Admiral "Bull" Halsey Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 (edited) Well excuse my ignorance, I was thinking of Armsthrift + Aversa's Night. <_< Edited July 10, 2017 by General MacArthur Edit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vascela Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 There's no realistic way to get Aversa's Night; Nosferatu can be purchased as soon as you get the wireless menu (which, Robin would seal to dark mage around this time). Armsthrift seems nice, but the game hands you enough funds to handle the main game. And when your talking post game, funds are ignored since the convoy is endless (you can bring as many items as needed). Going into Merc at all isn't something that makes your life easier either, but that's just another issue altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maninbluejumpsuit Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 On 7/5/2017 at 2:46 AM, Not_The_NSA said: Gaius should pass Sol to Noire for easy grinding or being a solid skill in-game. Counter is a near-useless skill for the player. You don't want your units being hit by the enemy and deflecting adjacent damage that could accumulate and cause a unit's death, unless you like resetting. Would rally strength ever be worth considering over sol to pass down to Noire? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeno Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 Please help me improve my pairings, I just decided these supports without thinking alot, so some of them are pretty bad. Fe!MU (+skl -mag, gonna make this +spd -luk on my next save file) x Chrom Miriel x Henry Sully x Donnel Lissa x Ricken Cordelia x Vaike Sumia x Gaius Panne x Lon'qu Cherche x Stahl Nowi x Kellam Maribelle x Libra Olivia x Gregor Tharja x Virion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, Xeno said: Please help me improve my pairings, I just decided these supports without thinking alot, so some of them are pretty bad. Fe!MU (+skl -mag, gonna make this +spd -luk on my next save file) x Chrom Miriel x Henry Sully x Donnel Lissa x Ricken Cordelia x Vaike Sumia x Gaius Panne x Lon'qu Cherche x Stahl Nowi x Kellam Maribelle x Libra Olivia x Gregor Tharja x Virion Fe!MU x Chrom Always good Miriel x Henry Good Sully x Donnel Pretty good Lissa x Ricken Perfect Cordelia x Vaike Could be better (Stahl) Sumia x Gaius Good enough Panne x Lon'qu Good Cherche x Stahl Good but Stahl could be used better (Frederick or Vaike are good alternatives) Nowi x Kellam Decent Maribelle x Libra Pretty good Olivia x Gregor Decent Tharja x Virion Virion's not a good dad (Gaius is best father for Noire) Edited July 24, 2017 by Ronnie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeno Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 9 hours ago, Ronnie said: Fe!MU x Chrom Always good Miriel x Henry Good Sully x Donnel Pretty good Lissa x Ricken Perfect Cordelia x Vaike Could be better (Stahl) Sumia x Gaius Good enough Panne x Lon'qu Good Cherche x Stahl Good but Stahl could be used better (Frederick or Vaike are good alternatives) Nowi x Kellam Decent Maribelle x Libra Pretty good Olivia x Gregor Decent Tharja x Virion Virion's not a good dad (Gaius is best father for Noire) Thanks for the help, I've used your advise and took some liberties with some of the changes. These are the changes I made: Fe!MU x Laurent Sumia x Chrom Cordelia x Stahl Panne x Gregor (assassin Yarne is my plan) Cherche x Frederick Nowi x Vaike Olivia x Lon'qu (for a fast swordmaster Inigo) Tharja x Gaius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gramork Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 So Im pretty new to Fire Emblem as a whole though Ive sunk quite a few number of hours into this game. Im about to start another file where I want to tackle Apotheosis without the use of brave weapons if I can avoid it,  I wanted some advice on my pairings but should probably mention a couple details to preface this. 1. Some of the pairings I selected aren't the absolute best ever but I like to use pairings where the resulting children are effective but also where I enjoy the dynamic between the parents and between the parent and child (even if most are generic vis-a-vis the father) 2. I know he's effective as a parent but goddamn I hate Ricken and would love for him not to be used if I can avoid it. Anyway here are my pairings: Chrom x Sumia MaMU x Lucina (Probably +Speed/-Defense for Avatar) Librax Lissa Virionx Olivia Ricken x Maribelle Vaike x Sully Gregor x Cordelia Henry x Cherche Stahl x Panne Lon'qu x Miriel Gaius x Tharja Donnel x Nowi I should add that I know Donnel makes Kjelle amazing but its literally the only pairing ice ever done for her and I'd like to do something different. Anyway Thoughts?    Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSilentChloey Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Any tips for a main game/apo Vaike!Nah? I'm thinking that she'll be a hard support for Virion!Inigo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charmedx3 Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 Is it really important the children pairings for an aphoteosis file? Like magical x magical or Archer and physical x physical? I was thinking Donnelly!Kjelle x Virion!Brady but I can switch her with Fred! Inigo and give Brady to Sumia! Lucina, the others I think are fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vascela Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 Magical/Magical, Physical/Physical, Sniper/Magical are going to be 3 cookie cutter class pairs. That doesn't mean you can't get other pair types to work, it's just that those 3 capitalize on each other. There are exceptions like Bride being a physical class that gives magic pair up or some classes like Hero giving neutral pair ups. There's obviously more to synergy than pair up stats, but it's something to keep in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiScribble Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 (edited) Finally ready for Apotheosis! My team is shown below and I'd really appreciate some feedback. If you can't tell, I spent a lot of (too much) time on this, so please only constructive criticism. I know this is long, so feel free to only give feedback on specific parts if you want to. Spoiler The Team + Magic/- Luck Avatar Chrom Libra Olivia Sumia  Eirika (DLC) Palla (DLC)  All 13 Children Spoiler The Partners Leads are written first and support second.  Avatar/Owain  Brady/Noire  Chrom/Sumia  Inigo/Kjelle  Laurent/Cynthia  Lucina/Morgan  Nah/Gerome  Olivia/Libra  Severa/Yarne Spoiler The Parents Stats in parentheses are after Pair-Up bonuses. A second set of parentheses is used to show increases from weapons and -faire skills.  Avatar-  It's the Avatar…do I need to explain this?  Class: Dark Flier  Galeforce Ignis Lifetaker Limit Breaker Tomefaire  Str: 45 (48) Mag: 55 (64) (69) Skl: 51 (58) Spd: 54 (57) Luk: 52 (55) Def: 42 (45) Res: 53 (60)  Chrom-  This one is also pretty obvious.  Class: Great Lord  Aggressor Dual Strike+ Limit Breaker Luna Rightful King  Str: 55 (63) Mag: 40 (43) Skl: 51 (54) Spd: 52 (55) Luk: 56 (59 Def: 51 (59) Res: 49 (52)  Olivia-  Stats don't matter for Olivia…and she's a Dancer…that's it.  Class: Dancer  Astra Galeforce Limit Breaker Special Dance Vantage  Libra-  Basically Olivia's Pair-Up bot. Dark Knight was chosen for the defense, resistance and movement bonuses. He pulls it off surprisingly well. Since I didn't do Olivia's stats there's not really much of a reason to do Libra's.  Class: Dark Knight  Lifetaker Limit Breaker Renewal Tomefaire Vengeance  Sumia-  Weird to have Sumia of all people in a physical class, but she's Chrom's support, so…ya know. Also Great Knight instead of General for the movement bonus.  Class: Great Knight  Dual Guard+ Lancefaire Lifetaker Limit Breaker Luna  Str: 58 (61) (66) Mag: 40 (43) Skl: 53 (56) Spd: 48 (57) Luk: 55 (64) Def: 58 (61) Res: 46 (49) Spoiler The DLC We should all know what these people are for. Movement +1 for 9 movement Falcon Knight with rescue. Rally Skill and Rally Luck aren't really worth it IMO. Stats don't matter here, just increasing other people's  Eirika-  Class: Falcon Knight  Movement +1 Rally Heart Rally Magic Rally Resistance Rally Speed  Palla-  Class: Falcon Knight  Movement +1 Rally Defense Rally Movement Rally Spectrum Rally Strength Spoiler The Children Stats in parentheses are after Pair-Up bonuses. A second set of parentheses is used to show increases from weapons and -faire skills.  Henry!Brady-  Super flexible in terms of class, great skills, good mods…a definite force to be reckoned with.  Class: Sorcerer  Aggressor Gameforce Limit Breaker Luna Tomefaire  Str: 39 (42) Mag: 58 (65) (70) Skl: 52 (55) Spd: 52 (59) Luk: 57 (64) Def: 50 (53) Res: 56 (63)  Chrom!Cynthia-  Cynthia gets to be even faster than normal here, and the Paladin access is highly appreciated. Pretty much what she needed.  Cynthia-  Class: Bride  Dual Guard+ Galeforce Lancefaire Limit Breaker Luna  Str: 50 (53) (58) Mag: 50 (58) Skl: 56 (59) Spd: 57 (60) Luk: 57 (60) Def: 49 (56) Res: 51 (59)  Vaike!Gerome-  *Aggressively Sighs* I don't personally like this paring, but from an objective standpoint it makes a great berserker support.  Class: Berserker  Aggressor All Stats+2 Axefaire Dual Support+ Limit Breaker  Str: 69 (76) Mag: 41 (48) Skl: 48 (51) Spd: 57 (60) Luk: 58 (61) Def: 49 (56) Res: 39 (46)  Libra!Inigo-  Very balanced and versatile unit, has good strength and magic, as well as not being particularly weak anywhere. Also, Libra had to go somewhere, and screwing Inigo is very hard.  Inigo-  Class: Dread Fighter  Galeforce Limit Breaker Vantage Vengeance Wrath  Str: 53 (60) Mag: 50 (53) Skl: 53 (60) Spd: 53 (60) Luk: 55 (58) Def: 49 (56) Res: 54 (57)  Donnel!Kjelle-  Gives Kjelle what she needs to complete a support set (Galeforce), and Aptitude is always fun.  Class: Paladin  Dual Guard+ Galeforce Lancefaire Limit Breaker Luna  Str: 53 (61) Mag: 39 (45) Skl: 52 (55) Spd: 52 (58) Luk: 59 (62) Def: 53 (56) Res: 52 (60)  Gregor!Laurent-  The armsthrift Sorcerer of the group. A Laurent that can be a lead.  Class: Sorcerer  Armsthrift Limit Breaker Sol Tomefaire Vantage  Str: 41 (44) Mag: 57 (64) (69) Skl: 52 (55) Spd: 52 (59) Luk: 55 (62) Def: 51 (54) Res: 53 (60)  Sumia!Lucina-  Not my favorite paring, but it fits the best. Brady really like to have Henry as a father, but Cynthia needs him if she isn't Chrom's daughter. So magic Lucina, here I come.  Class: Dark Flier  Dual Strike+ Galeforce Limit Breaker Luna Tomefaire  Str: 46 (49) Mag: 53 (60) (65) Skl: 55 (58) Spd: 57 (60) Luk: 57 (60) Def: 40 (48) Res: 52 (58)  Owain!Morgan-  Very magic oriented, but with surprisingly good strength. A great option for a mixed support.  Class: Dark Knight  Dual Guard+ Galeforce Ignis Limit Breaker Tomefaire  Str: 49 (52) Mag: 56 (64) (69) Skl: 50 (53) Spd: 54 (62) Luk: 56 (59) Def: 48 (51) Res: 57 (64)  Frederick!Nah-  Unimpressive at first glance, but she has ridiculous stats after you factor in both Pair-Up bonuses and Dragonstone+. Her strength and defense are especially terrifying.  Class: Manakete  Aegis Dual Guard+ Limit Breaker Luna Pavise  Str: 54 (64) (75) Mag: 45 (48) (54) Skl: 47 (50) (55) Spd: 42 (50) (54) Luk: 57 (60) Def: 56 (59) (72) Res: 53 (56) (65)  Gaius!Noire-  Has almost everything she could need. The only other thing that she would've liked is Armsthrift, but she's still spectacular without it.  Class: Bride  Bowfaire Dual Guard+ Galeforce Limit Breaker Luna  Str: 52 (55) Mag: 52 (60) (65) Skl: 54 (57) Spd: 56 (59) Luk: 51 (54) Def: 52 (59) Res: 51 (59)  Ricken!Owain-  Semi-arguably, this is probably the best magic Owain.  Class: Sage  Aggressor Dual Guard+ Galeforce Luna Tomefaire  Str: 38 (41) Mag: 61 (69) (74) Skl: 53 (56) Spd: 53 (61) Luk: 59 (62) Def: 40 (43) Res: 52 (59)  Lon'qu!Severa-  Amazing skill and speed, literally made to be a dodge tank. Anna killer!  Class: Assassin  Avoid +10 Galeforce Lancebreaker Limit Breaker Swordbreaker Vengeance  Str: 52 (59) Mag: 40 (43) Skl: 64 (71) Spd: 62 (71) Luk: 55 (58) Def: 40 (43) Res: 38 (41)  Stahl!Yarne-  Great mods, newly acquired access to Luna and DG+, hell, even some offensive skill are there if you want them. Good for whatever you wanna make him (as long as it's physical).  Class: Assassin  Dual Guard+ Limit Breaker Luna Resistance +10 Swordfaire  Str: 55 (62) (67) Mag: 39 (42) Skl: 62 (69) Spd: 60 (69) Luk: 53 (56) Def: 45 (48) Res: 49 (52)  Edited July 29, 2017 by KiwiScribble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vascela Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 I'll try to say things specific to your team, but there's a few "in general" suggestions as well. For starters, you should consider using your deployment slots differently. You have a pair up unit for Olivia, and you don't have any rescue bots. More often than not, a bot who only uses a rescue gets more mileage than just another combat unit/pair. He gives Olivia +1 Mov, but a rescue bot can give like +30 Mov. Your only other bots (rally), Skl/Luk--in particular Skl--are extremely useful. Not only do they boost hit rate (although you do have LB, which makes hit less of an issue), Skl also boosts dual strike percentage. Rally skill applies to the back, so that's 8 Skl you're missing, which can be important for hitting 100%. In class selection, there's a few Sorcs and hybrid classes. Sage is almost always better than Sorc. The only reason you would ever take a Sorc is if you had a dedicated crit build, which I didn't see. Hyrbid classes are versatile, but they just don't compete with a specialized class like Sage or Wyvern Lord. I also see some Assassins sprinkled into the mix, but they aren't a go-to class. They suffer from having too much Spd that doesn't matter. Having more Spd doesn't make you a better unit. There's no difference in doubling between someone with 75 Spd and 88 Spd. It looks like the 88 is better because it's higher, but it doesn't actually help. That's why you see a lot of discussion around high Atk/low Spd Wyvern Lord, but still getting 75 Spd (through bonuses). That unit will be much more relevant than a low Atk/high Spd class getting 75 Spd. I also saw a Manakete in there, but that's not going to work well. "Tanking" doesn't really exist in Apo. You want full damage on all combat units. That usually limits all weapon discussion to only braves, but there are some exceptions like the long bow. The dragonstone doesn't bring enough utility (like 3 range that can proc/dual strike) to skip out on brave effect. You have no Snipers, which is somewhat surprising. Speaking of "tanking" there are some skills like dual guard+ which are pretty bad. "When is dual guard+ helpful?" Only when it procs and you would have died (had it not). If dual guard never procs, then it didn't help you. If it did proc--but you didn't need it--, then it didn't help you. If it did proc--and you needed it--, then you made a really bad play. You banked on getting a dual guard, which isn't a good idea. Armsthrift is bad because you have an unlimited convoy. Crit skills are bad without a dedicated crit build. You'll get more mileage out of proc stacking damage than you do single proc. Self healing through Nos/Aversa's/Sol is bad because you forgo braves/an actual damage proc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiScribble Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 (edited) 13 hours ago, Vascela said: I'll try to say things specific to your team, but there's a few "in general" suggestions as well. For starters, you should consider using your deployment slots differently. You have a pair up unit for Olivia, and you don't have any rescue bots. More often than not, a bot who only uses a rescue gets more mileage than just another combat unit/pair. He gives Olivia +1 Mov, but a rescue bot can give like +30 Mov. Your only other bots (rally), Skl/Luk--in particular Skl--are extremely useful. Not only do they boost hit rate (although you do have LB, which makes hit less of an issue), Skl also boosts dual strike percentage. Rally skill applies to the back, so that's 8 Skl you're missing, which can be important for hitting 100%. In class selection, there's a few Sorcs and hybrid classes. Sage is almost always better than Sorc. The only reason you would ever take a Sorc is if you had a dedicated crit build, which I didn't see. Hyrbid classes are versatile, but they just don't compete with a specialized class like Sage or Wyvern Lord. I also see some Assassins sprinkled into the mix, but they aren't a go-to class. They suffer from having too much Spd that doesn't matter. Having more Spd doesn't make you a better unit. There's no difference in doubling between someone with 75 Spd and 88 Spd. It looks like the 88 is better because it's higher, but it doesn't actually help. That's why you see a lot of discussion around high Atk/low Spd Wyvern Lord, but still getting 75 Spd (through bonuses). That unit will be much more relevant than a low Atk/high Spd class getting 75 Spd. I also saw a Manakete in there, but that's not going to work well. "Tanking" doesn't really exist in Apo. You want full damage on all combat units. That usually limits all weapon discussion to only braves, but there are some exceptions like the long bow. The dragonstone doesn't bring enough utility (like 3 range that can proc/dual strike) to skip out on brave effect. You have no Snipers, which is somewhat surprising. Speaking of "tanking" there are some skills like dual guard+ which are pretty bad. "When is dual guard+ helpful?" Only when it procs and you would have died (had it not). If dual guard never procs, then it didn't help you. If it did proc--but you didn't need it--, then it didn't help you. If it did proc--and you needed it--, then you made a really bad play. You banked on getting a dual guard, which isn't a good idea. Armsthrift is bad because you have an unlimited convoy. Crit skills are bad without a dedicated crit build. You'll get more mileage out of proc stacking damage than you do single proc. Self healing through Nos/Aversa's/Sol is bad because you forgo braves/an actual damage proc. Okay, thank you for your help. Do you have any more specific information? Totally cool if you don't, though. I'll remove Libra and add a Rescue bot (Maribelle?). I may also use one rally bot instead of two so that I can simplify things. So do I just change my Sorcerers to Sages? Just like that? I'd really rather not have three of the same class. I know Sages are good, but too many of anything makes for an unbalanced team overall IMO. And yes, I'm aware that some people have beaten Apo with only like two or three classes total, that just doesn't fit my playstyle. The Assassins are built specifically to take out Anna. One is the Anna killer and the other is speed support. I do understand your point, though. I am using Nah as a Manakete for the ridiculous strength and defense. I know that other classes offer more utility, but Manakete Nah with Berserker Gerome as a Pair-Up and a Dragonstone+ has 75 strength and 72 defense. I will make Chrom into a Sniper. I disagree with your assessment of DG+, as I find it to be a useful boon, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion. Perhaps we just play differently? Changed the crit skills. I honestly don't know why I even put them down, so thanks for catching that. Thanks again! Edited July 30, 2017 by KiwiScribble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vascela Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 All bots (rescue and rally) can be spotpass units. Most recommendations are 1-4 rally bots (I use 2) and rescue bots fill in the rest of the deployment (I use up to 11). I chose 2 rally bots because I needed one with Spectrum and one without any +def for vengeance setups. The number 1 issue with a single rally bot is you have to skip out on free stats. If I only had 1, I'd probably use Spec/Str/Mag/Skl/Spd (I don't have rally heart), and you could sub heart for 1. Since you do have heart, you're missing out on 2 rallies (whichever one you drop + luk). If someone has access to Sage and Sorc, then yes, switch. " too many of anything makes for an unbalanced team overall " isn't exactly true. Diversity isn't better. Better is better. Since the weapon in question is almost always going to be Celica's Gale, the only difference in performance is the caps and weapon ranks. Sage has [pretty much] strictly better caps and access to staff rank for rescue (which has marginal value if you have a lot of rescue bots, but it does come into play in certain waves). Manakete is a poor class choice. You're looking at a raw Str/Def perspective, which is useful when clearing the story. In Apo, however, your Def becomes more and more negligible. Enemies start carrying Luna+ in high frequency which means your Def is only half value. Some even carry Aether with rightful god. Having 36 Def isn't as useful as you think. The true durability stat is going to be HP, which is capped at 80 before any boosts (which is usually only going to be a tonic for 85). Having that much HP usually means you live at least 1 hit of anything (depending on the enemies in question). This isn't a question of my playstyle vs yours. Def is widely considered as a dump stat. The only value I make of it is making an easier vengeance setup--not for taking more hits. Next I need to address the Atk stat. Having a higher Atk stat doesn't mean you do more damage over an entire fight. Combat isn't as simple as you attack once, enemy attacks, you double attack (if you even have the Spd for it). If that's all combat was, then your Atk stat would mean doing more damage over an entire fight. But there are more factors--brave and pair up. Brave literally doubles your damage at the cost of having a lower Atk. Valflame has an effective Mt of 21 (16 +5 mag it offers) and Celica's Gale has a Mt of 9 (4 +5 Forge). At a glance, Valflame has 12 more Mt than Celica's, but Valflame actually has a worse performance because of the brave effect. Let's say you want to kill an enemy before they retaliate. Valflame would need to nuke someone for 80 (or 99) HP in one shot. Celica's Gale only needs to do 40 (or 50) damage per attack (since it's brave). This isn't even considering another interesting component for pair up. Every attack you make also gives a chance for a dual strike (which you can reach 100% with enough Skl and/or Dual Strike+). This means your ideal combat for a non-brave will be You, Partner, Enemy, You, Partner for a grand total of 4 attacks. Braves on the other hand will have an ideal combat of You, Partner, Partner, You, Partner, Partner, Enemy, You, Partner, Partner, You, Partner, Partner for a grand total of 12 attacks (since your partner will have a brave weapon as well). More often than not, all enemies are dead at the end of the 6th attack (so the enemy doesn't do any damage to you). There is no brave dragonstone. Its high Str stat is completely inferior to a brave weapon. Again, this isn't a playstyle choice. I strongly suggest you not take DG+. Banking on a dual guard is not a good tactic to make. You can take pretty much most things and heal up the same or next turn. If you need to rig a dual guard to complete a wave, then you made a mistake somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiScribble Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 2 hours ago, Vascela said: All bots (rescue and rally) can be spotpass units. Most recommendations are 1-4 rally bots (I use 2) and rescue bots fill in the rest of the deployment (I use up to 11). I chose 2 rally bots because I needed one with Spectrum and one without any +def for vengeance setups. The number 1 issue with a single rally bot is you have to skip out on free stats. If I only had 1, I'd probably use Spec/Str/Mag/Skl/Spd (I don't have rally heart), and you could sub heart for 1. Since you do have heart, you're missing out on 2 rallies (whichever one you drop + luk). If someone has access to Sage and Sorc, then yes, switch. " too many of anything makes for an unbalanced team overall " isn't exactly true. Diversity isn't better. Better is better. Since the weapon in question is almost always going to be Celica's Gale, the only difference in performance is the caps and weapon ranks. Sage has [pretty much] strictly better caps and access to staff rank for rescue (which has marginal value if you have a lot of rescue bots, but it does come into play in certain waves). Manakete is a poor class choice. You're looking at a raw Str/Def perspective, which is useful when clearing the story. In Apo, however, your Def becomes more and more negligible. Enemies start carrying Luna+ in high frequency which means your Def is only half value. Some even carry Aether with rightful god. Having 36 Def isn't as useful as you think. The true durability stat is going to be HP, which is capped at 80 before any boosts (which is usually only going to be a tonic for 85). Having that much HP usually means you live at least 1 hit of anything (depending on the enemies in question). This isn't a question of my playstyle vs yours. Def is widely considered as a dump stat. The only value I make of it is making an easier vengeance setup--not for taking more hits. Next I need to address the Atk stat. Having a higher Atk stat doesn't mean you do more damage over an entire fight. Combat isn't as simple as you attack once, enemy attacks, you double attack (if you even have the Spd for it). If that's all combat was, then your Atk stat would mean doing more damage over an entire fight. But there are more factors--brave and pair up. Brave literally doubles your damage at the cost of having a lower Atk. Valflame has an effective Mt of 21 (16 +5 mag it offers) and Celica's Gale has a Mt of 9 (4 +5 Forge). At a glance, Valflame has 12 more Mt than Celica's, but Valflame actually has a worse performance because of the brave effect. Let's say you want to kill an enemy before they retaliate. Valflame would need to nuke someone for 80 (or 99) HP in one shot. Celica's Gale only needs to do 40 (or 50) damage per attack (since it's brave). This isn't even considering another interesting component for pair up. Every attack you make also gives a chance for a dual strike (which you can reach 100% with enough Skl and/or Dual Strike+). This means your ideal combat for a non-brave will be You, Partner, Enemy, You, Partner for a grand total of 4 attacks. Braves on the other hand will have an ideal combat of You, Partner, Partner, You, Partner, Partner, Enemy, You, Partner, Partner, You, Partner, Partner for a grand total of 12 attacks (since your partner will have a brave weapon as well). More often than not, all enemies are dead at the end of the 6th attack (so the enemy doesn't do any damage to you). There is no brave dragonstone. Its high Str stat is completely inferior to a brave weapon. Again, this isn't a playstyle choice. I strongly suggest you not take DG+. Banking on a dual guard is not a good tactic to make. You can take pretty much most things and heal up the same or next turn. If you need to rig a dual guard to complete a wave, then you made a mistake somewhere. Okay, thank you very much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin_OW Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 SO this is my first FE game ever and im getting kinda lost on the pairings. Im playing on Classic - hard and im not going for super optimal pairings but i would like them not to suck.  Currently i have  Chrom - Sumia Panne - Libra  Lissa - Lon'qa Tharja - Gaius MU - ? Nowi - Donnel Miriel - Ricken (not sure on this one yet) I need to decide on the others still, just was wondering if i was going in a not terrible direction   Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amiabletemplar Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 On 8/2/2017 at 7:27 AM, Ronin_OW said: SO this is my first FE game ever and im getting kinda lost on the pairings. Im playing on Classic - hard and im not going for super optimal pairings but i would like them not to suck. Currently i have Chrom - Sumia Panne - Libra  Lissa - Lon'qa Tharja - Gaius MU - ? Nowi - Donnel Miriel - Ricken (not sure on this one yet) I need to decide on the others still, just was wondering if i was going in a not terrible direction Chrom/Sumia is perfectly fine. Really, most options there are fine--the only two that are "bad" are Chrom/Maiden (avoid this like the plague!) and Chrom/Sully (good mods....but you lose Galeforce, which is kinda mandatory). Yarne prefers Archer from dad, for +20 Hit, helping him hard-support Berserker. Virion is commonly used, and gives Wyvern too which is nice (since Yarne doesn't normally get it from Panne). Stahl is also a good choice, but may be wanted elsewhere. Libra is usually your "third string" Magic-focused dad, after Ricken and Henry (though Henry may also be the "free Berserker" dad), which is generally not a good fit for Yarne. Lon'qu isn't exactly a "bad" dad for Owain, but he can be a better dad for other kids. Severa is possibly the best choice. Owain's "problem" is that his classes are good for physical stuff, but his stats are better for magic--and Lon'qu doesn't change that. If possible, you want Stahl or Vaike (or Fred, I guess) for a physically-inclined Owain. Otherwise, he wants a magic-related dad (Ricken is great, Henry is a bit wasted, Libra is fine). Virion!Owain is interesting, especially if you end up with Owain mostly playing support. Tharja/Gaius is almost always recommended, so I won't spend further time on that. What gender and asset/flaw does your Avatar have? These are very important for discussing where she or he would have the biggest impact. Generally, though, you want to marry a 2nd-generation character (often Lucina for males, or Chrom's son--if he has one--for females) because that's like getting "three" parents instead of two. That is, Morgan will inherit both of his parents' total modifiers...and if Morgan's other parent is 2nd gen, that means inheriting all the modifiers from BOTH of their parents. E.g. if you have a +Spd/-Def Avatar, and she marries (say) Ricken!Owain, your Morgan will have the Avatar's mods, Ricken's mods, AND Lissa's mods. There can be strategies for marrying 1st gen, though, so if you'd prefer to do that, we can discuss what would be most useful. Nowi/Donnel is generally disfavored because Nah is not a particularly good unit--it's not that she's "bad" in an absolute sense, she's just the hardest child to make *great,* so if you have to make a sacrifice, she's the usual choice. This is because, if your Avatar doesn't marry a 2nd-gen character, you end up with 13 children (6 girls, 6 boys, and Morgan)--*one* of them will have to "sit on the bench." Since Morgan's gender is always opposite the Avatar's, this means that you'll bench a girl if your Avatar is male (usually Nah), or a boy if your Avatar is female (usually Gerome). But anyway, instead of Donnel, consider Vaike (esp. if your Avatar is female). It doesn't really matter who her father is if she's going to sit on the bench--though you should still pick someone, because 2nd gen > 1st gen even if just for a Rallybot/staffbot. Miriel/Ricken produces the highest Mag you can get...but is otherwise lackluster. Ricken's classes aren't bad by any means, but they don't make much of a difference for Laurent. Most people recommend Gregor instead: Gregor!Laurent is a fantastically flexible unit who can do almost any (support) role.  Overall, these are not terrible. Nowi/Donnel is okay--at least you're getting her Galeforce--but a little disappointing due to lack of versatility and overly high Defense (tanking is considered an ineffective strategy). Lissa/Lon'qu is in a similar boat; it's not the worst, but it does waste some of LQ's potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bane Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 On 8/2/2017 at 9:27 AM, Ronin_OW said: SO this is my first FE game ever and im getting kinda lost on the pairings. Im playing on Classic - hard and im not going for super optimal pairings but i would like them not to suck.  Currently i have  Chrom - Sumia Panne - Libra  Lissa - Lon'qa Tharja - Gaius MU - ? Nowi - Donnel Miriel - Ricken (not sure on this one yet) I need to decide on the others still, just was wondering if i was going in a not terrible direction   You haven't really told us what you want to do with the kids so I'll tell you some of the highlights of what you have. Chrom/Sumia is really good, feel free to leave that one alone. Panne Libra is alright. The highlight is Hex/Anathema from Dark Mage to fix the Hit Rate of Yarne's Berserker. Generally there are better dads but Libra is fine. Lissa would rather be with a magic husband or Stahl. If you're looking for Owain to keep his sword hand strong, Stahl is probably you best bet. The problem with Lon'qu is that he doesn't give Owain a reliable proc (Luna/Ignis/Vengeance, Astra has too low of an activation chance) and Lon'qu's speed doesn't really change Owain. Tharja Gaius is a pair people recommend frequently and it is quite good. This entirely revolves around Gaius passing Pegasus to Noire, but Swordfaire from Myrm is good too. MU depends entirely on what you want to do so pick your favorite opposite gender character and marry them. Nowi Donnel is alright, if you're just playing the main story pass down Aptitude and maybe get Nah Armsthrift and you can roll pretty effectively. In "optimized postgame" Donnel gives Nah Galeforce, but she'll still be slow and she won't have a proc so that limits her. Miriel Ricken is fine, it's the biggest Magic stat you can give Laurent. It's strange that Laurent only gets physical classes from Ricken, but he's only missing priest so...yeah. It's your first time through the game and it's been nearly 3 weeks since you posted and you've probably already beaten the game, but yeah just get out there and have fun. Your pairs will get you through the game and are okay if you go into the super tough postgame stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSilentChloey Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 I'm looking at making a decent team for Lunatic and want to know if my pairs are worth it.  I have the following in mind: Chrom x Robin Lissa x ??? (Most likely Lon'qu but could be Ricken) Sully x Virion (? Not to sure but I have done this pairing before)  And the rest I don't know.  More than likely the team will be very very condensed because I am trying to just clear Lunatic and likely might go for Apo with said team while pulling rally bots from my Avatar Log Book to fill the gaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amiabletemplar Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 (edited) On 8/23/2017 at 3:09 PM, TheSilentChloey said: I'm looking at making a decent team for Lunatic and want to know if my pairs are worth it.  I have the following in mind: Chrom x Robin Lissa x ??? (Most likely Lon'qu but could be Ricken) Sully x Virion (? Not to sure but I have done this pairing before)  And the rest I don't know.  More than likely the team will be very very condensed because I am trying to just clear Lunatic and likely might go for Apo with said team while pulling rally bots from my Avatar Log Book to fill the gaps. You'll still (almost certainly) want to get every child character, simply because they have that much of an edge over their parents. Chrom x Robin is fine, generally Chrom makes a better Physical dad but Robin's mods can really make almost anything. I'd recommend the typical +Spd/-Def, as that gives both children an extremely competent set of mods, but you can swing +Str or +Mag if you want Lucina and Morgan to be good at that. +Skl/-Def would also be good, though it pushes things toward physical specifically. Male Morgan means you'll be "benching" Gerome, so I'll save that for last. Next: Sumia x Henry. With the bonus Mag and Cynthia's naturally good stats, she'll make a great Sage, Valkyrie, or Dark Flier. Pass down Wrath or Gamble; there are other options, but honestly none of them are especially good (Axefaire helps physical, but Henry!Cynthia wants to do magic; Counter is useless in Apo; Rally Strength is a waste when logbook bots can handle that; Despoil is only for grinding, but you can use DLC instead). Ricken is the superior choice. Ricken!Owain is wonderfully diverse, much like Gregor!Laurent--he's still best at magic, but he can really do anything (Sage, Sniper, Zerker, and BK are all good choices.) Naturally, pass down GF. Virion!Kjelle is...workable, with +5 Spd/Skl and Sniper. But...you really want GF for Apo, and Donnel!Kjelle gets Aptitude to squeeze more benefit out of every level-up. Since it sounds like you want to move quickly, Donnel x Sully is even better a choice than it usually is. From there, we still have Tharja, Cordelia, Panne, Nowi, Miriel, Maribelle, Olivia, and Cherche. I would recommend: Tharja x Gaius. Go for Sniper. Inheritance matters little as Fighter-line skills provide minimal benefit to Gaius!Noire. Sniper is your go-to, but Assassin/BK can also work. Cordelia x Lon'qu. An unorthodox but excellent unit. Pass down whatever you think will save you time (GF and...Swordfaire? L7?). Assassin, BK, and WL all look good. Nowi x Vaike. Making the best of a so-so unit. Definitely pass down Axefaire, and use General. Vaike!Nah can hit pretty hard. Miriel x Gregor. Another "boring/expected" pair, but it's just so good. Miriel should pass down DSup+. Consider VVW. Hard support as Sage or Berserker. Cherche x Fred. The character's a bench anyway, so it doesn't matter much. DSup+ from Cherche, staff bot. You'll notice I've left out Maribelle, Olivia, and Panne. That's because I'm legitimately not sure how to handle them. Normally, I default to Panne x Virion, Maribelle x Libra, and Olivia x Stahl (when he's available, as he is here). But...you could swap any of these around. They provide most of the same benefits, and even Libra!Yarne isn't bad (as others have said above). I'm honestly kind of leaning toward Stahl!Yarne, Virion!Inigo, and Libra!Brady, but these are really your call. If, on the other hand, you do decide to do Virion!Kjelle, you'll naturally do Nowi x Donnel (so somebody gets his Pegasus inheritance), which frees Vaike up to be somebody's dad. Not sure where to go from there, and I'm too tired to deeply think through it. Not seeing very many good options, unfortunately. Edited August 25, 2017 by amiabletemplar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSilentChloey Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 4 hours ago, amiabletemplar said: You'll still (almost certainly) want to get every child character, simply because they have that much of an edge over their parents. Chrom x Robin is fine, generally Chrom makes a better Physical dad but Robin's mods can really make almost anything. I'd recommend the typical +Spd/-Def, as that gives both children an extremely competent set of mods, but you can swing +Str or +Mag if you want Lucina and Morgan to be good at that. +Skl/-Def would also be good, though it pushes things toward physical specifically. Male Morgan means you'll be "benching" Gerome, so I'll save that for last. Next: Sumia x Henry. With the bonus Mag and Cynthia's naturally good stats, she'll make a great Sage, Valkyrie, or Dark Flier. Pass down Wrath or Gamble; there are other options, but honestly none of them are especially good (Axefaire helps physical, but Henry!Cynthia wants to do magic; Counter is useless in Apo; Rally Strength is a waste when logbook bots can handle that; Despoil is only for grinding, but you can use DLC instead). Ricken is the superior choice. Ricken!Owain is wonderfully diverse, much like Gregor!Laurent--he's still best at magic, but he can really do anything (Sage, Sniper, Zerker, and BK are all good choices.) Naturally, pass down GF. Virion!Kjelle is...workable, with +5 Spd/Skl and Sniper. But...you really want GF for Apo, and Donnel!Kjelle gets Aptitude to squeeze more benefit out of every level-up. Since it sounds like you want to move quickly, Donnel x Sully is even better a choice than it usually is. From there, we still have Tharja, Cordelia, Panne, Nowi, Miriel, Maribelle, Olivia, and Cherche. I would recommend: Tharja x Gaius. Go for Sniper. Inheritance matters little as Fighter-line skills provide minimal benefit to Gaius!Noire. Sniper is your go-to, but Assassin/BK can also work. Cordelia x Lon'qu. An unorthodox but excellent unit. Pass down whatever you think will save you time (GF and...Swordfaire? L7?). Assassin, BK, and WL all look good. Nowi x Vaike. Making the best of a so-so unit. Definitely pass down Axefaire, and use General. Vaike!Nah can hit pretty hard. Miriel x Gregor. Another "boring/expected" pair, but it's just so good. Miriel should pass down DSup+. Consider VVW. Hard support as Sage or Berserker. Cherche x Fred. The character's a bench anyway, so it doesn't matter much. DSup+ from Cherche, staff bot. You'll notice I've left out Maribelle, Olivia, and Panne. That's because I'm legitimately not sure how to handle them. Normally, I default to Panne x Virion, Maribelle x Libra, and Olivia x Stahl (when he's available, as he is here). But...you could swap any of these around. They provide most of the same benefits, and even Libra!Yarne isn't bad (as others have said above). I'm honestly kind of leaning toward Stahl!Yarne, Virion!Inigo, and Libra!Brady, but these are really your call. If, on the other hand, you do decide to do Virion!Kjelle, you'll naturally do Nowi x Donnel (so somebody gets his Pegasus inheritance), which frees Vaike up to be somebody's dad. Not sure where to go from there, and I'm too tired to deeply think through it. Not seeing very many good options, unfortunately. From what I have read it is literally pointless to get Donnel in anything above HM because Donny's too frail even though he can be a good dad; so no Donnel!Kjelle like I would really want to even though I know that is technically the way to go it's just not an option for Lunatic. Add to that I highly doubt that I'm going to get in more than the three pairs and their kids trained given my own lack of experience with Lunatic mode, so while I'll have DLC and what not, I doubt that I'd make it through without pushing the numbers down against my own preference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eeeeeeeeeeeeeee Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 (edited) Can I get some feedback on my pairings? Note: I wont change Avatar/Lissa/Chrom/Sumia for reasons :/ I also listed their end class! MU Asset: Magic Flaw: Luck Avatar x Lissa = Morgan(F) [Sorcerer]/Owain [Dread Fighter] Lissa passes down Galeforce Chrom x Sumia = Lucina [Great Lord]/Cynthia [Bride] Sumia passes down Galeforce Frederick x Olivia = Inigo [Great Knight] Olivia passes down Galeforce Henry x Mirabelle = Brady [Sage] Mirabelle passes down Galeforce Stahl x Cordelia = Severa [Hero] Cordelia passes down Galeforce Donnel x Sully = Kjelle [General] Donnel passes down Galeforce via male classes switching to female Gaius x Tharja = Noire [Sniper] Gaius passes down Galeforce via male classes switching to female Gregor x Cherche = Gerome [Berserker] Kellam x Panne = Yarne [Berserker] Lon'Qu x Miriel = Laurent [Sorcerer] Vaike x Nowi = Nah [Manakete] I'll admit I got lazy with the non-galeforce kids classes. Total Galeforce Users: 9 Non-Galeforce Users: 4 Edited September 11, 2017 by Dangeki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bane Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 1 hour ago, Dangeki said: Can I get some feedback on my pairings? Note: I wont change Avatar/Lissa/Chrom/Sumia for reasons :/ I also listed their end class! MU Asset: Magic Flaw: Luck Avatar x Lissa = Morgan(F) [Sorcerer]/Owain [Dread Fighter] Lissa passes down Galeforce Chrom x Sumia = Lucina [Great Lord]/Cynthia [Bride] Sumia passes down Galeforce Frederick x Olivia = Inigo [Great Knight] Olivia passes down Galeforce Henry x Mirabelle = Brady [Sage] Mirabelle passes down Galeforce Stahl x Cordelia = Severa [Hero] Cordelia passes down Galeforce Donnel x Sully = Kjelle [General] Donnel passes down Galeforce via male classes switching to female Gaius x Tharja = Noire [Sniper] Gaius passes down Galeforce via male classes switching to female Gregor x Cherche = Gerome [Berserker] Kellam x Panne = Yarne [Berserker] Lon'Qu x Miriel = Laurent [Sorcerer] Vaike x Nowi = Nah [Manakete] I'll admit I got lazy with the non-galeforce kids classes. Total Galeforce Users: 9 Non-Galeforce Users: 4 I don't know if you're going to apo/how much dlc you plan to use so I'm going to be a little vague. Inigo: He's a galeboy with a proc alright, you might be better off in Paladin or Bow Knight but that depends on how much speed his wife needs. He's fine. Brady: He gets more magic. He's fine. If someone else needs Henry more he can swap to a dad with more skill/speed, but he's fine as he is. Severa: Doesn't live up to her unique speed potential, but she's quite flexible. She's fine. Kjelle/Noire: They're fine. They both have Galeforce. Gerome: Gregor's probably the worst of the Berserker dads for not offering a +hit skill, but he has Berserker so he's fine. Yarne: I'd give Yarne a dad with a +hit skill personally, but if you're looking to use Kellam as a father Yarne isn't a bad place to do it. Laurent: If he marries Lucina they can run a 100% VV setup with Laurent in the front, so that's unique I guess. Laurent won't really use Lon'qu's classes or his speed though. He's okay, but Lon'qu!Laurent is generally used to pass +4/+5/+5 Mag/Skill/Speed to M!Morgan. Nah: Axefaire Hero and General are about as strong as Nah gets, so this is fine. Manakete is unique though so go ham if you're really feeling it, but I get the feeling that Nah's just going to be sitting on the bench. The standout is switching Kellam with Virion (or Ricken, +hit is that good with Berserker), but most everything else is fine. You could do a 3 dad trade to Lon'qu!Brady, Henry!Gerome, and Gregor!Laurent. This might give Brady enough speed to dip into Dark Knight for more move while skirmishing, Gerome gets hex/anathema to fix his and his team's accuracy while he's in Berserker, and Laurent is about the same but he gets more versatility while running physical sets (surprise, Laurent is a good physical support with +hit and Berserker at base!) or he can go VV if you're feeling cheeky. I didn't talk about Owain, Morgan, Cynthia or Lucina because Cynthia and Lucina are extremely strong and Owain and Morgan have all classes so they can make anything work. (You might want to make Owain Grandmaster for better support bonuses while still being able to hit 75 spd (you can get +22 speed between skills/rallys/tonics/pair up, and wow I did not remember him being THAT fast) and hitting a little stronger with magic, but it's not a big deal.) I think you've built your team to be flexible (Donnel!Kjelle, Fred!Inigo, Stahl!Severa can all run a bunch of classes interchangably) and I think you can be a little more specialized if you want. Stuff like Wyvern!Severa/Kjelle with Virion/Lon'qu!Severa or Gaius!Kjelle for flying 8 move (10 with the rallies, I think) that nothing can stop, or you could build 100% DS pairs or do the legwork for maximum Vengeance. This team is fine as it stands but I think you've got room to do more interesting things with it tl;dr: Put Virion or Ricken on Yarne and everything else is fine. Maybe switch Nah to a Hero with Axefaire if you feel like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eeeeeeeeeeeeeee Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 1 hour ago, Bane said: I don't know if you're going to apo/how much dlc you plan to use so I'm going to be a little vague. Inigo: He's a galeboy with a proc alright, you might be better off in Paladin or Bow Knight but that depends on how much speed his wife needs. He's fine. Brady: He gets more magic. He's fine. If someone else needs Henry more he can swap to a dad with more skill/speed, but he's fine as he is. Severa: Doesn't live up to her unique speed potential, but she's quite flexible. She's fine. Kjelle/Noire: They're fine. They both have Galeforce. Gerome: Gregor's probably the worst of the Berserker dads for not offering a +hit skill, but he has Berserker so he's fine. Yarne: I'd give Yarne a dad with a +hit skill personally, but if you're looking to use Kellam as a father Yarne isn't a bad place to do it. Laurent: If he marries Lucina they can run a 100% VV setup with Laurent in the front, so that's unique I guess. Laurent won't really use Lon'qu's classes or his speed though. He's okay, but Lon'qu!Laurent is generally used to pass +4/+5/+5 Mag/Skill/Speed to M!Morgan. Nah: Axefaire Hero and General are about as strong as Nah gets, so this is fine. Manakete is unique though so go ham if you're really feeling it, but I get the feeling that Nah's just going to be sitting on the bench. The standout is switching Kellam with Virion (or Ricken, +hit is that good with Berserker), but most everything else is fine. You could do a 3 dad trade to Lon'qu!Brady, Henry!Gerome, and Gregor!Laurent. This might give Brady enough speed to dip into Dark Knight for more move while skirmishing, Gerome gets hex/anathema to fix his and his team's accuracy while he's in Berserker, and Laurent is about the same but he gets more versatility while running physical sets (surprise, Laurent is a good physical support with +hit and Berserker at base!) or he can go VV if you're feeling cheeky. I didn't talk about Owain, Morgan, Cynthia or Lucina because Cynthia and Lucina are extremely strong and Owain and Morgan have all classes so they can make anything work. (You might want to make Owain Grandmaster for better support bonuses while still being able to hit 75 spd (you can get +22 speed between skills/rallys/tonics/pair up, and wow I did not remember him being THAT fast) and hitting a little stronger with magic, but it's not a big deal.) I think you've built your team to be flexible (Donnel!Kjelle, Fred!Inigo, Stahl!Severa can all run a bunch of classes interchangably) and I think you can be a little more specialized if you want. Stuff like Wyvern!Severa/Kjelle with Virion/Lon'qu!Severa or Gaius!Kjelle for flying 8 move (10 with the rallies, I think) that nothing can stop, or you could build 100% DS pairs or do the legwork for maximum Vengeance. This team is fine as it stands but I think you've got room to do more interesting things with it tl;dr: Put Virion or Ricken on Yarne and everything else is fine. Maybe switch Nah to a Hero with Axefaire if you feel like it. Thank you so much I'm glad I finally made some good pairings! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IEatLasers Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Chrom and Olivia is honestly OTP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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