7733 posts in this topic

It's usually the case that Vaike goes to a son for the male exclusive Berserker (which is the best physical hard support). So, he's most common with Gerome or Yarne. He also offers axefaire to females, so something like Vaike!Nah is somewhat applicable. Vaike!Kjelle doesn't get galeforce. Typically, Kjelle and Noire will get dibs on the gale dads (while Nah gets the short stick since she doesn't have a damage proc), which leads to Gaius and Donnel being taken from the get-go. The tl;dr is Kjelle doesn't care which one she gets, but Noire wants Gaius. So no, Vaike's best child isn't Kjelle.

Brady and Cynthia both don't mind either pairings. It would depend on which one do you want to have vengeance (if you wanted it at all). Brady gets his entire base kit with Luna from her mother. Gaius!Cynthia would need a +2 Spd pair up to skip AS+2 (as a DF) to hit 75. Sages have the most synergy, but won't have the pair up. Berserkers have bad synergy (the only physical/magical pair I'd recommend are with Sniper), but they have the pair up. You could fish for a Hero, but females end here more often than males (who end on those 2 classes usually).

Gregor!Laurent is the classic Laurent. Virion is an interesting father: he provides everything that isn't a proc. Good mods with Sniper or Sage. You might see this pairing with Yarne since he wants hit (HR+20 from sniper) and has natural berserker. Same for Gerome (but without natural berserker he has Warrior, which is somewhat of a downgrade). Of course, there are others that would take him like Virion!Severa. Hell, anyone becomes relevant with Sniper since 3 range makes anyone usable (even without a proc).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I have finally finished what pairing i am going to go through with for this file. I would definitly appreciate some feedback on these.

My Unit FioraxChrom 

StahlxCordelia

DonnelxSully

HenryxSumia

VirionxPanne

RickenxMaribelle

VaikexCherche

Frederick/Lon'QuxOlivia

GaiusxTharja

Kellam/FrederickxNowi 

GregorxMiriel

 

libraxLissa

 

i have only married My unit, Cordelia, and Miriel. I can reset my game if any of the parings are absolute garbage, but I would rather not.

MU is + Magic -Strength

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I have revised my parings- 

Sumia!Lucina (I really didn't want to…)

Ricken!Owain (Obvious) 

Libra!Inigo (One of Libra's best children, if not the best) 

Henry!Brady (sorcerer Brady FTW) 

Donnel!Kjelle (Yay, Galeforce) 

Chrom!Cynthia (Poor Cynthia) 

Lon'qu!Severa (All the speed) 

Stahl!Gerome (Probably the best Gerome (?), surprised I actually got this to happen) 

Kellam!Yarne (…I have nothing to say about this) 

Gregor!Laurent (See Owain) 

Gaius!Noire (See Kjelle) 

Frederick!Nah (One of the only viable tanks in the game) 

I'm planning on doing both a male and a female avatar play through. My question is, which character would be the most optimal father and mother for Morgan? Haven't started the play through yet, so asset and flaw are flexible. If you only know one or the other, that's cool too. 

Edited by KiwiScribble

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you like a certain pairing, then do it. If you are completely against a pairing (like Chrom/Sumia), then don't do it. Trust me on this: don't make a team you don't like. I won't get into why you should or shouldn't do Chrom/Sumia, but know that Sumia is happy to take Henry (also know that her spouse pool is limited and Cynthia actually likes Chrom).

Gerome wants Vaike or Henry as his top 2. One has slightly higher damage and one has slightly higher utility (both end in Berserker--his primary end class). Still, bowfaire warrior isn't that much of a step down.

Usually Kellam or Frederick don't marry--Vaike is actually a really good father for hard supports. I wouldn't brush off Virion either. Think about it like this: Gerome would take Vaike, Stahl, Virion and Henry, Yarne would take all 4 as well. Nah would take all 4 as well, but Virion would be a distant 4th (Sniper makes anyone relevant, but sometimes you want to be more than "relevant"). Also, there's no such thing as a viable tank in Apotheosis. That's because tanking isn't viable. It's a game of pure offense, so keep that in mind. It's also one reasons why Sage is pretty much strictly better than Sorcerer (so Brady would actually just go Sage since it has the better caps).

Morgan is in a place that depends on how you want to decide "pick" order. Robin and Chrom no question about it want each other as spouses. It's one of, if not the, best pairing in the game. The problem is that Morgan, Lucina, and Lucina's potential siblings don't want that pairing. Morgan wants mods + Lucina spouse. Lucina doesn't care as long as she gets galeforce, but she'd prefer Maribelle or Sumia. She somewhat wants Morgan as a spouse too, and siblings can't S-rank. Some people like Cynthia want Chrom. What's even more ironic is that Morgan wants mods from hilariously awkward pairings (Lon'qu!Laurent, Lon'qu!Noire, Libra!Brady, Ricken!Laurent just to name a few). Not many people recommends those Morgans, and part of it is because nobody recommends those pairings (although Libra!Brady isn't that bad, it's just that some people actually like Libra). Morgan will do everything you need from pretty much any parent. If you ever decide to do something like no dlc/no rally or no dlc/no braves, then picking out Morgan's mods actually can be a deal breaker. It's hard to believe that +1 Skl on Morgan can be more useful than multiple children combined, so don't worry about it.

Your asset will vary depending on how you want Robin and Morgan to play. Mag, Spd, Str, and Skl all have pretty good niches. Def is the default flaw since it hurts you the least (-1 Luk as opposed to hurting those 4 offensive stats). So, pick a final class you want for Robin and Morgan and move on from there.

Just do FeMU x Chrom and Stahl!Gerome. It seems to me that you like those pairings in your two posts. There's nothing wrong in liking a pairing, but do know some end goals like Gerome wants Berserker. That's just so you understand why everyone you see recommends Vaike or Henry for him--it's not to flat out discourage you. Know what you're losing, but also know what you get (like Brady should end Sage and not Sorcerer). Sometimes you'll lock in a pairing and might not know all the benefits that come with it (and that's ok, just ask and we'd be happy to spread some info).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Vascela said:

If you like a certain pairing, then do it. If you are completely against a pairing (like Chrom/Sumia), then don't do it. Trust me on this: don't make a team you don't like. I won't get into why you should or shouldn't do Chrom/Sumia, but know that Sumia is happy to take Henry (also know that her spouse pool is limited and Cynthia actually likes Chrom).

Gerome wants Vaike or Henry as his top 2. One has slightly higher damage and one has slightly higher utility (both end in Berserker--his primary end class). Still, bowfaire warrior isn't that much of a step down.

Usually Kellam or Frederick don't marry--Vaike is actually a really good father for hard supports. I wouldn't brush off Virion either. Think about it like this: Gerome would take Vaike, Stahl, Virion and Henry, Yarne would take all 4 as well. Nah would take all 4 as well, but Virion would be a distant 4th (Sniper makes anyone relevant, but sometimes you want to be more than "relevant"). Also, there's no such thing as a viable tank in Apotheosis. That's because tanking isn't viable. It's a game of pure offense, so keep that in mind. It's also one reasons why Sage is pretty much strictly better than Sorcerer (so Brady would actually just go Sage since it has the better caps).

Morgan is in a place that depends on how you want to decide "pick" order. Robin and Chrom no question about it want each other as spouses. It's one of, if not the, best pairing in the game. The problem is that Morgan, Lucina, and Lucina's potential siblings don't want that pairing. Morgan wants mods + Lucina spouse. Lucina doesn't care as long as she gets galeforce, but she'd prefer Maribelle or Sumia. She somewhat wants Morgan as a spouse too, and siblings can't S-rank. Some people like Cynthia want Chrom. What's even more ironic is that Morgan wants mods from hilariously awkward pairings (Lon'qu!Laurent, Lon'qu!Noire, Libra!Brady, Ricken!Laurent just to name a few). Not many people recommends those Morgans, and part of it is because nobody recommends those pairings (although Libra!Brady isn't that bad, it's just that some people actually like Libra). Morgan will do everything you need from pretty much any parent. If you ever decide to do something like no dlc/no rally or no dlc/no braves, then picking out Morgan's mods actually can be a deal breaker. It's hard to believe that +1 Skl on Morgan can be more useful than multiple children combined, so don't worry about it.

Your asset will vary depending on how you want Robin and Morgan to play. Mag, Spd, Str, and Skl all have pretty good niches. Def is the default flaw since it hurts you the least (-1 Luk as opposed to hurting those 4 offensive stats). So, pick a final class you want for Robin and Morgan and move on from there.

Just do FeMU x Chrom and Stahl!Gerome. It seems to me that you like those pairings in your two posts. There's nothing wrong in liking a pairing, but do know some end goals like Gerome wants Berserker. That's just so you understand why everyone you see recommends Vaike or Henry for him--it's not to flat out discourage you. Know what you're losing, but also know what you get (like Brady should end Sage and not Sorcerer). Sometimes you'll lock in a pairing and might not know all the benefits that come with it (and that's ok, just ask and we'd be happy to spread some info).

I'm really not against Chrom/Sumia, I just don't like their support. That's pretty much the only reason I don't want to do it, but I know it's probably optimal from what you've said. That was my bad, I should've made that clear. Also, I just said that about Cynthia because there are paring that work out better for her, but I do recognize that Chrom's a pretty good option, just not optimal in my opinion. Again, my bad. 

As for Stahl!Gerome, I feel that people vastly underrate this paring. I do understand why Vaike!Gerome is a thing, good strength mod and he makes a great aggro support. However, let's be honest, this makes his resistance crap. As a Berserker, it's in the thirties with Limit Breaker. Has pretty bad skill too. Stahl!Gerome pretty much does the same thing as Vaike!Gerome, but with Swordfaire instead of Axefaire and with much more balanced stats. Stahl!Gerome in the Paladin class has higher magic than Vaike!Gerome's Resistance in the Berserker class. 

Thanks for the tip on Sage Brady. I just really like Sorcerers. They're my second favorite class. And my first is Dark Knight. No wonder I love Henry so much

I'll probably just play around with Morgan's stats and go from there. 

Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only non-Chrom!Cynthia that gets mentioned is going to be Henry (who many, many kids want). Gaius is already going to Noire/Kjelle, so he gets ruled out (and Frederick is excluded from the start). If you're argument was Henry!Cynthia gets vengeance, so he's better, that's good enough to convince me. But that doesn't seem to be the case here (where vengeance doesn't seem to hold much value to you).

I don't think I explained the offense and defense part of my post as well as I wanted it. For 99% of the time, defensive stats are dump stats that will hold zero relevance. The 1% of the time is for vengeance setups, where Def is actually useful (sometimes even a desired stat for simple setups on certain enemy phases). Resistance on the other hand, isn't used in offense or vengeance setups. So that makes it doubly negligible (where Def is usually negligible). On top of that, most stats on a hard support are actually ignored. Spd, being one of the most favored stat in FE history, turns out to be a dump stat on most hard supports like Gerome. In a world where you never lead, the only stats you care about are Str/Mag (whichever is applicable, Str in Berserker Gerome's case), Skl, and Luk (hit rate). Off attack stat, Spd, and durability stats--technically even HP don't matter. That's a bit of an extreme case (and why Vaike!Gerome got as big as he is today). When you only care about raw damage, max Str mods Berserker is easily a staple to a team. His only problem is a hit issue (since Berserker has that juicy Skl stat and Vaike offers no good hit skills), which is why Henry pops up in recommendations (hexnathema is a beautiful thing).

And if you're not in Berserker, that usually means he's in Warrior (not Paladin). Sure, Paladin is a +2 Spd pair up (so +4 Spd on pair up total), but Paladin's 42 Str is fairly low to Warriors 48 (or Berserker's 50). If you opted for Paladin instead of Berserker, you lose out on 8 Str (4 Dmg/Swing, over 8 attacks; 32 Dmg/combat) and +3 Str pair up (~1 Dmg/Swing, so only ~8 Dmg/combat) and the extra +1 Spd pair up (some units like Lon'qu!Severa at Wyvern Lord want a Berserker support). One of the best things about Apo is how hard it is to raise damage in general thanks to PavGis+ and Dragonskin (it takes ~4 points of Atk to do ~1 extra damage). The problem in this situation is that you're forfeiting so much in raw stats over an entire round of combat. The small numbers don't hurt much, but ending in Paladin is a huge blow to damage. Is Paladin really offering something as good as literally half of an enemy's hp? My guess is no, probably not. Damage is technically twice as valuable on a hard support because they ignore PavGis+ since it doesn't proc on dual strikes. Had Gerome been leading against one that had them, the difference would be much less (2 Dmg/Swing). But we don't live in a world where a hard support's performance is measured in his leading abilities.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

On 6/18/2017 at 11:36 AM, DisobeyedCargo said:

So I have finally finished what pairing i am going to go through with for this file. I would definitly appreciate some feedback on these.

My Unit FioraxChrom 
StahlxCordelia
DonnelxSully
HenryxSumia
VirionxPanne
RickenxMaribelle
VaikexCherche
Frederick/Lon'QuxOlivia
GaiusxTharja
Kellam/FrederickxNowi
GregorxMiriel
libraxLissa

i have only married My unit, Cordelia, and Miriel. I can reset my game if any of the parings are absolute garbage, but I would rather not.

MU is + Magic -Strength

The good: AvatarxChrom is just fine. I've got that on one of my files, and I feel that it's the most natural (narrative) pairing for the female Avatar. It's nice having such a diverse Lucina, though (as others have noted) you miss out on the MMorganxLucina pairing that can potentially be the strongest two units. You'll do just fine with DonnelxSully, HenryxSumia, GaiusxTharja, and GregorxMiriel. Speaking from experience, FredxOlivia is actually pretty good; Fred!Inigo is one of the better places to put Frederick, if you have to use him, as Inigo has less to lose and can actually gain a bit from it (in terms of skills). Libra!Owain is workable, and can pull off a full VVW combo if that's of interest to you, while RickenxMaribelle is a fine choice for a magic-focused Brady, though you could swap these (LibraxMaribelle and RickenxLissa); IMO Owain gains more from Ricken than Brady loses with Libra, but it's a borderline case.

The "bad": (Note the quotes!) Normally, Vaike x Cherche is a standard choice...when the Avatar marries a 2nd gen unit, because Vaike!Gerome is a fully competent hard support (Berserker *and* DSup+ makes for a nice supportive unit.) However, because the Avatar is marrying a 1st gen unit, you'll end up with one "spare" child, and in this case, Gerome is the best choice for your "spare" because you have 7 boys (MMorgan, Yarne, Brady, Gerome, Inigo, Laurent, Owain) but only 6 girls, and Gerome is the weakest of the boys. And, as noted by others, "tanking" isn't a good idea in Apo, where you're trying to take the enemy out as fast as possible, so neither Kellam nor Frederick are good choices for Nah's father. Both Nowi and Cherche may want other husbands.

Recommendations: With your fixed pairs set, I'd go with Lon'quxOlivia and not FredxOlivia, swap to VaikexNowi for a strong female physical support Nah, and swap to RickenxLissa and LibraxMaribelle unless you have a preference for the support convos of RickenxMaribelle and LibraxLissa. It doesn't matter who Cherche marries because Gerome is your bench character, so pick Fred or Kellam at your leisure.

If you're really interested in a very optimal set, consider restarting for Lon'qu x Cordelia, as LQ!Severa is an unorthodox powerhouse; also, swap your Avatar to +Mag/-Def instead of +Mag/-Str, because that's slightly more optimal (and means Lucina and Morgan are a little better if you need them to play physical for some reason). But as these are very marginal gains, it's probably not worth the effort. (If you *do* do this, I recommend StahlxPanne and FredxOlivia, but there are other options.)

On 6/20/2017 at 10:18 PM, KiwiScribble said:

I have revised my parings- 

Sumia!Lucina (I really didn't want to…)
Ricken!Owain (Obvious)
Libra!Inigo (One of Libra's best children, if not the best)
Henry!Brady (sorcerer Brady FTW)
Donnel!Kjelle (Yay, Galeforce)
Chrom!Cynthia (Poor Cynthia)
Lon'qu!Severa (All the speed)
Stahl!Gerome (Probably the best Gerome (?), surprised I actually got this to happen)
Kellam!Yarne (…I have nothing to say about this)
Gregor!Laurent (See Owain)
Gaius!Noire (See Kjelle)
Frederick!Nah (One of the only viable tanks in the game) 

I'm planning on doing both a male and a female avatar play through. My question is, which character would be the most optimal father and mother for Morgan? Haven't started the play through yet, so asset and flaw are flexible. If you only know one or the other, that's cool too. 

This got kinda long, so I'm putting it in a spoiler block.

Spoiler

 

There really is no "most optimal" parent for Morgan because Morgan brings so much to the table innately--other than "always marry 2nd gen if you can." It's all about what you want to *do* with Morgan. So, for example, Vaike!Yarne!Morgan has absolutely monstrous Str (+10!), while Ricken!Laurent!Morgan has monstrous Mag (again, +10). If you go with those lineages, your male Morgan will be excellent for physical or magical damage, respectively. Determine what you'd like Morgan to focus on first, then figure out what the best pairing to achieve that end would be. In general, you want to stack as many modifiers together as possible.

Let's say you want a female Morgan with sky-high Spd and Skl. Your Avatar should thus take +Spd/-Def (arguably the "most optimal" mod choice, as it has no meaningful weaknesses *and* good synergy), and wants to marry a 2nd-gen girl with high Spd and Skl. The obvious stand-out candidate is Severa, as she has the best or co-best in both stats with nearly any father, and LQ!Severa is *the* best choice for a Skl/Spd mother, bar none. LQ!Severa!Morgan has a whopping 8 Skl, 10 Spd, making her by far the fastest unit you can field, while still having positive Str (+2) *and* positive Lck (+1). But you could totally do a completely different FMorgan and end up with an entirely different choice (perhaps a mag-focused FMorgan, which points to Ricken!Noire or, possibly better, Maribelle!Lucina for her mother). It's all about finding the tradeoffs and exploring the consequences of particular choices (e.g. Ricken!Noire may be underpowered because it means Noire won't get GF, so all she can do is support the Avatar).

Also, while I know you said you have "nothing to say" about Kellam!Yarne...you really should go for Virion!Yarne instead, if you have any choice in the matter. Kellam neither gives Yarne the accuracy bonus he wants, nor any particularly useful modifiers other than slightly improved Str. I've noticed that a lot of people seem to neglect Virion, which is odd because he's a perfectly cromulent father, especially for children that want +20 Hit or decent Spd/Skl when Lon'qu is already taken. Yarne is both of those things, since he makes a fine Berserker by himself, and gobbles up that +20 hit eagerly. And...where is Vaike? He's an excellent father purely for his mods, and for passing down Berserker (or one of its skills) to his child. Surely you could use Vaike instead of either Kellam or Fred. Vaike!Nah is one of the best things you can do with her (better classes, better inheritances, AND better mods), whereas Fred!Nah is more "well, I have no other choices."

Stahl!Gerome is...not as good as you seem to think. Gerome is best used as a Berserker support, but he doesn't *have* Berserker in his kit naturally--he has to inherit it from his father. Since, as you've said, Gregor is almost always already taken for Laurent, that means you need Henry or Vaike for his father. Stahl does offer Sniper, which is always adequate but that's not the same as "best," as others already said. BK or Bowfaire Warrior are fine uses for Stahl!Gerome, though, so don't take this as saying he's bad. He's just not the best. As others have noted, tanking is not viable in Apo, and Apo is the only thing this thread focuses on. Outside of Apo, damn near *everything* is viable if you work hard enough for it, so it's not really pertinent.

Anyway, to actually review the pairs you've listed, in order:
Good, Good, Fair, Fair, Great, Good, Great, Fair, Horrible, Great, Great, Bad. You should pull both Kellam and Fred and sub in Virion and Vaike, respectively.

 

 

Edited by amiabletemplar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, amiabletemplar said:

The good: AvatarxChrom is just fine. I've got that on one of my files, and I feel that it's the most natural (narrative) pairing for the female Avatar. It's nice having such a diverse Lucina, though (as others have noted) you miss out on the MMorganxLucina pairing that can potentially be the strongest two units. You'll do just fine with DonnelxSully, HenryxSumia, GaiusxTharja, and GregorxMiriel. Speaking from experience, FredxOlivia is actually pretty good; Fred!Inigo is one of the better places to put Frederick, if you have to use him, as Inigo has less to lose and can actually gain a bit from it (in terms of skills). Libra!Owain is workable, and can pull off a full VVW combo if that's of interest to you, while RickenxMaribelle is a fine choice for a magic-focused Brady, though you could swap these (LibraxMaribelle and RickenxLissa); IMO Owain gains more from Ricken than Brady loses with Libra, but it's a borderline case.

The "bad": (Note the quotes!) Normally, Vaike x Cherche is a standard choice...when the Avatar marries a 2nd gen unit, because Vaike!Gerome is a fully competent hard support (Berserker *and* DSup+ makes for a nice supportive unit.) However, because the Avatar is marrying a 1st gen unit, you'll end up with one "spare" child, and in this case, Gerome is the best choice for your "spare" because you have 7 boys (MMorgan, Yarne, Brady, Gerome, Inigo, Laurent, Owain) but only 6 girls, and Gerome is the weakest of the 6 boys. And, as noted, "tanking" isn't a good idea in Apo, where you're trying to take the enemy out as fast as possible, so neither Kellam nor Frederick are good choices for Nah's father. So both Nowi and Cherche may want other husbands.

Recommendations: With your fixed pairs set, I'd go with Lon'quxOlivia and not FredxOlivia, swap to VaikexNowi for a strong female physical support Nah, and swap to RickenxLissa and LibraxMaribelle unless you have a preference for the support convos of RickenxMaribelle and LibraxLissa. It doesn't matter who Cherche marries because Gerome is your bench character, so pick Fred or Kellam at your leisure.

If you're really interested in a very optimal set, consider restarting for Lon'qu x Cordelia, as LQ!Severa is an unorthodox powerhouse; also, swap your Avatar to +Mag/-Def instead of +Mag/-Str, because that's slightly more optimal (and means Lucina and Morgan are a little better if you need them to play physical for some reason). But as these are very marginal gains, it's probably not worth the effort. (If you *do* do this, I recommend StahlxPanne and FredxOlivia, but there are other options.)

This got kinda long, so I'm putting it in a spoiler block.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

There really is no "most optimal" parent for Morgan because Morgan brings so much to the table innately--other than "always marry 2nd gen if you can." It's all about what you want to *do* with Morgan. So, for example, Vaike!Yarne!Morgan has absolutely monstrous Str (+10!), while Ricken!Laurent!Morgan has monstrous Mag (again, +10). If you go with those lineages, your male Morgan will be excellent for physical or magical damage, respectively. Determine what you'd like Morgan to focus on first, then figure out what the best pairing to achieve that end would be. In general, you want to stack as many modifiers together as possible.

Let's say you want a female Morgan with sky-high Spd and Skl. Your Avatar should thus take +Spd/-Def (arguably the "most optimal" mod choice, as it has no meaningful weaknesses *and* good synergy), and wants to marry a 2nd-gen girl with high Spd and Skl. The obvious stand-out candidate is Severa, as she has the best or co-best in both stats with nearly any father, and LQ!Severa is *the* best choice for a Skl/Spd mother, bar none. LQ!Severa!Morgan has a whopping 8 Skl, 10 Spd, making her by far the fastest unit you can field, while still having positive Str (+2) *and* positive Lck (+1). But you could totally do a completely different FMorgan and end up with an entirely different choice (perhaps a mag-focused FMorgan, which points to Ricken!Noire or, possibly better, Maribelle!Lucina for her mother). It's all about finding the tradeoffs and exploring the consequences of particular choices (e.g. Ricken!Noire may be underpowered because it means Noire won't get GF, so all she can do is support the Avatar).

Also, while I know you said you have "nothing to say" about Kellam!Yarne...you really should go for Virion!Yarne instead, if you have any choice in the matter. Kellam neither gives Yarne the accuracy bonus he wants, nor any particularly useful modifiers other than slightly improved Str. I've noticed that a lot of people seem to neglect Virion, which is odd because he's a perfectly cromulent father, especially for children that want +20 Hit or decent Spd/Skl when Lon'qu is already taken. Yarne is both of those things, since he makes a fine Berserker by himself, and gobbles up that +20 hit eagerly. And...where is Vaike? He's an excellent father purely for his mods, and for passing down Berserker (or one of its skills) to his child. Surely you could use Vaike instead of either Kellam or Fred. Vaike!Nah is one of the best things you can do with her (better classes, better inheritances, AND better mods), whereas Fred!Nah is more "well, I have no other choices."

Stahl!Gerome is...not as good as you seem to think. Gerome is best used as a Berserker support, but he doesn't *have* Berserker in his kit naturally--he has to inherit it from his father. Since, as you've said, Gregor is almost always already taken for Laurent, that means you need Henry or Vaike for his father. Stahl does offer Sniper, which is always adequate but that's not the same as "best," as others already said. BK or Bowfaire Warrior are fine uses for Stahl!Gerome, though, so don't take this as saying he's bad. He's just not the best. As others have noted, tanking is not viable in Apo, and Apo is the only thing this thread focuses on. Outside of Apo, damn near *everything* is viable if you work hard enough for it, so it's not really pertinent.

Anyway, to actually review the pairs you've listed, in order:
Good, Good, Fair, Fair, Great, Good, Great, Fair, Horrible, Great, Great, Bad. You should pull both Kellam and Fred and sub in Virion and Vaike, respectively.

 

 

These sound like really good ideas, but for severa, my main goal was to hit 75 speed with her to double apo anna. She already has vengeance and  galeforce all on her own, meaning she just need vantage to be able to form the VV combo. My line of thinking with stalh!severa was that this provides me a lesser blow to my defenses, while still being able to hit that benchmark of 75 speed given rally's, tonics, the pair up with a beserker or similar physical support class, etc. stahl also gives her access to the myrmidon line, thus giving her access to vantage. 

I planned on classing Morgan and Lucina into magical classes, just don't know who they will be paired up with yet.

 

i really was questioning myself with the pairing I put for Nowi, I just really didn't know who should father Nah, so I'll go with vaike for a good support role.

 

i wasn't going off of support convo's, so I will switch Ricken and libra's roles.

how exactly does lon'qu fair over Frederick for inigo's father, as you didn't really seem to go over him. Wouldn't the higher speed from lon'qu be more beneficial than what Frederick gives?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rate my Apo team:

Chorm x F!Robin (+Mag/-Str)

Lissa x Libra

Sumia x Henry

Cordelia x Ricken

Maribelle x Virion

Owain x Severa

Cynthia x Morgan

Lucina x Brady

Staffbot M!Robin (+Mag/-Str) Sage

 

And that's about it I think.  I may be inclined to do the other child units but I'm not really sure if I want to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm thinking about making a thread that goes over each and every paring in the game, and having people vote on them. I know that threads like this exist already, but all the ones I've seen are at least a year old, and having older or inconsistent information can be very frustrating when trying to optimize. Is anyone interested? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, KiwiScribble said:

I'm thinking about making a thread that goes over each and every paring in the game, and having people vote on them. I know that threads like this exist already, but all the ones I've seen are at least a year old, and having older or inconsistent information can be very frustrating when trying to optimize. Is anyone interested? 

That sounds like a really good idea. I would be very willing to help out with it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/1/2017 at 8:01 AM, TheSilentChloey said:

Rate my Apo team:

Chorm x F!Robin (+Mag/-Str)

Lissa x Libra

Sumia x Henry

Cordelia x Ricken

Maribelle x Virion

Owain x Severa

Cynthia x Morgan

Lucina x Brady

Staffbot M!Robin (+Mag/-Str) Sage

 

And that's about it I think.  I may be inclined to do the other child units but I'm not really sure if I want to.

Anyone?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, TheSilentChloey said:

Anyone?

Are the first generation pairings you listed going into battle on Apotheosis?

also, imo a staffbot does a better job as a valkyrie rather than a sage due to more movement. You can compensate for the lower magic by equipping valflame, tomefair, AL + 2, Magic + 2, and limit breaker. This leads to an extra 12 spaces of range for rescue staffs/fortify, which is more than sufficient IMO. You did list a male robin as a staffbot but if you can, I would swtch it to a female character for Valkyrie.

do you have any particular skill sets you were going with for your team, and what are their classes going to be?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

Are the first generation pairings you listed going into battle on Apotheosis?

also, imo a staffbot does a better job as a valkyrie rather than a sage due to more movement. You can compensate for the lower magic by equipping valflame, tomefair, AL + 2, Magic + 2, and limit breaker. This leads to an extra 12 spaces of range for rescue staffs/fortify, which is more than sufficient IMO. You did list a male robin as a staffbot but if you can, I would swtch it to a female character for Valkyrie.

do you have any particular skill sets you were going with for your team, and what are their classes going to be?

 

I thought that was pretty obvious that they would be going into battle.

 

As for the staffbot M!Robin will have the boots in his file so he will most certainly have the range needed.  So no real problems there.  Also he'll likely be running LB/TF/Armsthrift/Ignus/Astra

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 since  M!robin a staffbot, all he is going to be doing is using staffs,  there's no point in astra and ignus, since you don't want him to go on the offensive. You would be better off fitting in skills to raise your magic stat higher so your fortify/goddess/rescue staves can have higher range.

The reason I asked about the parents your putting into battle is that the children characters perform better than the parents pretty much most, if not all of the time and they also have greater class/skill options than their parents, mainly access to galeforce, which is a huge asset on Apotheosis. 

 

What are your parent pairings for the children characters you are using and what classes did you plan to have the children in, as that would influence who they would be paired with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Females are more desirable as staff bots because they get access to Falcon or Valk. Their skill sets are going to be auras and mag boosts, but valks will take acrobat. Their skill slots aren't in demand, so it's a matter of preference between longer rescue range vs mobility around specific terrain like the water or mountain. There aren't any 8 Mov male staffers (and I'd rank Mov to be more important than staff range). For example, the extra mag and mov matters when doing certain movements like wave 4 against the dark fliers. I also wouldn't recommend using boots on a bot, but rather on a unit the bot will rescue. Something like hex/anathema/mov+1/filler/filler is pretty much cookie cutter. Filler can be acrobat and mag boosters (lb, mag+2, as+2...). The parents are fine, but they don't always have the class pool and stats that children have.

I actually like a higher bot:combat ratio. If you did cut the parents, you'd end up with something like 11 bots (2 rally/9 rescue).

Interestingly enough, all 4 combat pairs have an option for a Sniper, so you also have plenty of utility even in the combat slots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Vascela said:

Females are more desirable as staff bots because they get access to Falcon or Valk. Their skill sets are going to be auras and mag boosts, but valks will take acrobat. Their skill slots aren't in demand, so it's a matter of preference between longer rescue range vs mobility around specific terrain like the water or mountain. There aren't any 8 Mov male staffers (and I'd rank Mov to be more important than staff range). For example, the extra mag and mov matters when doing certain movements like wave 4 against the dark fliers. I also wouldn't recommend using boots on a bot, but rather on a unit the bot will rescue. Something like hex/anathema/mov+1/filler/filler is pretty much cookie cutter. Filler can be acrobat and mag boosters (lb, mag+2, as+2...). The parents are fine, but they don't always have the class pool and stats that children have.

I actually like a higher bot:combat ratio. If you did cut the parents, you'd end up with something like 11 bots (2 rally/9 rescue).

Interestingly enough, all 4 combat pairs have an option for a Sniper, so you also have plenty of utility even in the combat slots.

I'm actually debating whether or not to add to the combat pairs.  I suppose that I could always add an F!Robin/extra unit for mobility purposes.  Plus I am adding the M!Robin from another save that he's already had the boots used on him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sortof related. With Gaius being Noire's father, and the opportunity to give her a skill she couldn't otherwise have from the fighter class line, assuming I use Noire as a hyper-mobile assassin/bowknight/sniper should I get her Sol, or Counter?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gaius should pass Sol to Noire for easy grinding or being a solid skill in-game. Counter is a near-useless skill for the player. You don't want your units being hit by the enemy and deflecting adjacent damage that could accumulate and cause a unit's death, unless you like resetting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What's the best skill set for Vaike!Nah on a min/max run both for the main game and apo?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello. I'd like to hear some opinions on a playthrough I want to start soon.

  • Chrom/Olivia: a great physical Lucina and Rightful King Inigo.
  • Frederick/Lissa: a balanced Owain with PavGis and Luna.
  • Virion/Maribelle: because Brady only wants mods. The only letdown would be the defense (-4)...
  • Stahl/Cherche: with access to Luna, and and an overall excellent Gerome.
  • Vaike/Nowi. I think it makes one of the best Nahs?
  • Lon'qu/Panne: maybe Kellam would be more adequate here since he has Luna, but I don't intend to make Yarne anything but a hard-support.
  • Gaius/Miriel. Gregor is a great father for Laurent, but I wanted to try something new.
  • Ricken/Cordelia. Balanced Severa with Luna, best Dark Flier Severa.
  • Donnel/Tharja: Noire gets Galeforce out of the deal.
  • Libra/Sully: PavGis with Renewal and decent mods. Tanking is supposedly bad and all, but she will be paired-up with Yarne so I'm not worried about Kjelle's speed.
  • Henry/Sumia: for the best Dark Flier, crit-happy Cynthia.
  • Inigo/FeMU (+Mag/-Res): I know that the boon/bane aren't optimal since Inigo is built for physical, but I like them for their balance. Morgan will be a good mixed unit.

I tried to give Luna to as many children as I could, but I also didn't want to make pairings I completely disliked support-wise...

Thoughts?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Katsuri said:

Hello. I'd like to hear some opinions on a playthrough I want to start soon.

  • Chrom/Olivia: a great physical Lucina and Rightful King Inigo.
  • Frederick/Lissa: a balanced Owain with PavGis and Luna.
  • Virion/Maribelle: because Brady only wants mods. The only letdown would be the defense (-4)...
  • Stahl/Cherche: with access to Luna, and and an overall excellent Gerome.
  • Vaike/Nowi. I think it makes one of the best Nahs?
  • Lon'qu/Panne: maybe Kellam would be more adequate here since he has Luna, but I don't intend to make Yarne anything but a hard-support.
  • Gaius/Miriel. Gregor is a great father for Laurent, but I wanted to try something new.
  • Ricken/Cordelia. Balanced Severa with Luna, best Dark Flier Severa.
  • Donnel/Tharja: Noire gets Galeforce out of the deal.
  • Libra/Sully: PavGis with Renewal and decent mods. Tanking is supposedly bad and all, but she will be paired-up with Yarne so I'm not worried about Kjelle's speed.
  • Henry/Sumia: for the best Dark Flier, crit-happy Cynthia.
  • Inigo/FeMU (+Mag/-Res): I know that the boon/bane aren't optimal since Inigo is built for physical, but I like them for their balance. Morgan will be a good mixed unit.

I tried to give Luna to as many children as I could, but I also didn't want to make pairings I completely disliked support-wise...

Thoughts?

 

 

Typically the skill you want to give as many children as possible is Galeforce, not Luna. This is why Gaius and Donnel are sought after fathers, as they can pass galeforce to females that normally can't get it. I use Gaius!Noire and Donnel!Sully and they work out quite well. this is also why Yarne and Gerome are typically relegated to supporting, because they have no galeforce access.

The children units also fair better more socialized in their stats, especially Morgan if your making a third generation Morgan. 

What is your endgoal goal for this playthrough, if it's just to make it to the end of the game, your pairings can be pretty flexible unless it's like Lunatic plus mode. If your goal is to beat Apotheosis PavGis and tanking is not a very good strategy, because you'll generally be slower and unable to double the enemy units, doing very little damage to them while they are able to double you, doing more damage to you. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't really intend as of now to try secret route Apo; even if I did normal Apo with pairs like Frederick!Owain and Donnel!Severa before. I'm just trying to be as optimal as I can with the children, while also keeping pairings that I like. I know how OP Galeforce is, but I'd rather not pair Gaius with Nowi, Sully or Tharja...

Luna is a must proc skill though, along with Ignis and the Vantage-Vengeance duo; which is why I tried to give it to as many as I could.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Ack, I double-posted.

Edited by Katsuri
sorry for the double-post, I don't know how to delete this one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Then do the pairings you want, you're only hurting yourself with Frederick!Owain and Gaius!Laurent lol. In a game where you can tank Hard and Lunatic with Avatar's Nosferatu while Lunatic+ and Secret Route Apotheosis require aggressive strategies around Avatar and Galeforce, "Pavgis" and Renewal is suboptimal!

And for the last time, Vengeance is a fine skill by itself. You don't need Vantage. Look up VVDS+ or the original thread about VVDS+ before going on how kids need Vantage and Vengeance. And only the kids with Galeforce need Luna or Vengeance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.