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PKL

Rate the Unit, Day 13: Marcia

38 posts in this topic

[b]Dat Rules[/b] (borrowed/stolen from Integrity)
- Ratings are assumed to be on Hard Mode+Fixed Mode.
- [b]Votes need some explanation regarding their gameplay performance to be counted[/b]. If somebody else said what you want to already, quote them [b]explicitly[/b].
+/- ≤1 point extra regarding personality/appearance is encouraged, but no more. If you exercise your bias privileges, please do so explicitly.
- Numerical votes out of 10, or something proportional to it. Make it easy to calculate for my sake.
- Every ranking phase ends whenever I get out of bed, between 0700 and 0800 EST. Do the math for your timezone, Brits.
- I will insist you do not use the "Not X" reason on any character, where X is another unit. If you do, your vote will be thrown out.
- "Recruits X" or "takes you to X chapter" arguments are explicitly banned. C'mon, people, this shouldn't need to be a rule. That's not gameplay performance.
- Assume that the character in question is being recruited.
- Similar to the "Recruits X" rule, do not use "she brings a Knight Ward to the team" as an argument.
- BEXP is free to be used in any quantity on any character.
- Rating a unit too low because you think its overrated will make me throw away your vote without mercy [img]public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif[/img].
- I withhold the privilege to tell you your rating is bogus and demand you revise it if it breaks any of the above. I will not throw out votes anonymously, you [b]will[/b] be informed and given a chance to revise.

[b]Averages:
[/b][url="http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=31706&st=0"]Rolf[/url]: 1.154
[url="http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=31532&st=0"]Shinon[/url]: 3
[url="http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=31662&st=0"]Ilyana[/url]: 4.98
[url="http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=31596&st=0"]Soren[/url]: 5.152
[url="http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=31501&st=0"]Rhys[/url]: 5.315
[url="http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=31562&st=0"]Gatrie[/url]: 5.463
[url="http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=31637&st=0"]Mia[/url]: 5.708
[url="http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=31688&st=0"]Mist[/url]: 6.413
[url="http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=31463&st=0"]Boyd[/url]: 8.293
[url="http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=31405&st=0"]Ike[/url]: 8.567
[url="http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=31443&st=0"]Oscar[/url]: 9.075
[url="http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=31422&st=0"]Titania: [/url]9.91

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10/10

Only problem is that she's tier 1, unlike Titania.

But hell, she's mounted and comes early.

+1 bias to get her to 10/10 for PKL. Edited by Folgore Green

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A Peg is always good to debate for their ferrying and having no terrain penalities. Always giving us a good laugh with her berating her brother. Can 5% support bonus with the [s]douche[/s] Makalov. Best to support her with Tanith(who is actually better in this game) than anyone else. Having no terrain penalities throughout this support. Gives Marcia godly avoid and Tanith can always use the extra durability boost. =) Great growths, etc.

And now....

NM
9/10 bias 9.5/10 to make me laugh for the love of her brother.

HM
8.5/10 bias 9/10 Comical, will do anything for lady Elincia. Edited by リンダ

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9.5/10

I love pegasus knights almost as much as I love my paladins. Marcia comes in early and is mounted. Her only problem is that unlike Titania, she needs some training to be perfect.

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Marcia...[img]http://serenesforest.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/wub.gif[/img]

First flier, and an awesome one at that. Her joining level may be low, but her growths are awesome. Her bases aren't too bad, either. She gains EXP fast, and her combat is great.

9/10, +1 bias for various reasons. 10/10. [img]http://serenesforest.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif[/img]

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9/10. THough she comes in underleveled and in neeed of raising, she's still :awesome: . Add a point of bias, and you get... [b]10/10[/b].

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A pegasus knight with good offensive parameters that joins early. Hold me.

Downsides are she wants a BEXP injection to get going and I guess her Defense isn't great. Nothing major.

9/10 Edited by tiff

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Well, she's a flyer all right, but Jill tends to turn out better. However, she's a good unit on her own right, so I guess that works out.

8/10 (Was originally 9/10, but I hate the way she cusses. Also - Pink Hair. I can almost get Green or blue but...but...IT'S PINK!)

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A cute flyer with average stats and growths. Flying is kind of always worth 3 points in my book though. BExp catches her up fast.

I give her a 9.25.

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Good flyer overall... Not to mention she supports some units that matches her MOV; and she'd appreciate that extra AVO anyways.

8.5

Kicking it up; cause her supports with Kieran and conversations in the game are freakin' hilarious!

[b][u]9.5[/u][/b]

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Underleveled to start, but otherwise quite clutch with flying and availability. A little BExp fixes up her start, and unlike other pegs in the series she's not bound to CON so she'll eventually have no particular difficulties with her lances. Worth slapping a STR-raising band on, for all the good it'll do on Fixed. I like Jill better too, but you know what I like better than Jill? Marcia [b]and[/b] Jill.

[b]9/10[/b]

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8/10

Comes underleveled and always seems to be a bit rocky on the damage for me. I don't usually care too much about her though in my playthroughs, but she's pretty good on the whole. I just don't have a lot to say about her.

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Marcia is awesome. She flies, comes in early, and dodgetanks the shit out of everything. Besides Mist she's the other candidate for BEXP.

Once she promotes she's immortal. She'll fly everywhere and kill everything.

Problem is? She's not Jill, who comes three chapters later.

But hey. Titania, Flying Titania, and Flying Titania Lite in the same party? That's enough for me.

9.25/10

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9.5/10 becomes tits on a pegasus

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Second best flyer in the game, comes at a reasonable time for her level although it's a tad low. Likely going to have Durability problems with anything not a mage, great to take out Sword users though.

[b]8.5/10[/b]

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9.5/10, because you have more than enough BEXP to give her the 16 levels she needs to maul the next couple chapters. Doesn't even need 16 levels, you just need to give her like 10-13 and she can hold her own for the next couple chapters. Best unit in the game bar Titania.

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[quote name='Mercenary Raven' date='08 April 2012 - 12:29 PM' timestamp='1333902561' post='1929962']
Best unit in the game bar Titania.
[/quote]
That's debatable. Jill has the better weapons and the better stats, iirc.

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I'm not going through this argument again (well I might, depends on my mood), but if you go through the tier list thread you will see plenty of proof to the contrary. Better stats does not a better unit always make, especially because there are some chapters where Marcia's resistance is valued and there are, of course, chapters where Marcia is generally an equal or better pick to Jill.

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[quote name='Laurence Olivier' date='08 April 2012 - 02:12 PM' timestamp='1333912376' post='1930117']
That's debatable. Jill has the better weapons and the better stats, iirc.
[/quote]

Jill can have speed issues because of her meh base and decent growth. Marcia never has that problem. So that plus her good strength, gives her better overall offense early on. Later on Jill is fast enough to double reliably so she wins slightly, but at that point both are annihilating the game so it doesn't really matter. She isn't as durable as Jill, but she's durable enough, has better res, as said, and has good enough avoid that it's never really a problem keeping her alive.

Anyway, the sole reason Mist shouldn't be getting all of your bexp for the next few chapters. Flight, great stats, comes early. She's a bit underleveled, but can be caught up easily enough. [b]9.75/10[/b] because she's not dominating from the get go.

Also, I can't believe Oscar only got a 9/10. Edited by bottlegnomes

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[quote name='bottlegnomes' date='08 April 2012 - 04:11 PM' timestamp='1333915881' post='1930152']
She isn't as durable as Jill, but she's durable enough, has better res, as said, and has good enough avoid that it's never really a problem keeping her alive.[/quote]
That obviously depends on what you do with Marcia. I assure you, it's easy to get even a 20/20 Marcia killed in the later chapters in PoR if you play aggressively. There are certain hot drops (notably in C25 and C28) that Jill (and Haar) can make safely that Marcia (and Tanith) cannot.

In a tiered efficiency context, Marcia may well be slightly more valuable than Jill. But this has more to do with Marcia's C12 than her comparison with Jill in C13 and beyond (where they each have their pros and cons). On the other hand, in all comparisons where Marcia and Jill get fewer than 1000 Bexp, Jill is the more valuable unit.

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Pros:
Availability
Good offense
Good supports (Earth w/ Tanith)
Flies

Cons:
Needs training/BEXP to fix her low starting level
Mediocre defense (I sometimes fix this with Vantage/Guard)

10/10 (Bias Factored in for her funny profanity substitutes)

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aku chi, Marcia's problems in 25 are actually very similar to Jill's problems in 25. Jill can survive a hit or two more, but the problem is that you only have one flying unit that is safe throughout the entire chapter (the rest are prey to random crap up north) and Jill's shortcomings (Purge Bishops, the boss) are counterbalanced by Marcia's shorcomings (too much physical assault). As for chapter 28, I still need to finish my runthrough, but Jill seems just about as screwed as Marcia if you go aggro there.

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9 Flying is wonderful, as is availability. She would be perfect if she didn't show up a bit underleveled. Also she tends to have meh defense for me.

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[quote name='aku chi' date='08 April 2012 - 03:30 PM' timestamp='1333917013' post='1930169']
That obviously depends on what you do with Marcia. I assure you, it's easy to get even a 20/20 Marcia killed in the later chapters in PoR if you play aggressively. There are certain hot drops (notably in C25 and C28) that Jill (and Haar) can make safely that Marcia (and Tanith) cannot.
[/quote]

Just looked again, and Jill's lead is bigger than I remembered.

[quote]
In a tiered efficiency context, Marcia may well be slightly more valuable than Jill. But this has more to do with Marcia's C12 than her comparison with Jill in C13 and beyond (where they each have their pros and cons). On the other hand, in all comparisons where Marcia and Jill get fewer than 1000 Bexp, Jill is the more valuable unit.
[/quote]

How do you figure that? I'm legitimately curious. From experience, Jill's speed issues are more noticeable than Marcia's lower strength and durability.

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Mercenary Raven, I'm really not interested in delving into Marcia vs. Jill minutia in this topic.

[quote name='bottlegnomes' date='08 April 2012 - 04:50 PM' timestamp='1333918249' post='1930177']
How do you figure that? I'm legitimately curious. From experience, Jill's speed issues are more noticeable than Marcia's lower strength and durability.
[/quote]
Here's how I see it:

Aside from the super-fast bosses Muarim, Homasa, and Petrine; and the occasional Swordmaster; Jill can double just about everything with a sizable Bexp dump. Jill is also a great candidate for the C13 Speedwings if you find her speed lacking. Marcia, meanwhile has a tough time 2HKOing many bosses, Generals, Wyvern Lords, and Tigers without the C13 Energy Drop. In addition to losing to Jill by 2-4 Atk with conventional weaponry, Marcia doesn't have the Hammer or Laguz Axe options that Jill does against Generals and Tigers. I'd say that Marcia's Spd and Jill's Str + Axes are advantages of similar magnitudes.

But Marcia's physical durability deficit is more troubling. Jill starts out more durable than Marcia and accelerates her advantage in late-game. Jill perform several ambitious clears with a higher reliability. Thankfully for Marcia, there are resources that can help her. A Dracoshield and Seraph Robe go a long way towards solving her mid-game durability short-comings, and a support with Tanith can really bolster her evasion in late-game clears where it's practical to keep them together. Jill does have to worry about magical damage and Sleep Bishops more than Marcia, though Pure Waters are a cheap solution. Marcia can also be shoved by more beast laguz, which opens the doors for some particularly ambitious LTC clears unavailable to Jill. Jill's physical durability advantage may be about as valuable as Marcia's higher Res and lower Wt.

Assuming that Marcia and Jill both get a ~1000 Bexp dump near their join time, I find their performance in C13 and beyond to be almost identically impressive. But when Marcia can (nearly) single-handedly 2-turn C12, that works as a tie-breaker and more.

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