Anouleth Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 In closing, you don't have to like my design, my spriting, or me. Defensive, much? I don't think anyone dislikes your design or your spriting or you, they're just commenting that they don't think the mug fits Marth very well. So you don't need to pretend that this is a personal attack against you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teapot Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 It was a disclaimer, mate, because... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmKALLL Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 I like that Marth and don't really see the eyes or the ass as a problem. He feels different though, but creative liberties are creative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 responds to my post providing exactly 3 counterexamples out of hundreds of FE characters thanks for proving my point. (btw geitz's eyes are more or less about parallel to his shoulders, so make that 2 counterexamples) understand that this is a purely technical criticism and i have no problem with AK's design or style. the clearest indicator to me that marth's eyes are slanted is that they are not nearly parallel with his mouth. astohl and geitz don't have this problem. valter kind of does but he's pretty clearly smirking in his portrait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartwhisperer Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Meh, you all are so hard on her... I don't see sprites like that very often and, honestly speaking, even if it doesn't look like Marth I don't care. It would make the game fresher and let Marth giving a different impression to the player. Also Arch approves the idea so I guess it's okay like this... Also desperately wanting a resprited character of a fanmade remake to be exactly like the original, is a little fanboysm As for the other critiques, I don't see an awful problem with the eyes either. I don't think there are lots of spriters out there who could do a work like that, so I don't understand why everyone is complaining wanting that Marth to be PERFECT when it already is extremely well-designed, sprited, and looks like a badass for once. also his map sprite is a bad-ass... literally Well, peace & love, I like the sprite, I think lot of effort was put in making it. Maybe you don't like it, you want it different, you want it more like the original Marth or whatever. Different opinions. The only current opinion which can make the difference in this project is Arch's anyway, so. Have a nice day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnar mnar Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 It also sort of turned into an unintended shout-out to Krom being of his line... Thanks for spoiling. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Book of Ereshkigal Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 (edited) That's not a spoiler. At all. Iris and Akaneia are the same kingdom. Its also the excuse for developers to use masked Marth, instead of some other masked lord. Masked Ephraim, plz Edited November 21, 2012 by L95 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnar mnar Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Ah, my bad. So sorry. u_u Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Peachar Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 No one is hating on her, dear. :p I meant more hating on the interpretation rather than hating on her, eCutie. :b -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- I understand that the eye comment was a technical issue thing and wasn't a stylistic attack. I didn't mean to make it look like I was including you with the others. But the eyes aren't terribly slanted irregularly-- the eyes are at the tilt of the head. The exactly three examples I puush'd are mugs that have heads at a different angle than the body. Was showing that it is possible without neck problems to have the head turned (Valter is the exception though. He is THE absolute worst ever. I have no idea how his anatomy works...let alone be comfortable lol). Geitz's eyes might be close to parallel to the body, but the head isn't in the slightest...unless he has a very deformed jaw and a severe underbite. I could see that then. Either way, yeah. For the interpretation whatevers, it's ultimately Arch's choice or whatever. We just have to trust him with his decisions. He has a vision--he wants a revamped, re-imagined FE1, not a remake. He will not accept sprites he doesn't believe will fit in his direction, however well executed they may be. He will say what he feels should be adjusted interpretation-wise before he throws it into the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlegnomes Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 I think Valter's is supposed to look weird. He's deranged so I think the awkwardness of his portrait is supposed to covey how he's a bit off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch Posted November 21, 2012 Author Share Posted November 21, 2012 (edited) Oh wow. Things erupted while I was riding on the bus. I've been reading over the commentary, and I'm considering what approach to take. Let me just take a moment to respond to things. I wanted a different approach to Marth, a strong redesign to really bring home the point that this hack is different from the other iterations of FE1. If you aren't a fan of the direction taken, tough. I don't like being so blunt, but this is what I asked AK to do, and I feel she produced a wonderful piece of work. When I saw the finished product, I could hardly contain how excited I was, because it truly is a marvelous sprite. If there are technical issues, they shall be addressed. Thank you to all who took that approach and pointed things out, your comments certainly don't fall on deaf ears. Now, the resemblance to Chrom was actually an accident. However, given certain plot factors, I certainly don't mind the resemblance (I'm trying not to spoiler). Basically what I wanted was a bit of a more mature take on Marth. This is a man who helplessly fled as his kingdom was destroyed, believes that he is the only surviving member of his family (he doesn't know Elice still lives), and now bears the future of the world on his shoulders. In my mind, he's completely conscious of the reality of his situation, not just some protagonist going through the motions of being a generic protagonist; I feel that taking that sort of approach makes him infinitely more relate-able and fascinating as a character. That was the general idea behind the redesign: maturity. He may be a teenager in age, but emotionally he's a fully-grown man. Giving him non-anime eyes was a part of that. However, if that design choice takes away resemblance to the original character, it's something that should be addressed. I'm curious to hear what people of that opinion feel about this: Is this better? More resembling of Marth's appearance? It's still not exactly the "nice, inviting, warm" Marth from the retro games, but that's mostly an issue with my interpretation of the character as someone grounded in the real world, rather than a person designed to play the generic happy hero. Edited November 21, 2012 by Arch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constable Reggie Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 I personally think it looks really good now. For one the eye doesn't look as horizontal as the last version did. Although, did anyone else notice that his right eye seems to be a bit farther down than his left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Red Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 ... This is a new game, a new take. I don't see a point in it if you're going to stick to all the same things. Well, there is a point, but... not enough. I think that the value in this hack might be in its willingness to overthrow the conventions of remakes and stipulations about changing things too much, if that makes sense. In other words, if you're going to change it, don't half-ass it and stick to the original. Take risks and something good is bound to show up eventually. tl;dr I likey I don't actually like the portrait but I like the idea. A lot. Mad props Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shun One Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 The newer one looks more like Marth to me, if that's any help at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I like the new one better. Not sure if there's supposed to be a weird spot near the bottom of Marth's closest arm, or if that's just something rendering it weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teapot Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 ^ I'm in the middle of fixing the sleeve, so that probably shouldn't be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 ... This is a new game, a new take. I don't see a point in it if you're going to stick to all the same things. I don't see the point in a remake if you're going to change everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocolate Kitty Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I don't see the point in a remake if you're going to change everything. i don't see a point in a remake if you're going to change nothing, we might as well just play fe1/3/11 also everything is marth's personal clearly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teapot Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I don't see the point in a remake if you're going to change everything. Look, son, nobody's making you play the game if you don't agree with it. Go ahead and make your own if it bothers you so much. o 3o~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Book of Ereshkigal Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 (edited) If you ask me, his nearest lower eyelid is too... slanted? That's not exactly the right word, but the line feels too crisp. I think the lower eyleid starts too high. But there is something about it that feels off. Idunno. Like it more, otherwise, it's a great mug. :D Edited November 22, 2012 by L95 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Sage Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I have to say, I like the edited Marth sprite much better. i don't see a point in a remake if you're going to change nothing, we might as well just play fe1/3/11 Cool strawman bro Look, son, nobody's making you play the game if you don't agree with it. Go ahead and make your own if it bothers you so much. o 3o~ Oh excellent, the "if you don't like it, don't play it" defense. I haven't seen that one before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I personally think it looks really good now. For one the eye doesn't look as horizontal as the last version did. Although, did anyone else notice that his right eye seems to be a bit farther down than his left? that is exactly what i have been saying the entire time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocolate Kitty Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Cool strawman bro Oh excellent, the "if you don't like it, don't play it" defense. I haven't seen that one before. the argument started off as a strawman :U Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teapot Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 (edited) that is exactly what i have been saying the entire time And I've been saying that I'm working on it. Calm yo' tits. Oh excellent, the "if you don't like it, don't play it" defense. I haven't seen that one before. Reiteration occurs because being reasonable is clearly a trait y'all seem to be lacking in. If y'all honestly can't stand it, I strongly encourage you to contribute to the project and make something you do agree with. Edited November 22, 2012 by · j e a l o u s y · Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miacis Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 (edited) I'm personally disagreeing with Arch take on Marth actually... I mean, the games in which Marth appeared did insist a few times on Marth being quite immature, on the contrary. Elice even takes a few minutes of your unit's time in FE12 just to tell you that Marth is an "idealistic child who firmly clings on to his beliefs". "Just a weak, vulnerable child" whose heart bleeds with every single casuality... And that's AFTER he's already thought one war. It's not like I am against creative liberties, or writers deciding to take a different take on him, exploring a part of his character that was left untapped. But this is, I think, just taking the exact opposite of the character. That's like ... making Oswin into a Nino-ified uguu~ anime character. Sure, that's ... a change, and a "different take". But people are just going to keep telling you "This isn't Oswin" just like people have said a few times here that "This isn't Marth". I'd love to see a less anime, more serious Marth, but perhaps moderating a bit the somewhat extreme "grounded in the real world" thing? You can't really go and forget that Marth's idealistic nature is one of his most major traits. Forgetting about that is just calling your personal character Marth and inserting him into FE1's storyline, which is full of plenty of other characters still looking and acting surprisingly anime-ish compared to him. Maybe that's just me, but seeing him slowly grow into both refining his ideals and tallying them to the harsh world he lives in (without actually losing them) sounds as (if not more) interesting as being mature and down-to-earth right off the bat, and... staying that way for the rest of the game? It just really sounds like a writing dead-end to me. (On top of the aforementionned "unfaithfulness" to the character's backstory.) (I doubt that this little rant is going to make the project take a sudden about-face, as it's not like I'm really even a famous writer/hacker here, but I really felt like I had to try and explain that position which other people expressed before me. Especially considering how beautiful and interesting this project looks like. ) *** Okay. Plot rant over, now about the sprite, I really really like how detailed and refined Marth looks there, the clothing in particular is just great. The eyes DO look better now, too. If I may suggest something to differenciate him more from Krom, he does have surprisingly short hair on the side of his head... Marth always had some side bangs there, so maybe that would help? Or would that still make him "way too girly"? As for a more technical detail, the red cape fold which is closest to the right (our right) shoulder pad looks... somehow flat and "un-textured" compared to the rest of the portrait. The ouline even stops right there, so it's rather noticeable. Look, son, nobody's making you play the game if you don't agree with it. Go ahead and make your own if it bothers you so much. o 3o~ I don't want to sound rude, but... Shouldn't you guys be trying to have people playing the game and following the project, instead of asking them to go away at the first "I don't like this part, please consider changing it, here's why" ? (Or calling them "son" for that matter?) Edited November 22, 2012 by Miacis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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