So, how do you think Jugdral and Tellius are doing nowadays? (SPOILERS)

[Lexington]

I just can't see the world of Jugdral/Akeneia and Tellius being connected. The laguz just seem so different from manaketes I can't see them being related. In almost all the games they appear Manaketes are portrayed as incredibly powerful beings, almost gods. Even the king of the dragon laguz Dheginsea is nothing compared to how powerful Naga is portrayed as.

This makes no sense whatsoever. The abilities of manaketes surpasses laguz, not the other way around. Also, you misunderstand why manaketes need stones to transform. In FE1/3 and FE6/7 manaketes are given a history of once being incredibly powerful dragons that lost some of their powers, forcing them to become manaketes. Manaketes do not need stones to transform because they evolved from laguz, alternate explanations are already provided. They were weakened and forced to take human form which takes less energy, but can store their powers in dragonstones.

Admittedly, I didn't play much of FE1/3 so I can't tell you anything about what is being said there about manakete origin.

But even if they tell you this in FE1/3, history never lies, right? Never at any point did people not discern between history and legend, right?

I'm pretty sure what they tell you in the games is what people believe, not the hard facts.

Manaketes on par with gods?

Yeah, remember all those gods that appeared as strong, but still regular, enemies?

And how you totally don't have to rescue Tiki in the current game to recruit her, because she is so godlike?

Naga however is probably more of a god, maybe demigod, not just another manakete, so you can't really compare to Dheginsea.

Was there any explanation as to why manakete supposedly just lost so much of their power, that they had to take human form?

Seems kinda weird to me, how something could just affect an entire race like that.

Edit: Oh, I know how it happened. Relationships with Beorc

I know that there is no real hard evidence for my theory, but looking at it from a critical point of view, I think there's not much hard evidence for your theory either.

Besides that, I just like my theory better ;) I'd really like Jugdral/Akeneia and Tellius to be connected.

Edited May 20, 2012 by Lexington

[The_Purple_Knight]

Tiki is weak because she's always asleep and that's why shes always asleep . Apparently at full strength she has the power to completely destroy the world .hence why narga put her to sleep in the first place . He didn't want her going nuts like the other dragons and ripping the world into pieces . Narga if he and nagi are the same person was also weak when he/she woke up, and obviously he/she was once extremely powerful. So tiki is probably just as much of a demi god is narga is , she just always goes back to sleep before her powers can fully manifest. Same thing with all the bosses they're all so weak because they've just woken up. They're aren't fully recovered.

[Pineapple]

Just a thought, maybe Tellius is...

The continent south of Iris?

Kilvas and Phoenicis could possibly be those islands in the ring. They would have to moved a bit but still....

I think that's a nice hypothesis. It's not impossible that all the continents apart from Tellius (and whatever is east of the hadar desert) was submerged, but then returned later. Several times during our own history has continents been submerged under water, to then come back over water and be resided again later. Granted, it usually takes a long time, but there are scenarios in our own history of continents (or at least countries) ending up completely under water, and then reappearing a few thousand years later. It's happened due to tectonic plates, and due to ice ages.

I just can't see the world of Jugdral/Akeneia and Tellius being connected. The laguz just seem so different from manaketes I can't see them being related. In almost all the games they appear Manaketes are portrayed as incredibly powerful beings, almost gods. Even the king of the dragon laguz Dheginsea is nothing compared to how powerful Naga is portrayed as.

This makes no sense whatsoever. The abilities of manaketes surpasses laguz, not the other way around. Also, you misunderstand why manaketes need stones to transform. In FE1/3 and FE6/7 manaketes are given a history of once being incredibly powerful dragons that lost some of their powers, forcing them to become manaketes. Manaketes do not need stones to transform because they evolved from laguz, alternate explanations are already provided. They were weakened and forced to take human form which takes less energy, but can store their powers in dragonstones.

I don't see why this is a problem, really. While the Tellius Laguz aren't stronger than the manaketes (but not really noticeably weaker either), the dragon tribe could easily be explained as "incredibly powerful dragons". They'll always be compared to their own time period, and the Tellius Dragons were "incredibly powerful dragons", to the extent that their king could nearly challenge the goddess herself. Additionally, it's entirely possible that the Laguz continued to grow in power before the ending winter happened.

The "old" Manakete explanation and the "Laguz evolved to Manaketes" fit with each other relatively well. The only real change is that the "incredibly powerful dragons" are instead Laguz. Which, while far from certain, is a pretty good hypothesis if you ask me.

[Baldrick]

Admittedly, I didn't play much of FE1/3 so I can't tell you anything about what is being said there about manakete origin.

But even if they tell you this in FE1/3, history never lies, right? Never at any point did people not discern between history and legend, right?

I'm pretty sure what they tell you in the games is what people believe, not the hard facts.

In FE3 Book 2, Chainey gives the history of the dragons. He could be mistaken, but in fiction, if history is revisionist, it tends to come to light in the end, or at least be relevant in the end. This is neither, so there's no reason to assume Chainey is wrong apart from justifying a WMG.

Was there any explanation as to why manakete supposedly just lost so much of their power, that they had to take human form?

Seems kinda weird to me, how something could just affect an entire race like that.

In Elibe, it was the Ending Winter. In Akaneia, we're not given any details beyond "a day of ruin", though it could be related to the Ending Winter.

[Othin]

Random thought: if we assume the water level has been falling the whole time, maybe the northern continent really is Magvel after Grado collapsed but the sea just fell further and eventually caught up to it?

[Liz]

honestly, when it comes to the issue of laguz/manaketes, they may function apparently different because their fundamental nature was changed when they bounded their powers to the stone.

like, once their laguz form bending powers were turned to stone, they essentially became "branded" or something of a similar nature (i'm not sure they actually even name the laguz who have completely lost their powers). this laguz power could only be unlocked by individuals who had the bloodline of the laguz/manakete, which would explain why Ninian/Nils could also become dragons despite being of mixed heritage. but this is me just hypothesizing about it. although it would be really cool if it was true because that could potentially allow Soren to formshift to a black dragon, Stefan to formshift to a lion, and Micaiah to formshift to a heron. But I dunno.

and about all the dragons being gods or not, i don't think so. I think it's more likely that Naga and co are indirectly influenced by Ashunera. she did say she wouldn't be afraid or something of that nature when she awoke at the end of Radiant Dawn (i'm too lazy to look up the actual quote). i'm not sure if there is someone directly influencing the dark dragons though, although it wouldn't be something entirely foreign for Ashunera to have an evil counterpart we just haven't heard of yet.

this is assuming the games are connected, though.

[Agro]

how about "the writers made the games' mythology independent of each other and then they realised they'd fucked themselves over when they made Awakening connect all the games"

no?

[luchinania]

how about "the writers made the games' mythology independent of each other and then they realised they'd fucked themselves over when they made Awakening connect all the games"

no?

makes sense.

[The Radiant Hero]

I don't know why people think Jugdral is very advanced, time doesn't have to do with technology it's the human needs that made technologies, but Jugdral have magic and Magic is more sufficient than technology they don't have the need to develop....

Edited May 22, 2012 by Azuren the Hero

[Othin]

makes sense.

It really doesn't. Not when we see FE1/2/3/4/5 which are clearly connected and then FE6/7 which also fit in extremely well.

[Sunwoo]

What about FE9/10, which would come either first or be unrelated to the rest of the series? And FE8, which is sort of ... there?

[Othin]

What about FE9/10, which would come either first or be unrelated to the rest of the series? And FE8, which is sort of ... there?

I don't believe they would make seven relevant games and then just randomly start making irrelevant ones. Just because the connections aren't clear outside of FE13 doesn't mean they don't exist.

[Rewjeo]

I don't know why people think Jugdral is very advanced, time doesn't have to do with technology it's the human needs that made technologies, but Jugdral have magic and Magic is more sufficient than technology they don't have the need to develop....

A: Developing weapons that are even more powerful than magic seems mighty enticing, no?

B: What about travel? Ease of life? Magic doesn't seem very widely available, and we don't know much about what it does outside of killing people.

C: Is there any case of people not working on improving their technology (or magic) levels based on the fact that things are already "good enough?"

[RNG Princess]

I think that Nada Kuya girl Saleh mentioned is Micaiah ^^'. Daein was invaded by Begnion, but the sword comment threw me off so maybe its Lyn. Was Celica's home country invaded by another, or Lucina's? Or maybe its that girl that wielded both of the swords, ragnell and alondite because not much of her is mentioned.

I also think the dragons taking human form has to do with FE10. I remember that Volug made one comment that he was always in dog form because it was more comfortable, maybe the dragon species took their dragon form and adapted to always being in it as a means to rebuild Goldoa? There were also stones in fE10 that laguz use such as the laguz stones, and perhaps they became addicted to using them and it became their only means of transformation.

I really want them to release a timeline ^^' I want to know which game was first and which game was most recent by the timeline.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Queen_Emelina

[Othin]

Anyone know where to look to get the full script for the Nada Kuya conversation?

[RNG Princess]

Here ^^'

http://www.serenesforest.net/fe8/support/007.html

It's their B Support

I suspect its Miccy or Lyn because both of them loved nature.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Queen_Emelina

[Just call me AL]

Here ^^'

http://www.serenesforest.net/fe8/support/007.html

It's their B Support

I suspect its Miccy or Lyn because both of them loved nature.

I don't think either one of them wielded a sword that has similar origins to Marth's/Krom's/Lucina's Falchion.

[The Radiant Hero]

A: Developing weapons that are even more powerful than magic seems mighty enticing, no?

B: What about travel? Ease of life? Magic doesn't seem very widely available, and we don't know much about what it does outside of killing people.

C: Is there any case of people not working on improving their technology (or magic) levels based on the fact that things are already "good enough?"

Irrelevant.....there's an old saying in my language " The need is the mother of inventions" and the lack of needs well have a lack of inventions , ease of travelling can be achieved but still 2000-4000 year doesn't imply advanced technology because human have been living on earth for 4000,000 years and only in the last 2000 years of these 4000,000 years we saw such fast pace in technology development.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Azuren the Hero

[Lexington]

Irrelevant.....there's an old saying in my language " The need is the mother of inventions" and the lack of needs well have a lack of inventions , ease of travelling can be achieved but still 2000-4000 year doesn't imply advanced technology because human have been living on earth for 4000,000 years and only in the last 2000 years of these 4000,000 years we saw such fast pace in technology development.

I agree.

Back in ancient Greece and Rome there was hardly any technological advancement, because why try to invent and build machines that can do the job, when you have cheap slaves that can do it.

There was no need for it.

[Rewjeo]

We don't know much about technology in prehistoric humans, and for a lot of that time they were not nearly as smart as the more modern human species and were focused on surviving in a much more dangerous world than ours. Technology has seen a ton of improvement since the last Ice Age, and that probably isn't a coincidence. Saying the Greeks and Romans didn't improve technology much is a joke. Architecture, art, military technology, boats, science, etc. etc. They had a massive impact on the modern world specifically because of all the things they changed about the world.

And more specifically regarding the need thing: We, today, are in a vastly better place in just about every conceivable way than the Jugdralians, and yet we keep on advancing even farther. Certainly we don't *need* to, but we keep on doing it.

[RNG Princess]

Knoll mentions a time warping spell when he supports Duessel or Natasha so maybe FE8 is the most recent ^^'.

[Book of Ereshkigal]

It was only to see into the future/(probably) past, though. Not to actually time travel.

[Jediabiwan]

I think that Nada Kuya girl Saleh mentioned is Micaiah ^^'. Daein was invaded by Begnion, but the sword comment threw me off so maybe its Lyn. Was Celica's home country invaded by another, or Lucina's? Or maybe its that girl that wielded both of the swords, ragnell and alondite because not much of her is mentioned.

As already described neither of then fit. The weapon being described is clearly similar to the falchion. Micaiah doesn't use a sword and even if the Sol Kaati somehow fits the description of the sword Lyn doesn't match the description of the events.

I also think the dragons taking human form has to do with FE10. I remember that Volug made one comment that he was always in dog form because it was more comfortable, maybe the dragon species took their dragon form and adapted to always being in it as a means to rebuild Goldoa? There were also stones in fE10 that laguz use such as the laguz stones, and perhaps they became addicted to using them and it became their only means of transformation.

I really want them to release a timeline ^^' I want to know which game was first and which game was most recent by the timeline.

As already explained in the other games dragon took human forms for two reasons. One being some unexplained event in Akaneia that caused them to begin to degenerate and the other being the Ending Winter in Elibe which caused dragons to lose much of their power forcing them to take human form. Both these histories are revealed by a surviving dragon and show the truth as compared to the human version of history meaning there is very little chance that they are incorrect.

[Lexington]

We don't know much about technology in prehistoric humans, and for a lot of that time they were not nearly as smart as the more modern human species and were focused on surviving in a much more dangerous world than ours. Technology has seen a ton of improvement since the last Ice Age, and that probably isn't a coincidence. Saying the Greeks and Romans didn't improve technology much is a joke. Architecture, art, military technology, boats, science, etc. etc. They had a massive impact on the modern world specifically because of all the things they changed about the world.

And more specifically regarding the need thing: We, today, are in a vastly better place in just about every conceivable way than the Jugdralians, and yet we keep on advancing even farther. Certainly we don't *need* to, but we keep on doing it.

Of course they have advanced culture a lot, but I was mainly talking about things like machines that do your work for you or make it considerably easier.

Architecture and art are not the kind of technology I was talking about.

You are right about boats for example, they had to invent better boats, because just using more slaves does not have the same effect.

[The Radiant Hero]

We don't know much about technology in prehistoric humans, and for a lot of that time they were not nearly as smart as the more modern human species and were focused on surviving in a much more dangerous world than ours. Technology has seen a ton of improvement since the last Ice Age, and that probably isn't a coincidence. Saying the Greeks and Romans didn't improve technology much is a joke. Architecture, art, military technology, boats, science, etc. etc. They had a massive impact on the modern world specifically because of all the things they changed about the world.

And more specifically regarding the need thing: We, today, are in a vastly better place in just about every conceivable way than the Jugdralians, and yet we keep on advancing even farther. Certainly we don't *need* to, but we keep on doing it.

Rewjeo, I'm not a believer of Darwin's theory, for me it makes utterly no sense for Humans maybe you can say it's true for other living things, because I believe only the physical attributes change in evolutions but the brain remain the same with no further change (because as you know brain cells can't do Mitosis nor Meiosis unlike all the other cells ) that's why evolution happens every time you do mitosis or Meiosis your body will change all the time it might not change to a degree that you can notice or anyone notice but it' not the same exact body you have before some attributes have changed in it, even if you think that the first human being is a monkey which mean that monkey was as smart as me and as any human today....the only thing that changes in the brain is the way we view things my friend and the view of those who live in the ancient ages is different than ours , but their mistakes is what made us realize the truth....

Edited May 23, 2012 by Azuren the Hero