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What would be the best approach to a nerf to these ever-so-ridiculous weapons? Would making them unable to double balance them in relation to bows? The approach IS has taken with low mt worked a little, but theyre still extremely useful and can still ORKO due to pairups in FE13 and massive str units like Palla and Avatar in FE12...

Edited by Peekayell
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Making them unable to double would be a good idea. Plus it would make sense. How can you throw the same weapon at someone twice? Does the enemy toss it back to you ?

Bows should have 2-3 range and longbows 2-4 range. Maybe even more.

Edited by Hawk King
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fe3 javelins were pretty shitty, i found myself never using them since it was impossible to double with them

it definately makes them worse, but to the point of uselessness

fe4 javelins were better, but still pretty bad.

i think nerfing them just makes magic even more broken than it already is

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Give them next to no MT and little hit (like the FE13 Miniature Lance).

Or have them break at range (if I were to throw a javelin, I doubt I'd want to trek across a battlefield to pick it up just to throw it again). This would also stop them from doubling too, I suppose.

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What would be the best approach to a nerf to these ever-so-ridiculous weapons? Would making them unable to double balance them in relation to bows? The approach IS has taken with low mt worked a little, but theyre still extremely useful and can still ORKO due to pairups in FE13 and massive str units like Palla and Avatar in FE12...

Bold: Actually, that was done in FE3, since weight subtracted from speed in that game, and javelins had 20 weight.

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Making them unable to double would be a good idea. Plus it would make sense. How can you throw the same weapon at someone twice? Does the enemy toss it back to you ?

Perhaps by having more than one with you. Javelins are usually lightly constructed so I'm guessing they break upon impact.

I'd give them a different, lowered damage formula for melee hits. Maybe Str/2 + Mt instead of Str + Mt.

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magic users kind of suck in most games though

it's really only a problem if magic users are mounted, but even that can be mitigated by giving them 1 less mov than paladins

Edited by dondon151
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all making handaxes and javelins unable to double would do is make magic an even more superior 1-2 range option, especially in a game like fe13 with mounted magic users

Magic users tend to have poor durability, so they can't take on a whole squad of units on the EP (which is the main reason hand axe/javelins are considered unbalanced)

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THe only durable magic users I can remember are in fe4 gen 2 and fe7/8 and Saleh/Pent/Canas[maybe] and fe10!Soren.

I'd argue none of these are particularly durable, and definitely not comparable to your better melee units. I mean, sure Saleh and Pent have higher defences than the squishy growth mages in their respective games (especially if they're not levelled up to 20/20) but their durabilty still poses an immediate problem if you decide to push them forward as you would a decently durable unit like Gerik or Lowen.

Not sure about the gen 2 kids, what do you think? Sety and Nanna with Lex/Arden as father have ~60% growths in defence, and Sety will have a good enough base, but a def-boosting tome like Falaflame isn't even in your hands.

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FE4 and FE5 Levin!Sety can pretty much avoid everything the game throws at them.

FE5 Sety to a less extreme extent, I guess, but he still has a ridiculous amount of durability.

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I think the low Mt Method worked out fine but what i'd change is that i'd make each one be expensive and have low uses (around 10)...

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in some games, javelins can be strong (FE4) or not strong at all (fe 11) and the nerved accuracy seemed already do well in balancing (unless your unit had str and spd.. the javelins are but game-broker weapons..

How can you throw the same weapon at someone twice? Does the enemy toss it back to you ?

magic,

look at how the RD units throws javelin twice...

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I think a string of changes would work best.

Make them unable to Double simply for practicality purposes.

In addition, balance classes by having movement speed and attack speed as seperate stats. Movement speed related to dodging, while attack speed works in relation to offensive doubling/being doubled.

For example, Minimize Sage def caps but keep Dark Mage def caps a bit higher, while reverse for Movement Speeds, and have identical attack speeds since tomes = tomes.

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