Edited Thracia Script

[Jave]

I thought Eyvel was used since that's how the name was romanized in the TCG.

[dondon151]

Evayle and there's not really anything in the Kana to suggest it going either way, unless someone can find some mythological reference I missed.

エーヴェル

emphasis on the leading vowel

also TCG, and everyone uses either eyvel or evayle

[General Banzai]

Time and again we have indicated the inaccuracy of the TCG names (Jorjue, for instance, and a million others). I understand claiming in-game romanizations as the basis for translations on the grounds of preventing contradicts between the game script and the game map, but the TCG really has no bearing on any of that.

Hell, we don't even use Deke instead of Dieck, despite that source being in Super Smash Brothers.

And yes, Serisu, they "will". It doesn't take a seer to conjecture how a change from Evayle to Aibell will go down with the people who complained about changes like Pahn to Pan and Baldo to Balde. I mean, honestly, what are you even trying to say with that comment? Do you really expect that everyone would just be all "Oh yeah Evayle to Aibell everything's just all honky-dory"? Of course I still don't think anyone has complained about Skashach and Oisin seemed to gain a lot of ground very fast, so maybe it's just name changes that I suggest which are the problem and if somebody else wants to go propose Aibell in my stead we can have a pretty picnic or something

As for FireLizard's permission. 1. Don't think he even exists anymore. 2. Whoever programmed the original patch made unauthorized edits to FireLizard's translation that FireLizard hasn't cared about for the past six years, so something tells me I'm a-okay

[Celice]

FireLizard gave permission for his script to be used, from what I remember. He was an active member when Shaya decided to put the script into the game, and I believe, for the record, made a few posts in the thread commencement too. Secondily, I doubt FireLizard has died--until he has, his existence has not "ceased."

Not only do you distance yourself from necessary knowledge relative to this script and its contents (FireLizard's consent, Japanese), you seem to be unawares of them.

EDIT

FireLizard hasn't cared about for the past six years, so something tells me I'm a-okay

What's with you and your continually assertion of assumptions? You're not just making them left and right--you start to twist them as justification some times!

Edited April 21, 2012 by Celice

[shadowofchaos]

Time and again we have indicated the inaccuracy of the TCG names (Jorjue, for instance, and a million others).

And time and again you are dismissing a source entirely because of certain instances. Just like your "Dark Load" argument. Translation requires that you, have a least a respectable amount of knowledge in both languages and are familiar with what the original spirit of the work is meaning to convey, rather than just "I looked this up, I think that's what this is saying". You are to look at each and every source, rather than dismissing one which "has a bad egg", which is where the personal judgement from the translator comes in. Firelizard was able to look at the raw Japanese and understand what it's conveying, much like we understand the story of the FE games in plain English. The mere fact that you say "I understand Katakana" and "that's all names are" already shrinks your potential authority on the subject. Adding to that, TE having to explain the context of the story on more than one occasion shows that your edits... are just edits.

[General Banzai]

Sorry dear, but TheEnd never had to explain the context of the story, he just liked to pretend he did.

Secondly, my edits... are just edits. That's what I've been fucking saying this whole time, I'm not trying to revolutionize how we see the story, I'm just cleaning up the prose, oh my fucking god cut me some slack already, I refuse to discuss names in this thread there's another thread for that, so take your Aibell shenanigans elsewhere, and what do you expect me to do about FireLizard go hunt him down IRL just to get his permission to spellcheck his unauthorized uncopyrighted translation of a story that he owns zero rights to?

If we were to edit the patch and keep everything the same and just remove the IN AMERICA etc jokes, would we have to track down Shaya just to get his permission for that?

Do you guys have anything to say about my edits to the script or are you just going to keep saying "you're a poor authority" over and over and over again and use that as a basis to dismiss everything I do? Because honestly my credentials are better than probably all of you for doing what I am actually doing here: PROOFREADING AN ENGLISH-LANGUAGE SCRIPT.

[TheEnd]

Sorry dear, but TheEnd never had to explain the context of the story, he just liked to pretend he did.

Mother of God, my mind is being read

Do you guys have anything to say about my edits to the script or are you just going to keep saying "you're a poor authority" over and over and over again and use that as a basis to dismiss everything I do? Because honestly my credentials are better than probably all of you for doing what I am actually doing here: PROOFREADING AN ENGLISH-LANGUAGE SCRIPT.

>Proofreading English language script

>Can't interpret English text

>CREDENTIALS

[General Banzai]

>Proofreading English language script

>Can't interpret English text

>CREDENTIALS

>Proofreading English language script

>English Major

>Yes, credentials

"A credential is an attestation of qualification, competence, or authority issued to an individual by a third party with a relevant or de facto authority or assumed competence to do so. Examples of credentials include academic diplomas, academic degrees, certifications, security clearances, identification documents, badges, passwords, user names, keys, powers of attorney, and so on."

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Credentials

Majoring in English (at the University of California Los Angeles, which I assume counts as a third party with a relevant or de facto authority with assumed competence) is a credential. Having a generic internet asshole say I can't interpret English text is not a credential.

Try again

Edited April 21, 2012 by General Banzai

[Celice]

You're a pretty poor example of what the school should be crediting then

[Parrhesia]

>Proofreading English language script

>English Major

>Yes, credentials

"A credential is an attestation of qualification, competence, or authority issued to an individual by a third party with a relevant or de facto authority or assumed competence to do so. Examples of credentials include academic diplomas, academic degrees, certifications, security clearances, identification documents, badges, passwords, user names, keys, powers of attorney, and so on."

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Credentials

Majoring in English (at the University of California Los Angeles, which I assume counts as a third party with a relevant or de facto authority with assumed competence) is a credential. Having a generic internet asshole say I can't interpret English text is not a credential.

Try again

ok

So like it's a translation of Japanese. You have an original script to be faithful to as well. Not many English majors speak Japanese. Get the fuck at me.

You're also throwing in Irish mythology randomly

okay

wasn't aware that English majors read Celtic myths

i am enlightened

By the by, if you're calling people 'generic' because they disagree with you, then you're sorta implying that average (aka most) people will disagree with you.

I don't think that was what you meant to do, but I'll roll with it.

[Sunwoo]

You're a pretty poor example of what the school should be crediting then

I'm not going to get into a discussion about Thracia or translations or Banzai, but ...

Don't you dare insult UCLA.

[Celice]

You're also throwing in Irish mythology randomly

okay

wasn't aware that English majors read Celtic myths

i am enlightened

English majors, when done "correctly," should end up as swiss-knives of pretty much any kind of expression. It's more about realizing the complication which involves something as basic as a thought. If you're Banzai stuck in one single mindset, you did it wrong. Very, very wrong. That's not an English major. That's... really unfortunate.

credentials--5/6 years english degree inb4 ***'s appeal to self-worth

Don't you dare insult UCLA

Hey, I know peeps that go there. They're alright. School's alright. There's a certain element that's not alright.

Edited April 21, 2012 by Celice

[Parrhesia]

Don't you dare insult UCLA.

One might argue that the gravest insult was it being associated with this edit at all.

[Sunwoo]

One might argue that the gravest insult was it being associated with this edit at all.

Furetchen, I honestly have no idea what that's supposed to mean.

[Parrhesia]

Furetchen, I honestly have no idea what that's supposed to mean.

I would've thought you'd be able to figure it out. Then again, I would've thought you'd have had the sense to stay out of the cesspool that is Guess The Above Person's Disgusting and Pathetic Fetish.

Majoring in English (at the University of California Los Angeles, which I assume counts as a third party with a relevant or de facto authority with assumed competence) is a credential. Having a generic internet asshole say I can't interpret English text is not a credential.

He is defending this entire thing by dint of his degree at UCLA. This is not something one would hope to be associated with.

[Sunwoo]

Eh, I've never been good at "figuring things out". It's a flaw and I'm going to be honest about it -- I'm slow at a lot of things.

Agreed that just majoring in English doesn't really give one "credentials," though. I'd hope he'd actually GET his major first before saying he actually has credentials.

[Parrhesia]

If this was actually competent in its execution, it might count as a credential for the future. It'd be something to stick in a resume for future script edits, at any rate.

As it stands, if you put this in a resume it'd just serve as a warning.

[General Banzai]

What's wrong with the edit again?

And no, not the names, the edit. Nobody's said anything against it.

In fact, what's wrong with changing Eyrios to Ilios again? People have said that it's irrelevant, that they preferred Eyrios, that the Kana could potentially mean Eyrios, etc. But what is wrong with Ilios? In what way did I screw up so royally by choosing the name Ilios that I should be embarrassed that I ever did so, that it should count as a credential against me in all my future endeavors?

Or changing Hezul to Hothur? Man, that change really indicates how awful I am at English. I'm an embarrassment to UCLA. I clearly show no knowledge of Japanese, Old Norse, or English when I made that change. I'm just absolutely bankrupt in knowledge of my own language.

I'm just suuuuuch a fucking moron.

If you're Banzai stuck in one single mindset, you did it wrong.

Bitch please. Did you read my justifications for my name changes? You know, where I analyzed the Katakana, cross-referenced it in comparison to the Norse myth and the Norse myth's Katakana, determined the linguistic deviations in the Old Norse character ð, and synthesized the entirety of this knowledge to come up with a translation?

Do you know what the one thing standing against me is?

Do you?

It's that there's Romaji in FE4 that says Hezul.

The lot of you have clung to Romaji as your sole defense against my changes.

You've said "Just because it references a Norse myth doesn't mean it's supposed to be the exact same word," despite that fact that I accounted for that in making my changes, and that I explained how I accounted for that in my initial justification of my name changes, yet nobody seemed interested in picking apart that argument. Nobody looked at my interpretation of the Kana for Hezul and said "No, you are interpreting it wrong, here is the specific way that your lack of Japanese and Old Norse has caused you to misread what is being said." Dondon came the closest by saying that the Kana could be interpreted both as Hezul and as Hothur and also as Hezr or Hethul or a bajillion other interpretations so that doesn't necessarily mean I'm right (and no, he did not specifically use Hezul as an example, he used Celice, but I hope I've represented his argument well enough here).

I got some bad news for you sunshine: It doesn't necessarily mean I'm wrong, either. Certainly not to the degree that I disgrace the name of English Majors and UCLA students everywhere.

Saying that you prefer the old names or that everyone is already used to the old names is likewise not a statement that my interpretation of the Kana is wrong, simply that somebody else had a different interpretation earlier that everyone's used to. Is NOA a disgrace to translators everywhere because they reneged against popular fan translations and went with names like Jagen and Ogma? And don't go in and say "They were authorized to make those changes, you're just some guy" because that's not what we're fucking talking about here. It was what we were talking about when we were arguing whether or not fan translators should strive to localize or not. What we're talking about now is the assertion of you buffoons that my edit is of such poor quality that it is a black mark against me and everything that claims I am a competent English student. I want you to point to any name change that you feel is not simply a pointless change, or a change that you don't like, but rather a change that is specifically WRONG, that is specifically in no way supported by either Katakana, Old Norse, or English.

Is it Ilios, despite the fact that it's supported more by the Katakana than Eyrios is?

Is it Hothur, even though it's an Anglicized version of the Old Norse that the original Katakana is attempting to represent?

Is it Connaught, even though it uses the exact same Kana as the identically-named Irish province?

Go on, tell me. You can point out the Romaji in the game and say "making a change would create a contradiction between the Romaji and your translation", okay. That doesn't fucking mean that my translations are WRONG, just that I haven't the resources to go into the game and change the Romaji to match up with my changes. At the very worst it simply means I'm going against "authorized" names, despite the fact that both fan translators and official localizers have disregarded similar "authorized" names many, many times in the form of Jorjue, Mars, Deke, Serlis, Zigludo, Sheeda, Kain, Marich, Oguma, Rinda, Paora, Katua, Gordon, etc, etc, etc, etc.

You say "Oh you're disregarding the whole TGC because of a few bad apples." Wrong. Of the fifty-four TCG romanizations for FE1, only NINE line up with the "official" translations used in Shadow Dragon. Go count them yourself if you don't believe me, they're all located in the Gallery section on this very site.

Nine. Out of fifty-four.

And this is a source we should use as the primary basis when translating names? This is just "a few bad apples"?

I mean, if we're going by the TCG as the primary basis for our names, and disregarding all references to mythology (or even just plain common sense names like Roger Rojar), then I guess we're going to have to make name changes to the patch anyways.

We'll have to change:

Lachesis to Rackesis

Levin to Levn

Beowulf to Beowolf

Fury to Ferry

Kein to Kain

Pahn to Pirn

Blume to Bloom

Tinny to Teeny

And more.

So is this really the primary source that we want to use? Do we even want to base our translations on it at all? If we take the FESD names as an example, the TCG is only an accurate representation of the intended names about 16% of the time.

So, in disregarding the TCG, am I "stuck in one mindset"?

I guess so

Edited April 21, 2012 by General Banzai

[Hawk King]

Ok, let me get this straight. Banzai has gone out of his way to clean up the Thraccia 776 script in an attempt to make it more enjoyable/understandable, and instead of being appreciative, everyone seems to be hostile and degrading to him. Did I miss something?

I would like to give you my thanks Banzai. I hope that your edited script will find its way into a patch for this game. That way when I play it someday, I can enjoy the story without the typos.

Thank you Sir.

[Sunwoo]

Ok, let me get this straight. Banzai has gone out of his way to clean up the Thraccia 776 script in an attempt to make it more enjoyable/understandable, and instead of being appreciative, everyone seems to be hostile and degrading to him. Did I miss something?

Long story short:

A lot of people here don't like Banzai.

[Hawk King]

You dont need to like someone to say thanks...

[dondon151]

Ok, let me get this straight. Banzai has gone out of his way to clean up the Thraccia 776 script in an attempt to make it more enjoyable/understandable, and instead of being appreciative, everyone seems to be hostile and degrading to him. Did I miss something?

you missed the part where banzai is a tooly hipster

which is a pretty big part, not sure how you missed that.

look hardly anyone is criticizing his revisions of actual dialogue (mostly because we can't be bothered to read through it, but it's also pretty fucking hard to change it to something wrong or worse), but the revisions of proper nouns in the game are completely unnecessary and only serve to cater to banzai's elitist english mindset. he's mad that we're not accepting his interpretation as "right," while he is unwilling to accept the fact that his interpretations are not quantitatively more right because we can't read the minds of the game developers.

and of course, maybe we'd be nice to him if he weren't so adamant about this!

in short: why was banzai in this topic instead of smoking weed on 4/20

Edited April 21, 2012 by dondon151

[Parrhesia]

What's wrong with the edit again?

And no, not the names, the edit. Nobody's said anything against it.

What do you want me to call this thing as a whole, then? I was literally just looking around, looked at the title, went with 'edit'. Which, you know, the names are a part of.

In fact, what's wrong with changing Eyrios to Ilios again? People have said that it's irrelevant, that they preferred Eyrios, that the Kana could potentially mean Eyrios, etc. But what is wrong with Ilios? In what way did I screw up so royally by choosing the name Ilios that I should be embarrassed that I ever did so, that it should count as a credential against me in all my future endeavors?

You chose a name that sounds nothing like Eyrios, that no man on this godforsaken earth would recognise as Eyrios, and I keep trying to type Eyrious instead, like some kind of fucking adjective or some shit

ey·ri·ous

   [eye-REE-oss]

adjective

1.

Completely unrecognisable from the more currently accepted translation, without sufficient evidence to outweigh it.

2.

Requiring the death of another character, despite both that character and the subject being likable.

Or changing Hezul to Hothur? Man, that change really indicates how awful I am at English. I'm an embarrassment to UCLA. I clearly show no knowledge of Japanese, Old Norse, or English when I made that change. I'm just absolutely bankrupt in knowledge of my own language.

If you genuinely think they are even faintly similar in sound or appearance to each other, then yes, you have no knowledge of your mother tongue.

I'm just suuuuuch a fucking moron.

That was easy.

Bitch please. Did you read my justifications for my name changes?

My eyes glazed over after a while and I started to think about silky auburn hair. No, I did not read your justifications.

You know, where I analyzed the Katakana, cross-referenced it in comparison to the Norse myth and the Norse myth's Katakana, determined the linguistic deviations in the Old Norse character ð, and synthesized the entirety of this knowledge to come up with a translation?

That is why. To me, they are irrelevant.

Do you know what the one thing standing against me is?

Do you?

Yes.

It's that there's Romaji in FE4 that says Hezul.

... Maybe? The thing that ACTUALLY stands against you is that we've been saying Hezul for-fucking-ever and you're one guy unsupported by any form of authority besides an English degree.

The lot of you have clung to Romaji as your sole defense against my changes.

I don't know what Romaji is.

I got some bad news for you sunshine: It doesn't necessarily mean I'm wrong, either. Certainly not to the degree that I disgrace the name of English Majors and UCLA students everywhere.

The implication that you're disgracing your college was only half a joke - you're warping your degree by clinging to it in a completely unrelated field.

everyone is already used to the old names

My argument. Vergil was insignificant, stuck in a game I still don't actually understand how it was played. (If someone would explain Satellaview to me... well, you've probably wasted your time. I'll just google it sometime, most likely.)

Is NOA a disgrace to translators everywhere because they reneged against popular fan translations and went with names like Jagen and Ogma? And don't go in and say "They were authorized to make those changes, you're just some guy" because that's not what we're fucking talking about here.

... Why can't I say that? What are we talking about here? I don't even care about your ability as a translator.

What we're talking about now is the assertion of you buffoons that my edit is of such poor quality that it is a black mark against me and everything that claims I am a competent English student. I want you to point to any name change that you feel is not simply a pointless change, or a change that you don't like, but rather a change that is specifically WRONG, that is specifically in no way supported by either Katakana, Old Norse, or English.

Don't even care about technical accuracy. I don't care if your precious kana supports fuckin' Overlord Spencer Jinoffsky instead of Eyrios. What has been used should at least be recognisably in the final product. If you hand me Ilios out of context, I'm not recognising that shit.

Is it Ilios, despite the fact that it's supported more by the Katakana than Eyrios is?

Is it Hothur, even though it's an Anglicized version of the Old Norse that the original Katakana is attempting to represent?

It's simply that they are unrecognisable. I can see Malliesia in Malicia, Raiden in Leiden, Vergil in Belf. Hothur? What the fuck is that, some kind of cancer of the balls? The sound you make when you start to suffocate on bubble gum?

(Connacht, Meath, Leinster, Munster and Ulster are the exceptions in my mind because it's such an OBVIOUS link with all five of them but seriously fuck the translators for cocking that up)

At the very worst it simply means I'm going against "authorized" names, despite the fact that both fan translators and official localizers have disregarded similar "authorized" names many, many times in the form of Jorjue, Mars, Deke, Serlis, Zigludo, Sheeda, Kain, Marich, Oguma, Rinda, Paora, Katua, Gordon, etc, etc, etc, etc.

1. What is your problem with Hezul? Because it doesn't sound like a piece of shit that was obviously meant to be something else. These? Do.

2. Who the fuck made Zigludo, Serlis and Rinda 'authorised'? Ever? Is this the fucking TCG again, because that's like kicking a baby in the face. With steelcaps.

You monster.

You say "Oh you're disregarding the whole TGC because of a few bad apples." Wrong. Of the fifty-four TCG romanizations for FE1, only NINE line up with the "official" translations used in Shadow Dragon. Go count them yourself if you don't believe me, they're all located in the Gallery section on this very site.

I believe you, and I don't think anyone is arguing that for the most part they are complete shit.

So, in disregarding the TCG, am I "stuck in one mindset"?

While one can't disregard the good ones because they happened to also be stuck with the veritable mountain of bad apples (I can't be bothered to look back and check whether you're actually arguing this, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you aren't), I do agree with you that it isn't a reliable source of anything except laughter.

(The best part is that I don't even care about most of these. Hell, I preferred Vergil to Belf, giving not a damn to how little/much sense it may have made. However, Vergil is a shitton less memorable than, say, Hezul or Evayle.)

Ok, let me get this straight. Banzai has gone out of his way to clean up the Thraccia 776 script in an attempt to make it more enjoyable/understandable, and instead of being appreciative, everyone seems to be hostile and degrading to him. Did I miss something?

Let's be honest, I will at least say that the existing translation can go fuck itself for its broken menus and thrown-in memes. If it was a choice between this theoretical patch and the existing one, I'd go with this one purely on the basis of it having fixed menus.

That said, most of these changes are unnecessary, and again like with FE12 it has devolved to the point of 'can we get a fucking product'

Jorjue

As an aside, before FE11's release and still in my DERP FANTASY NAMES MUST BE FANTASTICAL AND PREFERABLY FUCKING UNPRONOUNCABLE phase, I did actually prefer this translation.

Also dondon pretty much just summed everything up very laconically, rendering me obsolete. Alas.

Edited April 21, 2012 by Furetchen

[TheEnd]

So Banzai is one of those who gauge their abilities based on how prestigious their uni is, and not on how competent they actually are

"Best names" are opinions, and name changes are not improvements when they hurt in-game coherence ("ETHLIN IS WRONG" - how arrogant of you, it's a name the creators put there and the fandom is already used to it; all you accomplish by this is stroking your own ego)

And being unable to tell the meaning of a plain sentence or when a literary work wants to leave something "in the air" does certainly qualify as an inability to interpret text

Good prose isn't necessarily the one that explains everything and leaves nothing to imagination - in fact, that's boring prose

Also guys, Banzai can't hack, all he's doing is "improving" Firelizard's script while presuming he's dead

[Onmi]

TheEnd, just out of curiosity, would you call the current Thracia Translation a good translation. No opinions on Banzai or anything else.

Also for fucks sake he shouldn't have to get Fire Lizards permission, Fire Lizard didn't get Masayuki Horikawa's permission when he translated it, and you certainly didn't get Kouhei Maeda's permission to translate FE12, and before you think you can be a smart ass and go "Well then I'll just stop translating FE12" I honestly could not give two fucks. I haven't played it now and am in no rush to play it when it comes out. It's completion would not effect me and I don't care enough about other people to be to buggered if they get screwed.

My point is the permission argument is stupid. This whole thread has devolved into stupid.