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Nothing weird about your pairings at all, they're mostly the recommended ones. Spending Stahl on Nah isn't always wise, but it's still considered good for the most part, just a more specialty setup than is normally seen. I would definitely do Vaike!Severa if Axefaire is your main concern; Swordfaire really does almost nothing for her if she has Axefaire and Gregor doesn't do anything else for her.

By the way, Dual Guard+ is trash. People do Stahl!Nah for dualproc Sniper mostly. And your team isn't really set up to run dualproc Sniper Nah well, I don't think... actually I can't think of any lead who would want dualproc Sniper Nah behind them except physical Inigo or Morgan-M, and her supports with Inigo are trash.

So you have Sumia!Lucina, Chrom!Cynthia, Gregor!Severa or Vaike!Severa, Gaius!Noire, Donnel!Kjelle, and Stahl!Nah on one hand...
...and Ricken!Owain, Fred!Inigo, Lon'qu!Brady, Libra!Laurent, Virion!Yarne, and Henry!Gerome on the other, plus Avatar-M and Sumia!Lucina!Morgan or Chrom!Cynthia!Morgan.

Spoiler

Mostly you want to try to give hard support boys to your highest-performing Galegirls, Nah to a Galeboy who appreciates her support (physical if she's physical and magical if she's magical), a Dark Flier girl to +Spe Brady (or give him a Valkyrie or Bride instead if he's Lon'qu!Brady in particular), then pair physical with physical and magic with magic.

We'll start with the high performers. Lucina or Cynthia already get Avatar-M. Cynthia can go to Brady as a Dark Flier if not pairing with the Avatar, but Lucina appreciates a hard support. If her sister is a Sage then she is probably a Sniper and wants Virion!Yarne or Henry!Gerome. If Cynthia picks Sniper she wants the same.

Morgan-F is presumably magic if she has a Sage royal sister for her mother. If she's +Spe Morgan, then she can go either way and wants Henry!Gerome. If she's +Mag Morgan then she is heavily magical and can take Libra!Laurent.

Your highest-performing remaining Galegirl is Gaius!Noire, who wants a Berserker. If Morgan got Laurent then she has Gerome and is fine with this. If not, she wants Gregor!Laurent instead. Alternatively give her Yarne. Don't forget that Noire has innate Anathema and can lead a Gerome without Henry parentage - Breaker skills instead of his Dark Mage auras or Archer +hit suite.

If Cynthia went to Brady then you still have one hard support remaining. Your remaining galegirls are Severa and Kjelle. Severa's the better performer here even without her +Spe dads so give her a Berserker support.

Nah is physical, but Inigo is a low-level performer and not really worthy of a dedicated hard support, also his supports with her suck. You probably want her to go to Lon'qu!Brady instead. Give her Bride and Bowfaire. If Brady got Cynthia then the same Bride Bowfaire Nah with Owain works well. If Henry is free (you did Gregor!Gerome beside Noire, for example) then give Henry to Nah and run Valkyrie with Tomefaire instead of Bride, it's way better.

Brady will have Dark Flier Cynthia, Bowfaire Bride Nah, or Tomefaire Valkyrie Nah, he's okay.

Your remaining kids are Owain (magical), Inigo (physical), Kjelle (physical), and Severa (physical). That's actually a big problem. You can try doing Stahl!Owain and Henry!Nah, which gives you physical Owain, or Virion!Severa or Ricken!Severa and Libra!Owain or Ricken!Yarne, Libra!Yarne, Gregor!Yarne (which gives you magic Severa).

You can also do Cynthia x Brady, which means you did Owain x Nah (still try to get her Henry), and then you have a physical hard support boy in the wings. That works better.

 

So you have

Sumia!Lucina x Avatar-M
Chrom!Cynthia x Lon'qu!Brady
Gaius!Noire x Gregor!Gerome
Vaike!Severa x Virion!Yarne
Donnel!Kjelle x Fred!Inigo
Henry!Nah x Ricken!Owain
Sumia!Lucina!Morgan x Libra!Laurent

Is there anything I'd do differently...? Well, this setup has no Stahl, and Stahl is a top tier dad who can go to Inigo as a straight-up improvement over Fred or Yarne as a straight-up improvement over Virion, or to Severa as a sidegrade - Stahl!Severa doesn't hit as hard as Vaike!Severa, but access to Sniper, Paladin and Assassin give her more options to run as a lead, plus she gets Astra to dualproc with Luna (Vaike!Severa has either Luna or Vengeance).

Doing Stahl!Severa gives you Vaike!Gerome which is mostly a straight upgrade to Gregor!Gerome, then you can do Gregor!Laurent if Morgan is +Spe asset (so that Morgan can run a physical set with a physical support if need be, instead of the always-magical Libra!Laurent).

Now, if you're bringing all your kids into Apo, you'd have 14 units in the list above, plus Chrom and presumably Sumia make 16. Olivia makes 17, and two rallybots make 18 and 19. You'd have space for one staffbot, which is a very bad idea - staff users are essential to mobility with Rescue and turn crunching.

I'm not saying to drop your kids for staffbots if you don't want to, but the onus is on you to make sure you have the necessary staff support to get by. Running high mobility sets will help reduce the burden on your Rescue staff users - Dark Flier over Sage on Lucina, for example; or Paladin on Stahl!Severa; Bow Knight on Gaius!Noire; Wyvern Lord on Donnel!Kjelle. +Mov classes on units in the backline, maybe the likes of Griffon Rider on Fred!Inigo. Valkyrie Morgan-F paired with Dark Knight Laurent, maybe, instead of Dark Flier x Sage or Sage x Sage (or Dark Flier x Dark Knight, for lack of staves).

You also want to make sure you have staff users scattered into your combat units. Sage Avatar-M, for example, instead of Dark Knight for mobility or Grandmaster for Speed. I'm not certain if it's a good idea to go all the way with that idea (War Monk Kellam!Inigo).

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I'm gonna say that Apo goes smoother with staffbots and Olivia instead of using all the characters, so realistically you won't be using all the children anyway. Your Apo team would look like:

Chrom/Sumia
Avatar/Lucina
Cynthia/Brady
Morgan/Laurent

and then you fill 2 more pairs with whatever you need. It'd be good to have a Sniper so probably take Noire/Gerome and since you're heavily tilted towards magic as it is consider taking a physical galegirl like Severa or Kjelle depending on what you think you need.

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The following is my F!Robin Apo team:

Chrom/Avatar (+SPD -DEF or +SPD -LCK need help choosing the best one here)

Lissa/Lon'qu

Sully/Donnel

Maribelle/Ricken (?)

Sumia/Henry

Morgan/Cynthia

Owain/Kjelle

Lucina/Brady

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Just some thoughts on what you said. I gave fred to inigo because i was planning on making him a paladin no matter who his father was and i hear fred isnt the greatest dad, but inigo is so solid already that i figured would save me more valuable dads later on. Is henry nah really the best fit for my team? I was making gerome into a hex anathema hard support berserker, what role does he serve at gregor gerome or vaike gerome? And if i really need to have staff bots should i just use a parent? Im guessing lonqu x mirabelle?

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On 28/10/2018 at 1:48 PM, izanagi61 said:

Just some thoughts on what you said. I gave fred to inigo because i was planning on making him a paladin no matter who his father was and i hear fred isnt the greatest dad, but inigo is so solid already that i figured would save me more valuable dads later on. Is henry nah really the best fit for my team? I was making gerome into a hex anathema hard support berserker, what role does he serve at gregor gerome or vaike gerome? And if i really need to have staff bots should i just use a parent? Im guessing lonqu x mirabelle?

It's not that Inigo is really solid, it's more that Inigo variance is very low - so Stahl!Inigo and Chrom!Inigo (his best dads), while they do perform better, don't improve Fred!Inigo by a large amount. Compared to how massive an improvement Chrom is on Cynthia, for example, or Stahl on Yarne or Severa. Fred!Inigo is free, and he's more than good enough to give Apo minions the boot. While Chrom!Inigo and Stahl!Inigo usually won't be chasing Apo bosses either, so the improvement, while not insignificant, isn't that important.

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On 28/10/2018 at 7:46 PM, TheSilentChloey said:

The following is my F!Robin Apo team:

Chrom/Avatar (+SPD -DEF or +SPD -LCK need help choosing the best one here)

Lissa/Lon'qu

Sully/Donnel

Maribelle/Ricken (?)

Sumia/Henry

Morgan/Cynthia

Owain/Kjelle

Lucina/Brady

Okay so here's the set up,

Chrom @Great Lord: LB/Aether/AS+2/Aggressor/(Charm?) x Avatar (+SPD/-DEF) @Grandmaster: LB/Galeforce/Ignus/Swordfaire/Tomefaire

Lissa @Sage: LB/Tomefaire/Healtouch/Galeforce/AS+2  x Lon'qu @Assassin: LB/Swordfaire/Astra/AS+2/Agressor

Sully @Paladin: LB/Luna/Astra/Deliverer/AS+2 x Donnel @Hero: LB/Agressor/AS+2/Armsthrift/Sol (or I could just hack some skills on him but...not for the first clear of Apo if I get there)

Maribelle @ Valkyrie: LB/Tomefaire/AS+2/Galeforce/DSp+ x (Ricken @Dark Knight: LB/Agressor/Luna/Tomefaire/AS+2) or (Virion @Sniper: LB/Bowfaire/Aggressor/AS+2/Deliverer)

[email protected] Flier: LB/Tomefaire/Luna/Galeforce/AS+2 x Henry @Sorcerer: LB/Hex/Anathema/Agressor/AS+2

Morgan @Grand Master: LB/Galeforce/Ignus/Tomefaire/Agressor x Cynthia @Dark Flier: LB/Tomefaire/Luna/Galeforce/AS+2

Owain @ (Class undecided): LB/Galeforce/Swordfaire(?)/Astra/Agressor x Kjelle @Bride: LB/Galeforce/Lancefaire/Luna/AS+2

Lucina @Grand Master: LB/Aether/Ignus/Galeforce/Tomefaire x Brady @Sage: LB/Luna/DSp+/Agressor/Tomefaire.

 

So do these work?

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43 minutes ago, soly said:

Would you like my advice?

I would like to know if the team works or could be tweaked.

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On 02/11/2018 at 8:29 AM, TheSilentChloey said:

Chrom @Great Lord: LB/Aether/AS+2/Aggressor/(Charm?) x Avatar (+SPD/-DEF) @Grandmaster: LB/Galeforce/Ignus/Swordfaire/Tomefaire

Chrom behind Avatar-F is unlikely to ever lead. Either focus him as a hard support, or give him a reason to lead. Sniper with LB/Aether/Luna/DStr+/Aggressor is a good reason to lead. If not, the recommendation is Bow Knight hard support, something like LB/Bowfaire/Aggressor/DStr+/filler.

Avatar could go to dualproc with Astra + Ignis or Luna + Ignis. Drop your Swordfaire, it's largely worthless if you have Tomefaire.

Will your setup work... to be honest, probably yes it will, because you're looking at full DLC skills and forged Brave weapons; that breaks Apo fairly hard. It'll work, but it won't work as well as it could.

Lissa @Sage: LB/Tomefaire/Healtouch/Galeforce/AS+2  x Lon'qu @Assassin: LB/Swordfaire/Astra/AS+2/Agressor

Lissa has no stable proc to boost her damage; LQ's damage behind her as an Assassin is low; and he doesn't boost her Mag, either. So you might very well drop kills. If LQ leads you lose Galeforce. My advice? Go Wyvern Lord. You drop Swordfaire but do more damage anyway due to axes and higher Str cap; if you switch to LQ for second kill you get flier mobility at the start of the turn. He's fast enough to hit the lower speed tier as a Wyvern anyway (38 base + 3 mod + 22 LB Rally Spe Tonic + 3 pair up = 66 Spe, so he doubles everything he cares to double anyway). Lissa's slow; with Limit + Rally + All Stats +2 + Speed Tonic she hits... 69 speed, you double Thronie. You hit 75 with a +Spe support, I guess, but Lissa has no stable proc to fight with so for the most part I think the added Str is better for mookslaying.

Will this pair work... again forged brave weapons + DLC skills, and Lissa still has Galeforce, you break thresholds enough to pull it off.

Sully @Paladin: LB/Luna/Astra/Deliverer/AS+2 x Donnel @Hero: LB/Agressor/AS+2/Armsthrift/Sol (or I could just hack some skills on him but...not for the first clear of Apo if I get there)

Donnel's two class lines plus villager plus Hero overlap means he's just worthless in Apotheosis, honestly. He has no stable proc, he has no weaponfaires, so he just breaks down the moment you drop his DLC skills, his mods even suck. At least go Warrior so he has something resembling damage; Sully's speed doesn't matter since she's not hunting anything but mooks anyway. Sully at least is halfway pretending to be redeemable with dualprocs to lead with - she drops Galeforce, but you should saddle her with Swordfaire.

Can this work? Yeah, maybe, but at this point you're brute forcing through the map with inflated stats and brave weapons, and that's going to be an issue for this pair in particular because once brute force stops working then so will these two. It's also a little inefficient to be hitting one enemy mook with one pair like this; puts more strain on your other units who now have to polish off the rest of the enemy wave themselves (usually 4 more enemies) and on your rescue bots.

Maribelle @ Valkyrie: LB/Tomefaire/AS+2/Galeforce/DSp+ x (Ricken @Dark Knight: LB/Agressor/Luna/Tomefaire/AS+2) or (Virion @Sniper: LB/Bowfaire/Aggressor/AS+2/Deliverer)

Do Virion so that Brady gets to be fast. Fast Sage Brady x +Spe support is really nice. You miss out on 75 Spe if Lucina goes Grandmaster, so if you care at all about that, and you should because this is your highest functioning pair and you really really want them at 75 Spe to hunt Nightmare Sniper and Anna, then go Dark Flier.

Since you appear to be insistent on carrying your parent units into Apo (not recommended, by the way) at least go Sniper x Sage. That way they're actually contributing, and quite significantly at that, 3 range longbow is disgustingly good especially backed by Sage dual strikes. I guess Sniper x Valkyrie works if you need Virion to be fast. With his +2 mod he's just not really that fast though so Sage is probably broadly better.

[email protected] Flier: LB/Tomefaire/Luna/Galeforce/AS+2 x Henry @Sorcerer: LB/Hex/Anathema/Agressor/AS+2

I was about to say, stay out of Sorcerer, but Henry's other options legitimately sorta suck too. Sumia is perfect, though. Go Dark Knight Henry for +Mov if you want, that works decently. If you just want maximum magical damage stick to Sorc. You can actually consider Berserker here, but I don't think it's really worth it.

Morgan @Grand Master: LB/Galeforce/Ignus/Tomefaire/Agressor x Cynthia @Dark Flier: LB/Tomefaire/Luna/Galeforce/AS+2

Both units in this pair hit 75 Spe, which is a total waste of speed since you'll never see two enemies with 70 Spe close enough for two members of a Galepair to take them out. You can switch Morgan or Cynthia to Sage instead; the Sage will operate at 75 Spe and give you additional mobility via Rescue.

If not, they're still a fantastic pair, go for it.

Owain @ (Class undecided): LB/Galeforce/Swordfaire(?)/Astra/Agressor x Kjelle @Bride: LB/Galeforce/Lancefaire/Luna/AS+2

I get that you love Lon'qu!Owain, I really do, it's a favourite pairing of a lot of people, but he just doesn't function at a high level, especially not if you're pushing him into a physical class. Owain's Str mod suffers from Lissa's parentage and LQ doesn't fix that; nor does he complete the Galeforce/Weaponfaire/Stable Proc trinity with a stable proc. So whenever he goes physical, it just leaves a dirty taste in my mouth: "This unit is worse than an enemy mook." You should instead probably aim for a magic class (Sage). If not, I would definitely at least settle in a high-Str class like Warrior or Wyvern Lord.

Kjelle probably wants to dualproc with Astra. Bride is fine if Owain is a Sage; if not, aim for a physical pair-up like Paladin.

Lucina @Grand Master: LB/Aether/Ignus/Galeforce/Tomefaire x Brady @Sage: LB/Luna/DSp+/Agressor/Tomefaire.

You've forgotten to give Brady his Galeforce. Do that. Dual Support+ kinda sucks anyway, it's a filler skill and mostly notable for giving +Crit to critspam Laurent and +Avo to Lancebreakers, both from the back. And give Lucina her Dual Strike+, it's legitimately amazing.

Aside from that, Virion!Brady actually fails to make 75 Spe here so Dark Flier is preferred on Lucina, I would say. If you really want to stick to Grandmaster, I guess it's OK, it just means Cynthia and Morgan have to pick up the slack a bit.

So the thing about first-gen characters is that for the most part they just don't have the classes and skills to play in Apo. Units trying to lead tend to be met with a dearth of stable proc + faire + Galeforce, which is basically the defining setup for a kid unit lead - there's a reason Galeforce Dad is meta on Kjelle to the exclusion of nearly everything else; there's a reason no one does Sully!Lucina for Apo even discounting the effect of Chrom on Kjelle, Owain and Inigo aim for Luna or Vengeance dads, and no one does Galeforce Nah. That's the proc/faire/Galeforce trinity talking, it's the staple of leading units.

It's not undoable to go into apo and even with with pure firstgens, but it's definitely harder, and if kids are on the table you shouldn't be considering their parents for the most part. Cordelia and Sumia are fine; in front of Avatar-M you can sorta pull off Lissa and Maribelle. But for the most part, it's not worth it.

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I'd usually say drop pairs for more staffbots. Remove Lissa and Sully's pairs and I'd say you're fine...Maribelle is missing a faire but she's the best choice to leave in there IMO

The first gen pairs are gonna feel like dead weight because you'll be doing everything with the gen 2 pairs that are more powerful. The power gap is going to be quite noticeable and you'll feel like there isn't much point to using the first gen pairs.

You can still deploy like lissa and whoever else as staffbots, but don't say they're there for combat. You've currently got space for 2 staffbots and olivia and a rallybot and that's it, not much flexibility for teleporting around the map. 

Edit: I'll also throw in that Henry has the perfect skillset to be a Berserker support. The difference between Henry and say Henry!Gerome is maybe 1 damage per swing. He doesn't help Darkflier!Sumia do more magic damage but he'll hit hard enough on mooks that it won't matter.

Edited by Bane
more thoughts on henry

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Henry!Gerome can do 2-3 more damage (he has Cherche's +3 mod, the kids' +1, and the skill Str+2 for up to +6 Atk, which is halved by Dragonskin) which is not insignificant if he's doing 8-15 per swing, or over the effect of 8 swings. Henry himself won't be bad at it, of course. But... you get it.

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Due to some suggestions here's where the team are at

F!Robin @ Sage (LB/Tomefaire/Galeforce/Ignus/AS+2) x Chrom @Sniper (LB/DS+/Aether/Aggressor/RK)

Lissa @Sage (LB/Tomefaire/Galeforce/Healtouch/Rally Mag) x Ricken @Sage (LB/Tomefaire/Luna/AS+2/Aggressor)

Maribelle @Valkyrie (LB/Tomefaire/Galeforce/AS+2/Rally Mag) x Virion @Sniper (LB/Bowfaire/Agressor/AS+2/Deliverer)

Sumia x Henry  unchanged

Morgan x Cynthia unchaged

Robin!Lucina @ Dark Flier (LB/Tomefaire/Aether/Ignus/Galeforce) x Virion!Brady @ Sage (LB/Tomefaire/Galeforce/Luna/Agressor)

Gaius!Noire @Sniper (LB/Galeforce/Luna/Astra/Bowfaire) x Stahl!Inigo @Sniper (LB/Galeforce/Luna/Agressor/Bowfaire)

Now I need to know which characters will make good rally bots/rescue bots.  Olivia is obviously not going to see combat but dancer utility.

 

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Why not Dicken!Owain or Stahl!Inigo with Gaius!Noire instead of Dicken/Lissa and Virion/Maribelle?

 

Chrom can get Bowfaire. Replace RK for Bowfaire.

 

Looks like there are 14 characters that'll fight? Not enough utility...

Edited by ChickenWings

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I forgot that you do full damage on dual strikes in Awakening. Wow that was busted.

2 hours ago, TheSilentChloey said:

Due to some suggestions here's where the team are at

F!Robin @ Sage (LB/Tomefaire/Galeforce/Ignus/AS+2) x Chrom @Sniper (LB/DS+/Aether/Aggressor/RK)

Lissa @Sage (LB/Tomefaire/Galeforce/Healtouch/Rally Mag) x Ricken @Sage (LB/Tomefaire/Luna/AS+2/Aggressor)

Maribelle @Valkyrie (LB/Tomefaire/Galeforce/AS+2/Rally Mag) x Virion @Sniper (LB/Bowfaire/Agressor/AS+2/Deliverer)

Sumia x Henry  unchanged

Morgan x Cynthia unchaged

Robin!Lucina @ Dark Flier (LB/Tomefaire/Aether/Ignus/Galeforce) x Virion!Brady @ Sage (LB/Tomefaire/Galeforce/Luna/Agressor)

Gaius!Noire @Sniper (LB/Galeforce/Luna/Astra/Bowfaire) x Stahl!Inigo @Sniper (LB/Galeforce/Luna/Agressor/Bowfaire)

Now I need to know which characters will make good rally bots/rescue bots.  Olivia is obviously not going to see combat but dancer utility.

 

I recommend Luna over Rightful King since it results in higher average damage.

Drop Rally Magic from Lissa and replace it with All Stats +2, a single rally is not enough to warrant using it over staves or attacking. I would also suggest swapping out Luna on Ricken for something else because he does more damage in the back with aggressor but if you plan to end on him then feel free to do what you want.

Same with Maribelle, Rally Magic for anything else (even mag+2). I guess you're planning to put Virion up front to end a turn just like Ricken so if that's the case then you're fine.

You can also swap Brady to Dark Knight if you want more mobility and already have somebody else hitting 75 speed, otherwise this pair is good.

Noire/Inigo is good. I think Assassin Inigo puts Noire up to 75 speed which is great with a longbow for dealing with invincisorc, nightmare sniper, and Anna.

we're down to 7 combat pairs with 2 of them having staffbot flexibility if need be so that's fine. You'll have probably 2 rallybots (2 lets you split your forces more while one brings in yet another staffbot, I prefer 2 but the choice is up to you), Olivia, and 3 more staffbots. 

Another thing you could consider is deploying Virion, Ricken, Maribelle and Lissa as your staffbots and fielding another child combat pair. They won't be the best staffbots due to skill and class access, but they'll work fine if you want to bring them and make them useful.

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9 hours ago, ChickenWings said:

Why not Dicken!Owain or Stahl!Inigo with Gaius!Noire instead of Dicken/Lissa and Virion/Maribelle?

 

Chrom can get Bowfaire. Replace RK for Bowfaire.

 

Looks like there are 14 characters that'll fight? Not enough utility...

I was assuming that Ricken, Lissa, and Maribelle would be staffbots/combat/rallybots kinda leaning more towards rally/staff bots.

 

8 hours ago, Bane said:

I forgot that you do full damage on dual strikes in Awakening. Wow that was busted.

I recommend Luna over Rightful King since it results in higher average damage.

Drop Rally Magic from Lissa and replace it with All Stats +2, a single rally is not enough to warrant using it over staves or attacking. I would also suggest swapping out Luna on Ricken for something else because he does more damage in the back with aggressor but if you plan to end on him then feel free to do what you want.

Same with Maribelle, Rally Magic for anything else (even mag+2). I guess you're planning to put Virion up front to end a turn just like Ricken so if that's the case then you're fine.

You can also swap Brady to Dark Knight if you want more mobility and already have somebody else hitting 75 speed, otherwise this pair is good.

Noire/Inigo is good. I think Assassin Inigo puts Noire up to 75 speed which is great with a longbow for dealing with invincisorc, nightmare sniper, and Anna.

we're down to 7 combat pairs with 2 of them having staffbot flexibility if need be so that's fine. You'll have probably 2 rallybots (2 lets you split your forces more while one brings in yet another staffbot, I prefer 2 but the choice is up to you), Olivia, and 3 more staffbots. 

Another thing you could consider is deploying Virion, Ricken, Maribelle and Lissa as your staffbots and fielding another child combat pair. They won't be the best staffbots due to skill and class access, but they'll work fine if you want to bring them and make them useful.

I was thinking that Virion and Ricken would be like that (since I wanted to make them somewhat useful for either combat or rally I think?)

So then which characters would make good rallybots and staff bots (dlc characters or streetpass?)

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i decided not to use stahl for nah and trade for henry instead so she can be magical, that way it balanced my pairs and i have a magic girl for owain. however what do i do with stahl now? i could give him to inigo but the difference seems to be very minor outside of giving him sniper and i have one or two of those already and i dont think i need a third. well actually kjelle might appreciate it for wyvern lord but it doesn't seem like a huge upgrade. theres still cherche, tharja, miriel, nowi, and olivia left unmarried. who should i give him to?

Edited by izanagi61

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Inigo for sure. He's the only kid left who actually gains a lot of benefit from Stahl's amazing parentage. Gerome would rather get Berserker from Vaike or Gregor; Noire wants Galeforce from Gaius and has Archer and Luna overlap; Stahl!Nah is a fairly versatile physical unit but if she's going to Owain then Henry is better on her; Laurent can take Stahl and succeed similarly to Gregor!Laurent, but his actual benefit from Stahl is quite low - he almost doesn't care who his dad is, Inigo does.

Inigo picks up Bowfaire from Stahl, which is actually actively incredible on him. Bowfaire is by far the best physical weaponfaire, and Inigo has the Warrior and Assassin classes to use it with, as well as Stahl's Sniper and his own pretty solid mods. You may not need a third sniper, but Inigo will excel as a Warrior or Assassin with Bowfaire - and if you need him melee, he still has his native Axefaire and Swordfaire with Hero and Warrior. Stahl!Inigo is about the only Inigo I would even consider giving a hard support to (the other one is Chrom!Inigo).

Edited by soly

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warrior's don't get axefaire, berserkers do. but i might use him as hard support sniper for wyver lord kjelle. back to staffbots, should i use parents for that so i can leave the fighting to the kids?

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Hey all, been lurking for a few years and finally decided to make an account.  I'm going through Awakening again and could use some advice on marriages and team-building.  This'll be for Apotheosis, as I've never done it before.  From what I've read, my choices are mostly standard, but I'm not sure about child pairs and final classes.

Male Avatar with +spd and -def

Kids I'm considering keeping: Sumia!Lucina (paired with Avatar), Ricken!Owain, Gregor!Laurent, Lon'qu!Brady, Fred!Inigo, Chrom!Cynthia, Stahl!Severa, Gaius!Noire, Sumia!Lucina!Morgan

Considering benching: Vaike!Nah, Henry!Gerome, Virion!Yarne, Donnel!Kjelle

I can't seem to find good pairs for the first list and I'm not sure if i should switch some kids around.  I think I have a lack of balance between physical and magical pairs.  I'm leaning towards possibly benching Inigo for Yarne, since Inigo seems to be the weak link (I think, not sure).

 

Thanks for any help.

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16 hours ago, izanagi61 said:

warrior's don't get axefaire, berserkers do. but i might use him as hard support sniper for wyver lord kjelle. back to staffbots, should i use parents for that so i can leave the fighting to the kids?

Inigo has Barbarian base, so he has native access to both Berserker (which drops him Axefaire) and Warrior (which I'm suggesting as a possible finisher).

Usually staffbots are spotpass units in Falcon Knight or Valkyrie (latter with Acrobat). You can use parents if you want, but aim for one of those two classes, probably favour Falcon since your Valkyries don't have Thief for Acrobat.

14 hours ago, DaydayMane said:

Kids I'm considering keeping: Sumia!Lucina (paired with Avatar), Ricken!Owain, Gregor!Laurent, Lon'qu!Brady, Fred!Inigo, Chrom!Cynthia, Stahl!Severa, Gaius!Noire, Sumia!Lucina!Morgan

Considering benching: Vaike!Nah, Henry!Gerome, Virion!Yarne, Donnel!Kjelle

Your child units are all good (save possibly Vaike!Nah; Nah wants to support a Galeboy, Vaike!Nah wants to support a physical Galeboy, and Fred!Inigo isn't worthy of a hard support also his support line with Nah is trash), so now it's just a matter of pairing them up.

For the most part, you can just pair physical units to physical units, and magical units to magical units, then call it a day. Units which can use either physical or magical sets (eg. Sumia!Lucina can run both physical Sniper and magical Dark Flier/Sage) like to be paired to similar units (Gregor!Laurent and Henry!Gerome can both Berserker and Sage) but don't consider this necessary.

If you want to get into a bit more detail, look for speed tiers. Use https://serenesforest.net/awakening/characters/maximum-stats/complete/ to get your units' base speed (for example, LQ!Brady has 46 Spe as a Sage). Add 10 for Limit Breaker, 10 for Rally Spe Heart Spectrum, and 2 for the Speed Tonic consumable item for a total of +22 on all units, putting Brady at 68 Spe. Then add the speed from his pair-up partner (see https://serenesforest.net/awakening/miscellaneous/pair-up/ for details). If you've done your math right, you'll see that Dark Fliers pass +8 Spe as pair-up partners, so Brady will reach 76 Spe if he has a Dark Flier in his pocket.

Benchmarks to aim for are 75 Spe (doubles all enemies), 69 Spe (doubles all enemies less wave 5 boss, wave 2 boss and his wave 5 boss rush clone), and 66 (not doubled by any enemy, doubles almost all enemies). If you're playing without DLC, aim for 60 Spe (doubles most enemies). It's more important for spellcasters (like LQ!Brady) and bow users (like Stahl!Severa and Gaius!Noire) to reach 75 and 69 Spe than it is for sword, lance, and axe users, who are generally content with settling down at 66 Spe.

As for final classes, Sage on spellcaster boys like LQ!Brady, Dark Flier on caster girls paired to galeforce caster boys (like Chrom!Cynthia whose boyfriend is LQ!Brady). Put Bowfaire on your better physical units (Stahl!Severa, Gaius!Noire) and rely on mooksweepers like Fred!Inigo and Donnel!Kjelle to bring the melee damage with axes/lances/swords. Good melee classes include Paladin and Hero, Wyvern Lord is considered good but I'm not a fan. Any physical class with Bows will prefer to use bows. Berserker or Sage on hard supports (units without Galeforce) depending on whether their boyfriend/girlfriend is physical/magical; Vaike!Nah can go General if she needs damage or Hero if her partner needs speed.

you usually want 4-6 combat pairs, so this is an example of something you could do with your pairings:

Chrom @ Sniper x Sumia @ Sage (your sniper)
Sumia!Lucina @ Sniper x Avatar (+Spe/-Def) @ Berserker (your other sniper)
Chrom!Cynthia @ Dark Flier x Lon'qu!Brady @ Sage (75 Spre Brady brings the pain)
Sumia!Lucina!Morgan @ Sage x @ Gregor!Laurent @ Sage (75 Spe Morgan with Aether and Sage support brings even more pain)
Gaius!Noire @ Bow Knight x Henry!Gerome @ Berserker (fast, powerful, versatile, mobile unit, swords and bows versatile targeting)
Donnel!Kjelle @ Paladin x Fred!Inigo @ Warrior (mooksweepers)

Then pair off other units as you see fit - give Yarne (physical hard support) to your remaining physical galegirl (Stahl!Severa) and Nah (axefaire Hero) to Owain (Sage). 

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Thanks for the advice soly!  I'm not locked into any pairs yet, would it be better to switch Vaike and Henry so that Nah could be magic support and Gerome stays physical?  I could also change out Inigo's dad, maybe?  Also, isn't Yarne a better support than Gerome?

Edited by DaydayMane
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3 hours ago, DaydayMane said:

Thanks for the advice soly!  I'm not locked into any pairs yet, would it be better to switch Vaike and Henry so that Nah could be magic support and Gerome stays physical?  I could also change out Inigo's dad, maybe?  Also, isn't Yarne a better support than Gerome?

Keep Henry on Gerome. Henry passes dark mage which gives Hex and Anathema access which pushes Berserker up into perfect hit range. It is worthwhile to trade 1 damage for +25 accuracy. Yarne is sometimes considered a better support than Gerome because he has better inheritance (needing either archer or dark mage to fix berserker's accuracy means he is far more flexible).

Also, you might want to swap out a galeboy for a hard support like Yarne and Gerome. Pick a bosskiller and put Yarne or Gerome behind them (say...Sniper!Gaius!Noire) to push the damage further. Focus power on a couple pairs to fight bosses and fill in the rest of your pairs to sweep mooks.

You can swap Libra for Frederick as Inigo's father and pick up vengeance which is ok (it's a proc so it's fine) but you've got to balance with your physical/magical girls whether that's ok or not. You could go Kellam which will give you Luna and...Tomefaire...I'd rather keep Frederick tbh. 

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Thanks Bane, looks like I've got things 99% figured out.  Final question, what skills besides LB, Bowfaire, and Galeforce should non-royal bow-users aim for?  Vengeance/Luna + 2nd proc?  All+2?

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