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1 hour ago, soly said:

I'm gonna do it, I'm actually gonna do it... this is a bad idea, but it will be so great...

I've seen other people in this thread swear by Dark Knight Gaius!Noire for being able to pull out a Levin Sword for Thronezerker (because swords don't trigger aegis and he has low resistance) so give it a try and feel free to tell us how it goes in a month or two once your team is ground up and ready. If you're running LB and Agg with Swordfaire on a hard support I think you can make Trickster useful, but it just isn't normally as good as other classes.

 

10 hours ago, Vascela said:

 I can only guess that LB and Agg are going to pull more weight than you think (because they add +10 or 20 Atk depending on the gender). That fire power is something I can't tie with my own experiences.

FWIW aggressor and Limit Breaker are only +5 damage per attack on a support (due to half damage from support and half damage from dragonskin) and LB is + 5 damage on a lead (thanks dragonskin). Granted in most runs with Braves that hit all 12 strikes that's 60 damage before you start looking into weapon mights and character stats. LB, Aggressor and Braves make it extremely easy to kill a man and they generally push you to the point where you are just about guaranteed to kill enemies before they can counter attack. If you can get a Sniper up to 100% dual strike you can generally kill anything from 3 range with a Longbow.

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On 10/21/2017 at 10:29 PM, soly said:

If you haven't locked in Fred!Yarne then Virion!Yarne is a solid option. Not using Stahl is a bit of a shame, but whatever. Virion!Gerome is also more suited to going support Sage than Stahl!Gerome due to... a single point improvement in magic. Your team composition looks extremely magic-heavy and for some reason Gerome is always getting pushed towards the caster girls so it might not be a terrible idea anyway.

From your base setup, I don't think [email protected] Flier x [email protected] Warrior is doing that much. If you do [email protected] that might work out better for you there. In any case it looks like you're giving Henry!Cynthia a Sage or a Gerome who can go to Sage so she's going to be more or less the same in all compositions.

Regarding the first setup, Chrom!Brady x Henry!Cynthia will stomp units well enough but it feels like a bit of a waste of speed. Brady in particular reaches 74 speed with this setup which is rather a shame - I personally might trade out his Tomefaire to All Stats +2 depending on how much I needed that extra unit at 75 speed to bring down NS and Anna. Your units don't look particularly fast in general so this is probably something I would do if I were you, yes.

[email protected] reaches 69 speed with [email protected] Warrior in her pocket and is well suited to dealing with all kinds of mooks, especially Nightmare Sniper's nightmare minions with Counter/Luna, but not having a Sage support means she's no longer as well equipped to deal with the Wave 4 Berserker boss, which is the whole point of hitting 69 Speed. Again, Virion!Gerome has a usable support Sage setup; Noire loses his 5 Str pairup but I'm inclined to say this is a good option anyway and you can always go back to Bowfaire Warrior if you don't like it.

The second setup... Maribelle!Lucina!Morgan probably wants Mag/Def or Spe/Def. In either case I'm not convinced she wants Gerome in Bowfaire Warrior, which is Virion!Gerome's flagship set. She'll do decently if he goes Sage.

Henry!Cynthia x Gregor!Laurent is perfectly fine.

 

tl;dr you have so many caster- and Aegis-hitting units (I think only Yarne x Kjelle and Severa hit Pavise with Str weapons) that [email protected] will probably work out fine for you here and I definitely recommend you do Virion!Gerome over Stahl (give him to Panne if she's still free). Under that assumption all your setups should be fine. I'm personally not a fan of giving him Warrior in any of these cases (Mag lead x Physical support runs into all sorts of enemy targeting issues) but they'll be decent skirmishers. That said keep an eye out for enemies with Aegis+ because 3/4 of your units hit Aegis; if Severa or Kjelle aren't nearby you might be in trouble.

 

From what I have observed I do tend to lean on magic units more (because they're ranged units like Snipers).  I'm not a fan of bows to be honest.  However I am also using my Apo team for story purposes as well, so there is that to consider.  Plus I'm sure that there will be some rally spectrum bots for the purpose of getting their speed up and speed tonics as well (since that is what I am planing to do).  The other thing is that I have a DEF heavy sorc that I could use for fun...but we'd have to see about that.

 

Or alternatively I could just use my NM team, but they are far from optimal...

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Hi, I'd like to get some feedback or thoughts on these pairings. The only married pairs for now are Chrom/Olivia, Ricken/Cordelia and Vaike/Nowi. I bolded the ones I want to keep.

 

Chrom!Inigo / FeMU (+Mag/-Res, although it's not really optimal for Morgan but he gets decent mods out of it)

Henry!Owain / Ricken!Severa

Lon'qu!Brady / Gaius!Cynthia

Stahl!Gerome / Olivia!Lucina

Kellam or Virion!Yarne / Kjelle

Frederick!Laurent / Vaike!Nah

Chrom!Inigo!Morgan / Donnel!Noire

 

I'm not sure of what to do with Kjelle, since I like Virion!Kjelle but I've heard both good and bad things about her, same for Gregor!Kjelle. I didn't want to leave Henry unpaired so he took the priority over using Libra.

Edited by Katsuri

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Since I'm bringing my best essay game, here's a tl;dr for you:

Spoiler

Chrom!Inigo / FeMU (+Mag/-Res) Avatar finish in Grandmaster; Inigo in any of his good combat classes. Next playthrough, consider planning your Asset and Flaw around your spouse (and their parents, if applicable) - partially so that you don't end up mixing +Mag avatar with Physical classes only!Inigo, and partially so that Morgan doesn't get weird mods as we'll see shortly - a Speed asset or a flaw that didn't decrease Speed, like -Lck, would open up Morgan's options further.

Lon'qu!Brady / Ricken!Severa LQ!Brady x Dark Flier gets fast enough to be one of your major bosskillers. Severa will skirmish solidly.

Libra!Laurent / Gaius!Cynthia Gaius!Cynthia has massive opportunity cost, but she's good and fast enough to be your other bosskiller. Sage Laurent hard support.

Stahl!Gerome / Olivia!Lucina Lucina in any good combat class (recommend Bow Knight) x Bowfaire Warrior Gerome works just fine.

Virion!Yarne / Donnel!Kjelle Kjelle in Lancefaire Wyvern Lord backed by +hit Berserker Yarne is a pretty classic setup.

Henry!Owain / Gregor!Noire Classic Sniper x Sage, but the Sniper doesn't have Galeforce.

Chrom!Inigo!Morgan / Vaike!Nah Morgan is versatile, but I would do Sniper x Axefaire General, or run All Stats +2 over Bowfaire for Morgan and do 75 Speed Sniper x Axefaire Hero. Make sure Nah inherits Axefaire.

Interesting setup. Let's have a gander at it. Before we begin proper, though, you need to be aware that in absence of a given goal (what are you optimising your pairs for?) we're going to assume no-holds-barred Apotheosis secret route (the harder version of the final and hardest DLC map in the game, with... well, no holds barred and everything available to you). If you want an in-game setup or something, you need to inform us.

I've actually managed to preserve every bolded pair, but this comes at a certain optimisation cost (there are good reasons not to do Gaius!Cynthia, and they're named Kjelle and Noire). That said, in no-holds-barred Apotheosis SR you're still going to be fine so long as you play smart. If you start trying to do challenge runs, you may run into issues. If I could ignore everything that isn't already locked in, you can be certain that my recommendations would probably look almost completely different (I'd be using Gaius!Noire and Henry!Cynthia meta, push +Mag Avatar to Lon'qu!Laurent, all the usual complete optimisation stuff). But this will work decently.

So Mag/Res Avatar is a very strange creature - +Mag offers bonuses to Mag, Spe and Res, and -Res has penalties to those same three stats, so you end up with an Avatar which doesn't have as clearly defined strengths as you'd normally want (your mods are 3 Mag, 1 Spe and -1 Res, where a Mag/Def Avatar will have 4 Mag, 2 Spe, -1 Lck, -3 Def and 1 Res). One point here and there is unlikely to matter much, though, and since you already have this setup we'll carry on with it. Just be aware next time you start up a save file that -Def is the recommended flaw for Apotheosis optimisation at the cost of a significantly weaker Enemy Phase in the main story, followed by -Lck which hurts your offense almost negligibly (-1 Str and -1 Mag) but doesn't touch Speed and shreds the main story itself.

Chrom!Inigo x Avatar (Mag/Res)...

Spoiler

...is a very interesting setup and you appear to like the pairing since Morgan is bolded, so we'll try to work around it. Individually they're solid units - best physical Inigo, and the Avatar - but one is a physical unit (Inigo has no caster classes) and one has a strong caster bias (+Mag Avatar is +Mag). Because of this I'm going to recommend that Avatar finishes in Grandmaster which offers +Str, +Skl, +Spe pair-up bonuses that Inigo will appreciate greatly. Unfortunately none of Inigo's lead classes are quite fast enough to take significant advantage of Avatar's +Spe pair bonus, and none of them are particularly very slow either, so Inigo's finishing class shouldn't be too important here, nearly anything should work decently and he has the faires to support anything he wants to finish in: Axefaire, Swordfaire and Bowfaire to complement his Hero, Assassin, Bow Knight, Sniper, Warrior, Paladin finisher classes. Avatar can also opt to forego her caster bias and finish in a physical class instead, to take advantage of what will probably be +Str pair up bonuses. There's a lot of versatility here and while this pair is never going to be really exceptional they will be perfectly capable.

Whoo, Gaius!Cynthia. No one ever really does Gaius!Cynthia. As a unit, she's great, but Gaius passes Pegasus Knight to his daughters. Hence any potential daughters of his who do not already have Peg Knight are able to inherit it (Kjelle, Noire, Nah). That's important because Peg Knight offers access to Galeforce, considered one of the best skills in the game. If you're not overly attached to the idea of Gaius!Cynthia, then give Henry to Cynthia, give Gaius to Noire and give Donnel to Kjelle (so that Kjelle and Noire inherit Pegasus to get Galeforce). If you are (I see this is bolded), we can still work around it decently, but if you ever decide to do challenge runs on this save you may be in for a harder time.

Spoiler

+6 Spe makes Gaius!Cynthia one of the fastest units in the game, and to capitalise on this we'll give her a caster class to deal with the biggest baddies in Apotheosis Secret Route who are all weaker to magic. Sage or Dark Flier are your major options; Dark Flier is preferred for mobility. Cynthia is going to be one of your designated bosskillers because of her blistering speed, so we want to give her a hard support husband, i.e. not Brady. Rather, Laurent is the strongest hard support caster boy you can get. Normally he'd be able to take nearly any dad, but we want to crank up his combat ability, so don't give him Frederick (who kills his magic for no reason). Gregor!Laurent is usually recommended (and probably the best overall Laurent) as he's able to perform basically every good support build, but I'm inclined to favour Libra or Henry here who have +2 Mag over Gregor (also I'm giving Gregor to someone else). The extra Mag is likely to be inconsequential, of course, and Libra and Henry are quite in demand (usually both Gerome and Chrom-less Cynthia really, really want Henry) In this case we can give him Libra as we're assuming Gaius!Cynthia, and you seem to prefer Henry!Owain.

If you can't get them for Laurent, Gregor is fine, or any neutral Mag father (Virion, Lon'qu, and even worst dad Kellam). Cynthia should be aiming to hit a very specific speed tier, so the skillset she wants to carry is probably Limit Breaker/Galeforce/Luna/Astra/All Stats +2; AS+2 is used to crank her speed up to 75 after all bonuses are factored in - just enough to double the meanest Apotheosis bosses (Wave 2 Sniper and the overall map boss in Wave 5).

Ricken!Severa...

Spoiler

...is another interesting creature that isn't often recommended. It's probably Severa's strongest caster setup, but Severa is usually a highly capable physical unit. Regardless, her natural Skl and Spe means this can work well enough (though it's not going to be as awesome a caster as the likes of Chrom!Cynthia and LQ!Brady). Her major options are again Sage and Dark Flier; again Dark Flier is preferred for mobility (it also gives +Speed pair up bonuses which will be important soon). As a caster she wants a caster husband, so if you want to ship her with Owain you'll be fine... but in this case, I would recommend you give her Brady. Lon'qu Brady is naturally fast; backed by Severa's +Spe pair up, he's fast enough to hit 75 speed, doubling the fastest bosses in Apotheosis. Along with Gaius!Cynthia, Brady is going to be one of your important bosskillers.

Olivia!Lucina, and Stahl!Gerome...

Spoiler

Lucina is both the best lead and one of the best hard supports in the game, however she can't be both at the same time. Refer to previous page as to reasoning. Gerome is always a hard support, so let's do that. Stahl!Gerome doesn't get Berserker access, but he still has his secondary Bowfaire Warrior set and can pull Swordfaire Hero in an emergency if his wife needs the speed. Unfortunately Olivia!Lucina has some pretty strange speed tiers - she's a single point short of 69 Spe Sniper x Warrior and doesn't have room to carry All Stats +2, but this isn't that important because the highest speed enemies in Apotheosis are very resilient to physical attacks. You can finish Lucina in nearly any class here and she'll still be fine; just stay away from Great Knight and Falcoknight. I'm inclined to favour Bow Knight which has impressive mobility, PavGis control and can double Thronie with Gerome in her pocket in a pinch. Low Str is offset somewhat by Warrior's +Str and high-powered 100% Dual Strikes, as well as Aether/Luna procstacking. But nearly anything will work (Assassin, Great Lord, Paladin are the main options). They'll be fine.

Be aware that Henry!Gerome is generally preferred as Henry passes both the best hard support male class (Berserker) and a way to remedy Berserker's low accuracy (Hex and Anathema from Dark Mage). If you're not too attached to the notion of Stahl!Gerome, and Henry is free (eg. you stuck with Gaius!Cynthia and went for Libra!Owain) strongly consider this setup... although Lucina is very unlikely to hit 75 Speed, and physical Lucina doesn't care that much anyway.

Kjelle...

Spoiler

...gets Astra, Luna, Swordfaire, Paladin, Wyvern Lord, Assassin from her mother. That's almost everything she could ever want. She wants either Gaius or Donnel as her dad, to get Galeforce and Lancefaire from Pegasus class line. There are pretty much no exceptions here - nearly every other dad is going to be subpar on her because she doesn't get anything particularly new. Donnel!Kjelle runs a very potent Wyvern Lord set (Lancefaire, Astra, Luna, Galeforce, Limit Breaker) and works well with Virion!Varne as her support. Yarne naturally has Berserker, and Virion's Archer class line passes Prescience and Hit+20. Good enough for him. Yarne's secondary options are a Dark Mage dad (Libra or Henry) to pass Hex and Anathema.

Noire and Owain...

Spoiler

Noire ideally wants Gaius who passes her Galeforce, but she actually has a number of options without him - enough that she doesn't always want Donnel, who's the other Galedad. Major options are doubling down on her Sniper optimisation with Vaike or Lon'qu; leveraging her naturally high Mag with a Tomefaire dad (Virion or Libra as Ricken usually isn't free); or just turning her into a hard support.

As a general rule you want all your combat pairs to have at least one unit with Galeforce, and if you're carrying Gaius!Cynthia and Donnel!Kjelle, then Noire (and Nah) are Galeforceless. Thankfully we still have Owain who should aim to finish in Sage.

Owain's lost his major Luna dad (Ricken), so to get a proc, he usually wants Libra or Henry who pass Vengeance. Libra is generally preferred as the resulting Owain is about the same, but Henry is more in demand by other kids. Right now, however, he's still free, so have at thee, Henry. Owain's other options are Stahl who makes the best physical Owain, and Kellam who will ruin a bunch of his stats in exchange for Luna access. Kellam is reviled as the game's worst dad because of his uninspiring class and modifier passdowns that basically no kid wants (definitely don't give him to Yarne), but even a Kellam!Owain will be able to skirmish with the games' minions.

Behind him, we can carry a hard support Noire in Sage, but our Tomefaire dads are mostly gone and Henry!Owain is slow anyway, so let's take the opportunity to load a Sniper x Sage pair. Since Vaike is gone... let's give Noire Gregor. Gregor!Noire is slightly slow, but as she doesn't get Galeforce, she can remedy her speed slightly with All Stats +2, giving her just enough speed to double Thronie when backed by Owain. The set here... we're looking at Limit Breaker/Bowfaire/Luna/Astra/All Stats +2. This is basically a Sniper Gaius!Noire without Galeforce. She's capable enough but misses her other dads. If you're so inclined, you can drop Astra to carry Armsthrift which opens up regular use of the powerful Double Bow Regalia weapon without needing to farm Infinite Regalia. I personally wouldn't (Vaike!Noire does this better), but it's up to you.

That leaves us with Morgan... to be precise, Chrom!Inigo!Morgan and his wife Vaike!Nah (I managed to get you one of Nah's few amazing support sets!).

Spoiler

Morgan's mods are a little scattered, not excelling at any single thing in particular, but nothing we can't work with; +4 Spe means he's quite fast and he does have +4 Mag over +2 Str so there's a slight magical bias. The problem is Vaike!Nah, who is an exceptional female physical support to a Galeboy - if she weren't already locked to Vaike, I'd have recommended you pull Henry to give to Nah, finish in Valkyrie, and give her to Lon'qu!Brady as a hard support.

Morgan can pull off a 75 Spe Sage set with Nah's Axefaire Hero, but Sage x Physical Support runs into all sorts of targeting issues against bosses that he doesn't really like. Unfortunately, Morgan is also a single point of speed short of 5 Spe, which locks him out of 75 Speed Sniper x +3 Speed support (again, Nah's Axefaire Hero). You can opt to carry All Stats +2 over Bowfaire to remedy this, but 75 Spe Sniper x Physical is only really amazing against the wave 5 boss. It's up to you if you think that's worth it.

I would personally probably do Sniper x Axefaire General (make sure Nah inherits Axefaire from Vaike); Morgan's set being Limit Breaker/Bowfaire/Aggressor/Ignis or Luna/Galeforce.

 

Edited by soly

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I've had a bit more of a think about my HM Apo team and this is what I have come up with.  I'm bolding the units who's parents are already S-Supported and using italics for the parents that I am definitely doing.

 

Donnel!Kjelle x Virion!Gerome

Lon'qu!Owain x Vaike!Severa

Chrom!Brady x Henry!Cynthia

Gaius!Noire x Frederick!Yarne

Stahl!Inigo x Libra!Nah

Maribelle!Lucina x M!Robin

Lucina!Morgan x Gregor!Laurent

I have yet to decide classes etc likely going to use dlc, rallies, tonics etc to clear Apo.  I did do a max stat mod check so there is that...

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4 hours ago, TheSilentChloey said:

Donnel!Kjelle x Virion!Gerome

Lon'qu!Owain x Vaike!Severa

Chrom!Brady x Henry!Cynthia

Gaius!Noire x Frederick!Yarne

Stahl!Inigo x Libra!Nah

Maribelle!Lucina x M!Robin

Lucina!Morgan x Gregor!Laurent

Donnel!Kjelle enjoys getting +Speed on her pair up, which Virion!Gerome doesn't offer. I'd consider trading Gerome to Noire, who doesn't mind losing Berseker's +Speed unless she's running All Stats +2 (which I assume she isn't). Kjelle gets Yarne's +Speed Berserker pair, Noire doesn't care, everyone's happy. If for some reason you really want Noire as a 75 Speed Sniper, she can pull this off with Yarne - drop Bowfaire for All Stats +2. In that case Gerome stays with Kjelle - the loss of speed hurts a bit, but she'll still wipe the floor with mooks. You can give Kjelle a faster combat class (Swordfaire Hero or Lancefaire Paladin) instead of Lancefaire Wyvern to compensate, or if you don't envision her dealing with anything but mooks, keep her in Wyvern Lord. Alternatively you can give her Stahl!Inigo, which works too, though you'd have to reshuffle your pairs a bit - find a Valkyrie dad for Nah (Gregor; Henry is better but he's needed by Cynthia) and push her to Brady with All Stats +2, then give Tomefaire Sage Gerome to Cynthia, something like that.

Speaking of Yarne, I'd try to get him an Archer dad (for Hit+20 and Prescience) or a Dark Mage dad (for Hex and Anathema). Ricken is somehow free and passes Archer, so he's a good pick despite his -Str mod. Alternatively, give him Libra, who doesn't take the Str penalty. Nah supporting Inigo doesn't want Libra as her dad, no physical -Faires hurts her.

I really want to know what your Owain build is and how he's complementing Severa. For that matter, I also want to know Severa's build. She's very fast as Axefaire Hero, but not enough to take a +0 Spe pair up and still hit 75 speed. Axefaire General suffers from mobility issues but it exists and actually works with the right pair up (which I believe Owain is not).

Brady x Cynthia is fine. He's going to be one of your faster units so it might not be too bad to give him All Stats +2 over his Tomefaire to hit 75 Speed (we've already discussed that Maribelle!Lucina probably will not be hitting this same benchmark).

We've discussed Noire and Yarne already in the first couple of paragraphs.

Stahl!Inigo is a good Inigo, but he doesn't want Libra!Nah because she doesn't get any physical -faires to support him with in a physical class. A Berserker dad who can pass her Axefaire is a fantastic first choice - I'd give Gregor to Nah and Libra to Laurent. Depending on speed (I don't remember how fast Stahl!Inigo is), Nah can finish in Axefaire Hero (if he really needs the speed) or Wyvern Lord (if he doesn't need the speed).

Lucina x Robin... you probably want Robin in Sage here IMO. Lucina in Dark Flier or Sage. They're fine.

Morgan herself isn't quite quick enough to reach for 75 Speed either, so give her any caster class and she's fine. Gregor!Laurent is great in all incarnations but Laurent works well enough with someone like Libra as his dad so if you need Gregor's genes for someone else (Nah) then you can give him Libra or even Ricken for a bit more Mag.

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8 hours ago, soly said:

Donnel!Kjelle enjoys getting +Speed on her pair up, which Virion!Gerome doesn't offer. I'd consider trading Gerome to Noire, who doesn't mind losing Berseker's +Speed unless she's running All Stats +2 (which I assume she isn't). Kjelle gets Yarne's +Speed Berserker pair, Noire doesn't care, everyone's happy. If for some reason you really want Noire as a 75 Speed Sniper, she can pull this off with Yarne - drop Bowfaire for All Stats +2. In that case Gerome stays with Kjelle - the loss of speed hurts a bit, but she'll still wipe the floor with mooks. You can give Kjelle a faster combat class (Swordfaire Hero or Lancefaire Paladin) instead of Lancefaire Wyvern to compensate, or if you don't envision her dealing with anything but mooks, keep her in Wyvern Lord. Alternatively you can give her Stahl!Inigo, which works too, though you'd have to reshuffle your pairs a bit - find a Valkyrie dad for Nah (Gregor; Henry is better but he's needed by Cynthia) and push her to Brady with All Stats +2, then give Tomefaire Sage Gerome to Cynthia, something like that.

Speaking of Yarne, I'd try to get him an Archer dad (for Hit+20 and Prescience) or a Dark Mage dad (for Hex and Anathema). Ricken is somehow free and passes Archer, so he's a good pick despite his -Str mod. Alternatively, give him Libra, who doesn't take the Str penalty. Nah supporting Inigo doesn't want Libra as her dad, no physical -Faires hurts her.

I really want to know what your Owain build is and how he's complementing Severa. For that matter, I also want to know Severa's build. She's very fast as Axefaire Hero, but not enough to take a +0 Spe pair up and still hit 75 speed. Axefaire General suffers from mobility issues but it exists and actually works with the right pair up (which I believe Owain is not).

Brady x Cynthia is fine. He's going to be one of your faster units so it might not be too bad to give him All Stats +2 over his Tomefaire to hit 75 Speed (we've already discussed that Maribelle!Lucina probably will not be hitting this same benchmark).

We've discussed Noire and Yarne already in the first couple of paragraphs.

Stahl!Inigo is a good Inigo, but he doesn't want Libra!Nah because she doesn't get any physical -faires to support him with in a physical class. A Berserker dad who can pass her Axefaire is a fantastic first choice - I'd give Gregor to Nah and Libra to Laurent. Depending on speed (I don't remember how fast Stahl!Inigo is), Nah can finish in Axefaire Hero (if he really needs the speed) or Wyvern Lord (if he doesn't need the speed).

Lucina x Robin... you probably want Robin in Sage here IMO. Lucina in Dark Flier or Sage. They're fine.

Morgan herself isn't quite quick enough to reach for 75 Speed either, so give her any caster class and she's fine. Gregor!Laurent is great in all incarnations but Laurent works well enough with someone like Libra as his dad so if you need Gregor's genes for someone else (Nah) then you can give him Libra or even Ricken for a bit more Mag.

 

I'm pretty sure that I mentioned that these pairings are not just for clearing Apo they are also meant to be story pairings as well because I am going to use them for that.  Although at this point I haven't even hooked up most of the parents save for Lucina, Brady and Owain's parents, which is the framework I'm working from.

 

I never really run AS+2 I won't need it because everyone is going to have LB which achieves more for the same task (in my mind at least).  That said I have looked into the actual bonuses myself because I want to make sure that the team meet at least 69 spd across the board with rallies tonics etc.

Since I apparently neglected to state final classes and what not, here they are taking note that I have checked them for support bonuses etc:

Donnel!Kjelle @Swordmaster LB/Galeforce/Astra/Luna/Swordfaire x Virion!Gerome @Sniper LB/DSup+/Agg/Bowfaire/Hit +20

Lon'qu!Owain @Swordmaster LB/Galeforce/Astra/Swordfaire/Agg x Vaike!Severa @Swordmaster LB/Galeforce/Astra/Luna/Swordfaire

Chrom!Brady @Sage LB/Galeforce/Luna/Tomefaire/Agg x Henry!Cynthia @Dark Flier LB/Galeforce/Luna/Tomefaire/Vengence (?)

Gaius!Noire @Sniper LB/Galeforce/Bowfaire/Vengence/Sol x Frederick!Yarne @Berserker LB/Axefaire/(AS+2)/Lancebreaker/Agg

Stahl!Inigo @Swordmaster LB/Galeforce/Luna/Agg/Astra x Libra!Nah @Sage LB/Hex/Anathema/Tomefaire/Vengence

Maribelle!Lucina @Sage LB/Galeforce/Aether/Tomefaire/DSup+ x M!Robin @GM LB/Tomefaire/Agg/Rally Spectrum/Ignus

Lucina!Morgan @Sage LB/Galeforce/Aether/Tomefaire/DSup+ x Gregor!Laurent @Sage LB/Tomefaire/DSup+/Astra/Agg

 

Edited by TheSilentChloey

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14 hours ago, TheSilentChloey said:

I have yet to decide classes etc likely going to use dlc, rallies, tonics etc to clear Apo.  I did do a max stat mod check so there is that...

 

2 hours ago, TheSilentChloey said:

Donnel!Kjelle @Swordmaster LB/Galeforce/Astra/Luna/Swordfaire x Virion!Gerome @Sniper LB/DSup+/Agg/Bowfaire/Hit +20

Lon'qu!Owain @Swordmaster LB/Galeforce/Astra/Swordfaire/Agg x Vaike!Severa @Swordmaster LB/Galeforce/Astra/Luna/Swordfaire

Chrom!Brady @Sage LB/Galeforce/Luna/Tomefaire/Agg x Henry!Cynthia @Dark Flier LB/Galeforce/Luna/Tomefaire/Vengence (?)

Gaius!Noire @Sniper LB/Galeforce/Bowfaire/Vengence/Sol x Frederick!Yarne @Berserker LB/Axefaire/(AS+2)/Lancebreaker/Agg

Stahl!Inigo @Swordmaster LB/Galeforce/Luna/Agg/Astra x Libra!Nah @Sage LB/Hex/Anathema/Tomefaire/Vengence

Maribelle!Lucina @Sage LB/Galeforce/Aether/Tomefaire/DSup+ x M!Robin @GM LB/Tomefaire/Agg/Rally Spectrum/Ignus

Lucina!Morgan @Sage LB/Galeforce/Aether/Tomefaire/DSup+ x Gregor!Laurent @Sage LB/Tomefaire/DSup+/Astra/Agg

AS+2 is much better than you give it credit for, it gives you more damage while boosting your speed. LB is the only other skill that makes that happen. Sometimes you need that speed. (In my case I need the skill for 100% dual strike and sometimes I've had to stack skill+2 and AS+2 on a support with AS+2 and defender on a lead to hit the numbers for it. AS+2 is great) Also, you could replace every Dual Support+ with AS+2 and you'll have more power and speed and have about the same hit/dodge/avoid/crit that DSup+ provides.

WRT skills and classes: Gerome and Laurent should run AS+2 over DSup+, Lucina and Morgan will get more damage out of proc stacking Aether with Luna or Ignis (depends on the class and your preference) than running DSup+. Swordmaster should generally be swapped for Assassin due to better offensive mods. M!Robin will ideally be sitting behind Lucina for the entire map so he should run LB/AGG/faire and two fillers, probably Anathema (for boosting party hit) and AS+2. People run Vengeance solo or not at all; Noire should either swap Sol for AS+2 or anathema or swap Vengeance and sol for Luna and one AS+2 and anathema, and Cythina should swap Vengeance for AS+2. You should figure out if Nah is ever coming up front and drop Vengeance accordingly, she and Inigo will both do better if they specialize, you're only dropping 2~3 damage by putting Inigo in front, and over 12 attacks with 4 chances at procs it just doesn't matter. Laurent should be full support and drop Astra for Anathema. Hex and Anathema are good skills to put on your party to boost accuracy because Berserkers and other low skill classes will run into problems hitting enemies without them.

I also want to make sure you understand how important those other things are to clearing Apo. You can get +22 to most stats by stacking rallies, tonics and LB. You probably want to pull logbook units as rallybots, probably ladies because they can get rally speed, rally heart and rally move. I generally run 2 rallybots with rally spectrum, rally heart, rally speed, rally move, and rally skill (hit rate can be a problem on a couple key enemies like Thronezerker and Anna) but the first 3 are what matters most to hit your speed threshold. If you have 2 rally bots you can have them specialize where one has rally magic and one has rally strength (though that has to be DLC Katarina or DLC Palla since the come with it) in that last slot.

Also, if you like your pairs you don't have to change the parents. You've got enough power that if you're running no holds barred you should be able to beat Apo. If it's your first time you'll probably have to run it a couple times to figure out where enemies spawn and how they reset your parties position every couple waves, but you can beat it with the party you've got.

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3 minutes ago, Bane said:

 

AS+2 is much better than you give it credit for, it gives you more damage while boosting your speed. LB is the only other skill that makes that happen. Sometimes you need that speed. (In my case I need the skill for 100% dual strike and sometimes I've had to stack skill+2 and AS+2 on a support with AS+2 and defender on a lead to hit the numbers for it. AS+2 is great) Also, you could replace every Dual Support+ with AS+2 and you'll have more power and speed and have about the same hit/dodge/avoid/crit that DSup+ provides.

WRT skills and classes: Gerome and Laurent should run AS+2 over DSup+, Lucina and Morgan will get more damage out of proc stacking Aether with Luna or Ignis (depends on the class and your preference) than running DSup+. Swordmaster should generally be swapped for Assassin due to better offensive mods. M!Robin will ideally be sitting behind Lucina for the entire map so he should run LB/AGG/faire and two fillers, probably Anathema (for boosting party hit) and AS+2. People run Vengeance solo or not at all; Noire should either swap Sol for AS+2 or anathema or swap Vengeance and sol for Luna and one AS+2 and anathema, and Cythina should swap Vengeance for AS+2. You should figure out if Nah is ever coming up front and drop Vengeance accordingly, she and Inigo will both do better if they specialize, you're only dropping 2~3 damage by putting Inigo in front, and over 12 attacks with 4 chances at procs it just doesn't matter. Laurent should be full support and drop Astra for Anathema. Hex and Anathema are good skills to put on your party to boost accuracy because Berserkers and other low skill classes will run into problems hitting enemies without them.

I also want to make sure you understand how important those other things are to clearing Apo. You can get +22 to most stats by stacking rallies, tonics and LB. You probably want to pull logbook units as rallybots, probably ladies because they can get rally speed, rally heart and rally move. I generally run 2 rallybots with rally spectrum, rally heart, rally speed, rally move, and rally skill (hit rate can be a problem on a couple key enemies like Thronezerker and Anna) but the first 3 are what matters most to hit your speed threshold. If you have 2 rally bots you can have them specialize where one has rally magic and one has rally strength (though that has to be DLC Katarina or DLC Palla since the come with it) in that last slot.

Also, if you like your pairs you don't have to change the parents. You've got enough power that if you're running no holds barred you should be able to beat Apo. If it's your first time you'll probably have to run it a couple times to figure out where enemies spawn and how they reset your parties position every couple waves, but you can beat it with the party you've got.

 

The only problem I see with assassin is that it doesn't give as much of a speed boost as swordmaster, +4 speed to +5 speed.  Which in my mind means less chance of being doubled by the enemy and more chance to double said enemy.

 

Most of the skill sets are pretty much what I can remember everyone having access to off the top of my head so if I did mix any up it's likely for that reason alone.  But yes Hex and Anathema are quite useful for the task.  Hit +20 is in the same demand if I recall correctly.

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2 minutes ago, TheSilentChloey said:

The only problem I see with assassin is that it doesn't give as much of a speed boost as swordmaster, +4 speed to +5 speed.  Which in my mind means less chance of being doubled by the enemy and more chance to double said enemy.

 

Most of the skill sets are pretty much what I can remember everyone having access to off the top of my head so if I did mix any up it's likely for that reason alone.  But yes Hex and Anathema are quite useful for the task.  Hit +20 is in the same demand if I recall correctly.

Once it's finally time rerun your calcs to see if you are 1 off from 66/69/75 and consider whether you need that 1 more speed. 66 stops you from getting doubled, 69 double all but Nightmare Sniper and Anna, and 75 doubles everything. 75 with a Sniper is the best because you can double with a Longbow and out range everything, but as long as you have a Sniper and can weaken those 2 by poking with a Longbow you should be fine. It's also not difficult to hit 66 if you're running full power so you'll probably switch to Assassin.

The accuracy boosted skills are used most by Berserkers (since their skill cap is 35, only Great Knight's 34 is lower, and Axes generally have worse hit than other weapons) to reliably hit 100% on standard enemies and you'll also want it for the high avoid enemies to make them a little more reliable.

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1 minute ago, Bane said:

Once it's finally time rerun your calcs to see if you are 1 off from 66/69/75 and consider whether you need that 1 more speed. 66 stops you from getting doubled, 69 double all but Nightmare Sniper and Anna, and 75 doubles everything. 75 with a Sniper is the best because you can double with a Longbow and out range everything, but as long as you have a Sniper and can weaken those 2 by poking with a Longbow you should be fine. It's also not difficult to hit 66 if you're running full power so you'll probably switch to Assassin.

The accuracy boosted skills are used most by Berserkers (since their skill cap is 35, only Great Knight's 34 is lower, and Axes generally have worse hit than other weapons) to reliably hit 100% on standard enemies and you'll also want it for the high avoid enemies to make them a little more reliable.

I see, then I will most certainly keep that in mind.  I just don't like taking too much risk for too little reward.

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Try to remember also that for the main game itself there's zero chance of you carrying all 13 children - don't forget, that requires 20+ parents and you're never going to be fielding that many units at once. Not to mention the incredible amounts of grinding that one would need to pass Galeforce to Owain, Inigo and Brady. It's fine to concentrate on a few pairs that you'd use for the main game itself, bring their kids, and pair off your other units.

For example, in the main story itself, you can get a surprising amount of mileage from pairing Gaius to Tharja. As a thief or assassin, he passes Speed and Skl, both of which Tharja enjoys getting. As a Trickster, he even passes Mov and Mag alongside Spe and Skl, which Tharja appreciates even more. As a Hero, he passes Spe, Skl, Def. Basically no matter what, Tharja is getting a fat number of bonuses that she enjoys. On the flip side. Gaius is getting Def and Res from her, adding to his admittedly pathetic survivability.

In a similar vein, Henry passes Mag, Def, Res to Sumia which allows her to shred the Valm campaign with Dark Flier spells. On the flipside, Sumia in Dark Flier passes Mag, Spe, Res which are the exact three stats Henry needs to succeed. It's a match made in heaven.

I could go on. Vaike is never getting Str from Cordelia, but he likes having her Spe and Res, while Cord appreciates his +Str and +Def as a Warrior, Stahl appreciates +Spe, Miriel appreciates +Spe and +Skl, and half of these pairs won't show up anyway because you don't have the room to field so many units in the main game.

8 hours ago, TheSilentChloey said:

Donnel!Kjelle @Swordmaster LB/Galeforce/Astra/Luna/Swordfaire x Virion!Gerome @Sniper LB/DSup+/Agg/Bowfaire/Hit +20

Lon'qu!Owain @Swordmaster LB/Galeforce/Astra/Swordfaire/Agg x Vaike!Severa @Swordmaster LB/Galeforce/Astra/Luna/Swordfaire

Chrom!Brady @Sage LB/Galeforce/Luna/Tomefaire/Agg x Henry!Cynthia @Dark Flier LB/Galeforce/Luna/Tomefaire/Vengence (?)

Gaius!Noire @Sniper LB/Galeforce/Bowfaire/Vengence/Sol x Frederick!Yarne @Berserker LB/Axefaire/(AS+2)/Lancebreaker/Agg

Stahl!Inigo @Swordmaster LB/Galeforce/Luna/Agg/Astra x Libra!Nah @Sage LB/Hex/Anathema/Tomefaire/Vengence

Maribelle!Lucina @Sage LB/Galeforce/Aether/Tomefaire/DSup+ x M!Robin @GM LB/Tomefaire/Agg/Rally Spectrum/Ignus

Lucina!Morgan @Sage LB/Galeforce/Aether/Tomefaire/DSup+ x Gregor!Laurent @Sage LB/Tomefaire/DSup+/Astra/Agg

You're incredibly fond of Swordmasters for some reason, despite the fact that they're reviled by a lot of Apotheosis players - low strength, swordlock, infantry, regalia-locked ranged combat (except for Levins which drop your Atk even more), outclassed by Assassin which have more Str, more Skl, Bows for 2-range, and hey, the same speed rating. Swordmasters are incredibly fast, but you must always ask yourself - do I need the speed?

On 10/22/2017 at 4:39 AM, Vascela said:

What's important here is that you're analyzing the stats you need and want.

On a physical unit, half the time the answer is no, not really. Don't forget - 75 Speed is used to double Nightmare Sniper and Anna. Anna exists once in the entirety of Apotheosis so as long as you have a few units at 75 speed (physical or caster) you're fine for her. Nightmare Sniper has 70 Def and Pavise, so attacking him with a fighter is a mistake. 69 Speed, the next threshold, is used to double Thronie. Thronie has 64 Defense including Helswath; if you challenge him with a fighter he's not going down in one round. Worse, he's going to kill you because you attacked him at one range and he has Counter (if you 2-ranged him, you don't get Brave damage). And almost no properly set up, limit-broken, rallied unit is going to drop below 66 Spe. In other words, having very fast caster units is more important than having very fast fighters.

In back, while Swordmasters provide +5 Spe pair up, there are units like Berserkers, Heroes, Bow Knights who provide +3 and Assassin who provides +4, and they'll hit harder than the Swordmaster, so you have to ask yourself if the lead unit really needs the 2 extra points of speed over having stronger Dual Strikes. Does that extra speed give you an extra speed threshold? If it doesn't then it's hot garbage. And even if it does, would it be a good idea to carry All Stats +2 on them and take the stronger DSes anyway, or carry some other skill and forego the speed? Analyse the stats that you need and want.

Ergo, before you start carrying Swordmasters, think if you really need them. Lon'qu!Owain is fast - he's inherited LQ's blistering speed. As a Swordmaster he's even faster, reaching 72 speed without so much as a partner. You can literally slap him with anyone (slap him with a Rally Bot) and he'll hit 75 Speed. There's no point giving him a Swordmaster buddy - 82 speed isn't more valuable than 72, it's just a waste of 7 Spe that could easily have been 8 or 9 Str with the right partner. And Vaike!Severa has access to neither Swordmaster nor Swordfaire (and why are you wasting her Axefaire inheritance?).

Listen, you can do whatever you want, far be it from us to stop you. But if you're talking about unit optimisation, there are better choices and worse choices (Stahl!Inigo is a physical unit and gains almost zero statistical benefit from a Sage buddy, but Libra!Nah can't do anything except Sage support because you haven't given her any physical -faires or even a dad which passes any physical classes at all; I pointed this out to you earlier), and if you're asking us for our insight, don't discard it out of hand. Because it looks to me like you didn't so much as read my previous post. If you're going to do that, don't even bother asking and wasting our time, just go and do what you want to do.

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5 minutes ago, soly said:

*Snip*

How about you read the post I made after that where I said the following:

Quote

Most of the skill sets are pretty much what I can remember everyone having access to off the top of my head so if I did mix any up it's likely for that reason alone

The same applies to classes :>_<: because I don't always have the best memory and it is on occasion difficult to remember who gets what classes especially when I'm doing more than one apo team with different pairings for each team.

 

Seconding that, why do you claim that I ignore your posts?  How about you actually look a bit deeper than "oh she's just going to run this and that and ignore everything I say, I'd better make a snappy not snappy post to show her how stupid she is and how dare she waste my time."

 

tbh I'm only trying to slim down posts to get to the crux of the issue and problem I'm having with the set ups.  Mainly that I don't want to risk my units getting doubled because that cuts too far into my margin for error.  Ideally I would run an apo team that has a good mix of units, however considering I haven't even touched Apo yet this is why I am here somewhat.  Also to make sure that I have a working team by the time I get to it.

 

And if you thought I would be concerned about having to grind, what kind of fool do you take me for?  I do not go for ANY male child who can inherit Galeforce without it.  I just don't, no exceptions.  I don't care how long it takes to get the skills that are needed because I have EXPonential Growth DLC and access to the Paragon skill :dry: problem solved and made moot by DLC.

I understand that you think I've got too many castors and not enough physical units but at the end of the day I have to do what works for me.  I prefer sorcs over sages for mire's range and magic over physical because more often then not physical gets screwed over in the main game thanks to fucking counter.  Which leads to my preference being ranged combat for that reason alone.  I am all for physical units but when you can potentially kill them in one shot it's not worth the damn risk in my eyes.  I'd rather have a mage deal half damage than a physical unit take counter damage...I do not want to risk having units fall because  was the one that didn't foresee that as happening even if I knew that it was going to happen.

 

Since there was an error in the classes adjustments have to be made as well as a couple of other pairing alterations/classes:

Donnel!Kjelle @Bride LB/Galeforce/Astra/Luna/Lancefaire or @Assassin LB/Galeforce/Astra/Luna/Swordfaire x Frederick!Yarne @Berserker LB/Axefaire/(AS+2)/Lancebreaker/Agg

Lon'qu!Owain @Assassin LB/Galeforce/Astra/Swordfaire/Agg x Vaike!Severa @Assassin LB/Galeforce/Astra/Luna/Bowbreaker or @bride LB/Galeforce/Astra/Luna/Bond or (AS+2)

Chrom!Brady @Sage LB/Galeforce/Luna/Tomefaire/Agg x Henry!Cynthia @Dark Flier LB/Galeforce/Luna/Tomefaire/ (AS+2)

Gaius!Noire @Sniper LB/Galeforce/Bowfaire/Vengence/Sol x Virion!Gerome @Sniper LB/DSup+/Agg/Bowfaire/Hit +20

Stahl!Inigo @Hero LB/Galeforce/Luna/Agg/Astra x Libra!Nah @Manakete LB/Hex/Anathema/Wyrmsbane/(AS+2)

Maribelle!Lucina @Sage LB/Galeforce/Aether/Tomefaire/DSup+ x M!Robin @GM LB/Tomefaire/Agg/Rally Spectrum/Ignus

Lucina!Morgan @Sage LB/Galeforce/Aether/Tomefaire/Ignus x Gregor!Laurent @Sage LB/Tomefaire/DSup+/Astra/Agg

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26 minutes ago, TheSilentChloey said:

Donnel!Kjelle @Bride LB/Galeforce/Astra/Luna/Lancefaire or @Assassin LB/Galeforce/Astra/Luna/Swordfaire x Frederick!Yarne @Berserker LB/Axefaire/(AS+2)/Lancebreaker/Agg

Lon'qu!Owain @Assassin LB/Galeforce/Astra/Swordfaire/Agg x Vaike!Severa @Assassin LB/Galeforce/Astra/Luna/Bowbreaker or @bride LB/Galeforce/Astra/Luna/Bond or (AS+2)

Chrom!Brady @Sage LB/Galeforce/Luna/Tomefaire/Agg x Henry!Cynthia @Dark Flier LB/Galeforce/Luna/Tomefaire/ (AS+2)

Gaius!Noire @Sniper LB/Galeforce/Bowfaire/Vengence/Sol x Virion!Gerome @Sniper LB/DSup+/Agg/Bowfaire/Hit +20

Stahl!Inigo @Hero LB/Galeforce/Luna/Agg/Astra x Libra!Nah @Manakete LB/Hex/Anathema/Wyrmsbane/(AS+2)

Maribelle!Lucina @Sage LB/Galeforce/Aether/Tomefaire/DSup+ x M!Robin @GM LB/Tomefaire/Agg/Rally Spectrum/Ignus

Lucina!Morgan @Sage LB/Galeforce/Aether/Tomefaire/Ignus x Gregor!Laurent @Sage LB/Tomefaire/DSup+/Astra/Agg

I'm gonna focus on speed here. These numbers only apply when the unit is in front.

Assassin!Owain: 50 +10 (LB) +10 (rally) +9 (pair) +2 (tonic) =81

Assassin!Severa: 50 +10 (LB) +10 (rally) +9 (pair) +2 (tonic) =81

That's a lot of speed, you've got a lot of wiggle room here to switch to stronger classes if you so choose.

Sage!Brady: 44 +10 (LB) +10 (rally) +8 (pair) +2 (tonic) = 74

Dark Flier!Cynthia: 46 +10 (LB) +10 (rally) +3 (pair) +2 (tonic) = 71

I don't know that Brady needs to hit 75 Speed so you can leave him where he's at. You might want to switch to Dark Knight to get more movement out of the pair.

Sniper!Noire: 44 +10 (LB) +10 (rally) +3 (pair) +2 (tonic) = 69

Since Gerome will never be in front, I'm not calculating his speed. If you swap Gerome to Bow Knight (+8 on pair) and swap Vengeance and Sol for Luna and AS+2 Noire can hit 75 speed which lets her double with a Longbow against Anna and Nightmare Sniper. It's worth it.

Hero!Inigo: 44 +22 (LB, rally, tonic) +3 (pair) = 69

I'm going to advise switching Nah to some other class because Manakete cannot use Brave Weapons. Braves are the big force multiplier in no holds barred play. Don't worry about mixing physical and magic units in this case, getting more damage is worth it. (Usually people would recommend Libra!Nah goes Sage, but if Inigo is going to be the up front fighter you could try Wyvern Lord (even if it doesn't have a faire) and still hit hard.)

Sage!Lucina: 44 +22 (LB, rally, tonic) +7 (pair) = 73

She's fine. Consider switching Robin to a Sage for more power. You don't need to force AS+2 into here to get to 75 speed.

Sage!Morgan: I don't remember what your asset/flaw are but it's probably in the 69 area.

So without really trying you've hit many 69 speed pairs and blown past 75 on another. Consider my Noire recommendation to get her up to 75 speed, she'll be able to weaken the strongest of enemies enough that anyone should be able to finish them off on a second round of combat. Also consider swapping Tomefaire for AS+2 on Brady if you want a magic unit with 75 speed (It might help on Thronezerker?).

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2 hours ago, TheSilentChloey said:

*snip*

Seconding that, why do you claim that I ignore your posts?  How about you actually look a bit deeper than "oh she's just going to run this and that and ignore everything I say, I'd better make a snappy not snappy post to show her how stupid she is and how dare she waste my time."

*snip*

I don't want to risk my units getting doubled because that cuts too far into my margin for error.

*snip*

I prefer sorcs over sages for mire's range and magic over physical because more often then not physical gets screwed over in the main game thanks to fucking counter.  Which leads to my preference being ranged combat for that reason alone.

The reason I claimed you ignore my post is because you appear not to have taken any of the even clearly recommended recommendations, and just posted the exact same pairings but with classes and no reasoning for not taking any of my recommendations beyond "they are meant to be story pairings as well". Even now I'm seeing Fred!Yarne and Libra!Nah. If you have an extreme fondness for these pairs, we can work around it, but I'm assuming that you do not (because they were neither bolded nor italicised) and frankly these pairs are extremely subpar options (Libra!Nah isn't but she doesn't want to marry Stahl!Inigo) and you should strongly reconsider.

Ugh, and now I'm getting sucked back into fighting. Never mind. I'm going to pretend we're not fighting since fighting is unproductive, and I'm going to cut out all the rejoinders. Let's just get down to playing the optimisation game. The truth is, I love this optimisation game. And since I now know what kind of player I'm looking at, I can tailor recommendations to you instead of just offering pure meta.

I'm just going to address the only quoted portions - there is no real risk in being doubled in Apo, because we're preventing it. By running your speed calculations before entering, no single enemy can double you if you're at least at 66 Spe. In fact, doubling enemies when you're this fast (66 Spe) isn't even a major concern because there are something like 6 enemies you fail to double at 66 Spe (Anna, Thronie in wave 4 and two Clonies in wave 5, Nightmare Sniper and his clonie in wave 5, and a wave 4 Sage with 62 Spe after his Forseti). Once you reach 69 Speed you're doubling Thronies too. So it's definitely worth it to calculate how much speed you have going in. Any speed over 75 is wasted speed. Enemy spawns in Apotheosis don't have two 70 Spe enemies near each other, so having two units in a pair hitting 75 Spe is wasted speed. There are so few enemies in Apo with 70 speed that having too many of your units at 75 Spe is wasted speed. Almost any wasted speed can be converted into Str or Mag or a proc or -faire to hit harder.

Mire sniping is mostly superseded by Longbows in Apo, which can double, proc, and get Dual Strikes. There aren't as many enemies with Counter in Apo as you might fear, either - Wave 1 Warriors, Wave 2 and Wave 5 Sniper minions, Wave 4 Berserkers including Thronie and his wave 5 Clonies, and Anna herself. This page is your friend.

Fantastic. Let's get down to it.

In the end, you always want to have at least one or two units with at least the option to engage at 1-range with Brave Swords, Lances or Axes, because those are the weapons that bypass Aegis+. And if your entire team hits Aegis+ you're frankly screwed. With that said, given a predilection towards 2-range combat, we can focus on classes which retain the option - Bow Knights, Dread Fighters, Brides, Assassins, Warriors are the main ones offhand (Dark Knight and Dark Flier are primarily caster classes and are likely to have caster pairs, so their melee will be worse than usual). I hope you'll understand if not every unit can reach one of these classes, but it should at least be possible to ensure that every pair has a frontliner (not a hard support) in at least one of these classes.
I'm again bringing my essay game so here's a spoiler tag and a tl;dr.

Spoiler

Lon'qu!Owain x Vaike!Severa is a naturally fast pairing. Severa lacks Bowfaire and inherits Vaike's Axefaire so I'm going to recommend she carry Hero over Bride. If you drop the Faire from her skillset she doesn't have that much else to run anyway, which is a failing of Vaike!Severa over someone like Stahl. Owain's modifiers naturally lend themselves to spellcasting so he's the one you'd look to when targeting Counter and Pavise+ units. His only caster classes are Sage and Dread Fighter, and I'm going to recommend Dread Fighter so that Severa gets a dash of +Spe (enough to put her over the 75 Speed mark) and a good amount of +Str. On the other side Owain isn't getting any of the bonuses he really needs; he's hitting 75 Speed and getting some Skl for his unreliable Astra proc but he'll be fine. If you can swap around your pairings a bit to give Inigo to Severa then that would be more ideal - Owain would be able to excel with Sage's higher Mag cap over Dread Fighter's subpar one.

I've said this a few times in the past, but the highest speed foes in Apo (Thronies and Nightmare Sniper) have pretty impressive Def ratings (NS has a Nightmarish 70 Def and Pavise) so having a very fast (75 Spe) reliable caster to deal with them is highly recommended, and in your case Chrom!Brady is really the only one that fits the bill. It's worth dropping his Tomefaire to run All Stats+2, as this will put him from 74 Speed up to 76. If I were you, I would definitely do this. Henry!Cynthia is fine, as a Dark Flier she passes him the Speed and Mag he needs to do his job as your most important bosskiller.

Donnel!Kjelle gets Lancefaire to use as a Bride (and Swordfaire Bow Knight, but it's a weaker, slower class), along with the Bow access that you enjoy having. She's moderately fast - 44 Speed puts her at 66 before her pair-up bonus. Giving her Yarne's Berserker puts her at 74, which is a bit of a waste of his +Speed; Bane has the right of it when he suggests that a 75 Speed Sniper (Noire) is going to be valuable. I would definitely recommend giving Yarne to Noire and taking Virion!Gerome. Kjelle doesn't mind taking Gerome's Bowfaire Warrior pair up, as she still gets 3 Spe to hit 69 from 66. Gerome is a hard support and shouldn't be leading ever.

Speaking of Gaius!Noire, she can carry All Stats +2 over her Bowfaire to hit 75 Speed Sniper, backed by the massive stopping power of a Berserker Yarne. Again, I'd definitely try to give Yarne a +hit skill to alleviate his low hit rate. Anathema from Libra or Hit+20 and Prescience from an archer dad (Virion, Stahl, Ricken) are excellent choices. Yarne, too, is a hard support who shouldn't lead.

Stahl!Inigo is an excellent Bow Knight or even a Warrior with access to all of his requisite -faires, but not on the same set because he wants to carry Luna, Aggressor, Galeforce and Limit Breaker. If you want him to be equally good with both his bow and his sword or axe, run, All Stats+2 over his -faire. If you don't care as much, give him Swordfaire or Bowfaire. In all cases, watch his speed. He'll always hit 69 with +Speed but certain Inigo variants have trouble without it. I would definitely, definitely reconsider his wife, though; Libra!Nah is capable of only one competent supporting set, Tomefaire Sage (Manaketes don't get Brave weapons so they do very low damage) and Stahl!Inigo, a fighter unit, can't take proper advantage of a Sage support. If you can shuffle your dads around to give her physical -faires (eg. Gregor for Axefaire Hero or Wyvern) she'll do fine with Inigo (be warned that Inigo/Nah has some of the worst supports in the game). What would also work well is if you gave Inigo to Severa as a Physical x Physical pair and gave Nah to Owain. Owain is already naturally fast, and Nah can get Valkyrie from Gregor again to boost his speed to 75 (she already has Tomefaire from her mother), giving you another option for bosskilling (albeit a less reliable one, as Owain lacks a stable proc).

Maribelle!Lucina doesn't take any advantage of Robin's Grandmaster +Spe pair up - she hits 69 Spe no matter what, but can't make 75 Spe with Grandmaster support. He should ideally switch to Sage for stronger Dual Strikes. Neither is Robin ever going to be in front, so he can drop Rally and Ignis for anything that gives some small benefit (All Stats +2, Solidarity, Anathema). Procstacking Lucina should always run LB/Galeforce/Luna/Aether/Dual Strike+; Dual Strike+ is one of the best skills in the game.

Morgan is fine, I would switch her to Dark Flier but she's fine as a Sage. Gregor!Laurent would be fine but he's one of Nah's better fathers, offering Valkyrie to go with her Tomefaire, Axefaire to go with her Wyvern Lord, Axefaire Hero if she needs to give +Speed, and Swordfaire Assassin if she needs to give even more Speed and some Str. On the other hand Laurent doesn't care too much about his dad because he gets everything he needs from his mother. Gregor is fantastic on him but Libra!Laurent gets +Mag and will suffice if Gregor is taken (we're giving him to Nah). In this case though Ricken is still free and passes both Archer and +Mag, so you can do Ricken!Yarne and Libra!Laurent, or Ricken!Laurent and Libra!Yarne. Both give both kids what they want; Libra!Yarne is more inaccurate but stronger and Ricken!Yarne takes Ricken's Str penalty but gets much better +hit. Laurent prefers Ricken but will be about the same either way. I would do Ricken!Yarne myself, but this is personal preference.

I think you could stand to convert either Lucina or Morgan into a Dark Flier for improved mobility (Lucina would be able to leverage Grandmaster's +Str with Lances against Aegis+ units, while Morgan gets more Str to use with Ignis) but they're fine even if not.

 

and the tl;dr:

Spoiler

Donnel!Kjelle @Bride LB/Galeforce/Astra/Luna/Lancefaire (69 Spe) x Virion!Gerome @Sniper LB/DSup+/Agg/Bowfaire/Hit +20 (hard support, never leading)

Vaike!Severa @Hero LB/Galeforce/Axefaire/Luna/AS+2 (69 with Warrior, 75 with BK) x  Stahl!Inigo @Bow Knight or Warrior; LB/Galeforce/Agg/Luna/Swordfaire, Bowfaire or AS+2 (69 Spe always, 75 with Bow Knight and AS+2)

Chrom!Brady @Sage LB/Galeforce/Luna/Agg/AS+2 (75 Spe) x Henry!Cynthia @Dark Flier LB/Galeforce/Luna/Tomefaire/filler (AS+2/Mov+1) (69 Spe)

Gaius!Noire @Sniper LB/Galeforce/AS+2/(either Luna/Astra or Vengeance/Bowfaire) (75 Spe) x Ricken!Yarne @Berserker LB/Axefaire/Agg/Hit+20/Prescience (hard support)

Lon'qu!Owain @Sage LB/Galeforce/Astra/Tomefaire/Agg (75 Spe) x Gregor!Nah @Valkyrie LB/Tomefaire/3 fillers (AS+2, Mag+2, Dual Support+) (hard support)

Maribelle!Lucina @Sage LB/Galeforce/Aether/Luna/Dual Strike+ (69 Spe) x M!Robin @Sage LB/Tomefaire/Agg/2 fillers (Anathema, AS+2, Mag+2, Solidarity) (hard support)

Lucina!Morgan @Sage LB/Galeforce/Aether/Tomefaire/Ignis (69 Spe) x Libra!Laurent @Sage LB/Tomefaire/Agg/2 fillers (Anathema, AS+2, Mag+2) (hard support)

 

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11 hours ago, Bane said:

Assassin!Owain: 50 +10 (LB) +10 (rally) +9 (pair) +2 (tonic) =81

Assassin!Severa: 50 +10 (LB) +10 (rally) +9 (pair) +2 (tonic) =81

That's a lot of speed, you've got a lot of wiggle room here to switch to stronger classes if you so choose.

So, while I was at work, I got the idea of Wyvern Lord!Owain and Hero!Severa since Owain has Axefaire innately and gets Wyvern from Lon'qu.

Wyvern Lord!Owain: 42 +10 (LB) +10 (rally) +2 (tonic) +8 (pair) = 72

Hero!Severa: 46 +10 (LB) +10 (rally) +2 (tonic) +3 (pair) = 71

Wyvern Lord!Owain: LB, Agg, Axefaire, Galeforce, AS+2 and Hero!Severa: LB, Galeforce, Axefaire (from Vaike), Luna, AS+2.

I'm just slapping AS+2 in there at this point because there's not much else that synergizes, but you can swap it for Hex/Anathema on Severa and Astra or Deliverer (12 move Wyvern Lord after rallies) on Owain. This would be a good pair to skirmish with (just attack mooks) because they'll have high move and have pretty high Str too. 

Just a thought in case Chloey wants to dabble in something non-standard that might work with the pairs she likes.

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10 hours ago, Bane said:

I'm gonna focus on speed here. These numbers only apply when the unit is in front.

Assassin!Owain: 50 +10 (LB) +10 (rally) +9 (pair) +2 (tonic) =81

Assassin!Severa: 50 +10 (LB) +10 (rally) +9 (pair) +2 (tonic) =81

That's a lot of speed, you've got a lot of wiggle room here to switch to stronger classes if you so choose.

Sage!Brady: 44 +10 (LB) +10 (rally) +8 (pair) +2 (tonic) = 74

Dark Flier!Cynthia: 46 +10 (LB) +10 (rally) +3 (pair) +2 (tonic) = 71

I don't know that Brady needs to hit 75 Speed so you can leave him where he's at. You might want to switch to Dark Knight to get more movement out of the pair.

Sniper!Noire: 44 +10 (LB) +10 (rally) +3 (pair) +2 (tonic) = 69

Since Gerome will never be in front, I'm not calculating his speed. If you swap Gerome to Bow Knight (+8 on pair) and swap Vengeance and Sol for Luna and AS+2 Noire can hit 75 speed which lets her double with a Longbow against Anna and Nightmare Sniper. It's worth it.

Hero!Inigo: 44 +22 (LB, rally, tonic) +3 (pair) = 69

I'm going to advise switching Nah to some other class because Manakete cannot use Brave Weapons. Braves are the big force multiplier in no holds barred play. Don't worry about mixing physical and magic units in this case, getting more damage is worth it. (Usually people would recommend Libra!Nah goes Sage, but if Inigo is going to be the up front fighter you could try Wyvern Lord (even if it doesn't have a faire) and still hit hard.)

Sage!Lucina: 44 +22 (LB, rally, tonic) +7 (pair) = 73

She's fine. Consider switching Robin to a Sage for more power. You don't need to force AS+2 into here to get to 75 speed.

Sage!Morgan: I don't remember what your asset/flaw are but it's probably in the 69 area.

So without really trying you've hit many 69 speed pairs and blown past 75 on another. Consider my Noire recommendation to get her up to 75 speed, she'll be able to weaken the strongest of enemies enough that anyone should be able to finish them off on a second round of combat. Also consider swapping Tomefaire for AS+2 on Brady if you want a magic unit with 75 speed (It might help on Thronezerker?).

 

Robin is +Mag/-Str.

 

So the revised set up:

Donnel!Kjelle @Bride LB/Galeforce/Astra/Luna/Lancefaire x Frederick!Yarne @Berserker LB/Axefaire/(AS+2)/Lancebreaker/Agg 

Lon'qu!Owain @Assassin LB/Galeforce/Astra/Swordfaire/Agg x Virion!Severa @Bowknight LB/Galeforce/Bowfaire/Sol/(AS+2)

Chrom!Brady @Sage or @Dark Knight (per suggestion) LB/Galeforce/Luna/Tomefaire/Agg x Henry!Cynthia @Dark Flier Or @Sage LB/Galeforce/Luna/Tomefaire/ (AS+2)

Gaius!Noire @Sniper LB/Galeforce/Bowfaire/Vengence/Sol x Vaike!Gerome @Berserker LB/DSup+/Agg/Axefaire/(AS+2)

Stahl!Inigo @Hero LB/Galeforce/Luna/Agg/(AS+2) x Libra!Nah @Sage LB/Hex/Anathema/Tomefaire/(AS+2)

Maribelle!Lucina @Sage LB/Galeforce/Aether/Tomefaire/Dual Strike+ x M!Robin @GM LB/Tomefaire/Agg/(AS+2)/Ignus

Lucina!Morgan @Sage LB/Galeforce/Aether/Tomefaire/Ignus x Gregor!Laurent @Sage LB/Tomefaire/DSup+/Astra/Agg

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12 minutes ago, TheSilentChloey said:

Robin is +Mag/-Str. That's fine, 71 speed on Morgan if she and Laurent stay Sage.

So the revised set up:

Donnel!Kjelle @Bride LB/Galeforce/Astra/Luna/Lancefaire x Frederick!Yarne @Berserker LB/Axefaire/(AS+2)/Lancebreaker/Agg Good.

Lon'qu!Owain @Assassin LB/Galeforce/Astra/Swordfaire/Agg x Virion!Severa @Bowknight LB/Galeforce/Bowfaire/Sol/(AS+2) I see Virion Severa now, she can run a 75 speed Wyvern Lord that runs roughshod over mooks if you want to give that a try. Owain needs to take a +3 speed class to make it happen but if he keeps Assassin or switches to Berserker or Swordmaster you can make it work. Or she can run 75 speed Sniper. I'd recommend Vengeance over Sol simply because you'll have staffbots deployed to heal people in danger up to full if you need it and if you plan it right Severa will never be hit after the first one that sets Vengeance up. You've given yourself more options by switching to Virion!Severa and while Bow Knight is fine I just want to see what else you're willing to try.

Chrom!Brady @Sage or @Dark Knight (per suggestion) LB/Galeforce/Luna/Tomefaire/Agg x Henry!Cynthia @Dark Flier Or @Sage LB/Galeforce/Luna/Tomefaire/ (AS+2) Good, maybe Anathema instead of AS+2 on Cynthia.

Gaius!Noire @Sniper LB/Galeforce/Bowfaire/Vengence/Sol x Vaike!Gerome @Berserker LB/DSup+/Agg/Axefaire/(AS+2) Don't run Vengeance and Sol at the same time, consider just Vengeance or Luna/Astra. I don't think DSup+ does anything in the back (somebody correct me on this?) but you can switch it for Tantivy (Berserkers need a little accuracy fixing) or even Str+2/Deliverer. Yeah, we're digging deep here.

Stahl!Inigo @Hero LB/Galeforce/Luna/Agg/(AS+2) x Libra!Nah @Sage LB/Hex/Anathema/Tomefaire/(AS+2) Good.

Maribelle!Lucina @Sage LB/Galeforce/Aether/Tomefaire/Dual Strike+ x M!Robin @GM LB/Tomefaire/Agg/(AS+2)/IgniGood, probably should swap Ignis for Hex/Anathema though unless you plan to switch to Robin (I say let him sit in the back and do his thing from there.)

Lucina!Morgan @Sage LB/Galeforce/Aether/Tomefaire/Ignis x Gregor!Laurent @Sage LB/Tomefaire/DSup+/Astra/Agg Swap DSup+ for Anathema and I'd call it good.

I see you've changed a couple things around. I hope you're getting closer to what you want to get out of your pairs!

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7 minutes ago, Bane said:

I see you've changed a couple things around. I hope you're getting closer to what you want to get out of your pairs!

That's the whole point :XD: if they're going to work better then that's the plan!!

Also DSup+ does work regardless of if the unit is leading or not.  So there's that little tidbit for you :D:

So the revision of the revision :XD:

 

Donnel!Kjelle @Bride LB/Galeforce/Astra/Luna/Lancefaire x Frederick!Yarne @Berserker LB/Axefaire/(AS+2)/Lancebreaker/Agg

Lon'qu!Owain @Assassin LB/Galeforce/Astra/Swordfaire/Agg x Virion!Severa @Sniper LB/Galeforce/Bowfaire/Vengence/(AS+2) or Bowknight if she's going to sit in the back, but I am leaning towards Sniper...Long Bow Shenanigans are a bit too good to pass up. Since Severa is more of a physical unit anyway.

Chrom!Brady @Sage or @Dark Knight (per suggestion) LB/Galeforce/Luna/Tomefaire/Agg x Henry!Cynthia @Dark Flier or @Sage LB/Galeforce/Luna/Tomefaire/ (AS+2)

Gaius!Noire @Sniper LB/Galeforce/Bowfaire/Sol/Astra x Vaike!Gerome @Berserker LB/DSup+/Agg/Axefaire/(AS+2)

Stahl!Inigo @Hero LB/Galeforce/Luna/Agg/(AS+2) x Libra!Nah @Sage LB/Hex/Anathema/Tomefaire/(AS+2)

Maribelle!Lucina @Dark Flier LB/Galeforce/Aether/Tomefaire/DSup+/Dual Strike+ x M!Robin @GM LB/Tomefaire/Agg/(AS+2)/Ignus (Main Game) Apo LB/Hex/Anathema/Tomefaire/Agg

Lucina!Morgan @Sage LB/Galeforce/Aether/Tomefaire/Ignus x Gregor!Laurent @Sage LB/Tomefaire/DSup+/Astra/Agg

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Hi all, I think I'm going to redo my main, Chrom/MU, file, so I'd like to know which of these pairings seem the most suited for Apotheosis (secret route).

Chrom/FeMU (+Mag/not decided yet on the flaw, since -Def seems good but the -3 mod scares me a bit...)

Virion/Maribelle

Lon'qu/Cordelia

Henry/Lissa

Frederick/Olivia

Stahl/Cherche

Gregor/Miriel

Libra/Sully

Gaius/Sumia

Donnel/Tharja

Vaike/Nowi

Kellam/Panne (which doesn't matter much since Yarne is going to remain unpaired)

I'm pretty okay with most second gen pairings, even if I prefer them to remain in their canon classes as much as they can.

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Def flaw isn't important in Apotheosis because you should survive a single hit from every enemy anyway, and against the really big hitters, you're not surviving a second hit anyway no matter what. Learn which enemies are the big hitters and don't let them push you around. -Def does matter ingame, it makes your Avatar notably squishier, so if this worries you then go -Lck. You suffer a minor penalty to Str and Mag but you'll be fine anyway.

Spoiler
On 10/29/2017 at 3:37 PM, Katsuri said:

Hi all, I think I'm going to redo my main, Chrom/MU, file, so I'd like to know which of these pairings seem the most suited for Apotheosis (secret route).

Chrom/FeMU (+Mag/not decided yet on the flaw, since -Def seems good but the -3 mod scares me a bit...) If you intend on keeping Lucina in her default Great Lord, strongly consider going +Str instead of +Mag. Great Lord is fast enough without +Spe but strongly appreciates +Str; Morgan can work with just about any Asset. He does prefer +Spe, I think, but he should be versatile enough anyway. That said, I do recommend +Mag and finishing both Lucina and Morgan in spellcasting classes, or +Spe and finishing at least one of them in a caster class, if not both. You might not have enough spellcasters otherwise. (You can give Lucina Grandmaster :^_^:)

Virion/Maribelle Brady inherits enough speed to pair off with a Dark Flier and hit 75 Spe. His default class is Sage so that's really great for you because Sage Brady is a dominant unit if he gets even a bit of speed. Virion gives him enough speed to shred things. He's fine.

Lon'qu/Cordelia A default Severa recommendation, but LQ!Sev only has Vengeance. If you'd rather have Luna in play, give her some other dad (Stahl and Vaike are her usual Luna dads). LQ!Sev is fast enough to make 75 Spe Hero with a +0 support, so if you're cool with Vengeance procs this is a good choice.

Henry/Lissa Owain wants to get a stable proc - Luna or Vengeance. Also, don't forget that Owain inherits Lissa's -2 Str and her 2 Mag, so he's naturally inclined to spellcasting. If you love physical Owain then the main recommendation is Stahl which offers Luna and good finishing physical classes in Paladin and Sniper. Vengeance Henry!Owain is fine, but Henry is often very in demand for other kids, especially Cynthia, and Owain can afford to take Stahl. Basically, if you're doing physical Owain and care at all about his viability outside of Swordmaster and Assassin, give him Stahl. If you intend to keep him in Swordmaster or Assassin for his entire life, maybe you can get away with someone like Frederick or Kellam, who nuke his speed (but as a Swordmaster he can take it). Kellam also doesn't hurt his Mag, so he'll make a decent spellcaster - but Stahl!Owain is probably better at this because he's faster. (By the way, Assassin is a better class, so if your pride allows for it, go Assassin.) If you don't mind kicking Owain out of his physical classes, Ricken is an all-star dad for him, boosting his Mag and passing Luna. He'll still be a little slow, but he's always going to be slow.

Frederick/Olivia Inigo only cares about getting a stable proc (again, Luna or Vengeance). He's fine.

Stahl/Cherche Traditional Geromes want Henry for Berserker as a finishing class and Dark Mage accuracy skills, but Cynthia has a better claim on Henry. If you're keeping him in Wyvern Lord, Vaike skyrockets his Str and gives him Axefaire. Gregor also passes Axefaire, so also works. Stahl!Gerome's standard set is Bowfaire Warrior, which is very good, but it doesn't sound like you want him out of Wyvern Lord. Give him to whichever physical girl is free.

Gregor/Miriel Considered the best Laurent in the game. He's fine. If someone else wants Gregor (like Cherche) he can take Ricken, Libra or Henry for their positive Mag inheritance, or Lon'qu for Vantage/Vengeance outside of Apotheosis. But he's fine with nearly any dad in Apo itself.

Libra/Sully Kjelle, by default, comes with Luna, Astra, Swordfaire, Deliverer, Assassin, Paladin, Wyvern Lord, and General. There is nothing any father can offer her that trumps Pegasus class inheritance for Lancefaire and Galeforce. Give her Gaius or Donnel. Gaius!Noire is a fantastic Sniper which is really important so I'm gonna say you want Donnel. Put her in General if you're really set on keeping her in her base class, because Great Knight sucks. Give her Deliverer or Inigo in Bow Knight to remedy her low Mov.

Gaius/Sumia Gaius!Cynthia is a good unit, but unless you're extremely attached to this pairing, give Gaius to Noire for Galeforce and being an all-around godlike Sniper. Chromless Cynthia usually goes for Henry. She can take Fred, but he hurts her Mag and Spe which she doesn't want. Put her in Dark Flier and give her to Brady.

Donnel/Tharja Not as good as Gaius!Noire. If you're sticking to base classes only then you'll only have one Sniper. Snipers have the ability to dump 3-range uncounterable attacks on targets, so they're incredibly potent in Apo for dealing with Wave 2 and Wave 5 Sniper minions (Vantage+ Counter Luna+), Wave 4 Thronie, his Wave 4 minions, and his Wave 5 Clonies, and Wave 5 Anna. If you only have one Sniper, and that Sniper is definitely Noire, then you definitely want to do Gaius!Noire. It's that important. You're probably giving her Laurent's Sage support.

Vaike/Nowi Manaketes lose Brave weapon access so you usually don't bring them to Apo. Ergo, Nah might well be the only unit you're carrying who isn't in her base class. Before finalising Nah's dad, figure out which unit (Galeboy) she wants to support. Physical Nah can take Vaike's Axefaire inheritance and go Hero, if her Galeboy needs Speed, or General if not, so this is a good choice in that scenario (if you don't like her as General she also gets Wyvern Lord). Magical Nahs want to get Henry if possible (for Hard support Valkyrie, but this probably is not possible), Donnel (for Dark Flier, but Donnel isn't free either), or Gregor (for Valkyrie inheritance which she can use with native Tomefaire. This might actually be possible). If none of her Valkyrie dads are available, she's fine as a Sage and can take anyone with +Mag or neutral Mag. There's a pretty good chance she's supporting Morgan.

Kellam/Panne (which doesn't matter much since Yarne is going to remain unpaired) The usual recommendation is to bench Gerome instead of Yarne, because Yarne needs less to succeed than Gerome, but Gerome's awesome Batman guy. Try to at least give him a dad with archer (Ricken, Stahl, Virion) or dark mage (Libra, Henry) which fixes his accuracy issues as a Berserker. Taguel is the worst class in the game so stay away.

I'm pretty okay with most second gen pairings, even if I prefer them to remain in their canon classes as much as they can.

 

 

Edited by soly

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Spoiler
On 10/29/2017 at 9:37 AM, Katsuri said:

Hi all, I think I'm going to redo my main, Chrom/MU, file, so I'd like to know which of these pairings seem the most suited for Apotheosis (secret route).

Chrom/FeMU (+Mag/not decided yet on the flaw, since -Def seems good but the -3 mod scares me a bit...)

Virion/Maribelle

Lon'qu/Cordelia

Henry/Lissa

Frederick/Olivia

Stahl/Cherche

Gregor/Miriel

Libra/Sully

Gaius/Sumia

Donnel/Tharja

Vaike/Nowi

Kellam/Panne (which doesn't matter much since Yarne is going to remain unpaired)

I'm pretty okay with most second gen pairings, even if I prefer them to remain in their canon classes as much as they can.

 

The big thing is how much you want to keep the first gen pairs. The standouts are Libra!Sully, Donnel!Tharja, Gaius!Sumia and Kellam!Panne (but you don't care about Yarne, so w/e) but if you're attached to them and are set on canon classes we can make it work. If you're keeping canon classes you might want +spd/-def on Robin so Lucina and Morgan hit higher speed thresholds.

Soly's covered the basics for pairs so you should consider his ideas and come back with some specifics on what you want out of your team. I at least want to hear what you think canon classes are because for me that's what the kids are in Future Past and some of those choices aren't great. The other problem you'll run into is that you'll run 5~6 combat pairs in Apo so you can focus on a smaller number of kids and not make everyone good. If your 3 "questionable" kids weren't all girls I'd say roll with it and we can put the pieces together to get you a pretty good team. As it stands though I'd say something like:

Chrom/Robin (Chrom has to come and you generally pair Chrom with his wife)

Great Lord!Lucina/Wyvern Lord!Gerome: Lucina doesn't need any speed to hit 75 (assuming +spd/-def) and Gerome can just be pure support damage.

Grandmaster!Morgan/Hero!Severa: Both should hit 75 speed (I think, I'm playing fast and loose with the numbers) and things will go fine.

Sage!Brady/Dark Flier!Cynthia: 75 speed Sage, Cynthia ferries Brady around in a double galepair. It should work fine.

Assassin!Owain/General!Kjelle: Owain needs more strength and Kjelle needs more speed. It'll work fine for mooks, but the two might not work well on bosses. If you're dropping a pair, it should probably be this one.

Hero!Inigo/Sniper!Noire: Gives Noire more strength and speed to double Thronie, but she won't hit 75. It's still enough to be extremely useful though. Inigo just fights mooks, but it's fine.

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Hello. So ive done apotheosis normal route a few times but wanted to try secret route with one caveat. I wanted to run it without the use of brave weapons. Here are the pairings i was considering. This file hasn't actually been made yet so changes can be made if needs be.

Chrom x FeMU (+Mag/-Def)(Im open to suggestions if needs be though.

Henry x Sumia

Librax Lissa

Virionx Olivia

Ricken x Maribelle

Vaike x Sully

Gregor x Cordelia

Frederick x Cherche (probably going to be my benchwarmer)

Stahl x Panne

Lon'qu x Miriel

Gaius x Tharja

Donnel x Nowi

I should add that several of these pairings were made for story reasons and a few (Vaike!Sully) were just because I was sick of always doing Donnel!Kjelle. Also I know that Virion!Inigo and Donnel!Nah don't have good/any procs on their own but they both get AT and 50 luck so I was thinking of slapping them with the vengeance axe and luna spear respectively. Only one whose class is set in stone is Bride for Nah.

So let me know if this is doable or if I'll be bashing my head into a wall.

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12 hours ago, Gramork said:

Hello. So ive done apotheosis normal route a few times but wanted to try secret route with one caveat. I wanted to run it without the use of brave weapons. Here are the pairings i was considering. This file hasn't actually been made yet so changes can be made if needs be.

So let me know if this is doable or if I'll be bashing my head into a wall.

Vascela's the one to ask because I think he did this (There was another guy awhile back (Airship Canon? Ownagepuffs?) that did secret route challenge runs but he hasn't posted in this thread for awhile, but this challenge has been done previously) I think you're going to want to stack Vengeance onto Longbow Snipers. I also remember seeing someone run a gimmick Sorceror crit build that might be feasible.

As long as you can manage 5 kills a turn you should be able to squeak through the secret route...

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No Brave runs are one thing, but another question that needs to be asked is - are you carrying Limit Breaker and Rallies? Because you mention hitting 50 Luck, and that's pretty much not a concern for anyone with Limit Breaker alone. And it changes the game drastically if you're not doing LB + Rallies.

Edited by soly

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