Irysa Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 (edited) At the first Hero Seal, Rutger has Seal competition only with Dieck I don't know about you, but for me, Dieck is, and has always been a short term early game unit, so even outside the fact that Rutger is needed to kill boss, Rutger is also superior because he is long term for me The person who have Hero Seal competition with Gonzo, which is acquired at chapter 11(alongside Gonzo) is Dieck and Fir. Fir obviously is still underlevelled while Dieck will promote now The next Seal is chapter 16, and this one goes to Fir Regarding Clarine x Rutger, 3 Panel Support Area is WAY more than plenty to apply it for combat. Clarine also has h4x evasion in case she need to get exposed to 1 - 2 combat As a bonus, Fir x Rutger support rank build up is hilarious I find Dieck pretty invaluable most of the time on my runs. Nice and beefy, tag teams well with Rutger, and he he's the only sword unit (aside from Noah I guess) that can use Durandal without a penalty due to his massive con. Rutger admittedly doesn't need it to kill Manaketes since he will crit like crazy anyway, but it's still pretty useful, and he's basically certified to cap hp str and skill. Also I don't really think 3 panel support is more than plenty considering how many ridiculously large and open maps FE6 has. Also because you need to actually be right next to each other to get the rank up. Building that support early on is a little risky as a result without walling her, and Clarine only gets decent AVD once she has some levels into her, which takes naturally longer as a healer. Maybe it's just preference but I find it a chore to have to keep her safe so much if I'm trying to build that support, whilst Fir and Dieck can stand where Rutger stands anytime, because anything he takes they can take too. You can deal with it but I think it's a bit overrated, and only comes up because Clarine has poor support options otherwise as a backliner. Dorothy, pfft, Klein pfft. Lance makes a bit more sense since they have equal movement, and she could use his Anima but she really doesn't want to be charging up front as a low level healer. Healers supports with GBA system are just nearly always kind of meh options I find. Fir x Rutger is slow to build I agree, but you have far more opportunites to just leave them next to each other as they have equal movement and no reason not to be near each other, whilst Clarine has other things to do and can't always be near him. Also this is totally on topic because I'm just sayin that Fir is a good swordmaster too, she is just underrated because Rutger is so good even though she tag teams with him way better than units like Clarine, who are supposed to be his "ideal" support according to most. Edited July 28, 2013 by Irysa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 In general, i would say that Rutger will not gain any support at all >_> Clarine just happen to be the best character of the bunch >_> Also 3 Panel is A LOT to work with. FE6 Map is pretty closed up unless it involves Fliers, or its FE6 COD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Even without supports, Rutger kicks ass in his own game. So what's the point of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irysa Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 (edited) Well if we're litearlly only discussing "who the best is" and not "ranking" SM's then okay, I apologise. I though it would be okay to start a discussion involving Fir's worth in comparison (I rate her higher than a lot of those other SM's on the top, but feel she's underrated because of how good Rutger is) since it's an SM topic but if not then w/e Edited July 28, 2013 by Irysa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Will Fir with supports beat out Rutger without them? I don't see discussion about the actual supports themselves, what they bring, how they make Fir better/worse than Rutger, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 the only reason why rutger is good at all in FE6 is because he comes early enough to kill bosses because after a certain point, you're either forced to carry him to the boss with a mounted unit or you just kill the bosses with mounted units and ignore rutger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irysa Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 (edited) Will Fir with supports beat out Rutger without them? I don't see discussion about the actual supports themselves, what they bring, how they make Fir better/worse than Rutger, etc. If you gave Fir crit supports and didn't give Rutger crit supports and had her crit supports lined up...then yes for all intents and purposes she'd beat him out for sake of crit. If we're talking ferrying Rutger and Roy to the boss to kill him then seize in a few turns then no, not really, because he'll have an advantage of general levels and stuff beforehand. I think its undeniable Rutger is better than Fir (for various reasons), I was trying to talk about how Fir is actually a pretty good SM, and works well with Rutger to both of their advantages (equal mov, both benefit from crit a lot more than previously mentioned Clarine support in this topic, anywhere you throw either of them is an ideal place or safe for the other one etc) If that isn't what this topic is meant to allow in terms of discussion relative powerlevels of SM's and their rankings across the series, and the only purpose was to propose who the best is and discuss that, then I messed up, sorry. Edited July 28, 2013 by Irysa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 that doesn't mean that they "work well" with each other; rather, that implies that one of them outclasses the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irysa Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 (edited) Which I completely agree on. Fir is mentioned because I, think she is an underrated SM, and I believe to be better than other SM's in contest here. I realise in retrospect I wasn't really clear on this and sort of just jumped into rambling about why Clarine x Rutger is worse than Fir x Rutger, so, sorry about that. What I meant by that was to say that Fir (unless you're just looking exclusively ferry to the boss, and quick kill seize, which is admittedly like at least 80% of FE6 maps if you play efficiently), by merit of having +30 crit, some good support options and ease of use/raising/lack of significant contest for promotion items is a good SM, better than many others (whilst I consider Rutger the best SM I have used), and I think having more good SM's in FE6 is just all round plus, making her more valuable than other SMs, in a discussion of SM tiers. Edited July 28, 2013 by Irysa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seo Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Hum... 'cause Sacred Stones was my very first Fire Emblem game, I'd say Joshua. But, I'd say him also because he have a personnality really... fun. Based on his luck at many times, and he is a little Iñigo by moments. And also, I was surprised that there was not Rutger in the options... Oo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousSpeed Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 I'm not fan of Swordmasters myself (I was always more so a fan of Assassins and Sages and Cavalry), but going by game- FE6- Fir for fire affinity, and I just like her character more than Rutgers. Of course, Rutger is probably the stronger, but meh. FE7- Guy, since I don't really have any other options. FE8- Joshua because he has higher strength and will cap his speed and skill anyway, in addition to having the offensive Wind affinity. FE9/10- I personally use Mia over Zihark, but really just for availability reasons. Lucia is also pretty good and RD, but Zihark (the other Earth affinity Swordmaster) has better availability. FE13- At base, Owain, counting reclass, Kjelle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carter Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 I really liked Marisa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1% critted Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 Rutger carries the team so hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 Haborym Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 OP includes Swordmasters from fe7/8/13, doesn't include Karel, who is like Guy (minus) the effort. Gonna go with Rutgers here, if only because his game on Hard mode demands his presence. He makes bosskilling quicker and easier, but I'd hardly say he's necessary, especially if you don't really care much about turns. The closest the game has to a necessary unit is Marcus, and even that's for a very short time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SB. Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 why is this in the debates section Voting for SHANAM because dat Silver Card Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Rutger for most useful Larcei for my personal favourite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Sage Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Hobyrim can roast all of them over an open fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seo Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Hey, the author of the topic. You must play to others FE, especially FE4. Just for Ayra. And it's a crime she is not on the poll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwarfishh Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Karel, purely for his supports with Dart. Dead. Dead. Dead. oh... thats me... cool. :D From a gameplay perspective, Joshua and Rutger, due to availability and sheer awesomeness. Rutgers crit gets REDONKULOUS with good supports and a killing edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 (edited) Lakche can murder anything even with a crappy father. Same with Skasahaha. Their only problem is their movement. Anything that crosses their path dies from 4 consecutive hits before the enemy can wonder what hit them. Edited November 17, 2013 by Rapier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 From a characterization POV, I've always loved Mia and Owain. Sometimes I joke Mia should have been the lord of FE9, haha. I like her determination. As for Owain, his over-the-top nature is hilarious. For gameplay, The only truly 'good swordmaster' I've ever found is Edward. I try training others (Joshua comes to mind) but they just can't accumulate enough Strength and/or Luck to be good. Speed's nice and all, but you can't dodge well enough without terrain or supports if you don't have Luck. Lyn, if she counts, is also pretty good. She's not really a 'true swordmaster,' so I won't count her. Overall though, I'll go with Edward. At least he has enough Strength... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicolas Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 why is this in the debates section Voting for SHANAM because dat Silver Card Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizenberg Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 (edited) rutger or a lex+ira lakche poll also needs more mareeta, trewd, and shanam or ira for that matter Edited December 2, 2013 by Aizenberg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Shanan is the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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