Newcomers That Are Practically Guaranteed to Be in SSB4

[Randoman]

I'm wanting this thread to have heavily realistic newcomers rather than speculative or "wishful thinking" characters. But if this thread is still considered redundant, feel free to close it.

Anyways, what characters are practically guaranteed to be in SSB4?

The main ones I can think of are Krom and Zoroark, seeing how Smash Bros. has a tendancy to be current with secondary Fire Emblem and Pokemon representatives. I don't think they'd use Victini, like a lot of other people think since Zoroark is in the vein of Mewtwo and Lucario, being a humanoid shaped Pokemon. Also, Zoroark is basically the Lucario of the 5th Generation, being among the first Pokemon in its generation revealed and having a movie based on it. Krom, I don't think I need to say anything more since he's the main character of the most current Fire Emblem, just like Roy and (to an extent) Ike were for Melee and Brawl.

Sakurai also heavily implied that he's reviving old Nintendo characters, and I have a huge hunch that Takamaru (from Nazo no Murasame Jō) will be one of them, with subtle references to his series and characters in the Wii generation (Samurai Warriors 3, Captain Rainbow, Nintendo Land even though it's the Wii U generation). That, and I can't think of any other retro characters that would work well as playable characters.

Mega Man is also practically guaranteed to be in, given Sakurai hinting at a Capcom character and how both Nintendo and Capcom admitted publicly that they were waiting for the other to ask for Mega Man in Brawl.

I would say Shulk from Xenoblade Chronicles, but given that they gave Golden Sun the shaft in Brawl when it came to playable characters, I'm betting that they might do the same with Xenoblade.

[Replica Model]

If Sakurai is the director of the game then there has to be at least a Tales character or two. I vote Lloyd Irving and Yuri Lowel! No matter how much I love Guy Cecil I have to say those two.

[Komeiji Koishi]

Vesperia was (depending on who you ask, sadly) not on the Wii, so chances of that happening are slim. Lloyd Irving or maybe Luke fon Fabre have more of a chance of apperaing. Also, here's hoping Shulk appears as a playable character(or atleast assist trophy)

[Pat]

I'd bet on both a revamped Pit and a second character from Kid Icarus. Whether that character is Palutena, Dark Pit, Magnus, or whoever, either would be grand.

[Ema Skye]

I don't really see a fifth Gen rep for Pokemon being that guaranteed, because the Fifth Gen is basically over as it is. All of the Pokemon are released, the DS's life is running out.

As much as I'd like to see Krom, I don't think he's a guarantee either. Roy was added for the purpose of advertising the new game coming out. They had time, so they wanted to put him in. Ike was added to represent the western titles because more Fire Emblem fans would know Ike better than any of the other lords from FE7-10. Krom... really doesn't represent anything different other than the new game. So why add him when they'll just take him out in the next game when someone else can represent the new game.

I completely agree with you about Takamaru.

Sakurai has shown a general lack of interest towards third party characters after Brawl came out, so I'm sceptical if we'll even see Snake and Sonic return (looking for article on this, will edit when I find it)

I think the publicity Xenoblade got through Project Rainfall would show the developers that fans want more Xenoblade, which gives it more of a chance than Golden Sun did.

Personally, I think both King K.Rool and Mewtwo are near guaranteed. Mewtwo is THE most requested character for the next game, and King K Rool is the most requested newcomer. Due to the roster being based a bit on fan demand, I think it's pretty likely that we'll see them (plus them and Ridley are like the only Nintendo All-Stars left to put in a fighting game about Nintendo's All Stars).

[shadowofchaos]

If Sakurai is the director of the game then there has to be at least a Tales character or two. I vote Lloyd Irving and Yuri Lowel! No matter how much I love Guy Cecil I have to say those two.

... all because Scamdai Namco is part of the SSB team, huh?

You know... this is why I stay away from these kinds of threads.

I mean sure Snake and Sonic got in as third party characters... but honestly, Tales?

[Knife]

... all because Scamdai Namco is part of the SSB team, huh?

You know... this is why I stay away from these kinds of threads.

I mean sure Snake and Sonic got in as third party characters... but honestly, Tales?

Snake's just as much of a strawman as the Tales characters. Think about it: he doesn't really fit in with the kid friendly Nintendo universe.

[shadowofchaos]

Snake's just as much of a strawman as the Tales characters. Think about it: he doesn't really fit in with the kid friendly Nintendo universe.

Unfortunately for the Tales characters however, it isn't like when Hideo Kojima practically begged Sakurai to include Snake in Melee that ended up putting him in Brawl.

Sonic? He was the most requested 3rd party character and has appeared with Mario in the Olympics.

Unfortunately for Tales, they have neither of those circumstances.

The Tales fans wanting characters in Smash Bros. was like the furries speculating Krystal was in Brawl... barring the voice acting on the Lylat Cruise stage obviously.

Edited September 26, 2012 by shadowofchaos

[Ein]

The Tales fans wanting characters in Smash Bros. was like the furries speculating Krystal was in Brawl... barring the voice acting on the Lylat Cruise stage obviously.

Or maybe Star Fox fans just wanted one of their favorite characters to be playable rather than have a third Fox clone. >___>

[Randoman]

I don't really see a fifth Gen rep for Pokemon being that guaranteed, because the Fifth Gen is basically over as it is. All of the Pokemon are released, the DS's life is running out.

As much as I'd like to see Krom, I don't think he's a guarantee either. Roy was added for the purpose of advertising the new game coming out. They had time, so they wanted to put him in. Ike was added to represent the western titles because more Fire Emblem fans would know Ike better than any of the other lords from FE7-10. Krom... really doesn't represent anything different other than the new game. So why add him when they'll just take him out in the next game when someone else can represent the new game.

I think the publicity Xenoblade got through Project Rainfall would show the developers that fans want more Xenoblade, which gives it more of a chance than Golden Sun did.

Hm... What characters do you think they'll have for Pokemon and Fire Emblem then? For Melee and Brawl they've always used the mascot characters for those series (Pikachu, Marth, and Jigglypuff if you count her) plus characters from the latest games from those series (Pichu, Roy, Lucario, and Ike). I'm not really sure they'll change around that pattern for SSB4, especially if it means overrepresenting the 1st Generation of Pokemon.

Your Xenoblade comment makes sense. There aren't really any patterns that I can use from the previous Smash Bros. games to determine if they'll represent Xenoblade or not (which is why I thought a Golden Sun comparison would be the best reference to use).

Snake's just as much of a strawman as the Tales characters. Think about it: he doesn't really fit in with the kid friendly Nintendo universe.

Snake in Brawl still irks me to this day. His dark, realistic, uncolourful appearance makes him stick out like a sore thumb among the SSB cast, his realistic game universe is the exact opposite of what you'd expect from a fantasy game universe from a Nintendo game, he's way more of a Sony character than a Nintendo character, and he just plain doesn't belong in Smash Bros. I'm hoping Kojima is satisfied for getting his wish in Brawl and won't convince Sakurai to stick him in SSB4, especially since there's Playstation All Stars Battle Royale where Snake can be in a Smash Bros. like game where he won't be out of place.

[Ein]

Would Samus be out of place by that logic as well as the FE crew's presence? >_>

[Stark]

Luke fon Fabre and Kratos Aurion. I wish...

[Knife]

Unfortunately for the Tales characters however, it isn't like when Hideo Kojima practically begged Sakurai to include Snake in Melee that ended up putting him in Brawl.

Sonic? He was the most requested 3rd party character and has appeared with Mario in the Olympics.

Unfortunately for Tales, they have neither of those circumstances.

The Tales fans wanting characters in Smash Bros. was like the furries speculating Krystal was in Brawl... barring the voice acting on the Lylat Cruise stage obviously.

There will inevitably be some Tales element seeing as Bandai Namco is developing. I wouldn't be surprised if Gundam somehow made it in.

[shadowofchaos]

There will inevitably be some Tales element seeing as Bandai Namco is developing. I wouldn't be surprised if Gundam somehow made it in.

That's an assumption. Bandai Namco has hell of a lot more series that has a fan following than JUST Tales.

Where does your "inevitably" stem from... besides Bandai Namco is affiliated with development? It's not THEIR project. It's Nintendo's. They're helping.

That's the part I hate about the Tales fanbase and why I'm reluctant to declare myself a fan of the series... the fanbase expects to be treated with the respect they laud their favorite games with. They want to be in everything.

Especially the Symphonia people. They laud the characters like Kratos about as much the FF Fanbase lauds Cloud/Sephiroth.

Tales being in a Smash Bros. game is about as fitting as Blazblue characters in here.

Edit: I admit that was a little... much on my side and biased with the fanbase experience, but now that I'm a bit calm now, in ALL honesty, I'd expect Gundam to show up before Tales does if Sakurai even considers new third party additions.

Edited September 26, 2012 by shadowofchaos

[Ema Skye]

Hm... What characters do you think they'll have for Pokemon and Fire Emblem then? For Melee and Brawl they've always used the mascot characters for those series (Pikachu, Marth, and Jigglypuff if you count her) plus characters from the latest games from those series (Pichu, Roy, Lucario, and Ike). I'm not really sure they'll change around that pattern for SSB4, especially if it means overrepresenting the 1st Generation of Pokemon.

Your Xenoblade comment makes sense. There aren't really any patterns that I can use from the previous Smash Bros. games to determine if they'll represent Xenoblade or not (which is why I thought a Golden Sun comparison would be the best reference to use).

For FE, I pretty much think it'll be Roy returning (he's right up there with Mewtwo in terms of fan demand, or it'll be Krom. Krom really does lack Roy's huge popularity, and I say that as a Krom supporter. I'd seriously be surprised if Roy didn't get in seeing as how much people in Japan want him back.

As for Pokemon, it's always difficult to decide what to do with them. But I think the pattern between Pichu and Lucario that you pointed out is merely coincidental. Pichu was added, alongside the other clones, at the end of Melee's development to buff up the roster, and they needed someone who could mirror another character's moveset. Sakurai also wanted a joke character. There's no logic in turning Raichu into a joke character when it is stronger than Pikachu, so they went with Pichu. Pichu was never added because they wanted a second gen rep. Because of that, maybe Lucario can stay around. But if Mewtwo comes back, then Mewtwo and Lucario are pretty similar moveset wise (which is why not making Lucario more of a fighting type was a bad idea), so then maybe Lucario should go. But then who's popular enough to be the new Pokemon rep? idk, maybe something like Garchomp or something (haha, totally out of left field). I wouldn't be surprised if we get 5 Pokemon characters all from the 1st gen. Pretty much all the popular Pokemon come from the 1st Gen, and popularity takes you places in the realm of the Pokemon (There' 649 of them, you need the fan demand to stand out).

[Randoman]

For FE, I pretty much think it'll be Roy returning (he's right up there with Mewtwo in terms of fan demand, or it'll be Krom. Krom really does lack Roy's huge popularity, and I say that as a Krom supporter. I'd seriously be surprised if Roy didn't get in seeing as how much people in Japan want him back.

As for Pokemon, it's always difficult to decide what to do with them. But I think the pattern between Pichu and Lucario that you pointed out is merely coincidental. Pichu was added, alongside the other clones, at the end of Melee's development to buff up the roster, and they needed someone who could mirror another character's moveset. Sakurai also wanted a joke character. There's no logic in turning Raichu into a joke character when it is stronger than Pikachu, so they went with Pichu. Pichu was never added because they wanted a second gen rep. Because of that, maybe Lucario can stay around. But if Mewtwo comes back, then Mewtwo and Lucario are pretty similar moveset wise (which is why not making Lucario more of a fighting type was a bad idea), so then maybe Lucario should go. But then who's popular enough to be the new Pokemon rep? idk, maybe something like Garchomp or something (haha, totally out of left field). I wouldn't be surprised if we get 5 Pokemon characters all from the 1st gen. Pretty much all the popular Pokemon come from the 1st Gen, and popularity takes you places in the realm of the Pokemon (There' 649 of them, you need the fan demand to stand out).

According to this post, Sakurai tries to have current representatives for game series (hence why Pichu was put in despite being similar to Pikachu and Roy being put in instead of Leaf, even though Leaf is of more importance being in two games with him being the main character in one of them). That's why I'm speculating Krom and Zoroark will replace Ike and Lucario (though I personally want Lucario to stay, I don't think it's likely).

Regarding Roy and Mewtwo returning, besides polls and their beta data in Brawl being more developed than other beta characters there isn't really anything solid that hints for or against their return . But I do know that Sakurai doesn't necessarily listen to fan demand for characters if they aren't that strong of a representative for their series (like how Krystal wasn't included but Wolf was due to him being more prevalent in the Star Fox series, or the Masked Man from Mother 3 not being in since they wanted to restrict playable Mother characters to the protagonists). That especially holds true for Fire Emblem, since a lot of people requested Lyn, Hector, and Ephraim and none of them were playable. Ike was the most current FE protagonist at the time (barring Micaiah) and he was the one that ended up playable.

I can understand why you think it's a bit ridiculous to add "current representatives" only to have them removed from the next game, but I personally think it's even weirder to have representatives from a series that never change despite how many new games get released for that series (like all 1st Generation Pokemon or never having a new lord character to represent Fire Emblem). If the series representatives for those games always stays the same despite having new games released for those series, then that's not really fair representation.

On a bit of a tangent, what do you guys think of Toad's chances? I remember that regarding Mario newcomers for a new Smash Bros. (before Melee came out), the most wanted characters in order were Bowser, Peach, Wario, then Toad. Sakurai didn't want to add Wario to Melee because he didn't want too many Mario newcomers to be added at once, so maybe in the same way that Wario being added was delayed, we might see Toad? I think it's 50-50 right now, since although there's quite a lot of fan demand for him, I don't really think Sakurai is promoting him any higher than Peach's Standard Special.

[Hardin]

I think the problem with Toad, is that a lot of people see him these days as a generic character, and not, THE Toad.

With regards to guaranteed characters, it's hard to come up with any from my perspective. With Brawl, there were obvious choices like Wario, Diddy, and Meta-Knight. Now however, it seems like there are no characters who have "earned" a spot unanimously, but rather a large pool of lesser favourites. That said, I do think it's time for Takamaru to make his Smash debut. I think he's the best Famicom era character left, and if he doesn't appear now, he's not coming unless he gets a new game.

[Randoman]

I think the problem with Toad, is that a lot of people see him these days as a generic character, and not, THE Toad.

I see your point, especially with no generic (barring Pokemon) characters being added ever since Yoshi in 64. I personally wouldn't heavily bet on Toad's inclusion as a playable character either, but I still think that's he's the most likely Mario newcomer if they're adding one.

Does anyone think that they'll add whatever new character from the new IP Shigeru Miyamoto is working on? Miyamoto has mentioned his brand new game quite a few times, and he's also mentioned that he's wanting to add a new character to the Nintendo cast.

[Randoman]

I hope this double post is okay, given that it's an update of sorts.

It's recently been shown that Captain Falcon, Shiek, Princess Peach, and Toad costumes will be available for the Wii U version of Tekken Tag Tournament 2. Tekken is made by Namco Bandai, the same people that are co-developing SSB4. They also showed a while back that

. Given that all the characters they have costumes for (besides Toad) have been in Smash Bros. and Bandai Namco are developing both Tekken Tag Tournament 2 and Super Smash Bros. Wii U/3DS, this may significantly up Toad's chances of being in the next Smash Bros.

[Hardin]

Well, I believe that the Tekken team actually has nothing to do with the developers at BN working on Smash, so I doubt this means anything at all. I wouldn't take anything out of this other than fanservice.

[Raven]

Scyther would be the dog's bollocks. I'd main it.

Edited October 16, 2012 by Raven

[Tangerine]

If you're going to expect any playable Namco character, expect Pac-Man or KOS-MOS. They are by far Namco's most popular videogame characters.

The only thing adding a Tales character would accomplish is advertisement for the series, because they are more consistently released than Pac-Man, and KOS-MOS' series is retired (and all three were on a Sony console).

One thing's for certain; if Pac-Man isn't added, it's unlikely that any Namco character will be.

Edited October 21, 2012 by Tangerine

[Melonhead]

Yeah, Pac-Man. Sonic has a pretty snug fit in with the series, I wouldn't be suprised to see him return again. Snake and Tales wouldn't fit in with anything, keep it as family friendly characters that all know and love.

I'll be honest in the fact that I don't like 3rd parties in SSB, it just seems to be an advertising stunt, and doesn't make the game PURE. Keep it at the 1st and 2nd party Nintendo games.

Back on topic though.. Zoroark and Krom seem almost certain, Victini and a new character from Kid Icarus is most likely going to happen, and maybe one or 2 new mario Characters. Others would be significant characters from the games already on, Such as Rosalina, Louie, and Waddle Dee..

Edited October 21, 2012 by Melonhead

[Tangerine]

It doesn't seem right because Nintendo has never relied on third party series' to sell their console - because third party devs have never relied on Nintendo. At least speaking from the N64 and forward, where they had real competition. There are very few third party characters associated with Nintendo's consoles, unlike a company like Sony which has quite a few that your average gamer wouldn't even think are third party.

I don't really like seeing third party characters in Smash Brothers games myself, it really does just look like advertising.

Edited October 21, 2012 by Tangerine

[Randoman]

I'll be honest in the fact that I don't like 3rd parties in SSB, it just seems to be an advertising stunt, and doesn't make the game PURE. Keep it at the 1st and 2nd party Nintendo games.

It doesn't seem right because Nintendo has never relied on third party series' to sell their console - because third party devs have never relied on Nintendo. At least speaking from the N64 and forward, where they had real competition. There are very few third party characters associated with Nintendo's consoles, unlike a company like Sony which has quite a few that your average gamer wouldn't even think are third party.

I don't really like seeing third party characters in Smash Brothers games myself, it really does just look like advertising.

THANK YOU. Finally people who want to keep Smash Bros. purely Nintendo. It's been a while I've seen people say this since so many people have just accepted it.

Regarding Snake being in Playstation All Stars Battle Royale even though he was in Super Smash Bros. Brawl, I was only thinking two things, take him and keep him. Kojima finally got his wish for Snake being in a Smash Bros. game, and Sony has their own Smash Bros.-like fighter that Snake would be much more at home at. There was just so many things wrong with Snake being in a Smash Bros. game: he's not Nintendo, he's much more associated with Sony than Nintendo, he sticks out like a sore thumb among the colourful Nintendo characters and worlds (barring the Game and Watch universe for obvious reasons, but even then G&W is cartoony enough to fit), his game series barely has any fantasy-like elements to it unlike the various Nintendo franchises out there (whether they be sci-fi fantasy or magical fantasy). and his game series is known for its heavy violence, something that heavily contradicts with Nintendo's game series. I really don't get why Raiden was used instead of Snake for Playstation All Stars Battle Royale.

For Sonic, yeah his character and game series fits in with Nintendo's characters and game series much better than Snake and Metal Gear Solid. It's mostly the Sonic fan base that got me annoyed at his inclusion, especially with comments like "yes!! we get to beat up Nintendo characters with Sonic and prove he's superior!!" and "now add Tails and Shadow and this game will be the best!!" This made people lose focus on what the Smash Bros. series is supposed to be: "All your favourite Nintendo characters duking it out." I suppose that in general, the inclusion of third parties in Smash Bros. has just made the character requests really ridiculous and unreasonable. People wanting 4 Sonic characters in Smash Bros. is one of the more common ones (way to miss the point of the Smash Bros. series). And then there's people saying that Nintendo characters they don't like should be kicked out for 3rd party characters they want that are usually just as obscure.

I really think third party companies should make their own Smash Bros.-like games if they really want their characters in a Smash Bros.-like setting. They could even cross over with other companies like they did with Dreamworld TV Fighters. Just leave Smash Bros. as a Nintendo only game. Not only do third parties characters stick out like sore thumbs, make Smash Bros. seem impure, and ruin what the Smash Bros. series is supposed to be, but as Tangerine and Melonhead said, it just looks like an advertising opportunity. Especially since they're showing off their character through Nintendo's games and not their own.

...realistically though, I know that they likely won't make SSB4 Nintendo only, so at the very least I hope that they keep it to one character per third party company, and have it be a character that represents the company best. Even if I didn't like their inclusions, at least Snake and Sonic represented Konami and Sega really well (it's a shame that Konami isn't focusing on its other franchises as much as Metal Gear). I agree with Pac Man being the best representative for Bandai Namco, and not a character from the Tales series (especially since the casts completely change for each Tales game barring sequels. That, and Pac Man is the most iconic Bandai Namco character, even if he hasn't had any big games released lately). Even given the situation with Mega Man currently, I still think he's the most likely third party candidate (and he's probably the third party that I'm the most okay with, since he originated from the NES era and had a lot of games for the NES and SNES. That, and some people associate him with Nintendo to the point that they actually think Nintendo made him and not Capcom), especially given Nintendo's and Capcom's "we were waiting for the other to ask" situation in Brawl.