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OrangeCrush980

Is Awakening trying too hard to appeal to Smash Bros fans?

94 posts in this topic

Just something that's been bugging me recently. I suppose it isn't a bad thing; in fact, it might be a large reason why Awakening's sales are through the roof. But starting with FE12, IS seems to be milking Smash Bros for popularity.

- In FE12, Marth of course was the main character. But we also had My Unit, whose official artwork which appeared on the boxart looks very similar to Ike. How convenient, Marth and "Ike" are both on the boxart as a result.

- In FE13, we get another Ike lookalike in the form of Krom. Krom even has a similar backstory, since he's the leader of a small but skilled combat group, and he has a younger sister who's a cleric. Krom wields a Falchion, which is Marth's signature weapon. Speaking of Marth, one of the main characters is "Masked Marth" who claims to be the real Marth.
[spoiler]"Masked Marth" isn't the real Marth. However, she's a girl who strongly resembles Marth and is the game's second lord. This is possibly a shout out to all the Smash Bros fans that have mistaken Marth as a girl.[/spoiler]
So once again, two of the game's most important characters are people who resemble (or are) Marth and Ike.

Additionally, FE13 introduced DLC to the series. It was inevitable that Marth, Roy, Ike, and Lyn would all show up eventually via this in one way or another, but it happened even faster than I expected. Traditional Marth was the first main DLC character announced and given a big revamp, with Roy being tied for second with Leaf. Roy's design makes him look very badass, while Marth's makes him look like a girl, which are likely references to how Smash Bros fans perceive them. Additionally, Ike and Lyn cameo in Marth's joining chapter and there's little doubt in my mind that Ike will be in the next batch of recruitable DLC.

Overall, this isn't too much of a bad thing. Ironically, it hurts SSB4 the most because all of the important characters from FE13 are too similar to characters already in Brawl, so they either have to boot an existing character or add someone not as important or relevant.

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Pretty sure that Ike is basically the most popular main character ever, so it seems natural they'd model Krom on him. Just as Ike was originally inspired by Hector, iirc. Edited by Anouleth

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[quote name='Klokinator' date='25 April 2012 - 02:35 PM' timestamp='1335375306' post='1954744']
"Roy isn't in this game guys...!"
[/quote]
He will be tomorrow

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I pretty much agree with everything, except...

[quote]Additionally, [b]Ike and Lyn cameo in Marth's joining chapter[/b] and there's little doubt in my mind that Ike will be in the next batch of recruitable DLC.[/quote]
This point is stretching it slightly, since a whole bunch of characters also cameo in that chapter.

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FE has a lot of debt to pay for SSB, considering it is what catapulted the series from total obscurity in the west.
I'm fine with it if they want to appeal to that crowd. The FE characters are some of the most popular and played characters in SSB since their inclusion.

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Marth was already THE poster boy for the entire Fire Emblem series... What's the surprise?

And, the recent shift of direction of stronger Lords like Hector, Ephraim, Ike and now Chrome, is definitely a much welcome change.
(This disqualifies Lords that die halfway through their game, naturally :P)

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Erm. Consider this:

There are 10 preceding non-remake Fire Emblem Games. Of those, Marth has starred in 2, Ike in 2, Roy in 1, and Lyn in 1.

That's 6 games. Even if you ignore Lyn for not being playable that's still half the games. It's not possible to not show SSB favoritism since it already spans half the games. Edited by Wooster

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[quote name='Wooster' date='25 April 2012 - 12:23 PM' timestamp='1335378239' post='1954811']
Erm. Consider this:

There are 10 preceding non-remake Fire Emblem Games. Of those, Marth has stared in 2, Ike in 2, Roy in 1, and Lyn in 1.

That's 6 games. Even if you ignore Lyn for not being playable that's still half the games. It's not possible to not show SSB favoritism since it already spans half the games.
[/quote]
I was wondering when someone was going to bring this up. I don't remember the last time I read a topic this stupid.

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Then there's stuff like Leaf's chapter and Marth's being full of characters people that played SSB wouldn't even know about.

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Marth is more or less [b]the [/b]main chara for the entire fire emblem series,which is also the reason why he plays a role in the game.

The fact that chrome is rather similar to ike is most likely because lords like these are quite popular and this way we have chrome as a counterpart to the masked Marth.

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Trying too hard would be paying Project Sora (or whoever makes the ssbb games) Money so there would be 3 (or more) Fe characters. The way I see it, there will be 2 Fire emblem characters in SSB4.

Krom (Starter)

Marth (Early-Mid Unlock)

And the Possiblility of Ike/Roy as a secret character.

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That, or, they could put in an ax, lance or *gasp* magic-user, since there are already plenty of physical specific type characters in SSB.

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Honestly, I'd rather the SSB4 cast from FE be Marth, Ike, and Masked Marth using MM's real name (which I'm not using here because of spoilers). With Masked having a movepool mixing from the previous two lords. Ike's popular enough on his own to make the cut, I doubt they need to keep shifting second Lords like they do Latest Mons (which will probably be Lucario's fate when SSB4 hits the world).

As to the topic, the changes to the FE franchise are a mix of an added western audience and Smash being exceedingly popular on it's own. Most of the moves to revitalize the game can be pointed at trying to open up a bigger audience (Causal Mode, My Unit) but to say that that is specifically due to "Smash Fans" is taking it a bit far.

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[quote name='Rakath' date='25 April 2012 - 08:23 PM' timestamp='1335385405' post='1954993']
Honestly, I'd rather the SSB4 cast from FE be Marth, Ike, and Masked Marth using MM's real name (which I'm not using here because of spoilers). With Masked having a movepool mixing from the previous two lords. Ike's popular enough on his own to make the cut, I doubt they need to keep shifting second Lords like they do Latest Mons (which will probably be Lucario's fate when SSB4 hits the world).

As to the topic, the changes to the FE franchise are a mix of an added western audience and Smash being exceedingly popular on it's own. Most of the moves to revitalize the game can be pointed at trying to open up a bigger audience (Causal Mode, My Unit) but to say that that is specifically due to "Smash Fans" is taking it a bit far.
[/quote]

Sakurai has noted a few of the things that he wanted to include in the new smash bros was customization of characters abilities and appearance through the 3DS. Granted, this was in a pre-pre-production interview, so it's not exactly something we can COUNT on...
But if it is, "Masked Marth" could simply be an alternate costume for Marth that could be unlocked or downloaded.


As for shifting out characters, I honestly doubt it'll happen. Both Mewtwo and Roy weren't exactly meant to be out of the game. Their character data is partially in Brawl, and Brawl had huge time concerns through the production, so it's thought that they were given the boot due to time. Now that they're going to be having a MUCH bigger production team (I believe that they haven't even started yet due to simply wanting to gather a crap ton of popular and good developers), more time and (most likely) DLC. Furthermore, the whole "trend" of introducing a new character and kicking out the most recent one isn't even a trend yet.. it's only happened in one game. Most people just assume that because both Mewtwo and Roy got kicked out for new "versions" of themselves, that that's what SSB will be doing from here on out. I'd be willling to bet that every character will return, plus some.
You're right, Ike is popular. Not even just among FE fans, but people in general.. Same with Lucario. It wouldn't make sense to boot any of them willingly.

I foresee the glorious return of both Marth and Ike B)..
(Also, i'm personally hoping Krom makes it in too...)

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[quote name='LegendaryHero0' date='25 April 2012 - 04:49 PM' timestamp='1335386956' post='1955022']
But if it is, "Masked Marth" could simply be an alternate costume for Marth that could be unlocked or downloaded. [/quote]
I think the reason Rakath suggested it be a separate character is because

[spoiler]Masked Marth does Aether, and it'd be weird to just ignore that.[/spoiler]

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[quote name='Momo' date='25 April 2012 - 09:49 PM' timestamp='1335390547' post='1955091']
I think the reason Rakath suggested it be a separate character is because

[spoiler]Masked Marth does Aether, and it'd be weird to just ignore that.[/spoiler]
[/quote]

[spoiler] Canonically speaking, it'd definitely make more sense to have her as a separate character, yeah.. I just feel like they wouldn't dedicate a whole spot to her on a list which which is very limited. We'll likely only see 3 FE characters, maybe 4 if we're lucky. Masked Marth I could see as a throwback to her, ala Daisy costume on Peach, or Waluigi costume on Luigi :P Either way, I wanna see Marths new design in the game, Masked or not.[/spoiler]

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I think they're just trying to push the series towards a more mainstream audience in general, which is what their goal has been since Kaga left. First they simplified the story and mechanics in FE6, and since then they have attempted to give the games a more typical JRPG flair.

Marth is well-known by many people who don't play Fire Emblem, and so including him and placing him at the forefront of marketing material is another step in that broadening process. Something that always baffled me was FESD's horrendously bland NA artwork, which [i]didn't[/i] feature Marth at all. It's like they didn't even WANT the game to sell. >.>

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[quote name='Thief' date='25 April 2012 - 01:22 PM' timestamp='1335378169' post='1954808']
Marth was already THE poster boy for the entire Fire Emblem series... What's the surprise?

And, the recent shift of direction of stronger Lords like Hector, Ephraim, Ike and now Chrome, is definitely a much welcome change.
(This disqualifies Lords that die halfway through their game, naturally :P)
[/quote]


By strong, do you mean high strength stats, tough personalities, or just plain better? (That doesn't mean I think they're better)

Also, I'm not surprised that Krom resembles Ike. I mean, he's incredibly popular, and he's just awesome. He even attracted random people like me to the series! (Radiant Dawn was my first game.0

It may have been a coincidence that they included a masked Marth, just so they could have a wicked awesome plot line, of which I don't know much about.

Your logic most definitely holds up in the part about Roy=man and Marth=girl in melee. I had to convince my friends that Marth wasn't a female, because I'm the only one awesome enough to play in this series. Edited by I don't play for turns

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I always wondered what they were thinking with SDs art, it didn't stand out at all.
>.>

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[quote name='Geriba' date='25 April 2012 - 03:51 PM' timestamp='1335383464' post='1954919']
I was wondering when someone was going to bring this up. I don't remember the last time I read a topic this stupid.
[/quote]

Okay. Even if we ignore the DLC, there's still the fact that Krom is heavily based off Ike, and "Masked Marth" goes without saying. Combine that with FE12's My Unit resembling Ike and we've had 2 games in a row where two of the main characters are "Marth" and "Ike".

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[quote]there's still the fact that Krom is heavily based off Ike,[/quote]
That's an awfully big presumption.

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You guys get an Ike vibe from Krom? Okay, maybe appearance-wise they're similar, but Ike and Krom are very, VERY different people from what I get in-game. And Ike's not the only one he gets similarities in looks- I see some Ephraim in there, too. Maybe a bit of Sigurd as well.

[spoiler=Masked Marth's identity]Having Lucina as a separate character would do good for Smash Bros., too- we need more lady Smashers on the team, and really, I can see the FE team growing. And we really need a female FE character on the next Smash roster.[/spoiler]

Really, when Ike was announced for Brawl, I was totally blown away because I'm a huge fan of Ike and wasn't expecting him to end up in Brawl. I was introduced to Fire Emblem via Melee, but I found the games in which Marth and Roy weren't playable to be enjoyable.

But if they are appealing for the Smash Bros fans, they're going on the right route for me. They're also gonna introduce a whole bunch of unknown characters to those who doesn't know about Fire Emblem's past before Melee and Brawl were created. Heck, the fact they brought a song from FE Gaiden in Brawl really surprised me- it was a pretty catchy song and it ended up being a favorite!

So I think Awakening's really going for fanservice, but it's not just fanservice for the Smash Bros. fans... it's also fanservice to those who have played the games before Melee and Brawl came out. It's fanservice for people who's only heard of the gameplay. It's also fanservice for people who plays game for their gimmicks, because OMG the gimmicks in the games are plentiful.

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To be perfectly honest, I never really saw Krom as being based off of Ike. He seems totally different to me.. More like Marth than Ike, if you HAD to compare him.

Any similarity seems totally coincidental, really.

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Well, Krom and Ike both have blue hair, both have swords, both lead vigilante groups, both have that "1 piece of armour on the shoulder" thing going.

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