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So While I see many different pairing guides for the parent generation along with many different opinions, I almost never see any discussions on who the children should be paired with. Am I missing something? Do support ranks not matter between children or am I missing some information? 

 

Edit: my bad, did not mean to double post. I will look for a way to delete the second one

Edited by DisobeyedCargo
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So While I see many different pairing guides for the parent generation along with many different opinions, I almost never see any discussions on who the children should be paired with. Am I missing something? Do support ranks not matter between children or am I missing some information? 

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So While I see many different pairing guides for the parent generation along with many different opinions, I almost never see any discussions on who the children should be paired with. Am I missing something? Do support ranks not matter between children or am I missing some information? 

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Well, they only matter for pair up stat compatibility. So, the ending class of the units are the only thing that actually matters. There's also the oddball for Morgan, since Robin's pairing will likely be for both a compatible spouse in addition for Morgan's genes. Other than that, physical/physical and magical/magical class pairs will cover most bases. Some niches like Sniper/Magical also throw a wrench in cookie cutters, but the overall philosophy doesn't change.

An example of this could be someone like Lon'qu!Severa at Wyvern Lord. She technically doesn't care which Berserker she gets (as long as she gets one). Some berserkers offer better mods than others, but the actual ordering won't matter.

In terms of actual support ranks, this is also negligible because the bonuses from the dual system don't have much of an impact. An S rank gets you the second highest hit value bonus of 15, and DuSu+ increases it to 20. It's not exactly important to boost ranks between non-Spouses because it's usually the case the dual system bonuses don't matter.

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Okay that's good to know, I was preparing to take on Apo secret route now that I beat the normal route and wanted to know about the parings of the children themselves, since I am using them on my team

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Sorry but I though of another question:

what about for a mixed unit like a dread fighter Libra!Owain? His Str and Mag caps are one away from each other? Who should end up supporting him then? Would it be better to go for a magical pair or stay as a mixed for more variety in pair ups?

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I need some help fast because I honestly feel I am going to mess up Gerome. My current pairings in mind are-

Robin x Lon'Qu

Chrom x Sumia

Olivia x Frederick

Maribelle x Libra

Sully x Donnel

Cordelia x Vaike

Cherche x Virion

Panne x Gregor

Miriel x Ricken

Gaius x Tharja

Nowi x Kellam

I tried to make every kid pretty balanced and with perhaps some good skills but I keep seeing that Virion is a horrible dad. I've been told not to give Kellam to anyone because he's also a "bad dad" but Vaike and Gregor are always being used.  Can someone help me out with this? I'm marrying Lon'Qu no doubt though, so please if you have any advice keep that important detail in mind. 

 

Edited by Dangeki
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20 minutes ago, Dangeki said:

I need some help fast because I honestly feel I am going to mess up Gerome. My current pairings in mind are-

Robin x Lon'Qu

Chrom x Sumia

Olivia x Frederick

Maribelle x Libra

Sully x Donnel

Cordelia x Vaike

Cherche x Virion

Panne x Gregor

Miriel x Ricken

Gaius x Tharja

Nowi x Kellam

I tried to make every kid pretty balanced and with perhaps some good skills but I keep seeing that Virion is a horrible dad. I've been told not to give Kellam to anyone because he's also a "bad dad" but Vaike and Gregor are always being used.  Can someone help me out with this? I'm marrying Lon'Qu no doubt though, so please if you have any advice keep that important detail in mind. 

 

Virion in my opinion is not as bad a father as people say he is. I think he makes a really good father for Inigo but that's just my personal preference. For your pairings it honestly depends on what you want the children's final classes to be. For instance, a Kellam!Nah would make an excellent tanking Manakete, but if you wanted to go faster, you would probably be better switching for someone faster. Do you have any ideas for the children's final classes?

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4 minutes ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

Virion in my opinion is not as bad a father as people say he is. I think he makes a really good father for Inigo but that's just my personal preference. For your pairings it honestly depends on what you want the children's final classes to be. For instance, a Kellam!Nah would make an excellent tanking Manakete, but if you wanted to go faster, you would probably be better switching for someone faster. Do you have any ideas for the children's final classes?

No not really I was planning to just give them nice stats and reclass them according to what they excel on at each stat. A Tanky Nah seems pretty cool though.

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1 minute ago, Dangeki said:

No not really I was planning to just give them nice stats and reclass them according to what they excel on at each stat. A Tanky Nah seems pretty cool though.

Try to take into account each parents stat modifiers on the child, as this will affect how high a stat can go in a class. Don't be disheartened if someone says someone makes a bad parent for that child. In the end, it's your decision. For a reference, I'll illustrate my current pairings and child classes

MU and Laurent for a sage Morgan (botched this one cause I picked a bad asset/flaw)

Lonqu and Cordelia for a hero severa

panne and Gregor for a beserker yarne

 Virion and Olivia for a hero Inigo

chrom and Sumia for dark flier Lucina and Cynthia

 

donnel and sully for a hero Kjelle (and that amazing class selection)

vaike and Cherche for a wyvern lord Gerome

ricken and Miriel for a sage Laurent

libra Lissa for a dread fighter Owain

henry Marribel for a sage brady

 Kellam Nowi for a Manakete Nah

Gaius and Tharja for a sorcerer Noire

 

 

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10 minutes ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

Try to take into account each parents stat modifiers on the child, as this will affect how high a stat can go in a class. Don't be disheartened if someone says someone makes a bad parent for that child. In the end, it's your decision. For a reference, I'll illustrate my current pairings and child classes

MU and Laurent for a sage Morgan (botched this one cause I picked a bad asset/flaw)

Lonqu and Cordelia for a hero severa

panne and Gregor for a beserker yarne

 Virion and Olivia for a hero Inigo

chrom and Sumia for dark flier Lucina and Cynthia

 

donnel and sully for a hero Kjelle (and that amazing class selection)

vaike and Cherche for a wyvern lord Gerome

ricken and Miriel for a sage Laurent

libra Lissa for a dread fighter Owain

henry Marribel for a sage brady

 Kellam Nowi for a Manakete Nah

Gaius and Tharja for a sorcerer Noire

 

 

I see i'll keep this in mind, thank you! I feel I am overthinking this now i'll look into the stat modifiers when considering the final class.

Edited by Dangeki
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10 minutes ago, Dangeki said:

I see i'll keep this in mind, thank you! I feel I am overthinking this now i'll look into the stat modifiers when considering the final class.

That's good to know I could be of help! I myself am still new to this game so I'm still learning things. I believe that the parents own stat modifiers for themselves stay the same and the modifiers for the children change depending on who is fathering who. FE wiki is a good source on paternal ineritance for each children, and Serenesforest has a page that breaks down the stat caps for all characters in all classes and even who their parents are. I can find it for you if you want.

also one more thing  about your MU pairing, what is your asset and flaw combination? That will play a big difference in stats for MU and Morgan.

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5 hours ago, Dangeki said:

I need some help fast because I honestly feel I am going to mess up Gerome. My current pairings in mind are-

Robin x Lon'Qu

Chrom x Sumia

Olivia x Frederick

Maribelle x Libra

Sully x Donnel

Cordelia x Vaike

Cherche x Virion

Panne x Gregor

Miriel x Ricken

Gaius x Tharja

Nowi x Kellam

I tried to make every kid pretty balanced and with perhaps some good skills but I keep seeing that Virion is a horrible dad. I've been told not to give Kellam to anyone because he's also a "bad dad" but Vaike and Gregor are always being used.  Can someone help me out with this? I'm marrying Lon'Qu no doubt though, so please if you have any advice keep that important detail in mind. 

 

 

4 hours ago, Dangeki said:

No not really I was planning to just give them nice stats and reclass them according to what they excel on at each stat. A Tanky Nah seems pretty cool though.

The core question is: Are you looking to do the harder version of Apotheosis?

For literally everything that isn't Apo, you can do whatever you want, more or less. There are some front-runner strategies (e.g. "NosTank," running around as a Sorcerer with Nosferatu and Vengeance), but the content wasn't made to expect much optimization. Even Lunatic+ can be completed with just about anything; the only true "never do that" recommendations are never let Chrom marry the Maiden (there's literally no point), and never miss out on one of the children (again, no point). Everything else is a matter of taste.

For Apotheosis, however, you're working with a budget. If you optimize ruthlessly, you can easily clear Apo--you have a substantial margin of error. Each step you take away from that hypothetical "maximum optimization" point means cutting into that margin of error. As long as you don't go too far, there's no problem. Some steps are bigger than others, and Kellam as a father is one of the larger steps, which is why people recommend against it. The core issue is, tanking is one of the worst strategies for Apotheosis secret mode, from start to finish. You have to clear the first wave in just two turns, meaning you need to put out a ton of damage very, very quickly--that's exactly the opposite of the tanking strategy, which slows down play (you take less damage, but you also deal less damage). This is compounded by the fact that most "tanky" units have low Spd, so you probably can't double anything--cutting your damage output by more than half (each hit is smaller, AND you hit only half as much). The always-on skills of the enemies in Apo make this even worse, because Dragonskin automatically cuts damage in half, and Pavise+/Aegis+ may cut it in half again (meaning you only do 25% damage), then skills like Vantage+ and Counter mean you don't want to leave enemies partially damaged if you can avoid it.

It's not a game-ending fault to choose Kellam!Nah and make her a General (highest Def character in the game, IIRC). It's just that tanking in general (and thus the Defense stat) is considered a waste of time when you need to be putting out lots of damage, and when you (usually) want to fight most/all battles during the player phase, not the enemy phase. Similarly, because of the enormous extra damage potential offered by Galeforce, making sure every unit gets it that can get it is a top priority--and those units that can't tend to be relegated to secondary roles as a result.

How you choose to spend your "optimization budget" is up to you--just remember that you're making a choice to be less-than-fully optimized, and will thus need to compensate in other areas to ensure you can still succeed.

As for your other questions:
Virion is not a bad dad. He's not a great dad, but he's not bad. Other dads are better for various reasons, and I'll use the other dads you mentioned as examples (plus one more). Vaike is a good but highly specialized father. He's got excellent Str and positive Skl and Spd--three stats any physically-inclined child will want--while taking negatives in places that don't matter for physical offense (Mag/Res) and a minor Lck penalty (which is erased by the "children get +1 to all stats" bonus). If he has a daughter, he can pass down typically male-only skills (Axefaire is especially popular); if he has a son, he may give that son access to the fantastic Berserker class. As far as physically-focused fathers go, Vaike is tough to beat.

Lon'Qu is equal but opposite, more or less; where Vaike is all about hitting hard, Lon'qu is a Skl/Spd powerhouse (again, only taking penalties to defensive stats that "don't matter"), meaning his child(ren) may double most Apo enemies without any pair-up bonuses at all, and easily double the highest-Spd enemies in the game with support bonuses. The Myrmidon and Wyvern Rider lines pair together nicely, and have skills that can support most other classes, making LQ's child(ren) unusually flexible.

Gregor is a well-liked father for two reasons. First, his modifiers are competent for a physical dad--nothing to write home about, but reliable. Second, his class offerings are very good for any child except Inigo (who gets nothing): Hero, Bow Knight, Berserker, and Assassin are all great classes to take into Apo, and several good skills can be found in his set. Stahl is another well-liked father and for basically the same reasons; his modifiers are nearly identical to Gregor's (slightly worse--one more Def and one less Skl), but his class set is almost unbeatable, with Archer, Cavalier, and Myrmidon (offering excellent skills and working with strong strategies e.g. Sniper or Bow Knight). Like how Gregor and Stahl are similar, Lon'qu provides a good comparison for Virion: Virion is less focused, and thus not quite as good as Lon'qu. Virion provides Archer, which is a very strong class line, but the Mage line doesn't really do much for his child(ren), certainly less than the Thief or Myrmidon lines would. Stahl is a better choice than Virion if what you want is a good Archer (or skills from its line) but don't care about mods, while Lon'qu is a better choice than Virion if you care about mods but aren't particularly attached to classes.

You don't want generalist children--or, rather, that's a much-less-effective strategy. Augmenting strengths is better than mitigating weaknesses IF you can choose what those weaknesses are, for reasons I outlined above (need to hit hard and fast), and because if things genuinely do go wrong...you just reload and try again. It's better to have awful Defense and Res, but sky-high Str (or Mag, for a mage), than it is to have above-average stats in everything--because you can pick when you fight your battles and you can calculate things out so that you know you'll win without taking meaningful losses.

TL;DR:
General play = do whatever you want. Apo charop has a range, but is still about all-out offense. Tanking sucks in Apo, so tanky father+tanky child = double suck. Gregor (and Stahl) are great for classes. Lon'qu and Vaike are great for mods. Virion's mods < LQ's mods, Virion's classes < Stahl's classes, so Virion is a second-fiddle dad. Better to make characters with great strengths than no weaknesses.

Edited by amiabletemplar
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On 5/25/2017 at 4:03 PM, DisobeyedCargo said:

Sorry but I though of another question:

what about for a mixed unit like a dread fighter Libra!Owain? His Str and Mag caps are one away from each other? Who should end up supporting him then? Would it be better to go for a magical pair or stay as a mixed for more variety in pair ups?

Dread Fighter isn't that great of a class (not a bad one though). It's usually the case that mixed classes are inferior though. A Sage will do more magic damage; a Berserker does more physical damage. That's why those two classes are the most popular end classes for people who have them. There's certainly other classes that are good, but typically offer something more than just damage (Wyvern Lord, Valk, and Sniper just to name a few). Mixed classes don't mind either pair up, and they don't mind who they pair with either. Jack of all trades will perform weaker to the polarized class though.

And yeah, def stacking is really bad in Apo. You sink in all these resources, but it doesn't really matter. Apo is a straight damage + utility map. At 85 HP, you can take a hit from most things anyway. At 1 HP, you can KO most things anyway with vengeance. Def's useful for certain setups, which can actually be a high amount (depending on the enemy). But chances are, that's unimportant to you.

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22 minutes ago, Vascela said:

Dread Fighter isn't that great of a class (not a bad one though). It's usually the case that mixed classes are inferior though. A Sage will do more magic damage; a Berserker does more physical damage. That's why those two classes are the most popular end classes for people who have them. There's certainly other classes that are good, but typically offer something more than just damage (Wyvern Lord, Valk, and Sniper just to name a few). Mixed classes don't mind either pair up, and they don't mind who they pair with either. Jack of all trades will perform weaker to the polarized class though.

And yeah, def stacking is really bad in Apo. You sink in all these resources, but it doesn't really matter. Apo is a straight damage + utility map. At 85 HP, you can take a hit from most things anyway. At 1 HP, you can KO most things anyway with vengeance. Def's useful for certain setups, which can actually be a high amount (depending on the enemy). But chances are, that's unimportant to you.

Okay I will definitely keep that in mind. I have beaten Apo normal route pretty easily, and while I did use a Kellam!Nah, she tended to get left behind the galeforce girls and boys, namely Severa, Kjelle, Inigo, Owain, Brady, and Noire, so there is definitely a drawback that I can see. I still think I have not dug too deep into the margin of error for beating Apo secret route aside from slightly botching my Morgan and I should be able to handle it if I play carefully, I was actually even able to unlock secret route my first time going in, so I must be doing something right.

Edited by DisobeyedCargo
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Mods account for a pitiful amount of damage (but it can be relevant). You have so many sources of damage (procs, dual strikes, crits, braves, etc.), that dealing an extra single digit damage bonus per swing isn't exactly a deal breaker. It sucks, but the multipliers from enemy's defenses play in your favor if you think about it. The only enemies that you actually care about dealing damage to are the ones with dragonskin combined with pavgis+ that against you. On one side of the coin, you only deal 1/4 of damage. On the other side, you have the revelations that it takes 4x as many points into might that change your damage +1, so it's not the end of the world. You won't fail because you def stacked, you just don't do as much damage as a team that stacked might.

That being said, there are some incredibly powerful Mag benchmarks that puts certain strats on the table. Kellam!Nah!Morgan isn't exactly a prime candidate for them.

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7 minutes ago, Vascela said:

Mods account for a pitiful amount of damage (but it can be relevant). You have so many sources of damage (procs, dual strikes, crits, braves, etc.), that dealing an extra single digit damage bonus per swing isn't exactly a deal breaker. It sucks, but the multipliers from enemy's defenses play in your favor if you think about it. The only enemies that you actually care about dealing damage to are the ones with dragonskin combined with pavgis+ that against you. On one side of the coin, you only deal 1/4 of damage. On the other side, you have the revelations that it takes 4x as many points into might that change your damage +1, so it's not the end of the world. You won't fail because you def stacked, you just don't do as much damage as a team that stacked might.

That being said, there are some incredibly powerful Mag benchmarks that puts certain strats on the table. Kellam!Nah!Morgan isn't exactly a prime candidate for them.

I am aware of this, my Morgan was a Ricken!Laurent!Morgan. My mistake came in choosing an Asset Skill Flaw HP, as I did not realize that this would give me an overall negative magic modifier, I would have fixed this but I was already 100 plus hours into my file before I saw this so I said screw it and rolled with it  (they were married before I realized)

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3 hours ago, Not_The_NSA said:

If you want a good Gerome, have Cherche marry Henry or Stahl and enjoy the benefits of Hex/Anathema Berserker or Bowfaire Bow Knight, respectively. Kellam is bad in pairings because his class set of Armor Knight/Thief/Priest is useless and his modifiers are poor.

Modifiers are fairly minuscule in importance, save for tedious set-ups in Apotheosis or certain combos like Wyvern Lord Severa wanting speed from Lon'qu or Virion over Frederick's +Str/Skl and -Spd mods. For example, Vaike!Gerome has +6 strength, but it's useless because his class set is bad, which limits his combat. No Luna/Astra or Vengeance to pump damage up and Cherche doesn't have Galeforce to pass. Class inheritance is more important because it gives them more options to work with. And in-game wise, growths, beginning class and even reclass, fast skill inheritance, and availability are all that matters.

Regarding your set-up, Lon'qu!Severa is a better Wyvern Lord. Gregor doesn't pass Hit Rate +20 or Hex/Anathema to Yarne, who already has Berserker, which is why Panne x Gregor is an outdated pairing from 2013, along with Panne x Gaius. Virion doesn't pass Luna or Vengeance to Inigo, which means Inigo might miss a kill in-game or Apotheosis, which means no Galeforce proc. Not sure why Vaike married Cherche while best daddy Stahl is waiting on the bench with his class set. Kellam!Nah is bad, but also a product of GameFAQ users tricking people that you need a +6 defense modifier dragon to finish Awakening. If you want a good Nah who can do the "tanky dragon" in-game while being useful in Apotheosis, Vaike/Henry/Gregor/Stahl!Nah are all a delight. Gaius!Noire is a better Dark Flier or you can make her a Sniper so she can stack damage with Bowfaire on top of Luna/Astra/Galeforce.

This was pointed out, but mixed units are pretty meh, save for like a Dark Flier x Grandmaster set-up with say Chrom!Cynthia and Male Robin or Morgan.

Also, Stahl is the best dad in Awakening besides Avatar and you didn't pair him with someone? Kids love his class set!

I didn't ignore stalh, I heavily considered him for a lot of the children. But I will definitely make sure to keep these in mind the next time I create a new file.

i am aware of how important clas selection is, I guess I got too into those stat modifiers, I will definitly redo my pairings on my next file. For now I will just role with what I have made and see what happenes.

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So I am about to start another run through fire emblem awakening, and I am planning my pairings. My problem is, I have no idea what the crap to do with Lucina. 

I am currently planning on my Unit. Marrying Chrom, but that's it. Do I go with Magic or Strength? Does she perform better in either role? Will this screw up Morgan. Please help me, I'm still trying to master this game. I haven't started the file Yet so I can still choose and asset/flaw combo. 

 

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4 hours ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

So I am about to start another run through fire emblem awakening, and I am planning my pairings. My problem is, I have no idea what the crap to do with Lucina. 

I am currently planning on my Unit. Marrying Chrom, but that's it. Do I go with Magic or Strength? Does she perform better in either role? Will this screw up Morgan. Please help me, I'm still trying to master this game. I haven't started the file Yet so I can still choose and asset/flaw combo. 

 

Given that I use this pairing all the time I can help you here.

 

Lucina is going to be literally your second Morgan; she'll have access to all gender permitting classes as well as having the tactician line to work with and the more reliable proc, Ignus.  I have a Lucina that is a sorcerer running Limitbreaker/Galeforce/Tomefaire/Ignus/Armsthrift (which I did with a +def/-lck Robin that wasn't for Apo) and will likely use the same set up for my +mag/-str Robin (which is for Apo).  So Lucina will gain flexibility to do whatever you need her to like Morgan.

 

Morgan will also be fine as well, he'll get Rightful King which he can use to proc skills more frequently or just ignore it and run him how you want to.

 

ETA:

Chrom x Robin is a great pairing for L+ as well, if you do that.

Edited by TheSilentChloey
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10 minutes ago, TheSilentChloey said:

Given that I use this pairing all the time I can help you here.

 

Lucina is going to be literally your second Morgan; she'll have access to all gender permitting classes as well as having the tactician line to work with and the more reliable proc, Ignus.  I have a Lucina that is a sorcerer running Limitbreaker/Galeforce/Tomefaire/Ignus/Armsthrift (which I did with a +def/-lck Robin that wasn't for Apo) and will likely use the same set up for my +mag/-str Robin (which is for Apo).  So Lucina will gain flexibility to do whatever you need her to like Morgan.

 

Morgan will also be fine as well, he'll get Rightful King which he can use to proc skills more frequently or just ignore it and run him how you want to.

 

ETA:

Chrom x Robin is a great pairing for L+ as well, if you do that.

I was probably going to go for +mag -Str if I went the magical route, and I am making anew team for Apo so I will go with a magical lucina, probably paired with Laurent or Brady.

another question. Ricken or Gregor Laurent. Ricken give some him a high Mag, but the argument for Gregor is that he gives armsthrift. 

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So I have started a new file and am reworking my pairings from last time, only problem is, I am kinda lost as to what to do now.

my current plans are:

+Mag -Str MUxChrom for either sage/Sorc Lucina and Morgan

StalhxCordelia for a hero Severa

GregorxMiriel Laurent (for armsthrift) for a Sorcerer Laurent

DonnelxSully for a hero Kjelle

HenryxSumia for a dark flier/Sorc Cynthia

anndd... this is where I'm stuck. I have ideas for the other kids, I just am not really sure which one should I should pick

for Inigo my main though was Virion

for Brady, I was thinking Ricken 

For Nah, I considered Kellam again, But then I would lose out on galeforce, speed, and a good skill pool

For Noire, I have literally no idea, I do want to make her a sorcerer/sage though

For Gerome: Possibly Vaike, but Vaike make a good parent for a beserker from what I hear

For Yarne, again, no idea at all. 

For owain, I also don't know?

any suggestions on some pairing ideas would really help. 

 

 

Edited by DisobeyedCargo
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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello I restarted my save since I wanted two kids on my Robin and I made these pairings. (I listed which kids get Galeforce)

Robin x Tharja = Morgan/Norie [Galeforce from Robin]
Libra x Lissa = Owain [Galeforce from Lissa]
Frederick x Olivia = Inigo [Galeforce from Olivia]
Henry x Mirabelle = Brady [Galeforce from Mirabelle]
Gaius x Sully = Kjelle [Galeforce from Gaius]
Chrom x Sumia = Lucina/Cynthia [Galeforce from Sumia]
Kellam x Cordelia = Severa [Galeforce from Cordelia]
Stahl x Cherche = Gerome 
Ricken x Panne = Yarne
Lon'Qu x Miriel = Laurent
Donnel x Nah = Nah [Galeforce from Donnel]

Considering that Robin/Gaius/Donnel pass down Galeforce through male classes switching to female classes and that Lissa/Olivia/Mirabelle/Sumia/Cordelia can just pass it down what skills should I pass down to all of the children? Mainly the skills that a kid of a different gender can't get which would be best? 

(By the way I know some of these may seem weird but I was more focused on class coverage over stats)

Edited by Dangeki
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