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General Banzai

Edited Thracia Script

94 posts in this topic

[quote name='Sirius' date='21 April 2012 - 11:24 PM' timestamp='1335065043' post='1949516']
After some discussion it has been decided that this and Popo's thread will now be opened. You may resume what you're doing but unless you have permission from the people involved in the original work, you may not redistribute the patch in this forum.

I will close this thread again (there's no need of that copyright stuff to do it) if there's any more crap going on that has little to nothing to do with the script editing and Banzai, learn to take criticism.
[/quote]

Sirius, I'm overruling this one as well. See my post here: http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=31088&view=findpost&p=1950508

So if a patch comes about from these edits, you're allowed to post it. If Firelizard comes back from the dead and says he actually didn't want it (which by the way, he almost 100% certainly won't... I knew the guy) we'll do damage control. But legally, he can't actually stop you from using his translation.

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[quote name='Jyosua' date='22 April 2012 - 12:44 PM' timestamp='1335123875' post='1950519']
Sirius, I'm overruling this one as well. See my post here: http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=31088&view=findpost&p=1950508

So if a patch comes about from these edits, you're allowed to post it. If Firelizard comes back from the dead and says he actually didn't want it (which by the way, he almost 100% certainly won't... I knew the guy) we'll do damage control. But legally, he can't actually stop you from using his translation.
[/quote]
Under [i]which countries'[/i] copyright law? It's not like FireLizard is, you know, a U.S. citizen and falls under its laws, as an example.

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That's true. He was a Japanese citizen in the US as a student at the time he wrote this. Japanese copyright law (which is what the original work is copyrighted under) would be what would technically apply here, and it's the same. The rights to translations or other derivative works belong solely to the creator of the original work, unless they relinquish or transfer those rights. That means that you cannot copyright a translation of works that do not belong to you. It's part of the economic rights section of Author's rights.

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Good. If someone's going to slur in legal proceedings, they better be [b]valid[/b] ones, which means having the correct laws being evaluated in regards to correct circumstance.

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The same could be said of sprites and fanarts so why the double standards?

Legal issues aside. What about respecting FireLizard's work? He has spent months working on this script for the community and the only way you find to thank him is basically saying, "we can do whatever we want with your script." That's nice. No wonder the Japanese see foreign fans as completely ungrateful and tactless.

Also, there are several persons working on the FE12 translation. I wonder how they'd feel if you told them what they write doesn't matter because you can change it if you feel like it. Because if it were me, it would deter me from working for such a wonderful community. Edited by Marthur

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Actually, yeah, there's more to this. If we accept Jyosua's interpretation/word, that means Nintendo can come and take all the effort done by the Mother 3 group, capitalize on it, and not have any repercussions over it. Thieving the work of others becomes legally sound. Hopefully no one's grasping for straws in their attempt to justify their decisions.

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[quote name='Celice' date='22 April 2012 - 05:14 PM' timestamp='1335129283' post='1950653']
Actually, yeah, there's more to this. If we accept Jyosua's interpretation/word, that means Nintendo can come and take all the effort done by the Mother 3 group, capitalize on it, and not have any repercussions over it. Thieving the work of others becomes legally sound. Hopefully no one's grasping for straws in their attempt to justify their decisions.
[/quote]
That's a bit of a different matter and a rather funny example, since Nintendo actually does own the copyright to Mother 3. It's hard to imagine cause for any repercussions against them in that case.

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Not paying for the labor, effort, and actual object they're taking and using for their own advantage, that they did not come up with nor have any regards to?

[i]What the fuck is wrong with you[/i]

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Please, if you have any issues about legality etc., take it up with the mods.

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[quote name='Celice' date='22 April 2012 - 05:21 PM' timestamp='1335129702' post='1950664']
Not paying for the labor, effort, and actual object they're taking and using for their own advantage, that they did not come up with nor have any regards to?

[i]What the fuck is wrong with you[/i]
[/quote]
When that labor and effort functioned as an infringement of Nintendo's copyright? I think it's perfectly fair to say that Nintendo owns any authorized translations of their work and can do with them what they wish.

What would be your proposed repercussion, anyway? Have Nintendo pay royalties for a script that was merely a translation of their own script, to people who were distributing it to help people play illegal copies of the game Nintendo owned? Edited by Othin

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Mathur just PM Jyo, he may not respond to your post here.

As for the copyright talk, make a new thread or something. Just keep it out of here. Edited by Sirius

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[quote]What would be your proposed repercussion, anyway? Have Nintendo pay royalties for a script that was merely a translation of their own script, to people who were distributing it to help people play illegal copies of the game Nintendo owned? [/quote]
This is the funniest thing I've read all day.

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[quote name='Celice' date='22 April 2012 - 05:14 PM' timestamp='1335129283' post='1950653']
Actually, yeah, there's more to this. If we accept Jyosua's interpretation/word, that means Nintendo can come and take all the effort done by the Mother 3 group, capitalize on it, and not have any repercussions over it. Thieving the work of others becomes legally sound. Hopefully no one's grasping for straws in their attempt to justify their decisions.
[/quote]

For the record, I'm pretty sure something similar has been done before. By Atari, I believe.

On a side note, that's not what I'm saying. If you're infringing on someone else's copyright by translating their work unauthorized, then you are expected to pay damages to the owner of the copyright, which although a simple translation seems harmless, when it gets put into a translation patch it strongly encourages the company to not localize it and indirectly costs them potential revenue. Let's face it: Our community is at fault for us not receiving localized versions of older games and FE12. Were there not full-blown translation patches already, the company might have seen it as more profitable to localize them. But everyone interested in playing them already has, so what's the point?

Additionally, on the subject of translations, they are often (ESPECIALLY in the US) not viewed as original enough to qualify as derivative works unless it's something like the Poetic Edda or the Iliad where the work is public domain and you can translate from the original text. Because of this, the translated work (even if you are PAID to translate it!) is still viewed as the property of the original work's author, to the point where they don't even have to credit the translator! This has been an issue translators have been fighting for years, but copyright and patent reform is something that is slow moving, and may not occur anytime soon.

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Also, Eaichi (who worked on the original patches/translations) has returned and given approval to the script edit projects. This should be a moot point by now.

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[quote name='General Banzai' date='23 April 2012 - 03:57 PM' timestamp='1335211040' post='1952263']
Also, Eaichi (who worked on the original patches/translations) has returned and given approval to the script edit projects. This should be a moot point by now.
[/quote]

He was an editor, not a translator, and I'm not sure if he actually worked on the FE5 patch. No offense, but I feel like I've done on the legwork on this one. Edited by Popo

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[quote name='Popo' date='23 April 2012 - 12:07 PM' timestamp='1335211650' post='1952273']
He was an editor, not a translator, and I'm not sure if he actually worked on the FE5 patch. No offense, but I feel like I've done on the legwork on this one.
[/quote]
I talked to him in chat and he said he worked on the Thracia patch as well.

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[quote name='General Banzai' date='23 April 2012 - 04:11 PM' timestamp='1335211901' post='1952279']
I talked to him in chat and he said he worked on the Thracia patch as well.
[/quote]
Did he explicitly give approval to your project as well?

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[quote name='Jyosua' date='23 April 2012 - 09:23 AM' timestamp='1335169403' post='1951694']
For the record, I'm pretty sure something similar has been done before. By Atari, I believe.

On a side note, that's not what I'm saying. If you're infringing on someone else's copyright by translating their work unauthorized, then you are expected to pay damages to the owner of the copyright, which although a simple translation seems harmless, when it gets put into a translation patch it strongly encourages the company to not localize it and indirectly costs them potential revenue. Let's face it: Our community is at fault for us not receiving localized versions of older games and FE12. Were there not full-blown translation patches already, the company might have seen it as more profitable to localize them. But everyone interested in playing them already has, so what's the point?
[/quote]
Actually, the people who decided to translate FE12 (which isn't even nearly translated) did so in response to there being no news of there being an official localisation. The game was released in Japan in July 2010; the first talk I can find of a translation project is from July 2011. If Nintendo of America had been planning to localise FE12, they would have done it or at the least planned to do so or announced it before people on this site had tried to do so themselves.

So I think it's rather a stretch to blame the community here for the lack of a localisation.

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[quote name='Celice' date='22 April 2012 - 04:14 PM' timestamp='1335129283' post='1950653']
Actually, yeah, there's more to this. If we accept Jyosua's interpretation/word, that means Nintendo can come and take all the effort done by the Mother 3 group, capitalize on it, and not have any repercussions over it. Thieving the work of others becomes legally sound. Hopefully no one's grasping for straws in their attempt to justify their decisions.
[/quote]

Actually, I followed the translation project, and I'm pretty sure Tomato said he'd be absolutely fine with them using his translation if it meant it would get an official release.

But I digress.


EDIT: On another note, which thread should I follow if I want to follow the progress of the new FE5 patch? There are two threads about this right now: this one, and "Any Chance of a new Thracia 776 patch that doesn't **** with the names?"[font="Arial"][size="2"] I'm assuming this is the "official" one.[/size][/font] Edited by Flock of Geese

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