Homosexuality in FE and gaming

[Chalis]

Oh cool. Someone says they love another person, so it must be sexual

Someone also says they want to spend more time with another person. Obviously, that has to mean they want to break their bones.

I mean, why, under any circumstances, would a person (well, in this case, a unit), consider spending time with another outside of their current adventure unless there was a sexual reason behind it?

yeah this

except, you know, fixed

Persona 2 is the only example I can think of that handled this well when it came to non ambiguity. The protagonist has all of the same faults and relationships he's had with his friends regardless of who he is personally romantically involved with.

[Biabarr]

FE5 also has the Marty ending:

Marty - The Man Whom Dagda Loved *

Marty returned to Purple Dragon Mountain and put his efforts into working the barren land. Many, especially children, loved his sheepish but kind nature.[/Quote]

I think there are some hints in some of the games (Raven/Lucius and Heather being the first that come to mind), but most of the time, I believe Nintendo leaves it to the interpretation of the player to decide if the characters are homosexual or just very close friends.

[Ϲharlie]

lol

Marty's ending doesn't imply homosexuality at all. That could easily be intended to mean that Dagda loves Marty like a son.

[Inactive Account]

A lot of characters just never have their preference stated, which is fine. When nothing is stated, though, I think most people (especially straight people) tend to just assume straight until proven or at least implied otherwise, which parallels assumptions made in real life. FE certainly does seem to have more implied queer characters than other series, but I can't think of any cases besides Heather where the implication borders on solid proof. In any case implications are not really anything groundbreaking. If Ike were canonically stated to be gay, then we'd have something uncommon on our hands, but he never is.

It certainly couldn't hurt to have more characters in gaming in general who are just sort of casually noted to be gay, or bi, or trans, or asexual, etc, and then just be completely normal about it, since, y'know, queer people are in fact normal people and decent representation is a good thing in general. I can't really say that FE does that, but maybe it's closer than some series.

[Snapdragon]

I personally consider Ike either asexual or pansexual. Either way his relationship with Soren comes off as romantic to me. But, to each their own. I don't see why sexuality can't be implied even if not blatant. As for Homosexuality in other games... wasn't there a Star Wars Game where if you were a girl your character could be a lesbian? And from what I've heard the voice actors of Metal Gear Solid have played quite a few of the scene's between Otacon and Snake as love scenes.

[nolongeractivesheep]

I personally consider Ike either asexual or pansexual. Either way his relationship with Soren comes off as romantic to me. But, to each their own. I don't see why sexuality can't be implied even if not blatant. As for Homosexuality in other games... wasn't there a Star Wars Game where if you were a girl your character could be a lesbian? And from what I've heard the voice actors of Metal Gear Solid have played quite a few of the scene's between Otacon and Snake as love scenes.

That would be Knights of the Old Republic, which was a BioWare game. BioWare is pretty much the forerunner and premier supporter of sexuality equality in games, with any of their games that have gender choices on the part of the player allowing for homosexual relationships with characters within their works. And, their developers will even totally thrash anyone who thinks that this is a bad idea with a scorning post about how they are just sexually insecure. Its kind of awesome. Dragon Age 2's homosexual options recently resulted in a rather hilarious and awesome exchange between a homophobe and an amazing developer.

[Snapdragon]

A lot of characters just never have their preference stated, which is fine. When nothing is stated, though, I think most people (especially straight people) tend to just assume straight until proven or at least implied otherwise, which parallels assumptions made in real life. FE certainly does seem to have more implied queer characters than other series, but I can't think of any cases besides Heather where the implication borders on solid proof. In any case implications are not really anything groundbreaking. If Ike were canonically stated to be gay, then we'd have something uncommon on our hands, but he never is.

It certainly couldn't hurt to have more characters in gaming in general who are just sort of casually noted to be gay, or bi, or trans, or asexual, etc, and then just be completely normal about it, since, y'know, queer people are in fact normal people and decent representation is a good thing in general. I can't really say that FE does that, but maybe it's closer than some series.

^

This so much. In media in general, especially video games, homosexuality is largely used foreither

a) "Ew! That villian is soooo evul he totally wants to do nasty stuff with the main character!"

b) lol gay stereotypes are funny

c) Occasionally fan-service. This is more typical with lesbians because female viewers are presumed to either not exist or have no sexuality.

I think it's actually worse for video games because our society is still kind of living under the assumption that video games are for guys (and children). It would be refreshing to see a prominent gay character whose entire premise wasn't "I'm gay" and all the drama that usually entails, as opposed to being just a characteristic, like blond, or jewish.

That would be Knights of the Old Republic, which was a BioWare game. BioWare is pretty much the forerunner and premier supporter of sexuality equality in games, with any of their games that have gender choices on the part of the player allowing for homosexual relationships with characters within their works. And, their developers will even totally thrash anyone who thinks that this is a bad idea with a scorning post about how they are just sexually insecure. Its kind of awesome. Dragon Age 2's homosexual options recently resulted in a rather hilarious and awesome exchange between a homophobe and an amazing developer.

Oh, wow! That's amazing! (Any chance you can point me in the direction of this exchange?)

Edited April 11, 2012 by Snapdragon

[ZemZem]

I think you guys are thinking too far into this. Most characters don't have their sexuality stated, and are easily left up to the player's imagination if they don't have marriages in their endings. I think IS's supports, or at least some of them, are strong bonds that are forged between the characters. Lucius and Raven are the closest thing each other has for family, disregarding Priscilla; the two are definitely as close as brothers. Soren isn't gay for Ike, nor is Ranulf; While I never really understood Ranulf's desire to leave Tellius, Ike is the sole reason Soren remains with the GMs.

In short, most characters are ambiguous (as Anouleth put it) and their sexuality was probably never initially thought of anyway.

I agree with all of this.

[sunshineYON]

Ahh yes, Lucius and Raven, how could I have forgotten that.

...well, I'd like to point out something that was very common until the LGBT community actually stood up for itself. Perfectly gay girls ended up being forced into relationships with way too forward men all of the time in the past. The relationship between Hector is so one-sided that it hurts, so honestly, I feel that's basically how it goes. She being shy and relatively helpless when not around Lyn results in her just going along with Hector's advances until marriage, and even after said marriage, still preferring to be around Lyn, who is conveniently one of Hector's close friends.

I like that pairing... The two might have nothing in common, but that's what make it cute, in a sense. Though you propose a very dramatic scenario, though I think in this case, you might be looking too far into it.

I think you guys are thinking too far into this. Most characters don't have their sexuality stated, and are easily left up to the player's imagination if they don't have marriages in their endings. I think IS's supports, or at least some of them, are strong bonds that are forged between the characters. Lucius and Raven are the closest thing each other has for family, disregarding Priscilla; the two are definitely as close as brothers. Soren isn't gay for Ike, nor is Ranulf; While I never really understood Ranulf's desire to leave Tellius, Ike is the sole reason Soren remains with the GMs.

In short, most characters are ambiguous (as Anouleth put it) and their sexuality was probably never initially thought of anyway.

There is definitely some "taking it and running away with it" mentality in the fanbase. Though this doesn't rule out all support endings as actual romantic relationships. The most running away I can think of is definetely the pokemon series, where every character is paired with every character with no evidence whatsoever... the series aimed particularly at little kids. I mean, we have random gym leader x random gym leader, same sex or not, and they all have like 3 lines of dialogue and never met each other.

[MacLovin]

Personally, I think that Ike is just completely oblivious to any sort of affection towards him, except for sibling bonds with Mist.

Now, alot of this is just speculation, so we may be ALL wrong.

[Agro]

Actually... Yuri and yaoi are common in Japan because homosexual relationships aren't looked down upon at all, really. In fact, Japan works essentially the same was as ancient Greece. Girls can run with girls and boys can run with boys, and in fact, its /expected/ for this to happen. Its only once people get older that the expectation for them to have a heterosexual marriage comes in, and that's just for children. Marrying sheerly out of love is still a relatively new thing in Japan. The younger generation of Japanese are also kind of flipping this expectation on their head, especially when you consider how widespread yuri and yaoi serials are, and how the most popular yuri serial, Yuri-hime, has a 3/4ths female subscriber base.

I've actually talked about this with my friends in Japan, and from what I've seen, that isn't the case. Homosexuality is generally accepted in fiction, largely due to its heavy romanticisation (I just made that word up): homo relationships and hetero relationships are practically the same; one person ends up being the "girl" in the relationship and the other the "man" (excuse me for gender stereotyping). They're often born out of admiration for each other rather than sexual feelings, stemming from ancient Samurai practises which are a complete misrepresentation of relationships altogether.

Reality, however, is quite different. Homo-relationships of most kinds are still quite uncommon and seen as a little weird, and people aren't as uncaring about them as you might think.

[Celice]

That being said, there's still an awful lot of homo stuff in Japanese lit, from what another student was telling me before.

land of the rising sun--no homo

[Fenrir]

My 2 cents on Ike's sexuality:

First thing I wanted to address was Ike/Soren, Soren is clingy to Ike obviously which you can take 1 of 2 ways. Soren and Ike's relationship involves a romance. Or, more likely that Soren was abandoned or hated by everyone in life and needs somebody like Ike to be around and he's just friends with him, I have dealt with other dudes like this.(Soren and Stefan can make a country together if they are A support at end of RD, does that mean they are romantically interested? It could, but isn't likely) I highly doubt Soren provides any evidence to this claim. Second thing, he runs off with Ranulf possibly, I really never ever caught anything between these two except they were just naturally really good friends. This could feed speculation that they had sexual relations, doesn't actually seem too far fetched, but it's still far fetched. I doubt Ranulf was gay, but we're all just speculating here.(His denial of Lyre looks a lot like Ike's denial of Aimee. Lack of interest in certain annoying women =/= interest in men)

Most of the rest of speculation is fueled by lack of relationship with Elincia and others, and stern denial of Aimee. Ike's about 18 in FE9 and 21 in FE10, he also happens to be a general in the most important war ever, is it so weird he doesn't care about sexual relations? Or because he doesn't act as many of us would(Get fame, get women) we should go, "OMGZ IKE IZ GAY!!!11?

We don't know anything for certain about Ike's sexuality but it appeared to me that he was most likely heterosexual. I think he said in a conversation with Aimee that down the line he wanted a wife and family, could be wrong on this though.

[Sunwoo]

Soren and Stefan can make a country together if they are A support at end of RD

What? Is that true? I've never heard this before ...

[Ϲharlie]

I'm pretty sure Stefan "creates" a country regardless of who he supports with.

[-Cynthia-]

We don't know anything for certain about Ike's sexuality but it appeared to me that he was most likely heterosexual. I think he said in a conversation with Aimee that down the line he wanted a wife and family, could be wrong on this though.

I don't see this conversation anywhere in the script for PoR and nowhere in the conversations with Ike and Aimee in RD I can find on Youtube. So...pretty sure you just made it up. Which really goes along with kdanger's comment of "assumed heterosexuality", you even remember a conversation that didn't actually happen...perhaps because of a desire that Ike be heterosexual?

Edited April 11, 2012 by -Cynthia-

[Agile Tit-Tyrant]

Ike is not gay. The reason he doesn't end up in a relationship with a female is because he has one thing on his mind. Improving his swordsmanship.

I think it's because his first priority is his swordsmanship but if Ike is gay (honestly if you think this is true you're probably just over-analyzing everything) it's perfectly fine with me.

[General Banzai]

Thread about how homosexuals are handled in video gaming -->

90% of replies are "Ike isn't gay"

[Bluedoom]

To add on to the 90%:

Ike is asexual guys. This is fact. xD

Also Heather's most likely lesbian. I wanna think this is fact too.

Soren may be gay(sexually) or just clings to Ike since Ike's the only one who protects him. Put yourself in Soren's shoes for a change, you'd know why Soren clings to Ike so dearly.

Also I dunno what to think of Lucius x Raven. It seems like Ike x Soren but... :S

[Elieson]

Thread about how homosexuals are handled in video gaming -->

90% of replies are "Ike isn't gay"

I expected so much more from you, Folcore Black.

[General Banzai]

I expected so much more from you, Folcore Black.

I'm simply pleased that I'm not the only one who receives this inane treatment from you guys

[Fenrir]

What? Is that true? I've never heard this before ...

Indeed it is, don't have the source for it but I'm certain of it.

I'm pretty sure Stefan "creates" a country regardless of who he supports with.

Indeed he does, but only Soren can create said country with him. Due to his branded-ness.

EDIT: Didn't see this at first.

I don't see this conversation anywhere in the script for PoR and nowhere in the conversations with Ike and Aimee in RD I can find on Youtube. So...pretty sure you just made it up. Which really goes along with kdanger's comment of "assumed heterosexuality", you even remember a conversation that didn't actually happen...perhaps because of a desire that Ike be heterosexual?

I could have sworn it happened. It might not of been with Aimee, but one of those conversations with Soren or Shinnon about her. It was a remark saying something along the lines of 'I don't want to make any commitment now because I'm young and a military leader, rather keep my options open and commit down the line'

Also, you made comments(As did others who you backed) which implied that you think I'm just saying this because I don't want Ike to be gay. I am just going with the argument that makes more sense to me.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Fenrir

[Ϲharlie]

Indeed he does, but only Soren can create said country with him. Due to his branded-ness.

... Huh? Soren doesn't have a paired ending with anyone but Ike. His unpaired ending even says he didn't use his tactical prowess for anyone but Ike. Likewise, Stefan's ending doesn't change regardless of his supports.

[Fenrir]

... Huh? Soren doesn't have a paired ending with anyone but Ike. His unpaired ending even says he didn't use his tactical prowess for anyone but Ike. Likewise, Stefan's ending doesn't change regardless of his supports.

Not exactly reliable.

MAJOR SPOILER KIDS!

http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/32359/t1270481-third-game-in-tellius-series-possible-spoilers/

Yeah, can't find shit on it right now, 100% sure it's true. Talk to Rfof or someone else who knows their FE10 shit.(I claim to be on this, but in reality i'm probably just a dumbass)

[General Banzai]

Not exactly reliable.

MAJOR SPOILER KIDS!

http://www.neoseeker...sible-spoilers/

Yeah, can't find shit on it right now, 100% sure it's true. Talk to Rfof or someone else who knows their FE10 shit.(I claim to be on this, but in reality i'm probably just a dumbass)

It's not true