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General Banzai

Proposed Thracia Names Changes

185 posts in this topic

[quote name='Othin' date='18 April 2012 - 05:59 AM' timestamp='1334739555' post='1943626']
So what you're saying is, the kana does not express a difference, yes?

Perhaps you might consider paying attention next time?
[/quote]
Why don't you follow your own advice?

"Deviating in ways that are NOT expressed in the Kana" can be read as "taking liberties"

Like in Belf -> Vergil - the kana doesn't support that -gil; ベルフ could be read as Verf, but the Vergil reading deviates in a way that isn't expressed in the kana

And while it could be read as simply dealing with alternate readings, the emphasis on the "not" implies he's talking about something he finds wrong Edited by TheEnd

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I wasn't making any suggestion beyond pointing out that fact.

Haven't you learned by now not to make assumptions about conclusions I don't state?

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I don't think either of us like Belf -> Vergil.

I prefer Belve or Belves, myself.

[quote]using a "b" consonant in japanese to express "v" consonants in foreign languages is extremely common - more common than using ヴ with a small vowel

once again, demonstrating a lack of japanese knowledge [/quote]

I knew that. The problem is that changing a "b" to a "v" ISN'T common in English, which is why Barhara doesn't make sense in an English translation.

once again, demonstrating a lack of english knowledge Edited by General Banzai

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[quote name='General Banzai' date='18 April 2012 - 09:36 AM' timestamp='1334766992' post='1943894']
I knew that. The problem is that changing a "b" to a "v" ISN'T common in English, which is why Barhara doesn't make sense in an English translation.

once again, demonstrating a lack of english knowledge
[/quote]

[quote name='VincentASM' date='05 April 2012 - 12:29 PM' timestamp='1333654182' post='1925923']
Nit-picking slightly, but Barhara is more of a modified version of Valhalla rather than a crude romanisation. The romaji is Baahara, which means it can only be Va[b]r[/b]halla at best.

FE4 also does this with the Balmunk vs Balmung and Jugdral vs Yggdrasil (just missing a "si") and FE2 did it with Rainarok vs Ragnarok.
[/quote]

The thing is, references don't have to be letter for letter. :/

They can reference it while still trying to "have an original name". They can do that. Thank you Mr. "I know what I'm talking about" English major.

[s]Someone just HAD to throw gasoline on a smoldering pile of sticks. This "discussion", if I can call it that, is like beating a dead horse without anyone to actually implement the changes. Checking Japanese Wikipedia for translations, only having a knowledge of katakana, and insisting your interpretations are valid above all other else... I'm just staying away from this thread now, it's not worth it. The FE12 translation storm was more entertaining than this.[/s] Edited by shadowofchaos

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[quote name='General Banzai' date='18 April 2012 - 01:36 PM' timestamp='1334766992' post='1943894']
I don't think either of us like Belf -> Vergil.

I prefer Belve or [b]Belves[/b], myself.[/quote]
Hahaha

[quote]I knew that. The problem is that changing a "b" to a "v" ISN'T common in English, which is why Barhara doesn't make sense in an English translation.

once again, demonstrating a lack of english knowledge
[/quote]
>Barhara
>Canon name written in plain Romaji in FE4
>Translation
>"I'm familiar with the canon"

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[quote name='TheEnd' date='18 April 2012 - 09:31 AM' timestamp='1334770292' post='1943944']
>Barhara
>Canon name written in plain Romaji in FE4
>Translation
>"I'm familiar with the canon"
[/quote]
Romaji =/= English

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Oh look, we're debating Vergil again. This isn't even funny anymore. Now it's just the sad continued beating of a dead horse. Let the horse rest in peace, Banzai.

I'd like to remind you that Belves was [b]on[/b] the poll. It lost. Badly.

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[quote name='Arch' date='18 April 2012 - 09:46 AM' timestamp='1334771168' post='1943970']
Oh look, we're debating Vergil again. This isn't even funny anymore. Now it's just the sad continued beating of a dead horse. Let the horse rest in peace, Banzai.

I'd like to remind you that Belves was [b]on[/b] the poll. It lost. Badly.
[/quote]
TheEnd was the person who brought Vergil up

Why don't you bitch at him instead kthx

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[quote name='General Banzai' date='18 April 2012 - 02:42 PM' timestamp='1334770933' post='1943968']
Romaji =/= English
[/quote]
>Name
>English
>Óðr

[quote name='General Banzai' date='18 April 2012 - 02:49 PM' timestamp='1334771352' post='1943973']
TheEnd was the person who brought Vergil up

Why don't you bitch at him instead kthx
[/quote]
At this point, it doesn't quite surprise me that you can't see the difference between mentioning something and debating something Edited by TheEnd

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[quote name='General Banzai' date='18 April 2012 - 06:49 PM' timestamp='1334771352' post='1943973']
TheEnd was the person who brought Vergil up

Why don't you bitch at him instead kthx
[/quote]
I'd rather not. He simply brought it up as an example of "taking liberties." That's entirely accurate, it was an extremely liberal change. You're the one still beating the dead horse by bringing up disdain for the change, and your "alternatives" (which were absolutely decimated in the voting). Edited by Arch

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[quote name='TheEnd' date='18 April 2012 - 09:52 AM' timestamp='1334771538' post='1943977']
>Name
>English
>Óðr
[/quote]

Do you have a point or something, I can't tell


[quote]
At this point, it doesn't quite surprise me that you can't see the difference between mentioning something and debating something
[/quote]


[quote]
Like in Belf -> Vergil - the kana doesn't support that -gil; ベルフ could be read as Verf, but the Vergil reading deviates in a way that isn't expressed in the kana[/quote]

[quote]

I don't think either of us like Belf -> Vergil.

I prefer Belve or Belves, myself.[/quote]

[quote]Oh look, we're debating Vergil again. This isn't even funny anymore. Now it's just the sad continued beating of a dead horse. Let the horse rest in peace, Banzai. [/quote]

Honestly for starters I don't even understand Arch's complaint. I guess two comments about Vergil suddenly make a debate. And I guess I'm the one who's beating the dead horse here, even though TheEnd was the one to start talking about Vergil without any provacation. And I guess TheEnd is merely mentioning Vergil, despite showing the Kana and giving a (cursory) explanation as to how it can and can not be interpreted, while I am "debating" Vergil by saying "I don't like Vergil."

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are you fucking serious

you mention that romanji (that is found [i]in-game![/i]) is != english.

and yet when you mention consistency

don't you think that it would seem a tiiiiiiny bit inconsistent

to have names in a translation patch

that don't match with shit IN-GAME

i mean christ, next you're going to tell me that the japanese people got the pronounciation of their own language wrong

(also you still haven't mentioned how you're gonna implement any of this)

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[quote name='General Banzai' date='18 April 2012 - 03:01 PM' timestamp='1334772072' post='1943983']
Do you have a point or something, I can't tell[/quote]
That doesn't surprise me

[quote]
Honestly for starters I don't even understand Arch's complaint. I guess two comments about Vergil suddenly make a debate. And I guess I'm the one who's beating the dead horse here, even though TheEnd was the one to start talking about Vergil without any provacation. And I guess TheEnd is merely mentioning Vergil, despite showing the Kana and giving a (cursory) explanation as to how it can and can not be interpreted, while I am "debating" Vergil by saying "I don't like Vergil."
[/quote]
This doesn't surprise me either

[quote name='Camtech' date='18 April 2012 - 08:20 PM' timestamp='1334791220' post='1944500']
(also you still haven't mentioned how you're gonna implement any of this)
[/quote]
It's basically "hey hackers, here are my change, implement please."

Of course, I think only a clueless (or troll) hacker would be willing, but...

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Honest question, Banzai.

Since you seem to have made a decision on changing Barhara to Valhalla, Baldo to Balde or whatever, and all that, does that mean you're actually planning to image-edit all the romaji to those names in the maps and menus?

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[quote name='Jave' date='18 April 2012 - 08:07 PM' timestamp='1334794034' post='1944594']
Honest question, Banzai.

Since you seem to have made a decision on changing Barhara to Valhalla, Baldo to Balde or whatever, and all that, does that mean you're actually planning to image-edit all the romaji to those names in the maps and menus?
[/quote]
That romaji only exists in FE4. The only locations with romaji in FE5 are the ones that are actually within the Thracian peninsula.

And when I made Banzai play FE4 he pretty much exploded. Edited by Othin

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You know, the patch as it stands already has names that contradict the Romaji on the map (Ith instead of Iss, Kelves instead of Kelbeth, Norden instead of Nohrden, Danzhi instead of Danzich), and nobody ever seemed to care about that.

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i actually did care but a) i play the game in moon anyway and b) i didn't know how to edit text in fe5 until very recently

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[quote name='Camtech' date='18 April 2012 - 04:51 PM' timestamp='1334796673' post='1944656']
i actually did care but a) i play the game in moon anyway and b) i didn't know how to edit text in fe5 until very recently
[/quote]
Well nobody spent 9 pages continually bitching about it and decrying the original translator's ability at translating (in fact they still seem to hold him up as some amazing translator despite the fact that he made the same "mistake" of not using the "canon" Romaji in either place names or Crusader scrolls).

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[quote name='General Banzai' date='18 April 2012 - 10:21 PM' timestamp='1334798461' post='1944724']
Well nobody spent 9 pages continually bitching about it and decrying the original translator's ability at translating (in fact they still seem to hold him up as some amazing translator despite the fact that he made the same "mistake" of not using the "canon" Romaji in either place names or Crusader scrolls).
[/quote]
>Translation = NAMES

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I'm not going to pretend that I know the conditions and circumstances the original translation patch was made in, but looking at it (and having played through FE5 a total of six times) I can tell that it was rushed at several parts and it wasn't polished enough. I wasn't bothered by the translation at all, but the name inconsistencies, the glitchy menus, the game-crashing bugs, and the switched sprites, were enough not to call it a good patch. I've NEVER praised the editors and hackers who worked on it.

However, I appreciated the work put into it since it was the only option non-Japanese speakers had to play the game and actually understand it. If someone is supposed to make a new patch to fix the previous patch, those things are what I expect to be, you know, fixed.

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[quote name='Jave' date='18 April 2012 - 06:04 PM' timestamp='1334801097' post='1944818']
I'm not going to pretend that I know the conditions and circumstances the original translation patch was made in, but looking at it (and having played through FE5 a total of six times) I can tell that it was rushed at several parts and it wasn't polished enough. I wasn't bothered by the translation at all, but the name inconsistencies, the glitchy menus, the game-crashing bugs, and the switched sprites, were enough not to call it a good patch. I've NEVER praised the editors and hackers who worked on it.

However, I appreciated the work put into it since it was the only option non-Japanese speakers had to play the game and actually understand it. If someone is supposed to make a new patch to fix the previous patch, those things are what I expect to be, you know, fixed.
[/quote]
Well, then let's find a hacker willing to do the hack. People lambast me for just making my edits and not having any way to implement them, but... then why aren't the people who CAN implement changes making their own patch in which they do whatever they feel like in regards to the names?

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Wild guess here... people have lives and re-translating a game is not a priority?

And for what I've heard, FE5 isn't exactly an easy game to hack.

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[quote name='Jave' date='18 April 2012 - 07:45 PM' timestamp='1334807150' post='1944996']
Wild guess here... people have lives and re-translating a game is not a priority?

And for what I've heard, FE5 isn't exactly an easy game to hack.
[/quote]
This is why I [s]re-translated[/s] edited the game for them. >.>

Of course nobody's complained about the translation itself, so... I guess people wouldn't mind using it?

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[quote]Of course, I think only a clueless (or troll) hacker would be willing, but... [/quote]
[s]I'm a troll hacker, and I'm not even willing to do his dirty work...[/s]

[quote]Of course nobody's complained about the translation itself, so... I guess people wouldn't mind using it?[/quote]
Haven't had time to read over the entire Thracia script you posted. Hackers are still gonna have to reformat your edits for insertion into the game; I hope that script is damn good.

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[quote name='General Banzai' date='18 April 2012 - 09:01 PM' timestamp='1334808094' post='1945023']


Of course nobody's complained about the translation itself, so... I guess people wouldn't mind using it?
[/quote]
Clarify what parts you edited and what parts you didn't, and people can more easily check whether your edits are kosher.

That is assuming you're talking about your edited script. "Translation" is hardly anything you did--to refer to "the translation" is to refer to FireLizard's script, by closest approximate context, and I don't think anyone minded using that for years.

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