 is pretty cool while doubling). A strength drop which may have already been used, a seraph robe, possibly 2 (not much of a problem honeslty, unless we have a bunch of mages or scrubs...). All Tauro needs is some bexp, and a master crown


Are we doing transfers?

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I have issues with Zihark being below Nephenee, they are very close together, but in my opinion, they should be switched round. Zihark is a great unit for part one, being fantastic with the bravesword against enemies like the 1-8 bandits etc. Nephenee is free for her first chapter, and she will most likely be picked as the free unit in 2-2 right? I don' remember if she has 7 move. She cant do much against ludveck, but can be third tier by part 3. The same goes for Zihark, he can be tier 3 at 3-6, Zihark can also be transfered to the gm gang if nescesary, he is the first unit you face in 3-7. Neph has a free (b)exp dump called part two, and great p3 performance, but zihark has part one and three to help out in, and he can be put in either db or gm, depending on here you need him most.

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Neph can be rescue dropped by Marcia and double wrath crtkill Ludveck for a 1 turn clear. That would need 8dmgX2 = 24 + 24 =48 :awesome: , but for Neph doing so, she must have, at least, 21 str and a stl Greatlance :P. If not a 2 turn is better but there's the risk of enemies killing her.

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[quote name='Quintessence' date='17 March 2012 - 10:57 PM' timestamp='[url="tel:1332021451"]1332021451[/url]' post='[url="tel:1896329"]1896329[/url]']
Neph can be rescue dropped by Marcia and double wrath crtkill Ludveck for a 1 turn clear. That would need 8dmgX2 = 24 + 24 =48 :awesome: , but for Neph doing so, she must have, at least, 21 str and a stl Greatlance :P. If not a 2 turn is better but there's the risk of enemies killing her.
[/quote]

But doesnt marcia have to be drafted for that as well? It's not a neph + marcia > zihark.

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[quote name='Vicious Sal' date='17 March 2012 - 06:20 PM' timestamp='1332022838' post='1896347']
But doesnt marcia have to be drafted for that as well? It's not a neph + marcia > zihark.
[/quote]

Its not that he's doing that, he's talking about what Neph can do in a possible team.

However, i find neph + marcia too situational for a draft team (how likely is it that you can draft both?)... I'd find something like Brom + marcia more likely...

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