Golden Sun Mafia

[eclipse]

I had to yell at you to modkill BBM, remember? Also, did you miss a post in the mafia thread by me sometime late in the game where I threated to modkill myself?

[Percivalé]

guys let's stop fighting it's just a game ;-;

[Kriemhild]

I had to yell at you to modkill BBM, remember? Also, did you miss a post in the mafia thread by me sometime late in the game where I threated to modkill myself?

That was more about whether keeping him alive will break the game or not. I was gonna act right then, but Kaoz told me to give him some time. My original intention was to post his message in public, when Kaoz told me to wait. There was no way I would have just gone on without doing anything.

guys let's stop fighting it's just a game ;-;

Also, this

[eclipse]

My problem is that there's something seriously wrong, and one of the hosts is insisting that it's not there. If that is the stance you will take, then don't expect to see me in any more of your games.

And take your own advice, Bizz.

[Percivalé]

I'm not even really that upset though

I'm just not sleeping enough ;~;

[Kaoz]

I don't recall any player ever saying they felt they didn't stand a chance. Also, if you're claiming the game is unbalanced, are you implying that it was Town-sided? Because that wasn't obvious to me at all, when the Mafia had a Djinnblocker to put Djinn on Standby, a Mayor to use those Djinn and others on Standby, and a Softener to further amplify all those votes. And someone who could save their allies from lynches and gets to act as a Ninja, Hitman, or Janitor. At the start of the game, I certainly did not think it was Town-sided. If it turned out Town-sided afterwards, it's a result of player decisions, not from game design.

The softener is useless. For it to matter as more than a tiebreaker you'd need your vote to count as 10 or more, something which is completly unrealistic. The Mayor was too unpredictable to actually be reliable, it's a mircale we got to two votes and tied the C4 lynch. Honestly, a standard Mayor (i.e. double voter) would have been stronger. Djinnstorm was a good ability I'll give you that, and the JoAT was also pretty decent.

However what you completly fail to take into account here are the Djinn abilities, which are a part of game balance. The town ended up getting two docs, a redirector who you claim could redirect kills, a roleblocker, a watcher, a tracker, a silencer and kidnapper for more vote control than we had and two revives on top of that. Yeah you assigned them randomly, so what? They are still a part of the balance.

EDIT: I wrote this two days ago or so, might as well add it in...

First of all, just from a numerical standpoint, the game is something like 12-4 (I'm writing this at the beginning of C6 [i realize it's 11-4-1, but with the vote control the town had, it came down to the same thing more or less]), which gives the town 3 mislynches. That's already rather generous.

But hey, numbers aren't everything and depending on the roles, tilting the numbers into either direction may very well be justified... sadly this was not the case here. The town had a Roleblocker, a self Doctor and two normal Doctors for protection, a Tracker, a Watcher and an Alliance Checker for inspection, as well as two Revives, and a Motivator on top of that. What did we have? Djinn Storm was kinda nice, and the JoAT role was decent, the other two were pretty bad. For once, the Softener is almost completly useless, essentially being a tiebreaker. The only way it would ever do more is if someone had a way to make their vote count for 10 or more which is just unrealistic. Then, while the Mayor was potentially nice, it is way too unpredictable to actually be used properly and I honestly would have prefered a simple double voter instead. As for the Djinns, the post restrictions are almost completly useless, the other two were decent. Heck, the town had a Silencer and a Kidnapper which would have done a much better job in this area, as well as their own vote manipulation. Effectively all of that combined brings gets them up to like 6 or 7 mislynches or something silly. Then we have the issue of one of the townies (incidentally maybe the most powerful one) being hidden and us having pretty much no indication of that besides hidden players being not explicitely excluded. Adding to that, we had no way to determine the hidden player either, even if we did think of it earlier, and shooting randomly is absolutely not an option with those numbers. So now I'm really curious to hear from you how that was even remotely mafia sided or even balanced.

I'll be blunt here, the majority of the town didn't play well after Prims died or didn't play at all, on the other hand, the mafia wasn't exactly composed of low level players, there were two modkills and it's this close... that should tell you something about the balance of this thing.

"Once in every cycle, you may choose to send any Guardian to kill another player. This will be treated as an addition to the killer's current action, and is not involved with the actions/Djinn restrictions."

It mentions that they're not involved with the actions/Djinn restrictions. As in, you can kill and use a Djinn at the same time, or that Blues could use Guard/Refresh Ball and kill at the same time, etc. Never did I see a game where kills aren't treated as actions and don't get redirected (unless the redirection specifically doesn't apply to kills).

I might have something more to say to this, but you didn't answer my question. Did Imp actually input the redirecting action?

Edited April 27, 2012 by Kaoz

[eclipse]

And now. . .for the rest of you. . .(since it's about damn time I start saying something):

JB - School, etc. You did what you needed to, which was not get lynched.

Kay - Remember what I told you about voting. Getting hit with Vine would've made it better - "I have a post restriction, so I couldn't do this earlier, but here's my vote." I would've had a hell of a time getting Shinori to vote you off otherwise.

BBM - Modkill aside, you did okay for your first game. Don't pry deeply into flavor; in this case, we had a laundry list of fakes.

Prims - I think you can judge yourself just fine.

Rapier - I hope you used that ability of yours. Networker is damn powerful. It might help to write down why you feel the way you do about various people, preferably a paragraph. Look for logical inconsistencies there.

Shinori - You've improved at keeping yourself out of the crosshairs. Now keep going, and pay attention to the small details. I'll leave it to someone else to explain what was wrong with your logic (since I won't do justice to the explanation).

Strawman - Busy as always. You too did a pretty good job.

Impy/Iris - You two were busy, and I understand that. I kinda put you on the spot, so sorry!

Manix - I facepalmed when I saw the reviver claim. If the mafia had some form of redirection, you would've looked rather silly.

Excellen - You didn't have much time, and Spike didn't leave you in a good position.

Bizz - Like Prims, I think you can evaluate yourself just fine.

Blitz - I take your intentional modkill as your declaration of giving up against me. I'm quite surprised that you didn't win with that role.

Mafia guys, if you want an evaluation, PM. I'll go into much more detail there.

[riariadne]

this game

this game

[BBM]

I realized Kaoz was mafia as soon as I got modkilled. I PMed Shinori and Kaoz to confirm me as Watcher, since I'd seen them visiting someone, not knowing about NOC. Shinori told me the rules and said he wouldn't report me, but told me to post in the thread. When I still got killed, I knew it must've been Kaoz.

Also, I freaking knew Blitz was part of the game after C2. >_< I saw him visiting Manix C2, and asked Proto what he was doing there, as he wasn't in the list of players. Proto told me he was a hidden player, but the way he did it made it sound like he was joking, and he'd put the name in for kicks, so I didn't say anything about it, especially as that would have made me have to claim. I probably would have done it right after I claimed, had I not been modkilled.

Additionally, how did Blitz light two Lighthouses in the same cycle? I never used my Djinn and I don't see any other 2-move Djinn.

[Excellen Browning]

so the game is dead now rite?

at least I got my scumread on snike correctly(though I didn't speak of this in-thread)

All in all not happy with BBM basically sheeping the entire game(as far as I remember it, and its why I suspected him amongst other reasons) and me ending up dead because of it.

Overall annoyed by this game and how it was played.

[Kaoz]

I realized Kaoz was mafia as soon as I got modkilled. I PMed Shinori and Kaoz to confirm me as Watcher, since I'd seen them visiting someone, not knowing about NOC. Shinori told me the rules and said he wouldn't report me, but told me to post in the thread. When I still got killed, I knew it must've been Kaoz.

Uh I would have reported you as town too, just so you know.

[Shinori]

He didn't state anything to me that wasn't already known or anything that would ruin the game. So i simply said he would need to state what he said in the thread.

His post was him telling me that i visited bizz on that one cycle when i used my djinn on her.

[Snike]

so the game is dead now rite?

at least I got my scumread on snike correctly(though I didn't speak of this in-thread)

All in all not happy with BBM basically sheeping the entire game(as far as I remember it, and its why I suspected him amongst other reasons) and me ending up dead because of it.

Overall annoyed by this game and how it was played.

Thanks for acting as my scapegoat, mate. Sorry 'bout the lynch, but I did what I had to do.

[Excellen Browning]

Thanks for acting as my scapegoat, mate. Sorry 'bout the lynch, but I did what I had to do.

I would have done the same thing and I'm not being mad with you about it or anything. No need to apologize or something. What I'm pissed about is how BBM's stupid sheeping is what got me lynched.

[Snike]

I would have done the same thing and I'm not being mad with you about it or anything. No need to apologize or something. What I'm pissed about is how BBM's stupid sheeping is what got me lynched.

He also disregarded results and treated them as jokes, apparently.

Could we get a postgame?

[Excellen Browning]

yea I know but I thought well meh that's what a first timer who cant talk to anyone about this because lolNOC townie would reasonably do. It's stupid but I'm not holding it against him.

[Jotaro Kujo]

I might have something more to say to this, but you didn't answer my question. Did Imp actually input the redirecting action?

If you mean for the final cycle when I used my Djinn to get Eclipse lynched, no I did not. I didn't feel it necessary because I already knew that using my Djinn would have won me the game. There was a reason why I said that I had the power to end the game right then, however I wasn't really clear on the modkill/no lynch thing because I was distracted by everything.

[Prims]

somebody post the action spreadsheet for the sake of my awesome n0 play 8)

Edited April 27, 2012 by Prims

[riariadne]

relevant screenshot

the spreadsheet is private and I don't have permission to edit who can see it so this is the best i can do

EDIT: while I'm at it the rest of the actions and other shit

cycle 5 only has blitz using lull to end the cycle early and there's nothing on the spreadsheet for c6

Edited April 28, 2012 by ♈Aradia Megido

[Percivalé]

seven people targeted me c1

... okay

[riariadne]

yeah I know that was kind of hilarious

also added the c3 and 4 shit, as well as details on the roles (mostly blitz's)

i can spell i promise

Edited April 28, 2012 by ♈Aradia Megido

[Excellen Browning]

that's just sad.

[Kriemhild]

Oh, right, the spreadsheet

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aio24jefkQdqdG5adDkwMXpnalRERkZRQU1EZ2txdnc

First sheet (Actions) is the only one that was active during the game. The others are all outdated.

[Blitz]

lol

should have read the rules properly (which I never did)

well played Impy

@Manix

I don't know if my thought counts, but you outing your self wasn't all that bad because both role blockers were dead and the watcher should have been on you that phase even if the doc wasn't, so you could have gotten a mafia lynched either way

@BBM

I thanked the Almighty after you died cause I knew you had seen me

@Proto

remind me to read the rules

@13th

where the hell were you the entire game

@Straw

sorry for killing you

@Helios

thanks for supporting me

@Kay

you are better with better activity

@Shinori, BBM and Manix

thanks for keeping me a secret

and I loved screwing everything over

[Blitz]

btw,

I thought the game was plenty balanced because you guys had SM

he alone could screw the town over