FE: Awakening Hard Mode Tier List

[Shadow Mir]

The first Paralogue where you meet Anna (but not the one where you recruit her), you rescue 3 civies (I think that's Anna's? Could be different), to which you get a Seraph Robe, a Log and a Ladle.

That's an entirely different paralogue.

[grandjackal]

Right, thank you. Again, it's sort of my first run through, so I'm not 100% on memorizing chapters and stuff. I just know there's a paralogue where you get a Ladle.

EDIT: Price Check, by the way. Forging a Bronze Axe the same way is only 600, but you also have to account buying a Bronze Axe which is another 400 on top.

Edited March 10, 2013 by grandjackal

[bottlegnomes]

I'll agree on DK. The def is absurd.I didn't use Thraja because she pisses me off as a character, but Henry was my single most durable unit, ignoring avoid. Even then, the only ones above him were Chrom x Sumia and Lucina x Cynthia who had ridiculous avoid. Back to Henry, by like chapter 19 he had like 30 def (was my second unit to hit 20/15). That +7 HP and +5 def is just too nice to ignore, especially with the extra move.

As for Thraja, if you promote her right away, that's 32 HP, 13 mag, 14 spd, and 15 def, plus mounted move. Those aren't bad. Henry gets 36 HP, 16 mag, 11 speed, which is meh, and 18 def. Their pair up is great too. +2 mag, +3 def, and +1 res and move. I really can't see any downsides to this class. Sure their are things the could have to be more ridiculous, but those are dark magic (mainly for ruin and nosferatu), which doesn't matter too much in HM (especially with their def and HP), and staves, which I feel like would be asking ay too much (they'd be ridiculous).

I's also agree with Miriel. I like early joining mages, and she got dumped as soon as she was paired because her combat was below average and she got killed in like 2 hits.

[Florete]

That Def is more the characters than the class. Sorcerer in comparison to DK gets only 2 less HP and Def (and 2 more Res), but access to Nosferatu + Vengeance (lol Slow Burn).

[Shadow Mir]

That Def is more the characters than the class. Sorcerer in comparison to DK gets only 2 less HP and Def (and 2 more Res), but access to Nosferatu + Vengeance (lol Slow Burn).

Hmmm... Maybe it's just the way I see things, but I never really liked Vengeance - having to take a lot of damage for it to have any real effect sounds unappealing in my humble opinion.

At any rate, I agree the issue of the children would've indeed been a messy one without putting them in their own tier.

Edited March 10, 2013 by Levant Fortner

[Florete]

Take a hit -> activate Vengeance -> recover with Nosferatu. Probably more useful on Lunatic than Hard, but still a nice combo. Package it with Vantage on Morgan and watch her go to town (but, to be honest, she doesn't tend to need Nosferatu once she gets enough levels).

[bottlegnomes]

True, but +2 HP and def in addition to the move? They also get +1 speed. All that for -1 mag and -2 lolres. In HM dark magic never really seemed all that useful. Nosferatu is nice, but Thraja and Henry are already durable enough, once they promote. Miriel might appreciate it, but the rest are durable enough as is. Ruin might be good for Henry, what with his low speed and good skill, but a speedwing or some speed potions and a speed pair up should fix that well enough. Thraja looks fast enough as is, and she gets +2 skill, which is her weak point. All in all, it seems like they'd all like the extra move and higher stats over dark magic. I'm not saying DK is definitely the way to go, but it's not likr LM where it seems like you'd have to be crazy to go DK. They're close, but I'd give DK an edge.

Edited March 10, 2013 by bottlegnomes

[Florete]

I'm not trying to argue that Sorcerer is the better way to go, just that it is a competitive choice with its own advantages.

[bottlegnomes]

Fair enough. It just seemed like before everyone was like sorcerer >>>>>>>>> DK, which only seems true in lunatic from what I've heard.

[grandjackal]

Yeah, lack of Nosferatu is annoying, but I never really found a need for it since I just could support Tharja with someone defensive and it would be K. Also, I may have rushed her to 15 for Lifetaker. Say what you will about Nosferatu with Vengeance, with Lifetaker, you don't even care what damage you took. Just kill someone, and you get half your like's worth of health back.

Perhaps I should support her with Henry this time...Not like her kid will ever matter with anything.

EDIT: For the record, I had Lifebreaker on her by the same chapter that dude with Amaterasu shows up. Same with Morgan (thank you, Veteran).

Edited March 10, 2013 by grandjackal

[Shadow Mir]

Yeah, lack of Nosferatu is annoying, but I never really found a need for it since I just could support Tharja with someone defensive and it would be K. Also, I may have rushed her to 15 for Lifetaker. Say what you will about Nosferatu with Vengeance, with Lifetaker, you don't even care what damage you took. Just kill someone, and you get half your like's worth of health back.

Perhaps I should support her with Henry this time...Not like her kid will ever matter with anything.

EDIT: For the record, I had Lifebreaker on her by the same chapter that dude with Amaterasu shows up. Same with Morgan (thank you, Veteran).

It should be noted, Lifetaker only works on player phase.

[grandjackal]

It should be noted, Lifetaker only works on player phase.

I'm aware. I've had no issue using it. Suppose the issue is that if Dark Knight can survive the same enemy phase as Sorcerer, but Dark Knight can go deeper and be able to sustain themselves anyways, why not go Dark Knight other than Sorcerer sustains sooner at the cost of movement?

Really is a close argument though. Cause Sorcerer could just team up with like a pegasi or something if they want mobility (along with speed and extra magic).

[Lord Raven]

Also tharjas skill is really bad and nosferatu and sorcerer doesn't help that very much. The durability and mobility from dark knight is pretty good to say the least.

[Shadow Mir]

Also tharjas skill is really bad and nosferatu and sorcerer doesn't help that very much.

You took the words right out of my mouth...

Edited March 11, 2013 by Levant Fortner

[Blademaster!]

Dark Knight can survive the same enemy phase as Sorcerer

If they have Sol they can, but Laurent is probably the only unit who would be able to do that in this kind of run (I did that in my first run of the game[with grinding] paired him up with Cynthia, and then he just became unstoppable).

Also, should despoil be banned for this tier or no?

Edited March 11, 2013 by Blademaster!

[Armond]

Also, should despoil be banned for this tier or no?

For what it's worth, I vote no. I feel like the rules in this tier list are already fairly restrictive; it feels like we're trying to make a tier list about a certain way to play the game, as opposed to a tier list about playing the game in general.

Now, I understand that some of the restrictions exist because it'd be hell to rate units otherwise (just as it's already hell to tier the children due to their nonstandard classes and joining). I understand that when the restrictions say "we're assuming you never use an item from an event tile", they mean more "we shouldn't argue that unit x is A-tier if you get item y from an event tile in the first few chapters and D-tier otherwise", and that in practice, most playthroughs will use those items as a "win harder" button. Likewise, you can't predict what items Anna is going to have for sale, or how much any one person feels like grinding Donnel to 10/20/20, and again, these are mostly "win harder" issues, not "my Basilio is amazing because of this".

I also agree that there should be a line in the first post that rescue and pair-up/switch abuse is not ok. It doesn't feel intended at all, and I think (at least for now) the list would benefit from stating that it's disregarding those tactics.

However, I do think the list should recognize that things like Despoil can make the game easier in ways that aren't strictly combat related, and, where appropriate, note such accordingly (even if it's just to say "this brings you up to some vague location higher than this one").

On a similar note, I would like to propose - despite the potential headache - giving some units a rating as to where they might be if, when you get them, you grind them up to the approximate level of the rest of your team. Some units like Lucina don't really need the extra rating, but take, I don't know, Donnel: when I got him, one of the first things I did was play a challenge map so he matched the levels of the rest of my units. Since he was no longer lagging behind so horribly, he ended up getting a second seal pretty quickly and being, if not the best unit on my team, certainly more than pulling his own weight.

Was it worth the grind? Honestly, I don't think that's for us to decide. Each player will value their time differently. Some people want to finish the game quickly - that's fine. Some people will want to breeze through the game with exceptionally powerful units - that's harder for the list to accommodate, but I don't think it should be telling those players that Donnel is always terrible and a waste of time, period, end of.

Anyway, that's my two cents. I'm not exactly an established member here, so it's not up to me to decide what to do with the tier list; I'm just throwing these ideas out there for discussion.

[Lord Raven]

I dunno, I think the metric is fairly simple - more or less saying that "who can breeze through the game and make it easiest." A newbie won't be able to use donnel effectively, for instance, whereas a veteran wouldn't bother.

As for despoil, state your case and people will respond. I'm not against it, but it has a very low chance of happening so it is somewhat of a nonfactor. Most people with Despoil tend to lack the luck to use it often.

[eclipse]

I see Despoil as a nice little extra that isn't going to break the game in half. I think there's enough money in this game assuming you're not being wasteful with spending.

[bottlegnomes]

Clipsey pretty much hit it on the head as far as I'm concerned. IIRC, I had enough money to buy like 50 thunder tomes for the hell of it, along with half a dozen change seals and master seals, granted I was broke after that. But still, that's a lot of stuff, and this was after beating the game and obviously buying stuff throughout. Money's not much of an issue. Despoil is kind of like nihil in FE9. Doesn't do anything bad, might very occasionally do something nice, but more often than not, not doing anything of note. I say allow it, but it probably won't affect anyone much if at all.

Edited March 11, 2013 by bottlegnomes

[Sol Hiryu]

Despoil pretty much means burning a Second Seal on Vaike or Gregor, so there's a cost associated with that. Given that they'll only have around 10 to 15 Luck by the time you reclass them, which means you're only getting a small Bullion every 9 to 10 kills. It's a nice little bonus for reclassing to Brigand, but it's not something that's even remotely broken.

As for the whole Dark Knight vs Sorc thing, I'll only say that Sorcerers are better at combat, but Dark Knight has better utility in pair up bonuses (most useful being the +3 Def/+1 Mov with no support). Pretty much up to you on how you want to use it.

[Espinosa]

Henry can instantly reclass to Barbarian and have pretty good strength. He's the luckiest of the three gen 1 Barbarians (I doubt you'll make MU into one so not counting him).

[MercuryHg34]

I married my Nowi to Virion with excellent results. She is now able to OHKO pretty much everything at this point, and whatever she doesn't OHKO she doubles or Virion with his ridiculous skill finishes them off. This is at chapter 14 on hard mode, btw. So to comment on whoever said that Nowi just needs a good partner, I'd absolutely agree to that.

I also found Nowi can be pretty durable, and her growths seem really good on my end (consistently getting +5's and even a few +8's). Now the question remains: what are the better options for her to re-class to? I haven't maxed out her level yet (I'm assuming it caps at 30) so I don't know what classes she has available to her.

@Grandjackal: About Miriel, I have already said my piece about her a few pages back, as well as several others who agreed with me. I feel that she is quite deserving of best mage in the game (besides avatar of course), but it might be worth looking at some of the counter arguments that came up as well as they too were pretty insightful.

Edited March 11, 2013 by MercuryHg34

[OrangeCrush980]

Should Veteran be banned? It allows Avatar to get a huge level lead on everyone else and steamroll the game.

[Armond]

Should Veteran be banned? It allows Avatar to get a huge level lead on everyone else and steamroll the game.

What sane player would remove it, outside of a challenge run (which a tier list can't hope to accommodate)?

The Avatar has his/her own tier for a reason.

Now, if your question was more "should Veteran have been removed before release?", then my answer is yes, wholeheartedly.

Edited March 11, 2013 by Armond

[Darth_Lavos]

What sane player would remove it, outside of a challenge run (which a tier list can't hope to accommodate)?

The same sane players that made Seth-less tier lists for FE8 because he broke the game. I don't think that it matters though. He'd probably still be leading his own tier regardless.