Proposed Thracia Names Changes

[Biabarr]

Why not just fix the menus, typos, and presentation but keep the names the same as the FE4 already in use ones? Changing them now will be more annoying than NoA messing up the Arkanea names (since at least those are official and these aren't)

[General Banzai]

Why not just fix the menus, typos, and presentation but keep the names the same as the FE4 already in use ones? Changing them now will be more annoying than NoA messing up the Arkanea names (since at least those are official and these aren't)

NoA didn't mess up the Archanea names. You guys did.

[Quirino]

Why not just fix the menus, typos, and presentation but keep the names the same as the FE4 already in use ones? Changing them now will be more annoying than NoA messing up the Arkanea names (since at least those are official and these aren't)

Sounds like the best idea to me...

[VincentASM]

You have yet to have any credentials. You try to bite more than you can chew, and break your teeth in the process. You think you're prepared, but you aren't. There was a time when your passion alone, even if not backed by sufficient ability or knowledge, would have allowed you to contribute meaningfully to the then-fledging community. But that time is long gone.

Ah, the days when even I could translate FE3.

In all seriousness, I think it's kind of late to think about changing a whole bunch of names. Sure, you could go ahead with it and some people will accept the names, but mostly everyone else who cares has already moved on.

Boss names might be fair game, since nobody really cared about them in the first place to think of legitimate names and also won't be bothered if they've suddenly changed.

[Othin]

Trying hard to prove things that are self-evident in my eyes is against my religion.

It's a shame, then, that you're so crippled in your communication ability as to be useless here.

You're not demonstrating any value to your greater experience with these matters; all you're showing is that you lack the perspective to be anything more than an annoyance. Bye now.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Othin

[CT075]

I already have offers from Camtech, actually, who says he'll help me as long as I change Leaf's name to Vergil. :V

that is not what i offered and you already turned me down

[FabledTome]

If you ask me, this has been way overdue - as is, even if it is my favorite FE installment, Thracia has a terrible translation patch. I don't see how that can be argued. It's not even complete.

To all those who have yet to discover the game, especially, this is looking like a good, sensible idea. Hopefully it works out in practice. I don't see what the point is in getting so worked up over or being so close-minded/defensive about it, maybe some of you are just too anti-social and need more friends, lol.

Edited April 10, 2012 by FabledTome

[shadowofchaos]

I don't see what the point is in getting so worked up over or being so close-minded/defensive about it, maybe some of you are just too anti-social and need more friends, lol.

Banzai is free to do whatever he wishes.

And I know that last part was PROBABLY a joke... but if you're being serious, nice Ad Hominem there.

[TheEnd]

Well, I'm glad TheEnd was kind enough to sabotage his own argument, so I wouldn't have to spend a long time typing up a post explaining why my issues with the text were completely legitimate.

Legitimate issues exist. However, the issues you see and the issues whose existence you continually prove are not one and the same.

It's a shame, then, that you're so crippled in your communication ability as to be useless here.

You're not demonstrating any value to your greater experience with these matters; all you're showing is that you lack the perspective to be anything more than an annoyance. Bye now.

Oh no! Defeated by Banzai and his friends, I have no choice but to leave the thread in shame and rethink my pathetic friendless life...

Ah, the days when even I could translate FE3.

In all seriousness, I think it's kind of late to think about changing a whole bunch of names. Sure, you could go ahead with it and some people will accept the names, but mostly everyone else who cares has already moved on.

Boss names might be fair game, since nobody really cared about them in the first place to think of legitimate names and also won't be bothered if they've suddenly changed.

The days! You can still proofread though >:O

[Othin]

Oh no! Defeated by Banzai and his friends, I have no choice but to leave the thread in shame and rethink my pathetic friendless life...

Look, you clearly know a lot about the Japanese language. If you're willing to take the perspective that maybe for those of us who don't have as much experience with it as you do, we might have good reasons to not immediately pick up things that you think are obvious, and if you're willing to for that reason explain those things, then it could advance these translations.

But as long as you refuse to explain, there is nothing for us to learn, nothing to convince us that you know anything important here in the first place. You then become nothing more than another one of the millions of random, generic internet assholes whom no one has any reason to listen to.

I think you're capable of better than this. Am I wrong?

[Jediabiwan]

And ignore the wooden, often typo-ridden translation? Why do that when we're hacking the translation patch anyways and I've already gone through and edited the entire script (an edit I will be posted today, perhaps later tonight... and don't worry, I haven't changed ANYTHING other than aforementioned typos and some wooden sentence structures).

Then please for the love of God leave it that way. Fix the menus and improve the presentation. If you insist, make a few minor changes to the script. Just leave the names alone. Sure there might be a few changes I support, but nobody is going to be happy so just leave the names alone. Thankfully I'm no the only one with this view. There so many people in this thread saying exactly what I am thinking but I might as well add another post to help convince you.

If this was the first patch, than sure it would be fine. But I don't want to learn new names for half the characters. Like I said in the FE4 thread I actually prefer Serlis > Celice but I am 100% opposed to the change.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Jediabiwan

[Celice]

I'm surprised TheEnd actually posted enough as he did. He nailed most of the points I was going to say last night--until I realized this is Banzai and butt-buddy Othin, discussion isn't going anywhere in Banzai's mind. He's already displayed incongruity in regards to how one translates and localizes text (what he excuses in one situation he does not in another, all bat-shit to objectivity and professionalism), let alone the inability to do this satisfactory on his own dependable grounds (neither the familiarity nor the knowledge itself, thus, capability).

I think his argument for Odin's romanization is one of the pimple-experiences. It shows all that Banzai is lacking, namely, in that he doesn't address how Odin is actually pronounced--he just assumes his romanization--his perspective--was the valid one.

[irtikliwT]

It may make sense, but it is unfortunately wrong, because the English language is not known for making sense. When we use foreign accented words in English, like facade or cliche, we do not change the vowels to fit the pronunciation, but rather, as in the examples I just posted, remove the accents entirely and call it a day. This is well documented in nearly every (if not all) accented loan words, and is part of the reason why English vowels have so many different pronunciations. I use this same argument in the thread when I explain why the e in "Hezul" should actually be an o.

Fuenf and Zwoelf only make sense from a logical standpoint, not an English one. And since this is an English translation...

The part that you're missing is that Fünf and Zwölf aren't loanwords. They're names.

So you're saying that when you write a book about WW2 you're going to use Goring instead of Göring/Goering and so on?

[TheEnd]

Look, you clearly know a lot about the Japanese language. If you're willing to take the perspective that maybe for those of us who don't have as much experience with it as you do, we might have good reasons to not immediately pick up things that you think are obvious, and if you're willing to for that reason explain those things, then it could advance these translations.

I'm not even talking about Japanese. I'm baffled at his inability to understand plain English. It's kind of a dealbreaker, you know? Casting pearls before swine and all that jazz. "Even if I explain, either he'll likely misuse it, or I'll end up working too much on something I don't see as worthy being done. It's hopeless."

Does that sound arrogant? Hell yes, couldn't think of a softer way of putting it. Should you ignore it just because of that? Keep reading.

But as long as you refuse to explain, there is nothing for us to learn, nothing to convince us that you know anything important here in the first place. You then become nothing more than another one of the millions of random, generic internet assholes whom no one has any reason to listen to.

I have neither the skill nor the willingness to impress you; I'm perfectly fine with being a random asshole, as long as I can get shit done. But see Vincent? There's no reason you should ignore him. You'll be hard-pressed to find people that are more helpful, polite and reasonable than him in the internet. And yet, even he is opposed to this project. Give that a thought.

I think you're capable of better than this. Am I wrong?

You are. As Celice said, I've even done too much, this time.

Edited April 10, 2012 by TheEnd

[Arch]

The inevitable name change shitstorm hits Thracia. I feel your pain, Banzai.

Anyways, looking at some of the actual proposals (instead of this tired, pointless, and aggravating debate over the merit of localization, which has been staunchly debated and re-debated on his board to death), I actually like some of what you're doing. I'm definitely a supporter of Pan and Ilios. I'd personally prefer it if Delmud were kept intact, simply because I feel it's the lesser of two evils (both of the names are poor, in my opinion, so I'll just keep the poor name that I'm used to). The Sarah change is extremely minor, nothing really to debate there.

I gotta say, though, the trend of adding second n's, to "Ethlinn" and "Dainn," is pretty silly. Whenever I see an 'nn' ending, it just reeks of non-English. For someone who's "localizing," I'd say that those sorts of changes would be better off discarded. Speaking of the Crusaders in general, I liked that some of them were distortions of Nordic God names, rather than the same spelling (Baldo, Tordo). This also applies to some locations that you're trying to change, making them match the Irish provinces, rather than retain the distortions that have been accepted by two translation patches already. Also regarding the Crusaders; I'd say that keeping "Neir" would be no large issue, as it's much better than your proposed "Niur" (which sounds more awkward than the original). Localizations should generally be an improvement, in my honest opinion. Niur, and even Hothur, just seem like pointless retranslating. You've seen that people cause enough of a stink about this stuff. At least make the changes worth your while, instead of this unnecessary stuff .

[MacLovin]

hey at least change the menus.

those were garbage.

Normal players won't really care about random boss names, and stuff like that.

Just fix the damn menus, and battle screens.

[Othin]

I'm not even talking about Japanese. I'm baffled at his inability to understand plain English. It's kind of a dealbreaker, you know? Casting pearls before swine and all that jazz. "Even if I explain, either he'll likely misuse it, or I'll end up working too much on something I don't see as worthy being done. It's hopeless."

Does that sound arrogant? Hell yes, couldn't think of a softer way of putting it. Should you ignore it just because of that? Keep reading.

I have neither the skill nor the willingness to impress you; I'm perfectly fine with being a random asshole, as long as I can get shit done. But see Vincent? There's no reason you should ignore him. You'll be hard-pressed to find people that are more helpful, polite and reasonable than him in the internet. And yet, even he is opposed to this project. Give that a thought.

You are. As Celice said, I've even done too much, this time.

I care little about arrogance or politeness. What I care about is logic and reasoning. Offer good logic and reasoning and you'll impress me. You have done no such thing. You will not get any shit done while you give us no reasons to listen to you.

I respect Vincent, and he's offered some reasoning. But in this case, I can't agree with it. New players do get introduced to the older FE games, and others can be receptive and adapt to new names, especially names with a good, logical reason to be used, as applies to at least a few of Banzai's proposals.

With that in mind, I would be a fool to let myself be biased by my appreciation for him or for his politeness and to let that keep me from finding the truth. Great people can be wrong, and they can be wrong as politely as anyone could possibly be, but that does not make them any less wrong. Ultimately, all that matters is the logical truth and the reasoning that leads to it. This is what I seek, always.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Othin

[Mekkah]

I would like to join this anti Banzai bandwagon, is it too late?

anyway seeing units get Anim growth, looking at Seiz to buy some items and God knows what always kind of amuses me, but I've had my fun now and it'd be nice to legit know what option is what. Also localization is dumb and useless, stop dicking around with those names.

[Arch]

Normal players won't really care about random boss names, and stuff like that.

Just fix the damn menus, and battle screens.

Too bad Banzai doesn't know how to do that...

I find it generally amusing that everyone's worked up into such a fervor over the proposals of a person with no power to enact them. If you're gonna whip up a shitstorm, at least make it worthwhile by having the capacity to follow through. Has that even been thought of yet? Is there anyone of any hacking skill on board with this?

EDIT: Instead of just being a condescending prick, I'll try to offer some help to Banzai. There's a hacker, Pukachi, who already fixed the menus for his personal FE5 hack. He's been missing for a while, but trying to contact him might be a worthwhile endeavor. Even if he won't do it for you, if he shares the knowledge of how to fix the menu issues then you might be able to find another hacker who can implement the fixes for you. I'd figure it's easier to find someone willing to hack when they just hack to follow some instructions, rather than figure everything out.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Arch

[TheEnd]

I care little about arrogance or politeness. What I care about is logic and reasoning. Offer good logic and reasoning and you'll impress me. You have done no such thing. You will not get any shit done while you give us no reasons to listen to you.

I respect Vincent, and he's offered some reasoning. But in this case, I can't agree with it. New players do get introduced to the older FE games, and others can be receptive and adapt to new names, especially names with a good, logical reason to be used, as applies to at least a few of Banzai's proposals.

With that in mind, I would be a fool to let myself be biased by my appreciation for him or for his politeness and to let that keep me from finding the truth. Great people can be wrong, and they can be wrong as politely as anyone could possibly be, but that does not make them any less wrong. Ultimately, all that matters is the logical truth and the reasoning that leads to it. This is what I seek, always.

I'm wordless.

EDIT: Instead of just being a condescending prick, I'll try to offer some help to Banzai. There's a hacker, Pukachi, who already fixed the menus for her personal FE5 hack. She's been missing for a while, but trying to contact her might be a worthwhile endeavor. Even if she won't do it for you, if she shares the knowledge of how to fix the menu issues you might be able to find another hacker who can implement the fixes for you. I'd figure it's easier to find someone willing to hack when they just hack to follow some instructions, rather than figure everything out.

(Pukachi is a dude, actually.)

[Arch]

(Pukachi is a dude, actually.)

(Ooops. I've probably been told this before. The avatar just always threw me off for some reason...)

Fix'd mistakes.

[Othin]

I'm wordless.

Thanks for the info.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Othin

[Arch]

And Oisin comes back with a cocky response to TheEnd's shutdown move. Is this battle over, or just beginning? The fandom anxiously awaits the next phase of this localization deathmatch...

We should build an arena, make this battle into an official forum event. I'll do live play-by-play shouting. We'll sell tickets. It'll be awesome.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Arch

[dondon151]

I care little about arrogance or politeness. What I care about is logic and reasoning. Offer good logic and reasoning and you'll impress me. You have done no such thing. You will not get any shit done while you give us no reasons to listen to you.

dear orshin,

we already have

it's called clearly no one will be happy with names changes so just leave the damn things alone

[General Banzai]

Wait, when did we determine that Banzai is unable to understand plain English?

Was it because I had questions that

"If you were to die, what would I say to that person?"

was supposed to refer to Lachesis?

Was it because I had questions that

"Northern and Southern Thracia combined were still defeated at Fort Melgen, thanks to Leidrick's betrayal"

when both developer notes and ingame sources indicate that Leidrick betrayed North Thracia at the River Thracia instead of Melgen, and TO South Thracia, rather than a united Thracia front?

Was it because I had questions that

"Because I was the daughter of the bishop, I was not allowed to be the friend Linoan, the daughter of a duke"

when ingame sources indicate the role of bishop as a highly venerated role and thus it wouldn't make sense why there is such a class divide?

You know, TheEnd, I don't know Japanese. Why the fuck do you think I turned to you when I wanted someone to run those lines by the original Japanese? And what do I get in response? Smug assery, insults that I'm unfamiliar with the canon/the English language, and all sorts of other shit. I came to you for help in order to fill in the holes I saw in the script and you spurned me, and now you come in here claiming that I'm not qualified for this.

So fuck you You dastard!!!, I asked for your help early on and you didn't want to give it. So if you're dissatisfied with what you get, it's your own damn fault.

Edited April 11, 2012 by General Banzai