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PKL

Rate the Unit, Day 10: Ilyana

76 posts in this topic

[quote name='Gone2Ground' date='05 April 2012 - 02:10 PM' timestamp='1333660231' post='1926056']
(Soren: Pretty Emotionless Kid With Hidden Depths).
[/quote]

Soren is definitely a timid person. That's what makes him sooooo cute. <3

[quote name='Mercenary Raven' date='05 April 2012 - 04:48 PM' timestamp='1333669735' post='1926272']
3.5/10

Ilyana dies a lot, is frail, has bad spd, and in general is very outclassed, has poor move and is generally redundant. There's not much reason to really use her.
[/quote]

She has Shade for a reason.

[quote name='Jihyun' date='05 April 2012 - 05:03 PM' timestamp='1333670611' post='1926294']
Honestly, you're better off dumping them both for Tormod once you get him.
[/quote]

Callil is better statwise. She doesn't get weighed down by those heavier tomes later like Toromod does. Since Ilyana and Callil have the best Str growths in the game.

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[quote name='リンダ' date='06 April 2012 - 09:13 AM' timestamp='1333700033' post='1926850']
Soren is definitely a timid person. That's what makes him sooooo cute. <3



She has Shade for a reason.



Callil is better statwise. She doesn't get weighed down by those heavier tomes later like Toromod does. Since Ilyana and Callil have the best Str growths in the game.
[/quote]
Actually, Tormod is only a point of strength behind Ilyana and Calill, and that's only at level 20/20, and Tormod has more speed anyway so he's still faster with every tome in the game, and even if he wasn't, he has a support list full of +attack supports so he can get away with using lighter and weaker tomes.

And meanwhile Tormod also wins HP and DEF so he's more durable and has 2 more movement. AKA, Tormod is statistically better than Ilyana and Calill. And even in comparison to Soren, he's better, since his supports close the gap in magic and he can use the mage band (whereas Soren will ram his magic cap if he tries), and he again has more DEF and move. So statistically, Tormod is the best Sage in the game, it's just that he joins late and underlevelled. Take notes Nino, Pelleas, this is how Ests should work.

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[quote name='Jihyun' date='06 April 2012 - 12:57 AM' timestamp='1333688253' post='1926701']
If we give Ilyana a 1 weight thunder tome with whatever strength we want to attach to it, then what's to stop Soren from getting a max-strength wind tome as well?[/quote]
A max-Mt Wind Tome forge is economic suicide (>15,000G). Soren prefers the Thunder Tome forge anyway. I don't know why there's any debate over whether Soren will be stronger or faster than Ilyana. He will.

Level 6 Soren: 9 Mag, 10 Spd, 0 Str
Level 6 Ilyana: 8 Mag, 9 Spd, 1 Str

Soren and Ilyana will be equally fast to start. Soren will be a little more powerful. Soren has a higher Mag and Spd growth (by 0.1 a piece). Clearly, if we forge our Mage a 1 Wt Tome, Soren will be leading Ilyana in Atk and Spd forever. But Ilyana does have a higher Str growth, so lets see what happens if our Mages have to make due with generic Tomes and Ilyana has some time to develop Str. (In the relevant stats (Str, Mag, and Spd) Soren starts with 99 Mag growth points and Ilyana starts with 50 Mag growth points.)

Level 14 Soren: 14 Mag, 13 Spd, 0 Str
Level 14 Ilyana: 12 Mag, 11 Spd, 3 Str

Behold! Ilyana has a potential 1 AS lead over Soren with heavier Tomes. So Ilyana can have 16 Atk and 11 AS with a Thunder Tome. But Soren can get 18 Atk and 11 AS with an Elwind. Or, if Soren needs the AS, he can use a Wind Tome for 16 Atk and 12 AS. And if Ilyana upgrades to Elthunder for 19 Atk and 8 AS, Soren can match that with Elfire (if he can wield it), or settle for Elwind's 18 Atk. And this is about as good as it gets for Ilyana. Soren is strictly better on offense (before even considering innate Adept). Ilyana's superior Str could theoretically be helpful when wielding siege tomes, but neither Ilyana nor Soren is going to be doubling with siege tomes anyway.

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@ Narga- Sorry about that. Had to count the votes because of the rule that states that I wont throw out votes anonymously. I didnt notice those votes until I was tallying. I didnt count paperblade's though, since it seemed like a joke vote.

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[quote name='Dark Sage' date='05 April 2012 - 10:16 PM' timestamp='1333678577' post='1926498']
Who cares if it's below the average? It's my opinion and the point of this thread is to post our ratings of characters based on our opinions.

I wish you'd just say you're mad because I'm rating one of your favorite characters low. It'd be a lot more honest of you.
[/quote]
No, I'm mad because your reasoning stinks. Haven't you noticed I normally point out when people do that in these threads? Give more reasoning and I wouldn't complain about your rating number. How was that not clear?

your reasoning amounts to "bad speed = 2/10", since you didn't provide anything else that was concrete. And it seems to me (and apparently PKL) that this is not enough justification to pass the rule "Votes need some explanation regarding their gameplay performance to be counted." If he'd seen it earlier, it seems he would have said something. Edited by Narga_Rocks

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[quote name='Narga_Rocks' date='06 April 2012 - 11:20 AM' timestamp='1333729206' post='1927117']
No, I'm mad because your reasoning stinks. Haven't you noticed I normally point out when people do that in these threads? Give more reasoning and I wouldn't complain about your rating number. How was that not clear?

your reasoning amounts to "bad speed = 2/10", since you didn't provide anything else that was concrete. And it seems to me (and apparently PKL) that this is not enough justification to pass the rule "Votes need some explanation regarding their gameplay performance to be counted." If he'd seen it earlier, it seems he would have said something.
[/quote]

You must be clinically retarded because I did provide acceptable reasoning. Here:

Soren is bad
Ilyana is worse than him because of bad speed
Therefore since Soren is bad and I think I gave him a rating in the 3/10 ballpark before, Ilyana gets a 2/10.

And even if i did just type bad speed = 2/10, who cares? Bad speed really is a critical flaw and is perfectly valid reasoning for a 2/10. It is related to her [b]gameplay[/b] performance because bad speed hinders that peformance. People have shown in this topic her speed is not good, so why just parrot it?

Probably the only reason why PKL is even refusing to count the vote is mainly because you're telling him to and you're a mod. And I bet you wouldn't care if I wrote "Ilyana is awesome 10/10." Edited by Dark Sage

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[quote name='Dark Sage' date='06 April 2012 - 12:35 PM' timestamp='1333730112' post='1927130']
You must be clinically retarded because I did provide reasoning. Here:

Soren is bad [color="#FF0000"](no explanation of how)[/color]
Ilyana is worse than him because of bad speed [color="#FF0000"](bad speed, as I pointed out you said)[/color]
Therefore since Soren is bad and I think I gave him a rating in the 3/10 ballpark before, Ilyana gets a 2/10.[/quote]

[quote]
And even if i did just type bad speed = 2/10, who cares? Bad speed really is a critical flaw and is perfectly valid reasoning.
[/quote]
Her speed isn't that bad, though. It's not like she never doubles anything. If you say "bad speed = 2/10" I can say "mediocre speed 5/10" or "hits hard with thunder 7/10" or anything of the sort. I wouldn't see what I just said there as a decent vote, either. At least your Geese rating pointed out bad bases and bad growth, which is a whole two things. I never use Geese and if I'd seen that post when the topic was still live I might've even objected to that.

Btw, mad isn't really the right word for it. At least, not before you accused me of biased reasons for complaining about your post. And now I'm pissed because you think I wouldn't object to the 10/10 for the same reason (sucky reasoning). Now, if you said "bad speed x/10" where x is reasonably close to other votes, or "Ilyana is awesome x/10" where again x is reasonably close, I wouldn't bother as a sucky vote wouldn't be doing much to the average.

And PKL IS counting your vote, did you not read his post? But if he'd seen it before tallying, he implied he wouldn't count it. Learn to read.

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I think rating Soren or Ilyana over a 3 or 4 is fucking ridiculous. But that's just me.

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[quote name='Narga_Rocks' date='06 April 2012 - 11:45 AM' timestamp='1333730701' post='1927151']
Her speed isn't that bad, though. It's not like she never doubles anything. If you say "bad speed = 2/10" I can say "mediocre speed 5/10" or "hits hard with thunder 7/10" or anything of the sort. I wouldn't see what I just said there as a decent vote, either. At least your Geese rating pointed out bad bases and bad growth, which is a whole two things. I never use Geese and if I'd seen that post when the topic was still live I might've even objected to that.
[/quote]

I didn't see you bitch at dondon for giving Lugh a 4/10 for "hitting enemies for 9 HP damage."

[quote]
Btw, mad isn't really the right word for it. At least, not before you accused me of biased reasons for complaining about your post. And now I'm pissed because you think I wouldn't object to the 10/10 for the same reason (sucky reasoning). Now, if you said "bad speed x/10" where x is reasonably close to other votes, or "Ilyana is awesome x/10" where again x is reasonably close, I wouldn't bother as a sucky vote wouldn't be doing much to the average.
[/quote]

Or even better, you can choose not to take these rating topics seriously in the first place. Seriously, some of you people take this too seriously and are just tools about the whole thig. "Oh he doesn't agree with me, THROWING HIS VOTE OUT!", "Not enough "reasoning" which I can use as an excuse to throw out votes I don't like", "Imma gonna scream at people who give Nino slightly less shitty rating than I give" etc.

[quote]
And PKL IS counting your vote, did you not read his post? But if he'd seen it before tallying, he implied he wouldn't count it. Learn to read.
[/quote]

misread something =/= illiteracy. Edited by Dark Sage

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[quote name='Colonel M' date='06 April 2012 - 12:47 PM' timestamp='1333730851' post='1927154']
I think rating Soren or Ilyana over a 3 or 4 is fucking ridiculous. But that's just me.
[/quote]
Siege tomes. They're kind of a big deal.

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[quote name='aku chi' date='06 April 2012 - 12:58 PM' timestamp='1333731487' post='1927174']
Siege tomes. They're kind of a big deal.
[/quote]
Training them. It's also kind of a big deal.

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@Dark Sage-

The reason people have a problem with your vote is because it was FAR BELOW the average of the other votes and you didnt SPECIFY why you voted that way.

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who cares if its below the average? why does it even matter?

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I would like to use this thread as an opportunity to ask if anybody knows how likely Ilyana's skill (hell, and Shinon's opposite) is to activate. It's saved her a couple times on my runs, but so did Miracle for Mist, and if it's anywhere as likely as that, then it's not something you'd rely on.

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No one would care if you given her a 0 as long as you explained why!

And if dont care about RTU topics dont effin vote.

Quit acting like a child. If you dont want to follow the rules that are stated at the begining of the thread dont vote in said thread. Youre like that one kid in gym class who decides he is gonna run the bases backwords just cause he doesnt want to play.

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[quote name='Hawk King' date='06 April 2012 - 12:35 PM' timestamp='1333733702' post='1927242']
No one would care if you given her a 0 as long as you explained why!
[/quote]

I did explain why. why is this so hard for people to understand.

And you still haven't answered my question. Edited by Dark Sage

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@Espinosa-

Shade IS unreliable. To this day, no one knows EXACTLY how it works


@Dark Sage-

The point is, because people DO care about this. PKL wouldnt have started this is he didnt care about it, no one would vote if they didnt care.

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[quote name='Dark Sage' date='05 April 2012 - 11:49 PM' timestamp='1333669758' post='1926273']
Ilyana is like Soren but not content to simply be the same as him for a title of "really shitty unit", Ilyana outdoes him in that regard and manages to be even worse with terribad speed.

2/10
[/quote]

To be honest, I rather think think that that is a fair explanation for the rating. It implies she has much of the same problems as him but with even worse speed. If he did vote something like 3 on Soren and it was counted, there isn't any inconsistency, really, in Ilyana being given a two. Edited by Snapdragon

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Really?! Youre acting like a 10 year old.
Personally I care because im curious to see how the other SF members feel about the usefulness of the characters in this game.

Clearly, you must care an aweful lot about this so let me ask you a question, "Why do you care about the reasons for why people care about this?

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[quote name='Dark Sage' date='06 April 2012 - 12:51 PM' timestamp='1333731072' post='1927159']
I didn't see you bitch at dondon for giving Lugh a 4/10 for "hitting enemies for 9 HP damage."
[/quote]
Did you miss the part where I don't care if sucky votes are close to the average? His 4 was within 1 of multiple recent votes but more to the point was within 2 of the ending mean.

[quote]
Or even better, you can choose not to take these rating topics seriously in the first place. Seriously, some of you people take this too seriously and are just tools about the whole thig. "Oh he doesn't agree with me, THROWING HIS VOTE OUT!", "Not enough "reasoning" which I can use as an excuse to throw out votes I don't like", "Imma gonna scream at people who give Nino slightly less shitty rating than I give" etc.[/quote]
Okay, that power that the first poster has could be misused, but it can [i]also[/i] be used how integrity generally wields the power, with, well, integrity.


[quote]
misread something =/= illiteracy.
[/quote]
Learn to read is a common phrase that doesn't really mean the person can't read, as if that was the case typing any words would be pointless. It's hyperbole, or something similar. It might be something close to flaming but I don't think it is considered that, yet, so it's still cool.

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Look at Narga, telling people not to take things literally. Because he's never [i]ever[/i] taken a post literally before.

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[quote name='Mercenary Raven' date='06 April 2012 - 05:10 PM' timestamp='1333746603' post='1927584']
Look at Narga, telling people not to take things literally. Because he's never [i]ever[/i] taken a post literally before.
[/quote]
Don't read into things that aren't there. I wasn't telling him not to take things literally. I notice you didn't quote me, so it must be because you knew this was true and didn't want to make your post as obviously false. I was explaining what I meant to him, since he apparently didn't realize it.

Also, off-topic stuff needs to stop. Edited by Narga_Rocks

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[quote name='Espinosa' date='06 April 2012 - 06:27 PM' timestamp='1333733247' post='1927229']
I would like to use this thread as an opportunity to ask if anybody knows how likely Ilyana's skill (hell, and Shinon's opposite) is to activate. It's saved her a couple times on my runs, but so did Miracle for Mist, and if it's anywhere as likely as that, then it's not something you'd rely on.
[/quote]
Shade is not a skill that activates, it's a passive skill that always works... we just don't know what it does.

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Isnt it suppose to make enemy units attack other units first? I think it does work because if another unit is in attack range, the enemy will go for them first. Only if Ilyana is the only one in attack range do enemies attack her. But i think in RD, it doesnt kick in all the time. (why Stillness exists. Its like the same thing only its supposed to be constant.) Kinda like how Vantage always works in PoR but is based on Skill or Speed (cant remember which) in RD. *shrug* i could be wrong.

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